Tennis Movement

skaj

skaj

Legend
I tried to identify the different elements, aspects of tennis movement and I came up with this list(most of them are interconnected, of course). For each aspect I put a player who I think is the best at it, plus a few other good examples in brackets:

Lateral: Bjorn Borg (Mecir, Graf, Federer, Nadal, Djokovic, Simon)

Forward: Stefan Edberg (Sampras, Cash, Laver, Gerulaitis, Navratilova)

Vertical: Pete Sampras (Laver, Okker, Nastase, Navratilova, Noah)

Footwork: Jimmy Connors (Federer, Rosewall, Mecir, Laver, Evert)

Foot speed: Gael Monfils (Nadal, Phau, De Minaur, Borg, Chang)

Agility: Michael Chang (Laver, Borg, Clement, Hewitt, Coria)

Balance: Amanda Coetzer (Kriek, Mecir, Rochus, Nalbandian, Zheng)

Anticipation: Marcelo Rios (Mecir, Santoro, Hingis, Murray, Radwanska)

Reflexes: Ilie Nastase (Rosewall, McEnroe, Date, Federer, Hingis)

Flexibility: Kim Clijsters (Srichapan, Jankovic, Monfils, Djokovic, Williams)

Acceleration: Sebastien Grosjean (Laver, Chang, Coetzer, Phau, De Minaur)

Transition: Roger Federer (Laver, Mecir, Sampras, Henin, Monfls)

Recovery: Miloslav Mecir (Borg, Graf, Clijsters, Monfils, Djokovic)

Court sense: Martina Hingis (Rosewall, Mecir, Federer, Nalbandian, Hsieh)

Stamina: Rafael Nadal (Borg, Laver, Djokovic, Ferrer, Dementieva)

Do you agree? Can you think of other aspects?
 
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skaj said:
I tried to identify the different elements, aspects of tennis movement and I came up with this list(most of them are interconnected, of course). For each aspect I put a player who I think is the best at it, plus a few other good examples in brackets:

Lateral: Bjorn Borg (Mecir, Graf, Federer, Nadal, Djokovic)

Forward: Stefan Edberg (Sampras, Cash, Laver, Gerulaitis, Navratilova)

Vertical: Rod Laver (Sampras, Okker, Nastase, Navratilova, Noah)

Footwork: Jimmy Connors (Federer, Rosewall, Mecir, Laver, Evert)

Foot speed: Gael Monfils (Nadal, Phau, De Minaur, Borg, Chang)

Agility: Michael Chang (Laver, Borg, Clement, Hewitt, Coria)

Balance: Amanda Coetzer (Kriek, Mecir, Rochus, Nalbandian, Zheng)

Anticipation: Marcelo Rios (Mecir, Santoro, Hingis, Murray, Radwanska)

Reflexes: Ilie Nastase (Rosewall, McEnroe, Date, Federer, Hingis)

Flexibility: Kim Clijsters (Srichapan, Jankovic, Monfils, Djokovic, Serena)

Acceleration: Sebastien Grosjean (Laver, Chang, Coetzer, Phau, De Minaur)

Transition: Roger Federer (Laver, Mecir, Sampras, Henin, Monfls)

Recovery: Miloslav Mecir (Borg, Graf, Clijsters, Monfils, Djokovic)

Court sense: Martina Hingis (Rosewall, Mecir, Federer, Nalbandian, Hsieh)

Stamina: Rafael Nadal (Borg, Federer, Djokovic, Ferrer, Dementieva)

Do you agree? Can you think of other aspects?
Click to expand...
Great thread.

Chang was the fastest player I have ever seen, faster than Monfils because his center of gravity was lower. Monfils probably can move faster going backwards to retrieve a lob, but Chang was absolutely the fastest player I've ever seen in person and I've seen them all since the 1980's. The slowest elite player has to have been Andre, movement wasn't his forte. Murray is underrated in speed, pre-hip issues.

I would also rate Lendl and Becker as very, very high on stamina. Lendl would get tired in his pre-1984 days on occasion, but afterwards? Never. I would put Borg ahead of Rafa on stamina since Rafa has been visibly gassed on a few occasions. Borg? Never, not even as a 17 year old.
 
Nadal on clay is peak movement in any direction, but particularly laterally. On hardcourt or grass he is impeded by a lack of sure footing but on clay he is godlike. To quote the great Roger Federer,

“He makes you feel uncomfortable the way he defends the court and plays on clay. There is nobody who even plays remotely close to him. I don't even know who I need to go search for to go practice with somebody who plays like him. It's just amazing how he plays from deep and then is able to bounce back and forth from the baseline.”

Nadal also possesses an extra gear which he sometimes engages whereby he almost appears to be floating on the court, as witnessed here on this point:


Breathtaking.
 
weakera said:
Nadal on clay is peak movement in any direction, but particularly laterally. On hardcourt or grass he is impeded by a lack of sure footing but on clay he is godlike. To quote the great Roger Federer,

“He makes you feel uncomfortable the way he defends the court and plays on clay. There is nobody who even plays remotely close to him. I don't even know who I need to go search for to go practice with somebody who plays like him. It's just amazing how he plays from deep and then is able to bounce back and forth from the baseline.”

Nadal also possesses an extra gear which he sometimes engages whereby he almost appears to be floating on the court, as witnessed here on this point:


Breathtaking.
Click to expand...
Everyone has sure footing on HC. The advantage he has on clay, which is the toughest surface to move on, is that others have unsure footing because it's slippery while he moves on it extremely naturally and impeccably times his slides into shots. It's very hard to change directions quickly on clay and to hit on the run but Nadal makes it look easy.

Same with Federer on grass, has a degree of comfort on it that no one else does.
 
metsman said:
Everyone has sure footing on HC. The advantage he has on clay, which is the toughest surface to move on, is that others have unsure footing because it's slippery while he moves on it extremely naturally and impeccably times his slides into shots. It's very hard to change directions quickly on clay and to hit on the run but Nadal makes it look easy.

Same with Federer on grass, has a degree of comfort on it that no one else does.
Click to expand...

You can call it what you will but his footing is definitely not as "sure" on hardcourt as clay for various reasons. He generally has less time to get into position, less time to runaround to his fh if he chooses, can't develop points as effectively, has to bend his knees more frequently, all of which inhibit his natural play style and movement. I mean I agree with what you're saying but finding fault with the term 'sure footing' is wrong, his footing is never so sure as it is on clay. A lack of sure footing does not necessarily mean slippery, but that he cannot move as confidently or capably.
 
skaj said:
Do you agree?
Click to expand...

Lateral: Gilles Simon

Forward: Gilles Simon

Vertical: Gilles Simon

Footwork: Gilles Simon

Foot speed: Gilles Simon

Agility: David Nalbandian

Balance: Gilles Simon

Anticipation: Gilles Simon

Reflexes: Gilles Simon

Flexibility: Gilles Simon

Acceleration: Gilles Simon

Transition: Gilles Simon

Recovery: Gilles Simon

Court sense: Jimmy Connors

Stamina: Gilles Simon
 
OldschoolKIaus said:
Lateral: Gilles Simon

Forward: Gilles Simon

Vertical: Gilles Simon

Footwork: Gilles Simon

Foot speed: Gilles Simon

Agility: David Nalbandian

Balance: Gilles Simon

Anticipation: Gilles Simon

Reflexes: Gilles Simon

Flexibility: Gilles Simon

Acceleration: Gilles Simon

Transition: Gilles Simon

Recovery: Gilles Simon

Court sense: Jimmy Connors

Stamina: Gilles Simon
Click to expand...

Nalbandian could maybe be mentioned for agility, if we go back to the early 2000s, when he was leaner and fitter.

However, I think he is among the best in other departments(footwork, anticipation, balance, sense of court).

Simon is a great mover, I agree, but I have to ask something: is he your secret crush?
 
Federer behind Nadal and Borg in the stamina category ? He's way behind: stamina is the main reason he loses to Rafa and Novak.

And what's the infatuation with Mecir ?

Also, put Noah first in the agility category.
 
terribleIVAN said:
Federer behind Nadal and Borg in the stamina category ? He's way behind: stamina is the main reason he loses to Rafa and Novak.

And what's the infatuation with Mecir ?

Also, put Noah first in the agility category.
Click to expand...

What do you mean? It's like asking what's the infatuation with Nadal, in a forehand thread.
 
skaj said:
His is very good, but for me he is more about foot speed and explosiveness. There are plenty of players with more refined footwork.
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Huh? Rafa is renowned for his dancing feet and magic footwork. Coaches and experts who know what they're talking about rate Rafa's footwork as among the best ever.
 
vernonbc said:
Huh? Rafa is renowned for his dancing feet and magic footwork. Coaches and experts who know what they're talking about rate Rafa's footwork as among the best ever.
Click to expand...

That does not necessarily contradict what I have said. Among the best ever could mean top 20 for example, top 15.
 
vernonbc said:
Huh? Rafa is renowned for his dancing feet and magic footwork. Coaches and experts who know what they're talking about rate Rafa's footwork as among the best ever.
Click to expand...
This made me think of the brilliant Dancing Fool and now I'm gonna listen to Zappa for the rest of the day :)
 
skaj said:
I tried to identify the different elements, aspects of tennis movement and I came up with this list(most of them are interconnected, of course). For each aspect I put a player who I think is the best at it, plus a few other good examples in brackets:

Lateral: Bjorn Borg (Mecir, Graf, Federer, Nadal, Djokovic)

Forward: Stefan Edberg (Sampras, Cash, Laver, Gerulaitis, Navratilova)

Vertical: Rod Laver (Sampras, Okker, Nastase, Navratilova, Noah)

Footwork: Jimmy Connors (Federer, Rosewall, Mecir, Laver, Evert)

Foot speed: Gael Monfils (Nadal, Phau, De Minaur, Borg, Chang)

Agility: Michael Chang (Laver, Borg, Clement, Hewitt, Coria)

Balance: Amanda Coetzer (Kriek, Mecir, Rochus, Nalbandian, Zheng)

Anticipation: Marcelo Rios (Mecir, Santoro, Hingis, Murray, Radwanska)

Reflexes: Ilie Nastase (Rosewall, McEnroe, Date, Federer, Hingis)

Flexibility: Kim Clijsters (Srichapan, Jankovic, Monfils, Djokovic, Serena)

Acceleration: Sebastien Grosjean (Laver, Chang, Coetzer, Phau, De Minaur)

Transition: Roger Federer (Laver, Mecir, Sampras, Henin, Monfls)

Recovery: Miloslav Mecir (Borg, Graf, Clijsters, Monfils, Djokovic)

Court sense: Martina Hingis (Rosewall, Mecir, Federer, Nalbandian, Hsieh)

Stamina: Rafael Nadal (Borg, Federer, Djokovic, Ferrer, Dementieva)

Do you agree? Can you think of other aspects?
Click to expand...

Wilander should be in the running in a couple of categories here.
 
Lateral: Djokovic

Forward: Stefan Edberg

Vertical: Noah/Sampras

Footwork: Graf/Federer

Foot speed: Gael Monfils

Agility: Michael Chang

Balance: Henin

Anticipation: Mecir

Reflexes: McEnroe/Sampras

Flexibility: Djokovic

Acceleration: Chang/de Minaur

Transition: Rafter

Recovery: Djokovic (due to open stance groundstrokes)

Court sense: Martina Hingis - not even close

Stamina: Laver/Borg

Do you agree? Yes, your list is great. I'd also have Mecir in the short list for most and top of the category "Most Deceptive".
 
King No1e said:
Honorable mention to Tsonga for reflexes. He's one of the quickest at the net.
Click to expand...

Agreed, but for me the measure of reflexes is how players handle net cords at close range. Volleying even the hardest groundstroke is a combination of reflexes, anticipatoin, footwork, etc .. but being able to volley a ball just after it clips the top of the net is pure reflex (and good hands). McEnroe and Sampras just seemed to do routinely.
 
tonylg said:
Agreed, but for me the measure of reflexes is how players handle net cords at close range. Volleying even the hardest groundstroke is a combination of reflexes, anticipatoin, footwork, etc .. but being able to volley a ball just after it clips the top of the net is pure reflex (and good hands). McEnroe and Sampras just seemed to do routinely.
Click to expand...

Radwanska goat!
 
OldschoolKIaus said:
Lateral: Gilles Simon

Forward: Gilles Simon

Vertical: Gilles Simon

Footwork: Gilles Simon

Foot speed: Gilles Simon

Agility: David Nalbandian

Balance: Gilles Simon

Anticipation: Gilles Simon

Reflexes: Gilles Simon

Flexibility: Gilles Simon

Acceleration: Gilles Simon

Transition: Gilles Simon

Recovery: Gilles Simon

Court sense: Jimmy Connors

Stamina: Gilles Simon
Click to expand...
Excellent post
 
tonylg said:
Lateral: Djokovic

Forward: Stefan Edberg

Vertical: Noah/Sampras

Footwork: Graf/Federer

Foot speed: Gael Monfils

Agility: Michael Chang

Balance: Henin

Anticipation: Mecir

Reflexes: McEnroe/Sampras

Flexibility: Djokovic

Acceleration: Chang/de Minaur

Transition: Rafter

Recovery: Djokovic (due to open stance groundstrokes)

Court sense: Martina Hingis - not even close

Stamina: Laver/Borg

Do you agree? Yes, your list is great. I'd also have Mecir in the short list for most and top of the category "Most Deceptive".
Click to expand...

For footwork, those little adjustment steps that position you for the shot, I always give the edge to Connors. His feet worked like a machine. Sampras definitely deserves a mention in the reflexes category. Novak's flexibility is best known right now but Monfils is as flexible, not to mention some retired players like Schrichipan. Clijsters was sliding and stretching more easily than anyone probably. She was also recovering from those stretches quickly, while Mecir's recovery was so good thanks to his strong legs, great balance and smooth splits. Novak is the best at hitting backhands on the stretch. Rafter for me was good at moving forward, not so much from defense/lateral to net. Federer I see as the best at this, he does it in the right moment and the transition seems effortless.
You think I should put Laver instead of Federer maybe for stamina? Roger never seems to be out of breath, but that also has to do with the efficiency of his movement technique. Lever I never watched live, just the best of the old matches on TV and YouTube highlights.
 
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Borg would literially kill Nadal at stanima. Nadal had too much muscle bulk, he's shown that after any rally he has to slow the point down to get his muscles oxygenated.
Borg woukd hit 30 shot rally with Vilas, walk straight to serving position, sometimes scratch his grip or use resin and begin serve action. He did this on average under 20 sec and near 12-15. Nadal takes 3x this time. He'd be juiced during games and that would acculuate during sets. He's proven he can't play under a "real" 30secs there's no way he'd make a real 20sec. No medical time outs. Not sure if toilet breaks where allowed, I remember Connors threatening to dump on the daffodils if they wouldn't let him go off court.
 
skaj said:
For footwork, those little adjustment steps that position you for the shot, I always give the edge to Connors. His feet worked like a machine. Sampras definitely deserves a mention in the reflexes category. Novak's flexibility is best known right now but Monfils is as flexible, not to mention some retired players like Schrichipan. Clijsters was sliding and stretching more easily than anyone probably. She was also recovering from those stretches so quickly, while Mecir's recovery was so good thanks to his strong legs, great balance and smooth splits. Novak is the best at hitting backhands on the stretch. Rafter for me was good at moving forward, not so much from defense/lateral to net. Federer I see as the best at this, he does it in the right moment and the transition seems effortless.
You think I should put Laver instead of Federer maybe for stamina? Roger never seems to be out of breath, but that also has to do with the efficiency of his movement technique. Lever I never watched live, just the best of the old matches on TV and YouTube highlights.
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Laver's Australian Open win in 1969 was and incredible display of stamina. It was played in Brisbane with temps and humidity that make Melbourne look tame. Round of 16 he beat Emerson 9-7 in the fourth. Quarters he beat Stolle in straights, but the second set was 18-16. Tony Roche took him to 5 in the semi. Laver won the second set 22-20 but lost the third 11-9. It was stupidly hot and remember you just played and played, not even a sit down at change of ends. How he backed up without drugs to beat a fresh Gimeno in the final, I'll never know. It was an ironman effort.
 
tonylg said:
Laver's Australian Open win in 1969 was and incredible display of stamina. It was played in Brisbane with temps and humidity that make Melbourne look tame. Round of 16 he beat Emerson 9-7 in the fourth. Quarters he beat Stolle in straights, but the second set was 18-16. Tony Roche took him to 5 in the semi. Laver won the second set 22-20 but lost the third 11-9. It was stupidly hot and remember you just played and played, not even a sit down at change of ends. How he backed up without drugs to beat a fresh Gimeno in the final, I'll never know. It was an ironman effort.
Click to expand...

Newcombe 1975 AO though. A better final opponent, too. Laver gave to understand in his book Gimeno underperformed, which makes sense as he was a pretty good player but out of place in a big non-clay final.
 
tonylg said:
Lateral: Djokovic

Forward: Stefan Edberg

Vertical: Noah/Sampras

Footwork: Graf/Federer

Foot speed: Gael Monfils

Agility: Michael Chang

Balance: Henin

Anticipation: Mecir

Reflexes: McEnroe/Sampras

Flexibility: Djokovic

Acceleration: Chang/de Minaur

Transition: Rafter

Recovery: Djokovic (due to open stance groundstrokes)

Court sense: Martina Hingis - not even close

Stamina: Laver/Borg

Do you agree? Yes, your list is great. I'd also have Mecir in the short list for most and top of the category "Most Deceptive".
Click to expand...

Also, for the lateral movement I chose Borg, not only because he’s quick around the baseline, but his technique is so good, the positioning, also direction changes, balance. He anticipates very well too. He is sort of always in control of the baseline, if I can put it like that, he makes it smaller, similar to Federer and Mecir. It’s a bit like a combination of Nadal's pace and athleticism and Roger’s light feet and timing.

Mecir is another good one, his lateral movement would be a combo of Federer’s footwork and anticipation and Novak’s speed and flexibility.

Coetzer I picked for the balance category, I always thought she was "unflippable".
 
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