Tennis Channel's "100 Greatest of All Time"

T

Tony48

Legend
The 5-night special (which started yesterday, IIRC) is counting down the 100 greatest tennis players...a list which, interestingly enough, includes both men and women.

No one's going to agree with the list (or even if they should be compared at all, something Serena mentioned during the special), but....it's here anyway! :)

100 Greatest of All Time (Male & Female)

1. Roger Federer, M, SUI
2. Rod Laver, M, AUS
3. Steffi Graf, F, GER
4. Martina Navratilova, F, USA/CZE
5. Pete Sampras, M, USA
6. Rafael Nadal, M, ESP
7. Bjorn Borg, M, SWE
8. Margaret Court, F, AUS
9. Chris Evert, F, USA
10. Billie Jean King, F, USA
11. Don Budge, M, USA
12. Andre Agassi, M, USA
13. John McEnroe, M, USA
14. Serena Williams, F, USA
15. Jimmy Connors, M, USA
16. Bill Tilden, M, USA
17. Roy Emerson, M, AUS
18. Ivan Lendl, M, CZE
19. Monica Seles, F, USA
20. Ken Rosewall, M, AUS
21. Boris Becker, M, GER
22. Venus Williams, F, USA
23. Fred Perry, M, GBR
24. Suzanne Lenglen, F, FRA
25. Stefan Edberg, M, SWE
26. Justine Henin, F, BEL
27. Maureen Connolly Brinker, F, USA
28. Arthur Ashe, M, USA
29. Helen Wills Moody Roark, F, USA
30. Martina Hingis, F, SUI
31. John Newcombe, M, AUS
32. Lew Hoad, M, AUS
33. Mats Wilander, M, SWE
34. Jack Kramer, M, USA
35. Pancho Gonzalez, M, USA
36. Rene Lacoste, M, FRA
37. Evonne Goolagong Cawley, F, AUS
38. Maria Bueno, F, BRA
39. Althea Gibson, F, USA
40. Novak Djokovic, M, SRB
41. Guillermo Vilas, M, ARG
42. Jim Courier, M, USA
43. Lindsay Davenport, F, USA
44. Arantxa Sanchez Vicario, F, ESP
45. Kim Clijsters, F, BEL
46. Henri Cochet, M, FRA
47. Jean Borotra, M, FRA
48. Frank Sedgman, M, AUS
49. Ilie Nastase, M, ROM
50. Tony Trabert, M, USA
51. Doris Hart, F, USA
52. Jack Crawford, M, AUS
53. Tracy Austin, F, USA
54. Manuel Santana, M, ESP
55. Gustavo Kuerten, M, BRA
56. Stan Smith, M, USA
57. Jennifer Capriati, F, USA
58. Alice Marble, F, USA
59. Margaret Osbourne Dupont, F, USA
60. Virginia Wade, F, GBR
61. Neale Fraser, M, USA
62. Hana Mandlikova, F, CZE
63. Lleyton Hewitt, M, AUS
64. Ellsworth Vines, M, USA
65. Pancho Segura, M, ECU
66. Bobby Riggs, M, USA
67. Fred Stolle, M, AUS
68. Helen Hull Jacobs, F, USA
69. Louise Brough, F, USA
70. Patrick Rafter, M, AUS
71. Maria Sharapova, F, RUS
72. Gottfried Von Cramm, M, GER
73. Jaroslav Drobny, M, CZE
74. Tony Roche, M, AUS
75. Pauline Betz Addie, F, USA
76. William Renshaw, M, GBR
77. Molla Mallory, F, USA
78. Ashley Cooper, M, AUS
79. Gabriela Sabatini, F, ARG
80. Marat Safin, M, RUS
81. Vic Seixas, M, USA
82. Yevgeny Kafelnikov, M, RUS
83. Jan Kodes, M, CZE
84. Norman Brookes, M, AUS
85. Yannick Noah, M, FRA
86. Tony Wilding, M, NZL
87. Mary Pierce, F, FRA
88. Amelie Mauresmo, F, FRA
89. Dorothea Lambert Chambers, F, GBR
90. Bill Johnston, M, USA
91. Shirley Fry Irvin, F, USA
92. Svetlana Kuznetsova, F, RUS
93. Nicola Pietrangeli, M, ITA
94. Andy Roddick, M, USA
95. Thomas Muster, M, AUT
96. Manuel Orantes, M, ESP
97. Pat Cash, M, AUS
98. Henry Bunny Austin, M, GBR
99. Ann Haydon Jones, F, GBR
100. Michael Chang, M, USA
 
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It is an interesting program.

They are not rating them, even though you can expect Rodge will be at #1. They are simply talking about 100 great players in that order, not that rating. So there is nothing really to agree with or disagree.

It's natural that since Players such as Rodge and Rafa are more popular now they keep the best for the last.
 
OddJack said:
It is an interesting program.

They are not rating them, even though you can expect Rodge will be at #1. They are simply talking about 100 great players in that order, not that rating. So there is nothing really to agree with or disagree.

It's natural that since Players such as Rodge and Rafa are more popular now they keep the best for the last.
Click to expand...
Keeping in mind that it's both a male/female poll, Roger could be #2 or #3, behind Navratilova or Graff.
 
100 Michael Chang
99 Ann Haydon-Jones*
98 Henry Austin
97 Pat Cash
96 Manuel Orantes
95 Thomas Muster
94 Andy Roddick
93 Nicola Pietrangeli
92 Svetlana Kuznetsova*
91 Shirley Fry-Irvin*
90 Bill Johnston
89 Dorothea Lambert Chambers*
88 Amelie Mauresmo*
87 Mary Piece*
86 Tony Wilding
85 Yannick Noah
84 Norman Brookes
83 Jan Kodes
82 Yevgeny Kafelnikov
81 Vic Seixas
80 Marat Safin
79 Gabriela Sabatini*
78 Ashly Cooper*
77 Molla Mallory*
76 William Renshaw
75 Pauline Betz Addie*
74 Tony Roche
73 Jaroslave Drobny
72 Gottfried Von Cramm
71 Maria Sharapova*
70 Patrick Rafter
69 Louise Brough Clapp*
68 Helen Hull Jacobs*
67 Fred Stolle
66 Bobby Riggs
65 Pancho Segura
64 Ellsworth Vines
63 Lleyton Hewitt
62 Hana Mandlikova*
61 Neale Fraser
60 Virginia Wade*
59 Margaret Osborne duPont*
58 Alice Marble*
57 Jennifer Capriati*
56 Stan Smith
55 Guga Kuerten
54 Manuel Santana
53 Tracy Austin*
52 Jack Crawford
51 Doris Hart*
50 Tony Trabert
49 Ilie Nastase
48 Frank Sedgman
47 Jean Borotha
46 Henri Cochet
45 Kim Clijsters*
44 Arantxa Sanchez-Vicario*
43 Lindsay Davenport*
42 Jim Courier
41 Guillermo Vilas

The asterisk represent female player. After we get the list of all 100 players, we can separate the list between men and the women. No sense in comparing two separate tour.

And please, if you feel your favorite player is placed too low, feel to disagree but don't bash the tennis channel for coming up with this list.
 
TMF said:
100 Michael Chang
99 Ann Haydon-Jones*
98 Henry Austin
97 Pat Cash
96 Manuel Orantes
95 Thomas Muster
94 Andy Roddick
93 Nicola Pietrangeli
92 Svetlana Kuznetsova*
91 Shirley Fry-Irvin*
90 Bill Johnston
89 Dorothea Lambert Chambers*
88 Amelie Mauresmo*
87 Mary Piece*
86 Tony Wilding
85 Yannick Noah
84 Norman Brookes
83 Jan Kodes
82 Yevgeny Kafelnikov
81 Vic Seixas
80 Marat Safin
79 Gabriela Sabatini*
78 Ashly Cooper*
77 Molla Mallory*
76 William Renshaw
75 Pauline Betz Addie*
74 Tony Roche
73 Jaroslave Drobny
72 Gottfried Von Cramm
71 Maria Sharapova*
70 Patrick Rafter
69 Louise Brough Clapp*
68 Helen Hull Jacobs*
67 Fred Stolle
66 Bobby Riggs
65 Pancho Segura
64 Ellsworth Vines
63 Lleyton Hewitt
62 Hana Mandlikova*
61 Neale Fraser
60 Virginia Wade*
59 Margaret Osborne duPont*
58 Alice Marble*
57 Jennifer Capriati*
56 Stan Smith
55 Guga Kuerten
54 Manuel Santana
53 Tracy Austin*
52 Jack Crawford
51 Doris Hart*
50 Tony Trabert
49 Ilie Nastase
48 Frank Sedgman
47 Jean Borotha
46 Henri Cochet
45 Kim Clijsters*
44 Arantxa Sanchez-Vicario*
43 Lindsay Davenport*
42 Jim Courier
41 Guillermo Vilas

The asterisk represent female player. After we get the list of all 100 players, we can separate the list between men and the women. No sense in comparing two separate tour.

And please, if you feel your favorite player is placed too low, feel to disagree but don't bash the tennis channel for coming up with this list.
Click to expand...

I'm bashing the tennis channel right now for combining men and women. What a stunningly stupid idea! What a hot steamy pile of horse puckey!
 
Limpinhitter said:
I'm bashing the tennis channel right now for combining men and women. What a stunningly stupid idea! What a hot steamy pile of horse puckey!
Click to expand...

I can see it now...you are going to be really upset/bitter if your Laver is ranked too low.
 
I'm not sure what's worse, combining the mens and womens top 100, or separating this topic into two threads.
 
I don't get it. Tony Roche is above Marat Safin. Are they saying that Tony Roche at any point in his career could beat Marat Safin? Tennis was like way slower back then and at a much lower standard. Someone explain.
 
Wilding at 86!!! Can't be true

Tony Wilding was the most dominant clay court player of all time. Unbeaten for 4 years from mid-1910 to mid-1914! He won the most clay court titles of any player in history! On his CV you can throw in 4 Wimbledon Championships too!

What criteria are they using?
 
Speed

gold soundz said:
I don't get it. Tony Roche is above Marat Safin. Are they saying that Tony Roche at any point in his career could beat Marat Safin? Tennis was like way slower back then and at a much lower standard. Someone explain.
Click to expand...

Tennis is much slower now. Courts that is.
 
timnz said:
What criteria are they using?
Click to expand...

I don't think they are basing on who's the best player but rather best performers.

From Bill Tilden and Suzanne Lenglen, to Billie Jean King and Rod Laver, to Serena Williams and Roger Federer: 100 Greatest of all Time will encompass tennis’ best performers throughout the ages, ranking both men and women on the same top 100 list. The series will include archival footage, interviews and still images from bygone eras as it determines the game’s most remarkable competitors. As the series winds its way toward revealing the No. 1 player, it will factor changes that have occurred in the game throughout the years, among them the advent of an Open Era that allows professional superstars to compete in major tournaments and exponential improvements in fitness and equipment along the way.
Click to expand...
Tennis Channel to Count Down 100 Greatest Players
 
Here is how the players are being evaluated...



PLAYER CRITERIA

* Number of Major Titles won
* Overall performance at Grand Slam Events
* Player Ranking
* Performance at ATP/WTA events
* Performance at Davis & Fed Cup events
* Records held or broken
* Intangibles(contribuition to tennis)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VeBui1DoQ-4
 
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gold soundz said:
I don't get it. Tony Roche is above Marat Safin. Are they saying that Tony Roche at any point in his career could beat Marat Safin? Tennis was like way slower back then and at a much lower standard. Someone explain.
Click to expand...

This isn't a list of who could or should have beaten who. It's one way of rating all tennis players, based on performance.
 
since they said they wont be going by numbers alone but also trying to factor in the kind of opposition someone had, as well as subjective influences its gonna be interesting to see how this turns out. of course most people wont agree with the final list. im pretty sure i wont agree lol

but as they say this isnt about people agreeing. theyre actually making this for people to disagree so they have something to argue about at the bar lmao ;D
 
DMan said:
This isn't a list of who could or should have beaten who. It's one way of rating all tennis players, based on performance.
Click to expand...

I still don't get it. If you put prime Tony Roche against Safin it's a no brainer as to who would win 99% of the time, so how is Tony Roche better? Any current pro player would beat him. The game of tennis is at a much, much higher standard currently and it's the actual players that make it that way. So therefore, the players now are better than the players back then.
 
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To mix men and women, is absurd. Would like to know, who was in that panel? Wilding, Riggs and Vines and von Cramm were rated by Kramer and others as among the top ten all time, now they rank here among Nr. 70 and 80. That Riggs is so low, no wonder, if BJK had her hands in the game. But Vines and Wilding? In a big poll among 36 experts by Inside Tennis in 1986, Vines was stilll ranked among top ten.
 
TMF said:
86 Tony Wilding
85 Yannick Noah
Click to expand...
Tony Wilding... winner of 4 consecutive Wimbledons* is behind someone with one slam and a career highlighted more by clowning around than achievement.


*As well as 2 Australian Open singles titles, and 4 Wimbledon doubles titles, 2 world hardcourt championships and 4 Davis Cup titles....

Mmmm OK.:roll:
 
Noah over Stich?

A joke really.Noah got 2 semifinals in Slam.Stich reached last 4 in all of them.He won the masters and was runner up in the US and French.

They pointed out that Noah sold 5 million copies as a singer.
 
gold soundz said:
I still don't get it. If you put prime Tony Roche against Safin it's a no brainer as to who would win 99% of the time, so how is Tony Roche better? Any current pro player would beat him. The game of tennis is at a much, much higher standard currently and it's the actual players that make it that way. So therefore, the players now are better than the players back then.
Click to expand...

Respectfully, I don't think you get it. It is not a direct comparision between players of today and players from past eras. Obviously, today's players have tremendous advantages with the new technologies that make comparing eras very difficult. However, in a fantasy world, I would love to see players like Nadal with wooden racquets and no poly having to play against players such as Pancho Gonzalez, Jack Kramer or Rod Laver. Nadal is great, but I think I would put my money on these old guys.
 
What's funny is that if you watched the show, the commentators would often say that it's hard to compare eras because of technology, fitness, etc. Yet people here cannot comprehend it an assume that players of all eras had access to the same things, and played on exactly the same courts.

Personaly I'd love to take a time machine, and take Borg, RIGHT as he got interested in tennis, and bring em back to the same time frame as this current era. He'll have all the same access to what all the current current pros as they were growing up, and see how well he does. Conversely I'd love to ship a young nadal back to the 30's and have him train with the tennis knowledge back then, and see how'd he do. The point is, it's all hypothetical.
 
94 andy Roddick
63 Lleyton Hewitt



WHAT is this!?!?!?!?!?!? Roddick did much more than Hewwitt. What are they smoking?
 
Roddick got 3 Wimbedon finals. Qualified for WTF 8 (or 9) consecutive years. Has won a DC, and gotten to 2 USO finals. Plus umber 1 ranking.
 
Tammo said:
Roddick got 3 Wimbedon finals. Qualified for WTF 8 (or 9) consecutive years. Has won a DC, and gotten to 2 USO finals. Plus umber 1 ranking.
Click to expand...
Hewitt spent more time in the #1 spot.
Won 2 GS. Including Wimbledon.
Won USO in doubles.
Won the DC twice.
WON the Masters twice.
Finished year-end #1 two years in a row.
 
gold soundz said:
I still don't get it. If you put prime Tony Roche against Safin it's a no brainer as to who would win 99% of the time, so how is Tony Roche better? Any current pro player would beat him. The game of tennis is at a much, much higher standard currently and it's the actual players that make it that way. So therefore, the players now are better than the players back then.
Click to expand...



Its very obvious you dont get it. You probably think every active player in every sport would kill the players of the past also so they shouldnt include anyone who played more than 30 years ago right?
 
juan guzman said:
Noah over Stich?

A joke really.Noah got 2 semifinals in Slam.Stich reached last 4 in all of them.He won the masters and was runner up in the US and French.

They pointed out that Noah sold 5 million copies as a singer.
Click to expand...



Noah was the most over rated of any of the ones on the list in my opinion. Doesnt even belong on it whatsoever.
 
Tammo said:
94 andy Roddick
63 Lleyton Hewitt



WHAT is this!?!?!?!?!?!? Roddick did much more than Hewwitt. What are they smoking?
Click to expand...

No he didn't do much more than hewitt.
The problem is Hewitt was playing great tennis at a younger age during the early 2000 and it was during pre-Federer. He was the best player during that period when Roddick wasn't even close to be the 2nd best player. Roddick ranking was below 100 and managed to break the top 10 in 2002. However he managed to sneak in a slam(USO) before Fed became The Mighty Federer. I think these two are closer than where they ranked and it was unfortunate that Roddick didn't play great tennis during the pre-Federer but Hewitt did. So basing on what Andres listed Hewitt's numbers, he's a greater player.
 
Jim Courier brought up an interesting point.

If looking at data alone the women have more dominate greats than men and several of them easily eclipse the most accomplished men of all time.

Navratalova, Graf, Court all are above any man.
 
serena better be top ten-

1. navratilova
2. fed
3.graf
4. borg
5. court
6. sampras
7. serena
8. evert
9. nadal
10. agassi or connors
 
volleygirl said:
Its very obvious you dont get it. You probably think every active player in every sport would kill the players of the past also so they shouldnt include anyone who played more than 30 years ago right?
Click to expand...

Well, correct me if I'm wrong, but they would wouldn't they? The game is much faster, more spin and the players are so much more athletic.
 
I don't think Hingis is the sharpest tool in the shed. Her interviews on this show makes her seem pretty thick.
 
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Athletic improvement

gold soundz said:
Well, correct me if I'm wrong, but they would wouldn't they? The game is much faster, more spin and the players are so much more athletic.
Click to expand...

I sorry to disagree.

I believe there is a myth that everything gets better athletic wise. Players today play a lot less tennis than those in the 1960's. Most of the matches played then were 5 sets at most tournaments. Courts are very much slower now that in that time. So players can chase down balls. That is why rallys are so much longer. Players didn't sit down on changeovers.

But even if you are right about the fitness of today's players. The progression in speed has slowed to about nothing. The mile record hasn't been improved on since 1999. The 100 metres is only a fraction of a second faster than it was 30 years ago. Around 1970 the Marathon record was 2hrs 8 minutes, today its 2 hrs 3 minutes. That is an improvement of only 4% in over 40 years! Hence, the data has shown that athletic improvement has slowed to a snails pace. So the evidence of athletic improvement just isn't there.
 
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