Tennis in the Second Golden Age of Sports

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Dan L

Professional
#1
The 1920's is generally referred to as the Golden Age of Sports, the age of Tilden, Babe Ruth, Lou Gehrig, Bobby Jones, Walter Hagen, Jack Dempsey and Gene Tunney, Eric Liddell.

However, the Chicago Tribune has designated the period 1958-64 as the Golden Age of Chicago Sports.

I would suggest that this latter period should rightfully be designated as the true Golden Age of Sport, a time when every sport appeared to reach a pinnacle of talent and level of play. I would extend the range to include the 1956 Olympics, which featured a number of peak achievements.

Listed below is a compilation of peak performers and performances which give strength to this claim. I will add video clips to demonstrate each designation.

1956/60/64 Olympics: Toni Seiler, Murray Rose, John Konrads, Dawn Fraser, Rafer Johnson

Tennis: Gonzales, Hoad, Sedgman, Laver, Rosewall, Trabert, Segura,Emerson, Santana

Football : 1958 NFL Championship game: Colts df. Giants, Green Bay Packers team of early sixties

Baseball: Yankees teams of early sixties

Hockey: Montreal Canadiens of late fifties, Toronto Maple Leafs of early sixties

Basketball: Celtics

Golf: Palmer, Nicklaus, Player (The Big Three)

Soccer: Brazilian team of 1958, 1962

Boxing: Ali

Cricket: Garfield Sobers

Curling: Richardson rink

Formula One: Jim Clark, Graham Hill

Chess: Tal, Botvinnik, Petrosian

These are merely the summit of the age, there are many more, especially the athletic stars of the above team sports.

The coincidence of these giants of sport at the same time makes this era the summit of sporting achievement.
 
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pc1

G.O.A.T.
#2
The 1920's is generally referred to as the Golden Age of Sports, the age of Tilden, Babe Ruth, Lou Gehrig, Bobby Jones, Walter Hagen, Jack Dempsey and Gene Tunney, Eric Liddell.

However, the Chicago Tribune has designated the period 1958-64 as the Golden Age of Chicago Sports.

I would suggest that this latter period should rightfully be designated as the true Golden Age of Sport, a time when every sport appeared to reach a pinnacle of talent and level of play. I would extend the range to include the 1956 Olympics, which featured a number of peak achievements.

Listed below is a compilation of peak performers and performances which give strength to this claim. I will add video clips to demonstrate each designation.

1956/60/64 Olympics: Toni Seiler, Murray Rose, John Konrads, Dawn Fraser, Rafer Johnson

Tennis: Gonzales, Hoad, Sedgman, Laver, Rosewall, Trabert, Segura,Emerson, Santana

Football : 1958 NFL Championship game: Colts df. Giants, Green Bay Packers team of early sixties

Baseball: Yankees teams of early sixties

Hockey: Montreal Canadiens of late fifties, Toronto Maple Leafs of early sixties

Basketball: Celtics

Golf: Palmer, Nicklaus, Player (The Big Three)

Soccer: Brazilian team of 1958, 1962

Boxing: Ali

Cricket: Garfield Sobers

Curling: Richardson rink

These are merely the summit of the age, there are many more, especially the athletic stars of the above team sports.

The coincidence of these giants of sport at the same time makes this era the summit of sporting achievement.
Dan, how about I just mention the 1960s in general just to add more choices.
Baseball-1961 Yankees, Dodgers with Koufax, 1969 Mets
Basketball-The great Celtic Teams, 1966-67 76ers, 1969-70 Knicks
Football-1962 Packers, 1963 Bears, 1968 Jets, 1969 Chiefs
Hockey-Great Montreal Canadiens teams, the Bobby Orr Bruins, Toronto Maple Leafs
Chess-Tal, Botvinnik, Petrosian, Spassky, Fischer
Boxing-Ali, Liston
Tennis-Gonzalez, Laver, Rosewall
 
#3
70´s: Pele,Beckenbauer,Cruyff,Ali,Leonard,Duran,Andretti,Lauda,Mercky,Hinault,Bobby Fisher,Klammer,Stenmark,Staubach,Jabbar,Robertson,Erving,Moses, the runner,Coe,Cobb,Rose, Spitz,Vorshov,Alexeiev,Comaneci,Evert,Court,Borg,Mac,Laver,Rosewall,Connors,Nastase,young Maradona,Watson,Player,Nicklaus, Young Sevvy,Koch,Ender,Mennea...shall I keep on going?
 

Dan L

Professional
#4
Dan, how about I just mention the 1960s in general just to add more choices.
Baseball-1961 Yankees, Dodgers with Koufax, 1969 Mets
Basketball-The great Celtic Teams, 1966-67 76ers, 1969-70 Knicks
Football-1962 Packers, 1963 Bears, 1968 Jets, 1969 Chiefs
Hockey-Great Montreal Canadiens teams, the Bobby Orr Bruins, Toronto Maple Leafs
Chess-Tal, Botvinnik, Petrosian, Spassky, Fischer
Boxing-Ali, Liston
Tennis-Gonzalez, Laver, Rosewall
Yes, we could advance into the last half of the sixties, and get great stars like Gale Sayers or Bobby Orr, but I was thinking of a more restricted range of years, about 8 years. If we push forward into the sixties, we lose the late fifties.

With the boundary at 1964, we could still include the 1963 Dodgers with Koufax, the 1963 Bears (George Halas' finest hour), Chess still gets Tal, Botvinnik, Petrosian, Boxing still gets Ali and Liston, you get a much stronger tennis field by including the late fifties.

Sorry, I don't think that the Bobby Orr Bruins, in spite of their great skill, equal the 1956-60 Montreal teams, or the 1962-67 Toronto teams. Not enough cups. And even the perennial bridesmaids, the Bobby Hull Chicago clubs, are probably the equal of those Bruin teams.

Golf probably peaked in the early sixties, Palmer showing that golf could actually be an exciting sport.

The '68-9 Jets and Chiefs were one-off champs, not like the Packers or Colts.

I will add some clips as illustrations...sometimes we forget just how powerful the peak teams were.
 
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Dan L

Professional
#5
70´s: Pele,Beckenbauer,Cruyff,Ali,Leonard,Duran,Andretti,Lauda,Mercky,Hinault,Bobby Fisher,Klammer,Stenmark,Staubach,Jabbar,Robertson,Erving,Moses, the runner,Coe,Cobb,Rose, Spitz,Vorshov,Alexeiev,Comaneci,Evert,Court,Borg,Mac,Laver,Rosewall,Connors,Nastase,young Maradona,Watson,Player,Nicklaus, Young Sevvy,Koch,Ender,Mennea...shall I keep on going?
The seventies gave us interesting tennis, but other sports seemed to decline relative to the early sixties/late fifties, especially team sports.

Pele sees his prime in that earlier period, and the 1958/62 Brazil club is probably the best ever.
Sorry, I forgot the great auto racers of the earlier period, Clark and Hill the tops ever, Clark the peak in 1963.
 
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pc1

G.O.A.T.
#6
Yes, we could advance into the last half of the sixties, and get great stars like Gale Sayers or Bobby Orr, but I was thinking of a more restricted range of years, about 8 years. If we push forward into the sixties, we lose the late fifties.

With the boundary at 1964, we could still include the 1963 Dodgers with Koufax, the 1963 Bears (George Halas' finest hour), Chess still gets Tal, Botvinnik, Petrosian, Boxing still gets Ali and Liston, you get a much stronger tennis field by including the late fifties.

Sorry, I don't think that the Bobby Orr Bruins, in spite of their great skill, equal the 1956-60 Montreal teams, or the 1962-67 Toronto teams. Not enough cups. And even the perennial bridesmaids, the Bobby Hull Chicago clubs, are probably the equal of those Bruin teams.

Golf probably peaked in the early sixties, Palmer showing that golf could actually be an exciting sport.

The '68-9 Jets and Chiefs were one-off champs, not like the Packers or Colts.

I will add some clips as illustrations...sometimes we forget just how powerful the peak teams were.
A couple of minor disagreements Dan. The Bobby Orr Bruins later (1970-1971 season) had 121 points in a season and overwhelmed the opposition. The next year they won the Stanley Cup and had a regular season of only 119 point. I do believe they were superior to the Maple Leafs but inferior to the Canadians you mentioned.

The 1968 Jet were of course a one time champion but they were famous from giving credibility to the old AFL. The 1969 Chiefs have been called by some the most talented team ever and perhaps the best team in AFL history. They were AFL Champions also in 1962. They had a host of stars like Dawson, Lanier, Culp, Tyrer, Budde, Garrett, Taylor, Buchanan, Bell, Stenerud and many are in the Hall of Fame.

Okay the boundaries are left at 1964. The reason I was not crazy about 1964 was they I never felt any of the teams in baseball was really the strong...including the 1961 Yankees who many called the most overrated team in history. No depth and the pitching staff wasn't that good. It was Ford and nobodies.
 

Dan L

Professional
#8
A couple of minor disagreements Dan. The Bobby Orr Bruins later (1970-1971 season) had 121 points in a season and overwhelmed the opposition. The next year they won the Stanley Cup and had a regular season of only 119 point. I do believe they were superior to the Maple Leafs but inferior to the Canadians you mentioned.

The 1968 Jet were of course a one time champion but they were famous from giving credibility to the old AFL. The 1969 Chiefs have been called by some the most talented team ever and perhaps the best team in AFL history. They were AFL Champions also in 1962. They had a host of stars like Dawson, Lanier, Culp, Tyrer, Budde, Garrett, Taylor, Buchanan, Bell, Stenerud and many are in the Hall of Fame.

Okay the boundaries are left at 1964. The reason I was not crazy about 1964 was they I never felt any of the teams in baseball was really the strong...including the 1961 Yankees who many called the most overrated team in history. No depth and the pitching staff wasn't that good. It was Ford and nobodies.
I think we disagree on hockey.
Sure, the 1968-74 Bruins had great offence, massively so after the expansion of 1968. But they lost to a makeshift Montreal team in 1968, 1969, 1971, and the Montrealers won another cup in 1973. That's four cups for Montreal in the age of Orr/Esposito. Only two cups for Boston. It would have to be the other way around to get my nod for the Bruins as an all-time great team.

Similarly, the 1960-71 Chicago Blackhawks had an awesome offensive squad, led by Hull, Mikita, Wharram, Esposito, Hodge, Maki, Pilote, Stapleton, they finished first on the season in 1967 by a country mile...but the Toronto club upset them in the postseason in 1962 and 1967, and won four cups to the Chicago one, due to overwhelming defensive ability.

I will post clips on this.

The 1968-9 Jets and Chiefs won Super Bowls, but this was before the Super Bowl was an official game, it was really an exhibition match at that time, and the real goal of the NFL clubs was the NFL championship. In 1970, Minnesota pummeled the Chiefs in the regular season.

The 1961 Yankees featured an unparalleled batting lineup, and, here we disagree, a great pitching staff for two seasons, 1961, 1962. Injuries to pitchers after 1962 weakened the club.
 

Dan L

Professional
#11
How could I forget Agostini and Barry Sheene?
And Duncan Edwards
Agostini and Sheene were mostly seventies athletes, but Duncan Edwards was a late-fifties soccer star, killed in 1958.
That hurt the England team, as the striker Taylor was also killed in the same plane crash.
 
#12
Agostini and Sheene were mostly seventies athletes, but Duncan Edwards was a late-fifties soccer star, killed in 1958.
That hurt the England team, as the striker Taylor was also killed in the same plane crash.
My bad
Meant Gareth Edwards
 

pc1

G.O.A.T.
#13
I think we disagree on hockey.
Sure, the 1968-74 Bruins had great offence, massively so after the expansion of 1968. But they lost to a makeshift Montreal team in 1968, 1969, 1971, and the Montrealers won another cup in 1973. That's four cups for Montreal in the age of Orr/Esposito. Only two cups for Boston. It would have to be the other way around to get my nod for the Bruins as an all-time great team.

Similarly, the 1960-71 Chicago Blackhawks had an awesome offensive squad, led by Hull, Mikita, Wharram, Esposito, Hodge, Maki, Pilote, Stapleton, they finished first on the season in 1967 by a country mile...but the Toronto club upset them in the postseason in 1962 and 1967, and won four cups to the Chicago one, due to overwhelming defensive ability.

I will post clips on this.

The 1968-9 Jets and Chiefs won Super Bowls, but this was before the Super Bowl was an official game, it was really an exhibition match at that time, and the real goal of the NFL clubs was the NFL championship. In 1970, Minnesota pummeled the Chiefs in the regular season.

The 1961 Yankees featured an unparalleled batting lineup, and, here we disagree, a great pitching staff for two seasons, 1961, 1962. Injuries to pitchers after 1962 weakened the club.
Dan, it's not just the opinion of myself about the 1961 New York Yankees but many sabermetrics experts like the great Bill James. I don't mind the disagreement about the Bobby Orr Boston Bruins but to say the Super Bowls won by the Jets and Chiefs were exhibitions is downright silly Dan.

I am very familiar with the Yankees of 1961. Bobby Richardson was a great fielding no-hit second baseman never walked. Casey Stengel often batted him ninth which even the pitcher was there. Boyer was a great fielder but wasn't a great hitter. Berra in left was over the hill and was essentially a statue in left. They had no speed.

To get back on topic the years 1955 to 1964 had several players often called in those days the GOAT. They were Gonzalez, Hoad and Laver. Not bad.
 
#14
In which other decade you got 3 GOAT CANDIDATES like Pele, Cruyff and Maradona?
Not to mention Beckenbauer, Best, Moore, Platini, Rivera,Muller, Zico, Riva, Keegan?
Two of the top five ever like Laver and Borg?
The quatour of Nicklaus, Watson, Player and Sevy?
Chamberlain, OscarR. andJabbar ?
 

Dan L

Professional
#15
Dan, it's not just the opinion of myself about the 1961 New York Yankees but many sabermetrics experts like the great Bill James. I don't mind the disagreement about the Bobby Orr Boston Bruins but to say the Super Bowls won by the Jets and Chiefs were exhibitions is downright silly Dan.

I am very familiar with the Yankees of 1961. Bobby Richardson was a great fielding no-hit second baseman never walked. Casey Stengel often batted him ninth which even the pitcher was there. Boyer was a great fielder but wasn't a great hitter. Berra in left was over the hill and was essentially a statue in left. They had no speed.

To get back on topic the years 1955 to 1964 had several players often called in those days the GOAT. They were Gonzalez, Hoad and Laver. Not bad.
The Yankees 1961-2 Murderer's Row included Mantle, Maris, Howard, Skowron, Blanchard, Tresh, Kubeck, Berra also got some timely at-bats.
Defence was awesome, Mantle, Maris, Boyer, Richardson, Kubeck...great defence.
 

Dan L

Professional
#16
In which other decade you got 3 GOAT CANDIDATES like Pele, Cruyff and Maradona?
Not to mention Beckenbauer, Best, Moore, Platini, Rivera,Muller, Zico, Riva, Keegan?
Two of the top five ever like Laver and Borg?
The quatour of Nicklaus, Watson, Player and Sevy?
Chamberlain, OscarR. andJabbar ?
Laver gets my third spot all-time, Borg maybe seven or eight.

The Big Three of the early sixties Palmer, Nicklaus, Player had more tournament wins than any other trio, and supported by Casper, Littler, and other greats.

Chamberlain scored a hundred in 1962.
 
#17
The 60s to 70s was the Evolution from a more amateur apporach (even in pro sports) to the commercialized Sport we have today. The big money camein in the early 70s with Alis megafights. It was caused by tv (colour and satellite tv since mid 60s), promotion, marketing, and globalisation of pro sports). Many athletes of the 50s and 60s couldn't cope with new laws of pro sports, and had alcohol problems and/or went broke due to bad financial management (like Gonzalez, Hoad, many boxers, Garrincha, Best etc.). Even Ali was stretched out to the last by bad promoters. The 70s had the problem of burnourt and doping, mainly due to the new media pressure.
 
#18
I know Lombardi Packers were the first NFL dinasty. .
but we got two in the 70's:Cowboys and Steelers.Their rivalry lifted NFL like no other did or will
 

pc1

G.O.A.T.
#20
The Yankees 1961-2 Murderer's Row included Mantle, Maris, Howard, Skowron, Blanchard, Tresh, Kubeck, Berra also got some timely at-bats.
Defence was awesome, Mantle, Maris, Boyer, Richardson, Kubeck...great defence.
They weren't a bad team Dan. Just overrated comparatively when some say they were the greatest team ever. Too many weaknesses to say that. It's like when one person used to say Rosewall was the GOAT. He wasn't bad and frankly was great but not the GOAT. If you examine the record carefully he is great but not the GOAT.
 
N

Nathaniel_Near

Guest
#21
I thought the 1920s was called the the Golden Age of USA Sport. But to them, USA is the world, so it was called the Golden Age of Sports.
 

Dan L

Professional
#23
I know Lombardi Packers were the first NFL dinasty. .
but we got two in the 70's:Cowboys and Steelers.Their rivalry lifted NFL like no other did or will
The Steelers were great, but I would still give the edge to the Packers of the early sixties...I think the Colts of the late fifties equalled the Steelers.
 

pc1

G.O.A.T.
#24
The Steelers were great, but I would still give the edge to the Packers of the early sixties...I think the Colts of the late fifties equalled the Steelers.
Well the Colts of the 1950's were 9-3 both years they won. The 1962 Packers were magnificent with a 13-1 record with 415 points scored and only 148 points against. Arguably the 1962 Packers are the greatest team of all time.

Ironically many of the Steelers felt their best team was the 1976 team which started at 1-4 but won their last nine games in awe-inspiring fashion with five shutouts. They won their first game in the playoffs by crushing the excellent Baltimore Colts team by a score of 40 to 14 but had both their running backs injured. ESPN named the 1976 Steelers as the best defense in NFL history in 2007 I believe. Incidentally Dan notice that the 1969 Chiefs were on that list of top ten defenses. That Chiefs team had a great defense.
http://espn.go.com/page2/s/list/bestNFLdefense.html

There was an article by Raymond Lee a few years ago that actually had the 1974 Steelers as the best Steeler defense. It makes sense because the Steelers that year had an awful offense with a lot of turnovers. Despite that the defense held strong and they won the Super Bowl.
http://profootballresearchers.com/archives/Website_Files/Coffin_Corner/23-02-882.pdf
 
#25
Well the Colts of the 1950's were 9-3 both years they won. The 1962 Packers were magnificent with a 13-1 record with 415 points scored and only 148 points against. Arguably the 1962 Packers are the greatest team of all time.

Ironically many of the Steelers felt their best team was the 1976 team which started at 1-4 but won their last nine games in awe-inspiring fashion with five shutouts. They won their first game in the playoffs by crushing the excellent Baltimore Colts team by a score of 40 to 14 but had both their running backs injured. ESPN named the 1976 Steelers as the best defense in NFL history in 2007 I believe. Incidentally Dan notice that the 1969 Chiefs were on that list of top ten defenses. That Chiefs team had a great defense.
http://espn.go.com/page2/s/list/bestNFLdefense.html

There was an article by Raymond Lee a few years ago that actually had the 1974 Steelers as the best Steeler defense. It makes sense because the Steelers that year had an awful offense with a lot of turnovers. Despite that the defense held strong and they won the Super Bowl.
http://profootballresearchers.com/archives/Website_Files/Coffin_Corner/23-02-882.pdf
Great you brought back memoirs of that legendary squad
 

pc1

G.O.A.T.
#26
Great you brought back memoirs of that legendary squad
I forgot to mention that the 1976 Steeler were called by many their best team despite their failure to win the Super Bowl. The team was great. They had some injuries prior to the AFL Championship game that may have prevented them from beating the Raiders.
 
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pc1

G.O.A.T.
#27
I thought the 1920s was called the the Golden Age of USA Sport. But to them, USA is the world, so it was called the Golden Age of Sports.
Well in the 1920s with Bill Tilden in the game in tennis with Cochet, Lacoste, Borotra, Johnston, Vinnie Richards, Dick Williams, Paterson it was a Golden Age (maybe) in tennis too.

Personally I prefer 1950s for tennis with Kramer, Gonzalez, Riggs, Hoad, Segura, Sedgman, Trabert, Cooper, Rosewall, Drobny, Kovacs. The early 1950's had peak Kramer, Gonzalez, Segura, Kovacs, Riggs, Parker and Budge. The later 1950's had Gonzalez, Segura, Rosewall, Sedgman, Hoad, Trabert with an old Kramer with arthritis filling in on occasion.
 

Dan L

Professional
#29
Well in the 1920s with Bill Tilden in the game in tennis with Cochet, Lacoste, Borotra, Johnston, Vinnie Richards, Dick Williams, Paterson it was a Golden Age (maybe) in tennis too.

Personally I prefer 1950s for tennis with Kramer, Gonzalez, Riggs, Hoad, Segura, Sedgman, Trabert, Cooper, Rosewall, Drobny, Kovacs. The early 1950's had peak Kramer, Gonzalez, Segura, Kovacs, Riggs, Parker and Budge. The later 1950's had Gonzalez, Segura, Rosewall, Sedgman, Hoad, Trabert with an old Kramer with arthritis filling in on occasion.
The trade-off is the early fifties for the early sixties....I rate Laver and Rosewall of the early sixties as giving more depth to the field than the early fifties, when Budge and Riggs were well past prime.
 

Dan L

Professional
#30
Hey, the Yankees had good pitching depth in 1961-62, look at this
for 1961

Ford 25-4, 3.21 ERA

Stafford 14-9, 2.68 ERA

Terry 16-3, 3.15 ERA

Arroyo 15-5, 2.19 ERA

Coates and Sheldon each won 11 games, and had great arms in those two years, and Bouton had a big year in 1962.


Here are the big boys in the 1961 World Series,

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kGQZSO8XthQ

Hitting? Richardson hit .302 with 8 HR and 59 RBI in 1962, Clete Boyer hit .272 with 18 HR and 68 RBI in 1962.

Tremendous depth, better than the 1927 version, which had only three pitchers of note.

Maris hit 61 homers in 1961, with a dead ball, worth about 90 homers today. Like Wilt Chamberlain scoring 100 points in 1962 against the Knicks, or Hoad winning 14 straight matches against Laver in 1963....unbelievable.
 
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#31
Hey, the Yankees had good pitching depth in 1961-62, look at this
for 1961

Ford 25-4, 3.21 ERA

Stafford 14-9, 2.68 ERA

Terry 16-3, 3.15 ERA

Arroyo 15-5, 2.19 ERA

Coates and Sheldon each won 11 games, and had great arms in those two years, and Bouton had a big year in 1962.


Here are the big boys in the 1961 World Series,

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kGQZSO8XthQ

Hitting? Richardson hit .302 with 8 HR and 59 RBI in 1962, Clete Boyer hit .272 with 18 HR and 68 RBI in 1962.

Tremendous depth, better than the 1927 version, which had only three pitchers of note.

Maris hit 61 homers in 1961, with a dead ball, worth about 90 homers today. Like Wilt Chamberlain scoring 100 points in 1962 against the Knicks, or Hoad winning 14 straight matches against Laver in 1963....unbelievable.
Dan, they were an excellent team. I never said they were not. I was saying that to call them the greatest ever, which some have is silly imo. For example, outside of Blanchard the bench was no great shakes. Richardson was never a great hitter. After 1962 he hit from a high of .267 to a low of .247 with few walks and little power. When Richardson did excel was that he was a fantastic defensive second baseman. Boyer was never a great average hitter but he did have some power but like Richardson he was a great defensive player. Hank Aaron, who was Boyer's teammate and friend couldn't imagine a better defensive third baseman than Clete Boyer. No doubt Richardson and Boyer prevented other teams from scoring runs.

Arroyo had one great year in 1961 and never did that much again.

Dan, you're preaching to the choir. I'm a Yankee fan. I know they were a tremendous team but subjectively in watching that team I cannot compare them to some other teams I consider even greater like the Reds of 1975-1976. In fact I think the 1977-1978 Yankees were a superior team overall.

If Maris didn't get hurt he would have been an easy Hall of Famer. He was great. By the way I thought Mantle was better in 1961 but Maris got the MVP.
 

Dan L

Professional
#32
Dan, they were an excellent team. I never said they were not. I was saying that to call them the greatest ever, which some have is silly imo. For example, outside of Blanchard the bench was no great shakes. Richardson was never a great hitter. After 1962 he hit from a high of .267 to a low of .247 with few walks and little power. When Richardson did excel was that he was a fantastic defensive second baseman. Boyer was never a great average hitter but he did have some power but like Richardson he was a great defensive player. Hank Aaron, who was Boyer's teammate and friend couldn't imagine a better defensive third baseman than Clete Boyer. No doubt Richardson and Boyer prevented other teams from scoring runs.

Arroyo had one great year in 1961 and never did that much again.

Dan, you're preaching to the choir. I'm a Yankee fan. I know they were a tremendous team but subjectively in watching that team I cannot compare them to some other teams I consider even greater like the Reds of 1975-1976. In fact I think the 1977-1978 Yankees were a superior team overall.

If Maris didn't get hurt he would have been an easy Hall of Famer. He was great. By the way I thought Mantle was better in 1961 but Maris got the MVP.
Arroyo was supplemented in 1962 by Bouton, who solidified the bullpen.
Reds of 1975-76? Not the greatest pitching staff, I would say below the Yankees of 1961-62...this Yankee staff is underrated because they got injured after 1962, had really only two great years. But each of the top guns had big moments, Terry pitching a monumental shutout in game 7 of 1962.
 

Dan L

Professional
#33
There were big record-setting achievements in the 1956-64 period which have never been surpassed in quality.

Maris hitting 61 home runs with a dead ball, Wilt Chamberlain scoring 100 points in a game against the Knicks, Hoad skunking Laver in 1963 on a tour of Australia 14 to 0. The stuff of legends.

Another record was the perfect performance in 1962 at the Prague World Figure Skating Championships, 7 perfect 10's for Don Jackson, who came from well behind, risked landing the first triple lutz jump ever to overtake the top spot. To this day, no performance has reached this level of perfection.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Alrsemq_mzQ

Prepare to be amazed, with Dick Button as your guide.
 
#34
Arroyo was supplemented in 1962 by Bouton, who solidified the bullpen.
Reds of 1975-76? Not the greatest pitching staff, I would say below the Yankees of 1961-62...this Yankee staff is underrated because they got injured after 1962, had really only two great years. But each of the top guns had big moments, Terry pitching a monumental shutout in game 7 of 1962.
Just out of curiosity Dan, forgetting about World Series, how would you compare the 1961-1962 Yankees to the great Orioles teams of 1969 and 1970. The Orioles won 217 in two years. Possibly the most well balanced team I've seen. Maybe the best defensive team I've seen with Brooks, Blair, Belanger among the best defensive players in history at their position. I've never seen a centerfield better than Blair an Brooks Robinson and Belanger were awesome defensively. I saw a stat recently that had Belanger second only to Ozzie Smith for defense.
http://www.baseball-reference.com/leaders/WAR_def_career.shtml
 

Dan L

Professional
#35
Just out of curiosity Dan, forgetting about World Series, how would you compare the 1961-1962 Yankees to the great Orioles teams of 1969 and 1970. The Orioles won 217 in two years. Possibly the most well balanced team I've seen. Maybe the best defensive team I've seen with Brooks, Blair, Belanger among the best defensive players in history at their position. I've never seen a centerfield better than Blair an Brooks Robinson and Belanger were awesome defensively. I saw a stat recently that had Belanger second only to Ozzie Smith for defense.
http://www.baseball-reference.com/leaders/WAR_def_career.shtml
Those Orioles teams show how important pitching and defence are in winning games.
Obviously, the 1961-2 Yankees had bigger bats.
 
#36
Player, Watson, Nicklaus, Sevy and Trevinho among other greats like Floyd, Norman, Jacklin and others
The 70 were pro golf peak
 

Dan L

Professional
#37
Player, Watson, Nicklaus, Sevy and Trevinho among other greats like Floyd, Norman, Jacklin and others
The 70 were pro golf peak
We forget about the monumental rivalry between Palmer and Nicklaus in the early sixties, you could feel the ground tremble when these two giants strode down the fairway...number one matchup all-time.
 

Dan L

Professional
#38
There were big record-setting achievements in the 1956-64 period which have never been surpassed in quality.

Maris hitting 61 home runs with a dead ball, Wilt Chamberlain scoring 100 points in a game against the Knicks, Hoad skunking Laver in 1963 on a tour of Australia 14 to 0. The stuff of legends.

Another record was the perfect performance in 1962 at the Prague World Figure Skating Championships, 7 perfect 10's for Don Jackson, who came from well behind, risked landing the first triple lutz jump ever to overtake the top spot. To this day, no performance has reached this level of perfection.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Alrsemq_mzQ

Prepare to be amazed, with Dick Button as your guide.
Here is that classic moment when the most impressive home run total for one season was accomplished,

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4hSNO_PhSnI

Maris had some grip on the bat, and developed arthritis in a few years.
 
#39
Those Orioles teams show how important pitching and defence are in winning games.
Obviously, the 1961-2 Yankees had bigger bats.
Orioles scored a lot of runs in those days. For the time with fewer runs being scored it may be closer than you think, relatively speaking. The 1969 Orioles scored 779 runs while giving up only 517 and the 1970 Orioles scored 792 runs while giving up only 574. In total the Orioles scored 1571 runs in those two years while giving up only 1091. That's an awesome run differential of 480 over two years. The Orioles averaged 785.5 runs scored in a season over those two years.

The 1961 Yankees scored 827 runs while giving up only 612. The 1962 Yankees scored 817 runs while giving up only 680. In total the Yankees scored 1644 runs while giving up only 1292 for an excellent run
differential of 352. The Yankees averaged 822 runs scored in a season over those two years.

Clearly the Yankees of that time had a superior offens
e.


Two of the best teams ever. If I had a time machine I would play them against each other. I would toss the early 1970's A's and Big Red Machine of 1975 in there also for the playoff of the best teams of the 1960's and 1970's.
 
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#40
We forget about the monumental rivalry between Palmer and Nicklaus in the early sixties, you could feel the ground tremble when these two giants strode down the fairway...number one matchup all-time.
I fully agree but the depth at the top and variety of styles and personalities in the 70 was amazing.Exactly like tennis and soccer
 

Dan L

Professional
#41
Orioles scored a lot of runs in those days. For the time with fewer runs being scored it may be closer than you think, relatively speaking. The 1969 Orioles scored 779 runs while giving up only 517 and the 1970 Orioles scored 792 runs while giving up only 574. In total the Orioles scored 1571 runs in those two years while giving up only 1091. That's an awesome run differential of 480 over two years. The Orioles averaged 785.5 runs scored in a season over those two years.

The 1961 Yankees scored 827 runs while giving up only 612. The 1962 Yankees scored 817 runs while giving up only 680. In total the Yankees scored 1644 runs while giving up only 1292 for an excellent run
differential of 352. The Yankees averaged 822 runs scored in a season over those two years.

Clearly the Yankees of that time had a superior offens
e.


Two of the best teams ever. If I had a time machine I would play them against each other. I would toss the early 1970's A's and Big Red Machine of 1975 in there also for the playoff of the best teams of the 1960's and 1970's.
The Yankees of the early sixties would look better had they had won the 1960 World Series, probably lost because Stengel pitched Ford only twice, perhaps influenced by Ford's troubles in the 1958 series.
That would have given them three in a row.
 

Dan L

Professional
#42
Another monumental rivalry in another sport, curling, saw "The King" Ernie Richardson, world champion in 1959 and 1960, go up against Hec Gervais, the world champion in 1961, in two classic battles in the 1962 round-robin Brier, Richardson outlasting in a marathon match, going through to win over Gervais in the playoff, and then later in Scotland his third of four world titles.

The Richardson vs. Gervais matches are from 12:30 to 19:48 and the playoff from 24:10 to 27:50. Looks good in full screen.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XEj3vX3LNIM

Richardson's four Canadian and world titles are unmatched to today.
 
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#45
Russell was the one who won titles including OG while Chamberlain was the one who played for stats
I would never have a doubt if I was a pro coach
 
#46
What is uncredibly amazing in those great Céltic teams is not that their stars were white
it is that their black players played exactly like whites
KC Jones, Rusell, Parish or DJ come to mind
 

Dan L

Professional
#49
The Chicago Blackhawks and Toronto Maple Leafs met in the 1962 Stanley Cup final, a bruising six-game matchup with a record 85 penalties, not ever equalled.

These were the two top teams of the era, each had a superstar left wing, Bobby Hull and Frank Mahovlich, a great centre, Stan Mikita and Dave Keon, a great defenceman, Pierre Pilote and Tim Horton, and a great goaltender, Glenn Hall and Johnny Bower.

The 1963 all-star game shows these great players in action, plus such other greats as Gordie Howe, Beliveau and Henri Richard.
Bobby Hull scores a magnificent goal on an end-to-end rush, Mahovlich scores twice, a great game. In that era, the defending Cup champions played the best of the rest in the all-star game, and they played seriously.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oRj0C5enjSw
 
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