Tennis improvement and age

TennisCJC

Legend
I maybe hit a tennis ball a handful of times as a teenager but started playing regularly around 20 years old give or take a year. I am now 66 so over 46 years of playing. I think I improved the most in the first 10 years and went from beginner to winning USTA 4.5 player and played 1 year at USTA 5.0 level but only won about 25% of the matches. I think I maintained my level until around 40-45 years old and then I think my level dropped a bit. I felt like my technique improved until around 60 years old but my speed, reflexes, stamina and power started decreasing around 50 years old. In the first 10 years, I played a lot of tennis - probably average 6 days a week on court for 10 months of the year and 3 or 4 days on court in the winter.

I think if you were pretty high level when you where young - say under 35, it is more difficult to improve. But, if you are a beginner at 50, then you can probably improve to around 60.

At 66, I still work on technique and improving but honestly, it is more about maintaining now. I think my athleticism dropped in my early 60s even though I work a lot on staying reasonably fit. I can usually hold my own against guys my age and even much younger players but I lose to young guys in singles now that I would have beaten regularly 10 years ago.
 

matterer

Semi-Pro
What I find stands in the way the most when coaching adults vs kids is stubbornness.
'It's hard'
'I have been doing it this way since...'
'I was taught this way by...'
'I am not used to...'
'It feels odd'
'I'm not comfortable'
'I just want to practice forehands(serves, volleys, or whatever it is to keep from practicing what I said they need to concentrate on)...'
'But I need to practice my first serve, too'
'But I am not any good at...'
'I don't have time to practice this...'
'I just want to play tennis'
etc etc.
These are words no kid has ever said to me whilst coaching them.
I noticed that when I was a kid
 

nyta2

Legend
How much of a factor is age in improving your game? If you are middle age and doing the same amount of practicing/drills/technique change as someone in their 30s, does your age limit how much better you can get no matter the effort? Will the younger guy have a higher ceiling and more rapid development just based on age? Please factor out movement, quickness and fitness, I'm asking purely from a technique viewpoint.
huge.
imo it's more about the recovery time, and being able to put more quality reps (eg. how many balls you can hit in an hour, how many balls on the run can you hit in an hour, etc...)

then if you factor in the typical challenges of a 30-something (weight gain, injuries, lack of time to practice due to fam/work responsibilities (time&money), etc...) becomes even harder to squeeze in practice times, lessons, etc.. (just the logistics alone can be a challenge - eg. hitting time with similar level player/practice mindset)... vs. a kid that typically will join an after school clinic witha bunch of like minded/similar level kids, with a coach, tourney on weekends, etc...).

i've tried hunting for a similar environment for adults, but it's a tough commitment to find (for me) even a single court of guys commmitted to doing it once a week, much less 5d/w.
 
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user92626

G.O.A.T.
What I find stands in the way the most when coaching adults vs kids is stubbornness.
'It's hard'
'I have been doing it this way since...'
'I was taught this way by...'
'I am not used to...'
'It feels odd'
'I'm not comfortable'
'I just want to practice forehands(serves, volleys, or whatever it is to keep from practicing what I said they need to concentrate on)...'
'But I need to practice my first serve, too'
'But I am not any good at...'
'I don't have time to practice this...'
'I just want to play tennis'
etc etc.
These are words no kid has ever said to me whilst coaching them.
This is why I think the prerequisite for adult coaching is respect & trust.

Coaching or giving tips on TT rarely works because of lack of trust, and thus respect.

Meaning, very very hard to take random faceless Joe Blow's advices seriously when he has never shown a slightest credential, eg a hitting, a demo of something.
 
Love of the game.

Not everything is about the competition. This goes right into the argument of the ball going in and out. If you can’t put a ball in due to technique, then should someone quit trying because it’s not worth it? On the flip side, if someone have great fitness but can’t put together their movement or have poor hand-eye, do you think practicing more of the same crap will make them better?

Obliviously one will get better sooner than the other, but that doesn’t mean they can’t improve.
You’re pointing out the exact roadblock that holds people back, the idea that it’s all or nothing.
Tennis is a competitive game. If you love it you love competition. If you are just hitting it may be fun, it may be good exercise but it is not the game of tennis. You may love running and hitting and even improving your skills but you are just practicing. When there are points alloted based on the tennis played that is actual tennis
 

johnmccabe

Hall of Fame
Tennis is a competitive game. If you love it you love competition. If you are just hitting it may be fun, it may be good exercise but it is not the game of tennis. You may love running and hitting and even improving your skills but you are just practicing. When there are points alloted based on the tennis played that is actual tennis
Those life-long 3.0-3.5 players without half decent footwork and swing mechanics competing for decades as if their pride and self-esteem depend on some rec league results, are not even close to the actual tennis either.
 
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user92626

G.O.A.T.
Tennis is a competitive game. If you love it you love competition. If you are just hitting it may be fun, it may be good exercise but it is not the game of tennis. You may love running and hitting and even improving your skills but you are just practicing. When there are points alloted based on the tennis played that is actual tennis
Those life-long 3.0-3.5 players without half decent footwork and swing mechanics competing for decades as if their pride and self-esteem depend on some rec league results, are not even close to the actual tennis either.



Recreational tennis, which is what we do, is an artificial activity, artificially constructed. You pick a level to play in and basically stay there for life. You don't really try or do anything more to go higher, but you certainly have time and resource for, but you just choose not to.

Likewise you're talking down to 3.5 people, people at higher level than you can be saying the same thing to you. That's just sad.
 
Those life-long 3.0-3.5 players without half decent footwork and swing mechanics competing for decades as if their pride and self-esteem depend on some rec league results, are not even close to the actual tennis either.
I have seen 1.0 and 2.0 and plenty of 3.0 and 3.5 players with more guts and grit than a lot of better players who stamp around and throw their racquets when their great serve isn't going in or their per slice forehand keeps finding the net. That may be tennis, but I prefer a poor player with heart too a boor with great skills.
 
Recreational tennis, which is what we do, is an artificial activity, artificially constructed. You pick a level to play in and basically stay there for life. You don't really try or do anything more to go higher, but you certainly have time and resource for, but you just choose not to.

Likewise you're talking down to 3.5 people, people at higher level than you can be saying the same thing to you. That's just sad.
Absolutely artificial. The entire game is. There is nothing natural about it. Alot of the guys I play with are actively improving. It is true of me that my high school tennis became my college tennis and then my adult tennis. The game is so different today that I am literally using different strokes and grips than younger people at my level. Im starting to learn the new improved skills and taking pride in my improvement. To some players above me my matches may look pathetic but alot of my local elite see the time and effort im putting in and are very chummy.
 

ubercat

Hall of Fame
Old age is sure bad for singles. For dubs it seems to matter less. I just came back after six months off and surgery for three hernias. All the skills were still there although the first two serves were hilarious I missed the ball on the first one and then put it over the fence on the second one. After that I just hit low slice serves until I played my way back in and couldn't use some power again. The reverse pivot footwork I taught myself over covid seems to be extremely reliable on the forehand and completely MIA on the backhand

But I m a proud junk baller so don't really need the power. I do seem to be able to naturally take the ball early and block back balls at my feet no technique involved.
 
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Yes but singles is great for old age!
During covid I was running 15 miles a week. Then I was hospitalized with Hep A. Whilst waiting for my liver to start functioning again a scan turned up a small tumor on my left kidney. So, after 3 months mostly doing very little, I had the cancer removed and recovered from that for a month.
While still in hospital I signed up for a UTR Flex league in my area. I was terrible. Even if I was the better player, my lack of conditioning tanked every match and my legs would hurt for a week afterward. Now I'm playing hard 3 days some weeks and practicing at lower intensity on my off days. In matches, I finally have decent stamina for 2 hour outings.
Today, late in a match, I was still running down lobs and crushing shots to all parts of the court. And my legs still feel ok!
 

johnmccabe

Hall of Fame
I have seen 1.0 and 2.0 and plenty of 3.0 and 3.5 players with more guts and grit than a lot of better players who stamp around and throw their racquets when their great serve isn't going in or their per slice forehand keeps finding the net. That may be tennis, but I prefer a poor player with heart too a boor with great skills.
hyping one aspect over another aspect is not a true understanding of the whole game. In the end, learning, improving, competing, fitness, everything matters. Low skill players fighting in a regional match for 3.5 hrs moonball battle is as pathetic as Kygrios couldn't win a slam with top talent. I've seen too many ugly things in recreational tennis matches coming from bad players taking it too seriously.

They are all just parts of tennis. Why pick one over the other aspect. Everything has to be improved through hard work, to experience a truly complete tennis.
 

ballmachineguy

Hall of Fame
This is why I think the prerequisite for adult coaching is respect & trust.

Coaching or giving tips on TT rarely works because of lack of trust, and thus respect.

Meaning, very very hard to take random faceless Joe Blow's advices seriously when he has never shown a slightest credential, eg a hitting, a demo of something.
What about the people that say they have credentials and make bad videos that prove they don’t know what they are talking about, i.e., 95% of coaching videos?
 

user92626

G.O.A.T.
What about the people that say they have credentials and make bad videos that prove they don’t know what they are talking about, i.e., 95% of coaching videos?
yeah...they ain't good, either.


Anyhoo, I have kinda moved past this subject.

I played several sets this week and I lost in ways that I don't think I deserve.

Back to the drawing table.
 

user92626

G.O.A.T.
Yes but singles is great for old age!
During covid I was running 15 miles a week. Then I was hospitalized with Hep A. Whilst waiting for my liver to start functioning again a scan turned up a small tumor on my left kidney. So, after 3 months mostly doing very little, I had the cancer removed and recovered from that for a month.
While still in hospital I signed up for a UTR Flex league in my area. I was terrible. Even if I was the better player, my lack of conditioning tanked every match and my legs would hurt for a week afterward. Now I'm playing hard 3 days some weeks and practicing at lower intensity on my off days. In matches, I finally have decent stamina for 2 hour outings.
Today, late in a match, I was still running down lobs and crushing shots to all parts of the court. And my legs still feel ok!
Can I ask what your age range is? You sound young and full of energy.

I agree with you about "singles is great for old age!" But that's the physical part and not the mental part. I find that older people are really guarding their ego. They would be afraid of bruising their ego from losing.

I know several men who are willing to rally hard, run hard as if they are playing points but they avoid singles completely.
 
Can I ask what your age range is? You sound young and full of energy.

I agree with you about "singles is great for old age!" But that's the physical part and not the mental part. I find that older people are really guarding their ego. They would be afraid of bruising their ego from losing.

I know several men who are willing to rally hard, run hard as if they are playing points but they avoid singles completely.
I am 65. My winter haven last year was a club with two indoor courts and very active league play mostly doubles, I guess to keep the expense down. During the temperate months I play outside, mostly singles. I have friends I can schedule with, some who beat me regularly and some who I usually beat. Lately I have been able to manage 3 singles matches per week and a couple of easy practice days working on form and technique. Im trying to revamp my game by hitting a heavier ball and shortening rallies. I also have recently switched from Eastern to Conti grip on serve and I'm trying to go from Eastern to semi western on forehand. Im starting to best the guys who were beating me. It is very satisfying. I will always be on the lookout for guys who beat me and still want to play me. That challenge helps me dig deeper for places to improve.
 

basil J

Hall of Fame
At 62 and still very fit, still playing mostly singles against guys 10-30 years my junior, I find that working on footwork more and more as I get older pays huge dividends. Working on mechanics and technique is always good, but if you can't get into position, recover and prepare/anticipate the next shot, technique alone does not get it done. Especially now that drop shots have really become go to shots for a lot of players, if you can't recover and get to a ball, it is very deflating as a player.
 
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user92626

G.O.A.T.
At 62 and still very fit, still playing mostly singles against guys 10-30 years my junior, I find that working on footwork more and more as I get older pays huge dividends. Working on mechanics and technique is always good, but if you can't get into position, recover and prepare/anticipate the next shop, technique alone does not get it done. Especially now that drop shots have really become go to shots for a lot of players, if you can't recover and get to a ball, it is very deflating as a player.
(bolded part) Very accurate.

When we miss a FH or a BH, we still feel there's hope for a fix.

Inability to get to a ball simply reminds us of our declining being.
 

socallefty

G.O.A.T.
How much of a factor is age in improving your game? If you are middle age and doing the same amount of practicing/drills/technique change as someone in their 30s, does your age limit how much better you can get no matter the effort? Will the younger guy have a higher ceiling and more rapid development just based on age? Please factor out movement, quickness and fitness, I'm asking purely from a technique viewpoint.
Reality is that younger beginners will typically be in better shape than the majority of senior beginners. But assuming that you are a physically fit older adult, then emotional and mental maturity of adopting a proper learning process and then following it is the key to success. This matters more than the age on your birth certificate - are you still a good ‘learner’?

Taking weekly 1-1 lessons with a good coach, doing group drills regularly with others of similar skill level, doing 1-1 practices with purposeful drills against other friends of similar/better level are the keys to improving fast and developing a solid foundation during the first few years of learning tennis. You have to play 4-7 times a week with some matches thrown in to learn how to win. Basically you replicate the process of how juniors learn tennis.

Typically the only way to replicate this is if you join a tennis club and have access to good coaches, group drills and a long member list of players of varying levels. If you are a committed beginner, I would suggest diving in full steam by joining a tennis club from the start. The coaches who lurk around public courts trying to get adult students are rarely the ones who can put an adult through a long-term development program. They also will rarely introduce you to others you can hit and practice purposefully with because they are afraid you will stop taking lessons. If you are on a budget for both money and/or time, then that is going to limit your ceiling for advancement rather than age.
 

basil J

Hall of Fame
(bolded part) Very accurate.

When we miss a FH or a BH, we still feel there's hope for a fix.

Inability to get to a ball simply reminds us of our declining being.
Yes and no. Often times missed FH or BH's are due to poor footwork or positioning. We all age and start to encounter reduction in performance, but we have all played the guy that looks out of shape, but somehow gets every ball back and lures into hitting errors or going for outright winners. Their foot work may not be great, but their anticipation and understanding of the court geometry is often excellent. Footwork drills are hard and exhausting, but they pay dividends during competitive play, for sure at any age.
 

onehandbh

G.O.A.T.
How many juniors do you see reach 6.0?
My physics teacher used to say there is no such thing as a dumb question but there are dumb answers.
I mostly agree with your physics teacher with the caveat that one should seek/ try to derive or find the answer themselves first before asking a question.

There are also dumb people who never ask questions because they think they know it all.
 
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ubercat

Hall of Fame
Oh Danny boy. Don't underestimate muscle memory and years of low cunning. Admittedly it was dubs but me and my partner just beat a 25 year old who had a huge serve and all the shots and a very solid and Tricky old guy after me having six months off tennis and Zero practice. And I would say as old fart players go I am below average
 
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