Tennis improvement and age

Finster

Rookie
How much of a factor is age in improving your game? If you are middle age and doing the same amount of practicing/drills/technique change as someone in their 30s, does your age limit how much better you can get no matter the effort? Will the younger guy have a higher ceiling and more rapid development just based on age? Please factor out movement, quickness and fitness, I'm asking purely from a technique viewpoint.
 

ppma

Professional
Yes. Whatever you learn and practice at an early age becomes somewhat natural.

Personal experience, I played with my dad when I was around 8-12 yo. Never had a backhand nor serve back then, but developed a good feel for topspin forehand. Then took tennis again at 22 and soon enough the forehand was there and could rally with lots of rythm. However, learning the other strokes has been a different story.

But, ofc, this is for kids. Don't think there is a difference in older ages.
 
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LuckyR

Legend
How much of a factor is age in improving your game? If you are middle age and doing the same amount of practicing/drills/technique change as someone in their 30s, does your age limit how much better you can get no matter the effort? Will the younger guy have a higher ceiling and more rapid development just based on age? Please factor out movement, quickness and fitness, I'm asking purely from a technique viewpoint.
A couple of factors:

Are both players at their lifetime maximum? ie is the older guy getting back into the game after a lot of time off?

I my experience the main advantage for the old guy is they're (on average) more willing to acknowledge they don't, in fact, know everything and are thus more likely to take stragegy and shot selection advice. Which, BTW is more likely to lead to matchplay wins than technique.
 

badmice2

Professional
I’ve been teaching adults for a while now, couple of input I have on this topic…

While I agree quickness and fitness can be left off the table, movement can’t…it’s part of the technique. Proper racket delivery requires spacing and movement. Therefore if you can’t get into proper position, you’ll be out of form.

Having said that, the biggest barrier for adults IMO comes down to 1 thing…they’re not willing to miss to learn new technique. They gauge and judge (key word here) success on the technique based on whether the ball goes in, instead of whether they delivered the technique. In doing so, they hold back with the execution and never make the actual change because…you guessed it…they don’t trust it. The adults who actually improves stays open-minded about the outcome and focuses on the execution.
 

Bambooman

Legend
I’ve been teaching adults for a while now, couple of input I have on this topic…

While I agree quickness and fitness can be left off the table, movement can’t…it’s part of the technique. Proper racket delivery requires spacing and movement. Therefore if you can’t get into proper position, you’ll be out of form.
Unless you only want to hit balls fed right to you fitness is a large factor in repeating movement

One of the first things I noticed when hitting against older guys is that after a few shots they stop being willing or able to move into position and whatever technique they may have evaporates.
 

badmice2

Professional
Unless you only want to hit balls fed right to you fitness is a large factor in repeating movement

One of the first things I noticed when hitting against older guys is that after a few shots they stop being willing or able to move into position and whatever technique they may have evaporates.
Fitness only matters if you’re talking about time on court. The question wasn’t about whether someone will become a better competitor, but improve their game from the technical lense. Therefore you pointed out the same thing I did, positioning (movement) and form plays hand-in-hand. If we’re adding match wins into the equation, then we need to consider fitness and athleticism.
 

Bambooman

Legend
Fitness only matters if you’re talking about time on court. The question wasn’t about whether someone will become a better competitor, but improve their game from the technical lense. Therefore you pointed out the same thing I did, positioning (movement) and form plays hand-in-hand. If we’re adding match wins into the equation, then we need to consider fitness and athleticism.
Practice time is time on the court. It doesn't have to be a game.

Improving the game from a technical sense is for actually competing better, is it not?
 

badmice2

Professional
Practice time is time on the court. It doesn't have to be a game.

Improving the game from a technical sense is for actually competing better, is it not?
So you’re saying people can’t play tennis for the joy of playing? In doing so hit a good ball?
 

badmice2

Professional
They can but if you are hitting great and losing then are you really playing well?
Love of the game.

Not everything is about the competition. This goes right into the argument of the ball going in and out. If you can’t put a ball in due to technique, then should someone quit trying because it’s not worth it? On the flip side, if someone have great fitness but can’t put together their movement or have poor hand-eye, do you think practicing more of the same crap will make them better?

Obliviously one will get better sooner than the other, but that doesn’t mean they can’t improve.
You’re pointing out the exact roadblock that holds people back, the idea that it’s all or nothing.
 

Bambooman

Legend
Love of the game.

Not everything is about the competition. This goes right into the argument of the ball going in and out. If you can’t put a ball in due to technique, then should someone quit trying because it’s not worth it? On the flip side, if someone have great fitness but can’t put together their movement or have poor hand-eye, do you think practicing more of the same crap will make them better?

Obliviously one will get better sooner than the other, but that doesn’t mean they can’t improve.
You’re pointing out the exact roadblock that holds people back, the idea that it’s all or nothing.

I get it. You're not a competitor.
 

Rosstour

G.O.A.T.
How much of a factor is age in improving your game? If you are middle age and doing the same amount of practicing/drills/technique change as someone in their 30s, does your age limit how much better you can get no matter the effort? Will the younger guy have a higher ceiling and more rapid development just based on age? Please factor out movement, quickness and fitness, I'm asking purely from a technique viewpoint.

If all other things are equal, then yes
 

matterer

Semi-Pro
I think it is. Older people tend to get tired faster and quit earlier which mean less learning time.
Learning technique isn't really physical though, it's mental. You come up with better ideas of how to do things. It's like solving a puzzle, and how well you've solved it determines how good you'll be.
 

StringSnapper

Hall of Fame
How much of a factor is age in improving your game? If you are middle age and doing the same amount of practicing/drills/technique change as someone in their 30s, does your age limit how much better you can get no matter the effort? Will the younger guy have a higher ceiling and more rapid development just based on age? Please factor out movement, quickness and fitness, I'm asking purely from a technique viewpoint.
Fitness and quickness is a huge and underrated aspect of tennis improvement
 

Slicerman

Professional
Regarding improvement of technique, I think a big factor to how quickly you improve is how much bad technique/habits you need to UNLEARN first before you start replacing it with proper techniques.
This is what I like about training new players regardless of age. They're a new slate or blank canvas, and can be put on the right track with less resistance than someone who has been using unorthodox strokes for over a decade
Of course technique is only one side of the entire game. Physicality and competitive mindset is another story.
 

johnmccabe

Hall of Fame
Fitness and quickness is a huge and underrated aspect of tennis improvement
Yes. There is a flip side too. when I compare myself with older better players, they use energy way more efficiently and it looks like they are fitter and quicker. Learning to move the right way at the right time on court makes life so much easier.
 
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johnmccabe

Hall of Fame
Love of the game.

Not everything is about the competition. This goes right into the argument of the ball going in and out. If you can’t put a ball in due to technique, then should someone quit trying because it’s not worth it? On the flip side, if someone have great fitness but can’t put together their movement or have poor hand-eye, do you think practicing more of the same crap will make them better?

Obliviously one will get better sooner than the other, but that doesn’t mean they can’t improve.
You’re pointing out the exact roadblock that holds people back, the idea that it’s all or nothing.
I'm way more interested in learning improving than competitions. If a coach can bring me to 5.0 level, but I won't be allowed to play any USTA rest of my life, it will be such an no brainier to me. Rec tournament championship doesn't mean much to me.
 

WYK

Hall of Fame
What I find stands in the way the most when coaching adults vs kids is stubbornness.
'It's hard'
'I have been doing it this way since...'
'I was taught this way by...'
'I am not used to...'
'It feels odd'
'I'm not comfortable'
'I just want to practice forehands(serves, volleys, or whatever it is to keep from practicing what I said they need to concentrate on)...'
'But I need to practice my first serve, too'
'But I am not any good at...'
'I don't have time to practice this...'
'I just want to play tennis'
etc etc.
These are words no kid has ever said to me whilst coaching them.
 

LocNetMonster

Professional
I’ve been teaching adults for a while now, couple of input I have on this topic…

While I agree quickness and fitness can be left off the table, movement can’t…it’s part of the technique. Proper racket delivery requires spacing and movement. Therefore if you can’t get into proper position, you’ll be out of form.

Having said that, the biggest barrier for adults IMO comes down to 1 thing…they’re not willing to miss to learn new technique. They gauge and judge (key word here) success on the technique based on whether the ball goes in, instead of whether they delivered the technique. In doing so, they hold back with the execution and never make the actual change because…you guessed it…they don’t trust it. The adults who actually improves stays open-minded about the outcome and focuses on the execution.
^^^^
THIS!
 

user92626

G.O.A.T.
Learning technique isn't really physical though, it's mental. You come up with better ideas of how to do things. It's like solving a puzzle, and how well you've solved it determines how good you'll be.
Is that how TT people got good at tennis?

Just sit chat & come up with bettter ideas!?
 

sureshs

Bionic Poster
After over a decade of frying pan serving, my wife finally asked me to teach her the pronating serve.
Hopefully it doesn't take a decade to adjust to the new serve. The immediate problem is she will be worse off than before.

Many 4.0 women are doing perfectly well with a frying pan grip.
 

Icsa

Professional
Regarding improvement of technique, I think a big factor to how quickly you improve is how much bad technique/habits you need to UNLEARN first before you start replacing it with proper techniques.
This is what I like about training new players regardless of age. They're a new slate or blank canvas, and can be put on the right track with less resistance than someone who has been using unorthodox strokes for over a decade
Of course technique is only one side of the entire game. Physicality and competitive mindset is another story.
Indeed, unlearning is harder than learning something for the first time. Unlearning is especially hard when the bad technique is already imprinted in the "muscle memory".
 

matterer

Semi-Pro
Of course you aren't necessarily going to improve with thought. Your hypothesis has to be correct. But you aren't going to have an epiphany if you aren't putting thought into what you're doing.
 
How much of a factor is age in improving your game? If you are middle age and doing the same amount of practicing/drills/technique change as someone in their 30s, does your age limit how much better you can get no matter the effort? Will the younger guy have a higher ceiling and more rapid development just based on age? Please factor out movement, quickness and fitness, I'm asking purely from a technique viewpoint.
A lot depends on athleticism and visual acuity and depth perception. As these decrease with age, if you play younger players (of similar caliber), you may lose as your edge in these areas is less.

You can't learn well if you have poor body mechanics/body sense.
You can't learn well if you cannot see the ball well to move. Yes, vision and then footwork is the most important.
Lastly, you can't learn well if you cannot remember. 10,000 (good) reps to hone in on intuitive movements.

I can tell you that I forget more about tennis mechanics and how to hit well as I play more doubles matches vs. hitting with a ball machine. I can hone in on what I need to do with a ball machine. I cannot in the middle of matches. Therefore, I think "hitting" and practicing are key before playing a lot of matches. Many times after a good hitting/ball machine session, I take that into matches and know what I need to do for shots I have trouble with.
 
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