Tennis growing, competition declining?

Moveforwardalways

Hall of Fame
In most areas of the USA, private tennis clubs are about the same price as a CrossFit gym. I’m sure it is more expensive in Southern California or the northeastern megalopolis though.
 

Roforot

Hall of Fame
hey, my friend captains a womens team. Much worse, much crazier… Ive seen the texts and it is like they have all the cutthroat tennis issues of wanting to win/destroy your enemy. But theres also stuff like who is on line 1, and who can play w who, and a lot of stuff about matching colors…. of course the flip side is they all bring snacks, drinks, pies for after tennis.
 

Jack the Hack

Hall of Fame
I think plenty of people would love to play leagues, but no one wants to captain. Being a captain is a major PIA, having to deal with getting all the guys, scheduling matches, dealing with weather, dealing with egos on the team, etc. I already work full-time, why would I want to tack on another part-time job on top of it? I'd rather hit and play social matches at my leisure.

I agree with you that it's a total pain to be a USTA League captain. I did it for many years, and I'll probably never do it again. Too much time and effort to do it right, and I don't think I care enough about League anymore. Many others are in the same situation.

In a similar way, another related factor in why tournaments have taken a downturn (at least where I am at) is because many of the great tournament directors have quit. I can think of a few tournament directors in my Section that used to run awesome events, with backdraws, player parties, t-shirts, and nice trophies or prizes. However, many of these guys and gals have retired and the younger pros that have taken their place have no interest in organizing and running events like that. Too much effort for too little reward.
 
I agree with you that it's a total pain to be a USTA League captain. I did it for many years, and I'll probably never do it again. Too much time and effort to do it right, and I don't think I care enough about League anymore. Many others are in the same situation.

In a similar way, another related factor in why tournaments have taken a downturn (at least where I am at) is because many of the great tournament directors have quit. I can think of a few tournament directors in my Section that used to run awesome events, with backdraws, player parties, t-shirts, and nice trophies or prizes. However, many of these guys and gals have retired and the younger pros that have taken their place have no interest in organizing and running events like that. Too much effort for too little reward.
See thats sad, because I think tournaments are actually what most people would gravitate to over leagues. Like others said, leagues can be a slog. You commit to a full season and you have tennis now penciled in every thursday night for the next 3 months. Tournaments are just a weekend commitment and I think could draw in the younger crowd who would normally not be able to play leagues.
 
See thats sad, because I think tournaments are actually what most people would gravitate to over leagues. Like others said, leagues can be a slog. You commit to a full season and you have tennis now penciled in every thursday night for the next 3 months. Tournaments are just a weekend commitment and I think could draw in the younger crowd who would normally not be able to play leagues.

It's definitely the other way around for me. One match a week for a long time is great, multiple matches in a single weekend doesn't sound like fun.
 
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Moon Shooter

Hall of Fame
Is USTA that expensive? An annual membership is less than $5 per month. And league fees are like $20 for 10 matches, or about $2 per match. What kind of services do you expect from them for this kind of money? What else do you pay less than $5 per month for that is a better value?

what exactly is the value?? Why are you paying usta to pay tennis matches when you don’t have to?

In my area we may only have one or two other teams in our league so I tell people I will try to get everyone two matches. We usually don’t have 10 events for the whole season so there is no way they will get ten matches unless we make playoffs.

so to get someone to play two matches they have to play court fees just like if they played socially. Plus they have to pay $44 for the yearly membership $22 per team plus gas and time. Home away matches are usually about a 50 minute drive one way. Round trip that is about a tank of gas. (Not counting state or sectionals) So why spend this money when there are plenty of people that can play you for free/court fees? I would like to make some teams for the social aspect, but a legitimate and meaningful rating would also be nice.

I can be a member of an indoor club for about $5/month. And I get the very obvious benefit of being able to rent courts.

And really there is no reason that everyone has to make such a substantial donation to usta - so USTA can buy property or subsidize some kid’s tennis lesson. They already make so much from being the official tennis organization there is no reason theycan’t run these leagues. As someone here said there are basically only 4 interns running the entire adult league stuff at the national level. The leagues are basically run at a local level and the league fee covers that.
 

Moon Shooter

Hall of Fame
$150/mo here

i probably spend about 2-300 playing tennis per month for clinics and equipment court time shoes etc. But I am paying to rent a court or have a pro run some drills or a pair of shoes etc. it is far less clear what I am getting when I choose to pay usta about 100/ year to simply play “usta tennis” over and above the court fees.
 

Moveforwardalways

Hall of Fame
what exactly is the value?? Why are you paying usta to pay tennis matches when you don’t have to?

In my area we may only have one or two other teams in our league so I tell people I will try to get everyone two matches. We usually don’t have 10 events for the whole season so there is no way they will get ten matches unless we make playoffs.

so to get someone to play two matches they have to play court fees just like if they played socially. Plus they have to pay $44 for the yearly membership $22 per team plus gas and time. Home away matches are usually about a 50 minute drive one way. Round trip that is about a tank of gas. (Not counting state or sectionals) So why spend this money when there are plenty of people that can play you for free/court fees? I would like to make some teams for the social aspect, but a legitimate and meaningful rating would also be nice.

I can be a member of an indoor club for about $5/month. And I get the very obvious benefit of being able to rent courts.

And really there is no reason that everyone has to make such a substantial donation to usta - so USTA can buy property or subsidize some kid’s tennis lesson. They already make so much from being the official tennis organization there is no reason theycan’t run these leagues. As someone here said there are basically only 4 interns running the entire adult league stuff at the national level. The leagues are basically run at a local level and the league fee covers that.

You must live in a rural area if you have to drive 50 minutes to a USTA match. In the situation you describe, I can see why playing USTA might be suboptimal. But that is not most people’s experience.

Also the USTA organizes leagues, runs a website, and runs a rating service. Even other services like UTR charge a fee for membership and a fee for leagues. This is not limited to USTA at all.

It sounds like you should stop playing USTA and play with your friends on your local courts in your area. Let everyone else worry about USTA fees. You should just go enjoy tennis on your terms.
 

derick232

Rookie
I used to be on the train of wanting to play tournaments. In fact I still would. But, more and more they don't have specific divisions and are just Open division, or don't have any singles division at all. So you get in and might play a 3.0 in the first match and then get stomped by a 5.0 in the next. The likely hood of getting more than 3 matches is not good unless you have a legitimate chance of winning the tournament. For me the biggest downside at this point is the time. Having to spend a whole weekend traveling over an hour away while I leave my wife with 2 young kids is tough to do. All so that I can play a few bad matches and I'm sore and worn out for the next few days.

Leagues are a better fit because they are less time commitment/week and they are at a consistent time. Competition is pretty good, though everyone just pools in 4.0 and it makes it very difficult to move to 4.5 because of the lack of players. At this point, I would be ecstatic to play once per week, even once a month would be something. Maybe someday I can be one of those guys who are in 3 leagues and plays 3-5 times a week.

And then the real kicker, nobody wants to play singles. The only reason I play doubles is because I can't find anyone to play singles. I would be in heaven if I could play a good singles match every week!
 

Moon Shooter

Hall of Fame
You must live in a rural area if you have to drive 50 minutes to a USTA match. In the situation you describe, I can see why playing USTA might be suboptimal. But that is not most people’s experience.

By most people do you mean most tennis players in America? What percent of adult rec players that play tennis at least 12 times a year are in usta? I think it is way under half. Maybe 15%.




Also the USTA organizes leagues, runs a website, and runs a rating service. Even other services like UTR charge a fee for membership and a fee for leagues. This is not limited to USTA at all.

No the national usta does not organize leagues. They have a rating service such as it is. But the captains actually enter the scores.

As for the website have you ever looked at their financials? Do you think there would be no website if they had no adult rec leagues? They do have a crappy add on for adult league stuff but it is pretty useless unless you are entering scores or want to see your rating one a year. If that is the cause of all this expense take it all down except the part where you enter scores.







It sounds like you should stop playing USTA and play with your friends on your local courts in your area. Let everyone else worry about USTA fees. You should just go enjoy tennis on your terms.

Anyone that disagrees with you should just shut up? If it is working in your local area that is all that matters? The USTA is supposed to be the tennis organization for the whole country not just your area.

Nationally it is not offering anything worth the cost for the vast majority of tennis players. But what’s the point of responding to people that don’t believe in math.
 
And then the real kicker, nobody wants to play singles. The only reason I play doubles is because I can't find anyone to play singles. I would be in heaven if I could play a good singles match every week!
Outside of Dallas, same here. I never even thought other parts of the country were so tennis dead. I play singles against community college kids from south america, good high school players, there's almost never an adult who "wants" to, but they do play in league because there are 2 lines. I bet every team has 1 player that wants to play singles and one line that does it, but often complains outloud about it. That's in the southern section. So different from Texas.
 

Moveforwardalways

Hall of Fame
By most people do you mean most tennis players in America? What percent of adult rec players that play tennis at least 12 times a year are in usta? I think it is way under half. Maybe 15%.






No the national usta does not organize leagues. They have a rating service such as it is. But the captains actually enter the scores.

As for the website have you ever looked at their financials? Do you think there would be no website if they had no adult rec leagues? They do have a crappy add on for adult league stuff but it is pretty useless unless you are entering scores or want to see your rating one a year. If that is the cause of all this expense take it all down except the part where you enter scores.









Anyone that disagrees with you should just shut up? If it is working in your local area that is all that matters? The USTA is supposed to be the tennis organization for the whole country not just your area.

Nationally it is not offering anything worth the cost for the vast majority of tennis players. But what’s the point of responding to people that don’t believe in math.

When you start leveling the same criticisms at UTR, which charges far more in fees for membership and far more for tournaments and leagues, maybe someone will listen. But right now it seems like you have a USTA axe to grind.
 

Chalkdust

Professional
My own personal experience is that more people are playing "competitive social" matches these days. By this I mean matches that are self-arranged and where the outcome is not recorded publicly, but the match is still played as a competitive one.

Probably due to some combination of:
Leagues and tournaments were shut down during the pandemic, so no other options.
Players more receptive to organizing their own matches, so the pool of potential players is larger.
Lack of time/flexibility to commit to leagues/tournaments.
Rising costs (tennis and more generally) making people thriftier.
General disillusionment with USTA and other "official" bodies.
 

TennisOTM

Professional
Competition is not declining everywhere within the U.S. For example in some areas (including mine), adult league participation has been growing and actually reached new highs this year. If we want to understand why it is declining overall, maybe we should be studying the places that are bucking the trend to learn what is different about them.

Do the places with growing participation have fundamentally different populations of tennis players who enjoy organized official competition more than people in other regions? Possibly, but I doubt it. My hypothesis is that the difference mostly comes down to the people working in the local tennis organizations and how effective they are. I believe we are lucky in my area to have talented and energetic staff who are quite good a drumming up interest in leagues and tournaments and helping to make them enjoyable for newbies and veterans alike.

I wonder if USTA National tracks these differences in local trends and tries to encourage the down-trending areas to learn from the up-trending ones. Do they have some kind of national conference where the local staff can exchange ideas about what's working and what isn't? It's not an easy problem to solve, but this could maybe be a good starting point if they're not already trying it.
 
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Outside of Dallas, same here. I never even thought other parts of the country were so tennis dead. I play singles against community college kids from south america, good high school players, there's almost never an adult who "wants" to, but they do play in league because there are 2 lines. I bet every team has 1 player that wants to play singles and one line that does it, but often complains outloud about it. That's in the southern section. So different from Texas.
I have found from personal experience that adults don't like to play singles because it exposes their lack of fitness and also exposes any weakenesses in their game more blatantly than doubles can. Doubles is easier to hide in, cut back on running, and it's generally more relaxed/social. This is the harsh truth (in general). There's nothing wrong with not wanting to play singles, but I find that many guys give excuses like "I'm better at doubles", or "singles is boring".. which is far from truth!! Doubles is super fast, especially at the rec level and I enjoy extended rallies which I simply can't get in dubs as much.
 

LocNetMonster

Professional
Here in central Illinois, participation is increasing. Between the park district and college campus, there are around 80 outdoor courts that are open to the public, plus another 20 or so private courts (at homes or apartment complexes). During warmer months, say mid-May to mid-Oct, getting on a court between 4p-10p can be hit or miss sometimes, even before the pandemic. With six area high school teams and D1 men's and women's teams, that cuts into court availability from 4-7p during the academic year. The only lull on weekends is between 11-2, otherwise, the majority of our courts are in use. There are at least ten organized groups with 10-20 players, that I know of, that play multiple times during the week. Many of the players participate in two or more groups, yet our overall USTA league participation is comparatively small. The majority of our USTA teams are travel teams and have to drive an hour or more to play every week. That becomes a big time commitment a couple of times a week, and for what? We have a lot of players here that mostly enjoy friendly competition and the social aspect of playing in groups with familiar faces.
 

Moon Shooter

Hall of Fame
When you start leveling the same criticisms at UTR, which charges far more in fees for membership and far more for tournaments and leagues, maybe someone will listen. But right now it seems like you have a USTA axe to grind.

UTR will always be a mess with its 12 month cliff.
I have specific issues with usta and address them here. I have nothing personal against usta or utr. I think wtn can help usta provide something of value. It is just a matter of whether USTA will dedicate some resources to fix the issues and truly roll out wtn events in a way that make them easily accessible.

the problem is there isn’t even a person at the national level that is even trying to assess why the adult rec tennis events are not appealing to the vast majority of tennis players. Instead I get questions about what race I am and whether I am gender fluid. They are completely clued out about anything the vast majority of players (regardless of their race or gender fluidity) might care about.
 
Here in central Illinois, participation is increasing. Between the park district and college campus, there are around 80 outdoor courts that are open to the public, plus another 20 or so private courts (at homes or apartment complexes). During warmer months, say mid-May to mid-Oct, getting on a court between 4p-10p can be hit or miss sometimes, even before the pandemic. With six area high school teams and D1 men's and women's teams, that cuts into court availability from 4-7p during the academic year. The only lull on weekends is between 11-2, otherwise, the majority of our courts are in use. There are at least ten organized groups with 10-20 players, that I know of, that play multiple times during the week. Many of the players participate in two or more groups, yet our overall USTA league participation is comparatively small. The majority of our USTA teams are travel teams and have to drive an hour or more to play every week. That becomes a big time commitment a couple of times a week, and for what? We have a lot of players here that mostly enjoy friendly competition and the social aspect of playing in groups with familiar faces.
That's what I mean by the rest of the country though. In Dallas usta league participation grew by 1500 players just this year and about the same last year, there are 600 tennis facilities, not courtd, but different places to play in the area (counting schools), there are now 4 bars that focus on pickleball, bar in the middle, nachos and fried chicken, 16 courts around it, so no pickleball conflict. There are so many men's 4.5 teams and players you could play new people every week, there are maybe 25 ish teams of men's 4.0. There's more than one UTR event every weekend not to mention many USTa tourneys.

Why isn't everywhere like this lol, sniffle
 

Moon Shooter

Hall of Fame
Here in central Illinois, participation is increasing. Between the park district and college campus, there are around 80 outdoor courts that are open to the public, plus another 20 or so private courts (at homes or apartment complexes). During warmer months, say mid-May to mid-Oct, getting on a court between 4p-10p can be hit or miss sometimes, even before the pandemic. With six area high school teams and D1 men's and women's teams, that cuts into court availability from 4-7p during the academic year. The only lull on weekends is between 11-2, otherwise, the majority of our courts are in use. There are at least ten organized groups with 10-20 players, that I know of, that play multiple times during the week. Many of the players participate in two or more groups, yet our overall USTA league participation is comparatively small. The majority of our USTA teams are travel teams and have to drive an hour or more to play every week. That becomes a big time commitment a couple of times a week, and for what? We have a lot of players here that mostly enjoy friendly competition and the social aspect of playing in groups with familiar faces.


Yes that is my experience in central Illinois as well. I suspect your from my town. Hint I’m not from Peoria. At least for men. It seems the women in my area have more usta stuff going on. I think it is because USTA does a better job dividing up beginner to 4.0 players at the women’s level. They can improve and get bumped to the next level and get a sense of accomplishment. Where as it is just a big swamp of 3.0 and 3.5 for the men. I think this is the first year, in quite a few,we had 4.0 mens league at all. 4.0 men players tended to have had enough, appeal down, or would just play some mixed doubles. Which has its own problems.

Lot’s of tennis players and tennis going on but it is unclear why you would pay extra for usta matches.
 

cks

Hall of Fame
Do they have some kind of national conference where the local staff can exchange ideas about what's working and what isn't? It's not an easy problem to solve, but this could maybe be a good starting point if they're not already trying it.

I did find some articles from USTA about a new pilot program to work with community tennis associations (CTA). The articles do not discuss programming for adult tennis, but I would assume most CTA are trying to promote tennis locally, which would include adult rec tennis.

USTA Article
Lake Travis Tennis Association Article
 

stapletonj

Hall of Fame
I have found from personal experience that adults don't like to play singles because it exposes their lack of fitness and also exposes any weakenesses in their game more blatantly than doubles can. Doubles is easier to hide in, cut back on running, and it's generally more relaxed/social. This is the harsh truth (in general). There's nothing wrong with not wanting to play singles, but I find that many guys give excuses like "I'm better at doubles", or "singles is boring".. which is far from truth!! Doubles is super fast, especially at the rec level and I enjoy extended rallies which I simply can't get in dubs as much.

I agree that singles is more taxing physically than doubs. and doubles points do end more quickly. However,

a. singles return of serve is usually a much more "relaxed", get a racket on it and bunt it back thing. Doing that in doubles will get you killed. returning serve effectively is 75% harder in doubles. I dont care if your push return is well out of the net mans reach (and God help you if it isn't - 50%) a good server will come in and hit a very aggressive shot (25%).

b. Your overhead needs to be better in doubles than singles. Singles? hitting a medium pace overhead generally away from wherever the opponent is shading is usually good enough. Doubles? While the court is a little wider, there are 2 people defending. Doubling the chance that one of them will be in position to field your overhead shot. You better hit a very sharp angle, or crush it enough that it is over their reach before it gets past the base line and stays that high when it hits the back fence.

c. Volleys are in play nearly every single point in doubles. Singles players may go an entire set and not hit a volley.

d. The tennis court is deeper (78 feet) than it is wide (27 feet for singles). Singles is MOSTLY left to right movement. Doubles is MOSTLY up and back. Doubles, played well, should involve coming in, then retreating to cover a lob or hit a deep overhead at least once per point. Now, since there are 2 guys on the Court, the activity per shot is less, granted.

Singles does emphasize "owning" strong groundstrokes and being able and happy to hit 7 hard topspin forehands in a row crosscourt, etc., and I do appreciate that . Over all, it does take a higher level of fitness. But good doubles is by no means only a refuge for old out of shape codgers like me............
 
I agree that singles is more taxing physically than doubs. and doubles points do end more quickly. However,

a. singles return of serve is usually a much more "relaxed", get a racket on it and bunt it back thing. Doing that in doubles will get you killed. returning serve effectively is 75% harder in doubles. I dont care if your push return is well out of the net mans reach (and God help you if it isn't - 50%) a good server will come in and hit a very aggressive shot (25%).

b. Your overhead needs to be better in doubles than singles. Singles? hitting a medium pace overhead generally away from wherever the opponent is shading is usually good enough. Doubles? While the court is a little wider, there are 2 people defending. Doubling the chance that one of them will be in position to field your overhead shot. You better hit a very sharp angle, or crush it enough that it is over their reach before it gets past the base line and stays that high when it hits the back fence.

c. Volleys are in play nearly every single point in doubles. Singles players may go an entire set and not hit a volley.

d. The tennis court is deeper (78 feet) than it is wide (27 feet for singles). Singles is MOSTLY left to right movement. Doubles is MOSTLY up and back. Doubles, played well, should involve coming in, then retreating to cover a lob or hit a deep overhead at least once per point. Now, since there are 2 guys on the Court, the activity per shot is less, granted.

Singles does emphasize "owning" strong groundstrokes and being able and happy to hit 7 hard topspin forehands in a row crosscourt, etc., and I do appreciate that . Over all, it does take a higher level of fitness. But good doubles is by no means only a refuge for old out of shape codgers like me............
You are correct on every count! I myself do enjoy doubles every now and again, it just is too fast for me sometimes and I feel so limited with my game... I like to be creative - drop shots, slices, angles, and hit every shot in my arsenal. Doubles can really start to feel like which team is serving better that day and just hammer the ball cross court until you can come in and finish at the net.
 

stapletonj

Hall of Fame
Then your net men need to learn how to poach. I am 66 1/2 years old and balls hammered cross court high over the net are juicy targets for me. Up to but not including 5.0 level play.
Then there is the Aussie formation....
Tell your partner that it is OK to chip lob one of those crosscourts over and behind the net man, especially on a deuce point, that lob makes the deuce player run across the court and then hit a backhand, which should come right to you at net.

angles and slices are and should be your bread and butter in doubles. Around the net post and into the alley shots are not at all unusual.
You bring up an interesting point, the drop shot is not in the doubles game much at all. Drop volleys, yes, but not drop shots.
 
Then your net men need to learn how to poach. I am 66 1/2 years old and balls hammered cross court high over the net are juicy targets for me. Up to but not including 5.0 level play.
Then there is the Aussie formation....
Tell your partner that it is OK to chip lob one of those crosscourts over and behind the net man, especially on a deuce point, that lob makes the deuce player run across the court and then hit a backhand, which should come right to you at net.

angles and slices are and should be your bread and butter in doubles. Around the net post and into the alley shots are not at all unusual.
You bring up an interesting point, the drop shot is not in the doubles game much at all. Drop volleys, yes, but not drop shots.
I see your point, but even if someone goes down the line that means the point ends pretty quickly usually. And you are correct about lobs. But with slices, even a knifed slice is hard to execute because usually the net guy will just eat that up. I guess it all just comes down to I hate having to worry about playing around the net guy and would rather play singles with no worries of every shot I hit being hammered away by the net guy, it just gets old for me.
 

Nostradamus

Bionic Poster
I've noticed that though courts are full, programs and clinics are packed, and plenty of people are taking lessons fewer and fewer people want organized competition.

Adult tournaments had long been in decline as leagues became more popular but now country club leagues as well as usta leagues are dropping off and juniors don't even want to play tournaments.

The adults just want to practice or play with their friends, and the kids just want to play on their high school team or practice and play with their friends.

Is it Covid where competition was canceled and people didn't miss it?

Is it UTR where people don't want every match to affect their magical number?

Are organizing bodies doing a poor job?

J

its that darn Pickelball.. we are losing all the best athletes from tennis to pickerball:sick:
 
You are correct on every count! I myself do enjoy doubles every now and again, it just is too fast for me sometimes and I feel so limited with my game... I like to be creative - drop shots, slices, angles, and hit every shot in my arsenal. Doubles can really start to feel like which team is serving better that day and just hammer the ball cross court until you can come in and finish at the net.

Hah, it feels like the other way around to me - I mostly play singles, and it feels like good singles is pretty uncreative. Hit the ball deep and crosscourt (or deep and to the other person's backhand) until they miss or give up a short ball. Yes, you could hit a lot of cool shots... and there's probably going to be a few opportunities each set to do something like that... but being steady is far more important than any of that. Doubles, on the other hand, definitely rewards creative play - you can't "play steady" because there's people at the net around to poach if anything gets too comfortable, so nearly every shot you have to be looking to do something with the ball, not just "get it back deep".
 
Hah, it feels like the other way around to me - I mostly play singles, and it feels like good singles is pretty uncreative. Hit the ball deep and crosscourt (or deep and to the other person's backhand) until they miss or give up a short ball. Yes, you could hit a lot of cool shots... and there's probably going to be a few opportunities each set to do something like that... but being steady is far more important than any of that. Doubles, on the other hand, definitely rewards creative play - you can't "play steady" because there's people at the net around to poach if anything gets too comfortable, so nearly every shot you have to be looking to do something with the ball, not just "get it back deep".
I see your point but I find if I try to play creative in Dubs especially at the 4.0/4.5 level the net player just poaches and hammers it away unless its an exceptional drop shot or perfectly knifed slice/high lob. In singles I have so much more court to work with and don't have to constantly hit hard to avoid the net guy.
 
I see your point but I find if I try to play creative in Dubs especially at the 4.0/4.5 level the net player just poaches and hammers it away unless its an exceptional drop shot or perfectly knifed slice/high lob. In singles I have so much more court to work with and don't have to constantly hit hard to avoid the net guy.

Or a volley. Feels telling that when you discuss how to be creative, you're only talking about groundstrokes...

I guess by "creative" you mean "well-placed but soft groundstroke"? In that case yes, that's definitely a singles shot.
 

am1899

Legend
Personally, I find singles is a lot more straight forward. Find your opponent's weakness and exploit it relentlessly. Being creative might be rewarding in the endeavor, but it may actually hurt your chances of getting the W.

In doubles, with the sharing of the space between 2 players on each side of the net it becomes a lot easier to hide a weaker player, and/or a player with some weaknesses. So then it becomes a bit of a game of chess to see which side can better expose the weaker players and/or their weaknesses. At the same time, when you're hitting the ball in doubles you have to constantly concerned with the person you're trying to hit the ball to and with the person you're trying to keep the ball from. To play "keep away" in that way, doesn't just require pace...it requires variety, guile, directional control, consistency, and anticipation. You have to have every shot in the book, have nerves of steel, and you have to have eyes in the back of your head.

In my first career, I disliked doubles. Players older than me told me to wait, "I would soon appreciate doubles." "Yeah right," I thought. Now I would much rather play doubles if given a choice.
 
Or a volley. Feels telling that when you discuss how to be creative, you're only talking about groundstrokes...

I guess by "creative" you mean "well-placed but soft groundstroke"? In that case yes, that's definitely a singles shot.
I am only talking groundstrokes. Angled and drop volleys can be fun but don't happen that much in dubs when I play. Generally just drive it a the net guys feet or down the middle
 

Moon Shooter

Hall of Fame

Now of course just playing tennis a few times doesn’t mean you are ready for usta matches. However having a bunch of fun leagues would be a good reason for people to start playing tennis and stay with it. The leagues haven’t really changed that much so I doubt anything usta did contributed to this surge - it was most likely COVID. Will people see these great fun leagues usta has and decide to stay? The increased awareness of all the recreational opportunities usta offers should help this snowball.

In any case we should see a surge in usta league numbers as there are many more people playing tennis. It should be interesting to see. I suspect the women’s usta will continue to do better than the men’s.
 
I’m too far away from Minneapolis to participate in leagues, so I’m not sure how healthy the USTA competitive league scene is in the area.

However, I do know that The northern section had to cancel its 2022 40+/55+ section championships scheduled for this weekend because of lack of interest.

Take that for what you will
 

schmke

Legend
WA

Now of course just playing tennis a few times doesn’t mean you are ready for usta matches. However having a bunch of fun leagues would be a good reason for people to start playing tennis and stay with it. The leagues haven’t really changed that much so I doubt anything usta did contributed to this surge - it was most likely COVID. Will people see these great fun leagues usta has and decide to stay? The increased awareness of all the recreational opportunities usta offers should help this snowball.

In any case we should see a surge in usta league numbers as there are many more people playing tennis. It should be interesting to see. I suspect the women’s usta will continue to do better than the men’s.
I already wrote on league participation in 2022. There was no surge. And yes, women's participation continues to be higher than men.
 

Moon Shooter

Hall of Fame
WA

I already wrote on league participation in 2022. There was no surge. And yes, women's participation continues to be higher than men.


Thanks for letting me know:

Your numbers do not include people that only played usta mixed doubles. There are quite a few people in may area that only played mixed doubles. I doubt it would change the overall numbers that much since I would think most of the USTA participation is in certain small hot spots in the country - and they have enough usta members to have same gender leagues. I suspect that the percentage of people that play only mixed doubles goes up as the populations gets thinner.

It looks like about half as many men play usta as women. I really think the fact that two levels of men 3.0 and 3.5 is divided into 4 levels for the women makes that a much better system. People want to play with people of the same skill level. They don't want to hear about how the typical outcome for someone at their same exact published rating will be 6-0 6-0.

I think decline is at least in part due to baby boomers getting a bit too old. Gen X is a smaller population. Millennials are just starting to hit their 40s when league participation typically increases. So I think some of this dip is due to generation sizes. But I think the huge surge in tennis from covid dwarfed this aspect.

2020 saw this huge surge in people playing tennis, and the question is will these players new or reintroduced to tennis find that USTA offers these great fun social leagues and stick with tennis and join USTA? I wouldn't expect it in 2020. Even 2021 might have been too early. But by 2022 I would at least think we would start to see the people from this surge entering USTA ranks. But I am willing to wait for 2023. But by then if we don't see any increase I think it is safe to say USTA services just don't appeal to tennis players and it is doing a poor job keeping adults in the sport.

I know people think I am just bashing USTA but I feel like I am at least offering some sort of objective criteria.
 

silentkman

Hall of Fame
Thanks for letting me know:

Your numbers do not include people that only played usta mixed doubles. There are quite a few people in may area that only played mixed doubles. I doubt it would change the overall numbers that much since I would think most of the USTA participation is in certain small hot spots in the country - and they have enough usta members to have same gender leagues. I suspect that the percentage of people that play only mixed doubles goes up as the populations gets thinner.

It looks like about half as many men play usta as women. I really think the fact that two levels of men 3.0 and 3.5 is divided into 4 levels for the women makes that a much better system. People want to play with people of the same skill level. They don't want to hear about how the typical outcome for someone at their same exact published rating will be 6-0 6-0.

I think decline is at least in part due to baby boomers getting a bit too old. Gen X is a smaller population. Millennials are just starting to hit their 40s when league participation typically increases. So I think some of this dip is due to generation sizes. But I think the huge surge in tennis from covid dwarfed this aspect.

2020 saw this huge surge in people playing tennis, and the question is will these players new or reintroduced to tennis find that USTA offers these great fun social leagues and stick with tennis and join USTA? I wouldn't expect it in 2020. Even 2021 might have been too early. But by 2022 I would at least think we would start to see the people from this surge entering USTA ranks. But I am willing to wait for 2023. But by then if we don't see any increase I think it is safe to say USTA services just don't appeal to tennis players and it is doing a poor job keeping adults in the sport.

I know people think I am just bashing USTA but I feel like I am at least offering some sort of objective criteria.

USTA offers great social leagues? I don't think so. I don't think USTA should be the only barometer to determine if people are playing tennis. the issues with league tennis has always been over zealous captains. if you have been a captain for a long time, chicanery has existed. Baby Boomers are still playing tennis, obviously not in USTA leagues. USTA has tried to stop the cheating, it's woven into the fabric of league tennis.
 

FRV4

Hall of Fame
It's becoming a social activity rather than something rich people with big egos do to feel better about themselves. I have a big ego myself, I'm just saying.
 

sammyp99

Rookie
Outside of Dallas, same here. I never even thought other parts of the country were so tennis dead. I play singles against community college kids from south america, good high school players, there's almost never an adult who "wants" to, but they do play in league because there are 2 lines. I bet every team has 1 player that wants to play singles and one line that does it, but often complains outloud about it. That's in the southern section. So different from Texas.

This is crazy though. I tried to play a singles tournament at 4.5 but got put into the "alternates" list. They are literally turning away tournament participants. I also signed up thinking this was an indoor tournament which apparently is not the case. Probably won't be signing up for this one anymore... used to be the most prestigious tournament in DFW for adults.

link to the Cotton Bowl tournament
 
This is crazy though. I tried to play a singles tournament at 4.5 but got put into the "alternates" list. They are literally turning away tournament participants. I also signed up thinking this was an indoor tournament which apparently is not the case. Probably won't be signing up for this one anymore... used to be the most prestigious tournament in DFW for adults.

link to the Cotton Bowl tournament
It's kind of sad, I also used to do this every year, I missed it this year. But, the past two previous years it was outdoors, ok, luckily the weather was good but 3 years ago it was 20-25 MPH winds and that wasn't fun frankly, not really at all. Now, the past 3 years (including this year) I think were all outdoors, that just doesn't work. It used to be at Brookhaven mostly indoors. I think that is a factor. Something changed though because I got at least 6 emails begging me to play this year, probably just because I was a past participant. It is sad, that tournament is a landmark event in Dallas.

It might still be the most "prestigious" in a round about way, it's just that all the tournaments have muted participation?
 

onehandbh

G.O.A.T.
This is crazy though. I tried to play a singles tournament at 4.5 but got put into the "alternates" list. They are literally turning away tournament participants. I also signed up thinking this was an indoor tournament which apparently is not the case. Probably won't be signing up for this one anymore... used to be the most prestigious tournament in DFW for adults.

link to the Cotton Bowl tournament
Looks like they only allow a max of 32 participants in the singles draw.
 
I probably won’t play Cotton Bowl again unless it moves back indoors, or if I am super close to qualifying for nationals. One factor in Texas tourneys is some longtime tourney directors have retired and their replacements have struggled.
 

gino

Legend
I've noticed that though courts are full, programs and clinics are packed, and plenty of people are taking lessons fewer and fewer people want organized competition.

Adult tournaments had long been in decline as leagues became more popular but now country club leagues as well as usta leagues are dropping off and juniors don't even want to play tournaments.

The adults just want to practice or play with their friends, and the kids just want to play on their high school team or practice and play with their friends.

Is it Covid where competition was canceled and people didn't miss it?

Is it UTR where people don't want every match to affect their magical number?

Are organizing bodies doing a poor job?

J
the UTR effect looms large. I think lots of players that used to pack the schedule with USTA mens opens are backing off too, from what I hear from former collegiate teammates. This is tricky because tournament draws will get smaller and the same players will meet week after week. USTA and UTR need to find synergistic ways to stimulate the desire to compete at all levels
 
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