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In most areas of the USA, private tennis clubs are about the same price as a CrossFit gym. I’m sure it is more expensive in Southern California or the northeastern megalopolis though.
Golf, oooooh!LOL. The one I belonged too in your town wasn't that bad. I actually belonged to two. One in the city and one north of town, which also had golf.
I think plenty of people would love to play leagues, but no one wants to captain. Being a captain is a major PIA, having to deal with getting all the guys, scheduling matches, dealing with weather, dealing with egos on the team, etc. I already work full-time, why would I want to tack on another part-time job on top of it? I'd rather hit and play social matches at my leisure.
See thats sad, because I think tournaments are actually what most people would gravitate to over leagues. Like others said, leagues can be a slog. You commit to a full season and you have tennis now penciled in every thursday night for the next 3 months. Tournaments are just a weekend commitment and I think could draw in the younger crowd who would normally not be able to play leagues.I agree with you that it's a total pain to be a USTA League captain. I did it for many years, and I'll probably never do it again. Too much time and effort to do it right, and I don't think I care enough about League anymore. Many others are in the same situation.
In a similar way, another related factor in why tournaments have taken a downturn (at least where I am at) is because many of the great tournament directors have quit. I can think of a few tournament directors in my Section that used to run awesome events, with backdraws, player parties, t-shirts, and nice trophies or prizes. However, many of these guys and gals have retired and the younger pros that have taken their place have no interest in organizing and running events like that. Too much effort for too little reward.
See thats sad, because I think tournaments are actually what most people would gravitate to over leagues. Like others said, leagues can be a slog. You commit to a full season and you have tennis now penciled in every thursday night for the next 3 months. Tournaments are just a weekend commitment and I think could draw in the younger crowd who would normally not be able to play leagues.
If you are paying $200 per month, you are more than likely a member of an athletic club or private club.
Is USTA that expensive? An annual membership is less than $5 per month. And league fees are like $20 for 10 matches, or about $2 per match. What kind of services do you expect from them for this kind of money? What else do you pay less than $5 per month for that is a better value?
$150/mo here
what exactly is the value?? Why are you paying usta to pay tennis matches when you don’t have to?
In my area we may only have one or two other teams in our league so I tell people I will try to get everyone two matches. We usually don’t have 10 events for the whole season so there is no way they will get ten matches unless we make playoffs.
so to get someone to play two matches they have to play court fees just like if they played socially. Plus they have to pay $44 for the yearly membership $22 per team plus gas and time. Home away matches are usually about a 50 minute drive one way. Round trip that is about a tank of gas. (Not counting state or sectionals) So why spend this money when there are plenty of people that can play you for free/court fees? I would like to make some teams for the social aspect, but a legitimate and meaningful rating would also be nice.
I can be a member of an indoor club for about $5/month. And I get the very obvious benefit of being able to rent courts.
And really there is no reason that everyone has to make such a substantial donation to usta - so USTA can buy property or subsidize some kid’s tennis lesson. They already make so much from being the official tennis organization there is no reason theycan’t run these leagues. As someone here said there are basically only 4 interns running the entire adult league stuff at the national level. The leagues are basically run at a local level and the league fee covers that.
You must live in a rural area if you have to drive 50 minutes to a USTA match. In the situation you describe, I can see why playing USTA might be suboptimal. But that is not most people’s experience.
Also the USTA organizes leagues, runs a website, and runs a rating service. Even other services like UTR charge a fee for membership and a fee for leagues. This is not limited to USTA at all.
It sounds like you should stop playing USTA and play with your friends on your local courts in your area. Let everyone else worry about USTA fees. You should just go enjoy tennis on your terms.
Outside of Dallas, same here. I never even thought other parts of the country were so tennis dead. I play singles against community college kids from south america, good high school players, there's almost never an adult who "wants" to, but they do play in league because there are 2 lines. I bet every team has 1 player that wants to play singles and one line that does it, but often complains outloud about it. That's in the southern section. So different from Texas.And then the real kicker, nobody wants to play singles. The only reason I play doubles is because I can't find anyone to play singles. I would be in heaven if I could play a good singles match every week!
By most people do you mean most tennis players in America? What percent of adult rec players that play tennis at least 12 times a year are in usta? I think it is way under half. Maybe 15%.
No the national usta does not organize leagues. They have a rating service such as it is. But the captains actually enter the scores.
As for the website have you ever looked at their financials? Do you think there would be no website if they had no adult rec leagues? They do have a crappy add on for adult league stuff but it is pretty useless unless you are entering scores or want to see your rating one a year. If that is the cause of all this expense take it all down except the part where you enter scores.
Anyone that disagrees with you should just shut up? If it is working in your local area that is all that matters? The USTA is supposed to be the tennis organization for the whole country not just your area.
Nationally it is not offering anything worth the cost for the vast majority of tennis players. But what’s the point of responding to people that don’t believe in math.
I have found from personal experience that adults don't like to play singles because it exposes their lack of fitness and also exposes any weakenesses in their game more blatantly than doubles can. Doubles is easier to hide in, cut back on running, and it's generally more relaxed/social. This is the harsh truth (in general). There's nothing wrong with not wanting to play singles, but I find that many guys give excuses like "I'm better at doubles", or "singles is boring".. which is far from truth!! Doubles is super fast, especially at the rec level and I enjoy extended rallies which I simply can't get in dubs as much.Outside of Dallas, same here. I never even thought other parts of the country were so tennis dead. I play singles against community college kids from south america, good high school players, there's almost never an adult who "wants" to, but they do play in league because there are 2 lines. I bet every team has 1 player that wants to play singles and one line that does it, but often complains outloud about it. That's in the southern section. So different from Texas.
When you start leveling the same criticisms at UTR, which charges far more in fees for membership and far more for tournaments and leagues, maybe someone will listen. But right now it seems like you have a USTA axe to grind.
That's what I mean by the rest of the country though. In Dallas usta league participation grew by 1500 players just this year and about the same last year, there are 600 tennis facilities, not courtd, but different places to play in the area (counting schools), there are now 4 bars that focus on pickleball, bar in the middle, nachos and fried chicken, 16 courts around it, so no pickleball conflict. There are so many men's 4.5 teams and players you could play new people every week, there are maybe 25 ish teams of men's 4.0. There's more than one UTR event every weekend not to mention many USTa tourneys.Here in central Illinois, participation is increasing. Between the park district and college campus, there are around 80 outdoor courts that are open to the public, plus another 20 or so private courts (at homes or apartment complexes). During warmer months, say mid-May to mid-Oct, getting on a court between 4p-10p can be hit or miss sometimes, even before the pandemic. With six area high school teams and D1 men's and women's teams, that cuts into court availability from 4-7p during the academic year. The only lull on weekends is between 11-2, otherwise, the majority of our courts are in use. There are at least ten organized groups with 10-20 players, that I know of, that play multiple times during the week. Many of the players participate in two or more groups, yet our overall USTA league participation is comparatively small. The majority of our USTA teams are travel teams and have to drive an hour or more to play every week. That becomes a big time commitment a couple of times a week, and for what? We have a lot of players here that mostly enjoy friendly competition and the social aspect of playing in groups with familiar faces.
Here in central Illinois, participation is increasing. Between the park district and college campus, there are around 80 outdoor courts that are open to the public, plus another 20 or so private courts (at homes or apartment complexes). During warmer months, say mid-May to mid-Oct, getting on a court between 4p-10p can be hit or miss sometimes, even before the pandemic. With six area high school teams and D1 men's and women's teams, that cuts into court availability from 4-7p during the academic year. The only lull on weekends is between 11-2, otherwise, the majority of our courts are in use. There are at least ten organized groups with 10-20 players, that I know of, that play multiple times during the week. Many of the players participate in two or more groups, yet our overall USTA league participation is comparatively small. The majority of our USTA teams are travel teams and have to drive an hour or more to play every week. That becomes a big time commitment a couple of times a week, and for what? We have a lot of players here that mostly enjoy friendly competition and the social aspect of playing in groups with familiar faces.
Do they have some kind of national conference where the local staff can exchange ideas about what's working and what isn't? It's not an easy problem to solve, but this could maybe be a good starting point if they're not already trying it.
I have found from personal experience that adults don't like to play singles because it exposes their lack of fitness and also exposes any weakenesses in their game more blatantly than doubles can. Doubles is easier to hide in, cut back on running, and it's generally more relaxed/social. This is the harsh truth (in general). There's nothing wrong with not wanting to play singles, but I find that many guys give excuses like "I'm better at doubles", or "singles is boring".. which is far from truth!! Doubles is super fast, especially at the rec level and I enjoy extended rallies which I simply can't get in dubs as much.
You are correct on every count! I myself do enjoy doubles every now and again, it just is too fast for me sometimes and I feel so limited with my game... I like to be creative - drop shots, slices, angles, and hit every shot in my arsenal. Doubles can really start to feel like which team is serving better that day and just hammer the ball cross court until you can come in and finish at the net.I agree that singles is more taxing physically than doubs. and doubles points do end more quickly. However,
a. singles return of serve is usually a much more "relaxed", get a racket on it and bunt it back thing. Doing that in doubles will get you killed. returning serve effectively is 75% harder in doubles. I dont care if your push return is well out of the net mans reach (and God help you if it isn't - 50%) a good server will come in and hit a very aggressive shot (25%).
b. Your overhead needs to be better in doubles than singles. Singles? hitting a medium pace overhead generally away from wherever the opponent is shading is usually good enough. Doubles? While the court is a little wider, there are 2 people defending. Doubling the chance that one of them will be in position to field your overhead shot. You better hit a very sharp angle, or crush it enough that it is over their reach before it gets past the base line and stays that high when it hits the back fence.
c. Volleys are in play nearly every single point in doubles. Singles players may go an entire set and not hit a volley.
d. The tennis court is deeper (78 feet) than it is wide (27 feet for singles). Singles is MOSTLY left to right movement. Doubles is MOSTLY up and back. Doubles, played well, should involve coming in, then retreating to cover a lob or hit a deep overhead at least once per point. Now, since there are 2 guys on the Court, the activity per shot is less, granted.
Singles does emphasize "owning" strong groundstrokes and being able and happy to hit 7 hard topspin forehands in a row crosscourt, etc., and I do appreciate that . Over all, it does take a higher level of fitness. But good doubles is by no means only a refuge for old out of shape codgers like me............
I see your point, but even if someone goes down the line that means the point ends pretty quickly usually. And you are correct about lobs. But with slices, even a knifed slice is hard to execute because usually the net guy will just eat that up. I guess it all just comes down to I hate having to worry about playing around the net guy and would rather play singles with no worries of every shot I hit being hammered away by the net guy, it just gets old for me.Then your net men need to learn how to poach. I am 66 1/2 years old and balls hammered cross court high over the net are juicy targets for me. Up to but not including 5.0 level play.
Then there is the Aussie formation....
Tell your partner that it is OK to chip lob one of those crosscourts over and behind the net man, especially on a deuce point, that lob makes the deuce player run across the court and then hit a backhand, which should come right to you at net.
angles and slices are and should be your bread and butter in doubles. Around the net post and into the alley shots are not at all unusual.
You bring up an interesting point, the drop shot is not in the doubles game much at all. Drop volleys, yes, but not drop shots.
I've noticed that though courts are full, programs and clinics are packed, and plenty of people are taking lessons fewer and fewer people want organized competition.
Adult tournaments had long been in decline as leagues became more popular but now country club leagues as well as usta leagues are dropping off and juniors don't even want to play tournaments.
The adults just want to practice or play with their friends, and the kids just want to play on their high school team or practice and play with their friends.
Is it Covid where competition was canceled and people didn't miss it?
Is it UTR where people don't want every match to affect their magical number?
Are organizing bodies doing a poor job?
J
You are correct on every count! I myself do enjoy doubles every now and again, it just is too fast for me sometimes and I feel so limited with my game... I like to be creative - drop shots, slices, angles, and hit every shot in my arsenal. Doubles can really start to feel like which team is serving better that day and just hammer the ball cross court until you can come in and finish at the net.
I see your point but I find if I try to play creative in Dubs especially at the 4.0/4.5 level the net player just poaches and hammers it away unless its an exceptional drop shot or perfectly knifed slice/high lob. In singles I have so much more court to work with and don't have to constantly hit hard to avoid the net guy.Hah, it feels like the other way around to me - I mostly play singles, and it feels like good singles is pretty uncreative. Hit the ball deep and crosscourt (or deep and to the other person's backhand) until they miss or give up a short ball. Yes, you could hit a lot of cool shots... and there's probably going to be a few opportunities each set to do something like that... but being steady is far more important than any of that. Doubles, on the other hand, definitely rewards creative play - you can't "play steady" because there's people at the net around to poach if anything gets too comfortable, so nearly every shot you have to be looking to do something with the ball, not just "get it back deep".
I see your point but I find if I try to play creative in Dubs especially at the 4.0/4.5 level the net player just poaches and hammers it away unless its an exceptional drop shot or perfectly knifed slice/high lob. In singles I have so much more court to work with and don't have to constantly hit hard to avoid the net guy.
I am only talking groundstrokes. Angled and drop volleys can be fun but don't happen that much in dubs when I play. Generally just drive it a the net guys feet or down the middleOr a volley. Feels telling that when you discuss how to be creative, you're only talking about groundstrokes...
I guess by "creative" you mean "well-placed but soft groundstroke"? In that case yes, that's definitely a singles shot.
I already wrote on league participation in 2022. There was no surge. And yes, women's participation continues to be higher than men.![]()
U.S. tennis participation surges in 2020, Physical Activity Council (PAC) report finds
Tennis participation increased by 22% in the U.S. in 2020, with 21.64 million people hitting the courts, according to the Physical Activity Council's (PAC) Participation report produced by Sports Marketing Surveys.www.usta.com
Now of course just playing tennis a few times doesn’t mean you are ready for usta matches. However having a bunch of fun leagues would be a good reason for people to start playing tennis and stay with it. The leagues haven’t really changed that much so I doubt anything usta did contributed to this surge - it was most likely COVID. Will people see these great fun leagues usta has and decide to stay? The increased awareness of all the recreational opportunities usta offers should help this snowball.
In any case we should see a surge in usta league numbers as there are many more people playing tennis. It should be interesting to see. I suspect the women’s usta will continue to do better than the men’s.
WA
I already wrote on league participation in 2022. There was no surge. And yes, women's participation continues to be higher than men.
... 4 bars that focus on pickleball, bar in the middle, nachos and fried chicken, 16 courts around it,..
Thanks for letting me know:
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USTA Adult League Participation 2013 thru 2022 - Participation is up! No, wait, it is down. Well, ...
I'm starting my year-end statistics and analysis a little earlier than normal this year. I normally wait for year-end ratings, but some of ...computerratings.blogspot.com
Your numbers do not include people that only played usta mixed doubles. There are quite a few people in may area that only played mixed doubles. I doubt it would change the overall numbers that much since I would think most of the USTA participation is in certain small hot spots in the country - and they have enough usta members to have same gender leagues. I suspect that the percentage of people that play only mixed doubles goes up as the populations gets thinner.
It looks like about half as many men play usta as women. I really think the fact that two levels of men 3.0 and 3.5 is divided into 4 levels for the women makes that a much better system. People want to play with people of the same skill level. They don't want to hear about how the typical outcome for someone at their same exact published rating will be 6-0 6-0.
I think decline is at least in part due to baby boomers getting a bit too old. Gen X is a smaller population. Millennials are just starting to hit their 40s when league participation typically increases. So I think some of this dip is due to generation sizes. But I think the huge surge in tennis from covid dwarfed this aspect.
2020 saw this huge surge in people playing tennis, and the question is will these players new or reintroduced to tennis find that USTA offers these great fun social leagues and stick with tennis and join USTA? I wouldn't expect it in 2020. Even 2021 might have been too early. But by 2022 I would at least think we would start to see the people from this surge entering USTA ranks. But I am willing to wait for 2023. But by then if we don't see any increase I think it is safe to say USTA services just don't appeal to tennis players and it is doing a poor job keeping adults in the sport.
I know people think I am just bashing USTA but I feel like I am at least offering some sort of objective criteria.
Outside of Dallas, same here. I never even thought other parts of the country were so tennis dead. I play singles against community college kids from south america, good high school players, there's almost never an adult who "wants" to, but they do play in league because there are 2 lines. I bet every team has 1 player that wants to play singles and one line that does it, but often complains outloud about it. That's in the southern section. So different from Texas.
" if you have been a captain for a long time, chicanery has existed. "
All warfare is based on deception
~ Sun Tzu
It's kind of sad, I also used to do this every year, I missed it this year. But, the past two previous years it was outdoors, ok, luckily the weather was good but 3 years ago it was 20-25 MPH winds and that wasn't fun frankly, not really at all. Now, the past 3 years (including this year) I think were all outdoors, that just doesn't work. It used to be at Brookhaven mostly indoors. I think that is a factor. Something changed though because I got at least 6 emails begging me to play this year, probably just because I was a past participant. It is sad, that tournament is a landmark event in Dallas.This is crazy though. I tried to play a singles tournament at 4.5 but got put into the "alternates" list. They are literally turning away tournament participants. I also signed up thinking this was an indoor tournament which apparently is not the case. Probably won't be signing up for this one anymore... used to be the most prestigious tournament in DFW for adults.
link to the Cotton Bowl tournament
Looks like they only allow a max of 32 participants in the singles draw.This is crazy though. I tried to play a singles tournament at 4.5 but got put into the "alternates" list. They are literally turning away tournament participants. I also signed up thinking this was an indoor tournament which apparently is not the case. Probably won't be signing up for this one anymore... used to be the most prestigious tournament in DFW for adults.
link to the Cotton Bowl tournament
That's very sad, it used to be at least a hundred, I think holding it outside is the issue. It was pretty cold in Dallas, the winter thing dipped down to Dallas.Looks like they only allow a max of 32 participants in the singles draw.
the UTR effect looms large. I think lots of players that used to pack the schedule with USTA mens opens are backing off too, from what I hear from former collegiate teammates. This is tricky because tournament draws will get smaller and the same players will meet week after week. USTA and UTR need to find synergistic ways to stimulate the desire to compete at all levelsI've noticed that though courts are full, programs and clinics are packed, and plenty of people are taking lessons fewer and fewer people want organized competition.
Adult tournaments had long been in decline as leagues became more popular but now country club leagues as well as usta leagues are dropping off and juniors don't even want to play tournaments.
The adults just want to practice or play with their friends, and the kids just want to play on their high school team or practice and play with their friends.
Is it Covid where competition was canceled and people didn't miss it?
Is it UTR where people don't want every match to affect their magical number?
Are organizing bodies doing a poor job?
J