Bobby Jr
G.O.A.T.
You mean one tenth?
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maxxy777
Guest
yeah how much money was 900 dollars in 1980 worth (Thats how much winner of 1 week of satelite won before they didnt tax this money in my country.)
and first place futures with tax is 700 dollars now.
So 900 dollars in 1980 vs 700 dollars 2015. Its 10x less i think if not more.
Tennis_Hands
Banned
You either aren't following or are taking a ****:
Here my comments:
In your most recent post you say that Blatter was responsible for smililar (although not quite as it didn't really affected the way the game is played) situation, so you must agree with my conclusion or did I miss something?
So, basically, while recognizing the fact, that the approach of the governing bodies in tennis did bring in more money to the game by making it an accessible "spectacle", it failed to cater to the sport itself (because veiwership =/= advancement in the sport).
You intorduced the tennis public, so I responded in a respective manner. I clearly make a note what public should those measures be aimed at as a potential source for further development of the sport.
I think that you have a problem identifying the tennis public and the targeted public and their link to what is happening in the sport.
Again, I am clearly talking about the people interested in tennis and not the ones targeted.
With the second sentence I recognize the problem with the viewership as that is where the great discrepancy between real fans and targeted public happens.
Again, we are talking about how the changes influenced the sport of tennis. The distinction that I make between tennis fans and "others" is quite clear.
The same.
So, what was your point again?
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maxxy777
Guest
i think soccer improved dramatically over period of last 25 years.
More people watch it live and pay tickets, more players earn money ,they earn way bigger money.
No one loses money win win situation.
In soccer Blatter was president most of this time.
In tennis exact opposite .
So if you compare this guys
Blatter positive guy
Atp,itf president negative guy
simple as that
So no idea why you are quoting yourself you are wrong no matter what you say it will never be other way around
when you compare these 2
More people watch it live and pay tickets, more players earn money ,they earn way bigger money.
No one loses money win win situation.
In soccer Blatter was president most of this time.
In tennis exact opposite .
So if you compare this guys
Blatter positive guy
Atp,itf president negative guy
simple as that
So no idea why you are quoting yourself you are wrong no matter what you say it will never be other way around
when you compare these 2
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Bobby Jr
G.O.A.T.
So you mean one tenth then? (i.e. in 1980 they got paid effectively about $7000 and now only $700)
"Ten time less" is hack English which doesn't mean what people who use it think it means. It's ambiguous syntax and almost always used incorrectly."Ten times less" doesn't mean a tenth, it means x-(10x) which would be a negative number.
You mean 0.1x which is "one tenth".
Tennis_Hands
Banned
This is soooooo, f***** up it is not even funny.
For starters, what exactly make you believe that the sport of football became "better"?
As you put it yourself, "poor people watch millionaires play".
The sport itself didn't get better and, forgive me, but how come that the festering corruption in FIFA can be seen as an advancement of the sport?
Same corruption that takes place just because the commercial interests are so huge (i.e. the prime reason why the millionaries became milloinaries in the first place).
Moreover, here is some screaming misunderstanding, when it comes to this discussion:
when the players enrich themselves at the expense of the deterioration of the sport, it is not exactly advancement of the sport now, is it?
In football you don't have that or at least not that direct correlation, because the game stayed the same, so it seems like a "win-win" situation as you put it (it is not like that either, but that is another discussion).
A case can also be made that the nature of tennis is such, that the more money go into it the greater the difference between the top players and everybody else is (something that we witness, although the link is not so clear cut and needs further examination).
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maxxy777
Guest
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maxxy777
Guest
you a delusional beyond anything,What makes soccer "better"? i gave you pure facts lol thats what.
Its bigger ,better ,stronger then 25 years ago.Is this not a fact.Just watch salarys before 25 years and now.
I shower you with information and yet you just dont see it.
is soccer more popular then 25 year ago -yes way more popular
do players make more money -yes they make way more money
Then ask those same players is it better for them - sure it is
Infact soccer did amazing job gathering fans from different sports in soccer coz they made it like that.
in tennis
Less money for 99% of players then 25 years ago infact players who didnt lose money 25 years ago top 200 now lose money.
Less people watch
less people play
And more money is put in tennis only on top just to keep appearance of wealthy sport
same time they literaly made large number of players lose money with such a bad calls
If they put money on top why the rest need to suffer and lose money.
Why they dont make same money as before???????
Because its run by worst people in sport industry.It was not enough that only few make money not all but lets ruin the rest financialy just to spite them.
get over yourself plz
tennis atp itf is worst run organisation that ever existed
What other sport deliberatly ruins their players
In soccer they made billions from billions around the world watching, they stole some so what
In tennis they made no money they stole from players and put in their pockets.
I rather someone gives me 1 million and steals 100k then taking my 5k i have and giving me nothing
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Tennis_Hands
Banned
You don't "shower me with information".
In fact, apart from the fact that the players receive more money now, you haven't shown how the sport, got better.
On the contrary. I asked a simple question about the corruption in FIFA and how it makes the sport (on topic for a change) better, but you chose to ignore it. Why?
You haven't addressed the deterioration of tennis as well (as a sport, not as bussiness).
Where is your source for that?
Where is your source for that?
Where is your source for that?
You are comparing a team sport to an individual sport and wonder why more people receive royalties or that royalties are more evenly distributed?
Moreover, while Football teams are essentially brands in themselves because of history, locality etc that all create value individual tennis players start from scratch.
How much success the "real" Manchester United has? How much do they earn?
You are delusional.
Federer makes just a fraction of his money from price money. Why can't the others do the same?
"Just to spite them". lol
They pay to whoever brings in the crowds.
No.
FIFA is not paying the wages of the players.
The clubs do, and they get their revenue from the fans directly or via their sponsors.
The only money coming from "above" are from TV broadcasting and that is only possible because of the said similarity between brands and football clubs.
ATP or ITF do not own the tournaments that the players play in. The football clubs do own their venues and can provide hard data for their potential share of the pool of fans.
Moreover, even in football the teams receive amount of money proportionate to their achievements (most of the time), even if it is because of longer exposure due to reaching later rounds of tournaments etc.
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maxxy777
Guest
1.Fact that players recieve more money now is the most important fact there is for any sport,
No only that fact that some players received much more but much more players recieved much more.
Is there anything else remotly close important then salary when it comes to proffesional sport ?
In 1984 - average in premier league 24k
2015- average 1,16 million
Now compared to tennis in which Ivan Lend is still top 10 in most earnings ever and he played in the 1980 tells a lot.
Is there any other relative sign of progress in this world then making more money? NO
Yet according to you i havent shown how sport became better.
2. corruption doesnt make the sport better but everything is corrupt to some extend,every country every sport.
What abouth tennis not a single 250,500 event generates money via viewers ,not a single one,were does the money come from?The banks
why?money launder.
All info taken from itf site:
3.losing money- atp has 2300 players,
Prize money does not cover expenses in the vast majority of cases: 94% of
females, and 95% males answered ‘No’ to this question.
So these people are losing money.
90% of them play mostly futures
$15,000 tournaments (182)
$10,000 tournaments (491)
this is year 2014 Making it total 673 weeks
Before the ITF assumed responsibility for the Satellite Circuits in 1990 there had been 31 Circuits offering a total prize money of US$975,000.
2014 -673 weeks
1990 -124 weeks
2014 average price money 11,3k
1990 average price money 7,8k
Its more then 5x increase in tournaments and practicaly the same money as 25 years ago.
So players couldnt break even in 1990 on itf let alone now with 5x as many weeks and much higher expences.
challengers look prety much the same same money as before 25 years but there are less of them.
Prize money does not cover expenses in the vast majority of cases: 94% of
females, and 95% males answered ‘No’ to this question.
3.Less people watch -if sport dont improve from lowest ranks people will only watch highest which means less people
4.less people play-less people watch less they play
5. why cant others be like fed?
why cant the rest soccer players be like messi,ronaldo
or basketball players jordan .cant get more stupid than this every sport has big stars with big contracts.
6."Just to spite them". lol
They pay to whoever brings in the crowds.
In normal atp no one brings the crowd its financed from banks, stadiums are empty no one wants to watch top 50 players.
they dont cover 10% of cost.
in futures they made more weeks with same money as 1990 .
So more cost for no reason what si ever,if there is no money why not cut the cost but no they increase it by making more weeks.
If you make conditions worse less people will watch and bring kids to watch ,start to play tennis.
Infact who comes to see future will never let his kid play.
7.FIFA is not paying the wages of the players.
But they did huge promoting of the sport which is almost the same,
more popular sport gets more money.
More money more popular.
No only that fact that some players received much more but much more players recieved much more.
Is there anything else remotly close important then salary when it comes to proffesional sport ?
In 1984 - average in premier league 24k
2015- average 1,16 million
Now compared to tennis in which Ivan Lend is still top 10 in most earnings ever and he played in the 1980 tells a lot.
Is there any other relative sign of progress in this world then making more money? NO
Yet according to you i havent shown how sport became better
.2. corruption doesnt make the sport better but everything is corrupt to some extend,every country every sport.
What abouth tennis not a single 250,500 event generates money via viewers ,not a single one,were does the money come from?The banks
why?money launder.
All info taken from itf site:
3.losing money- atp has 2300 players,
Prize money does not cover expenses in the vast majority of cases: 94% of
females, and 95% males answered ‘No’ to this question.
So these people are losing money.
90% of them play mostly futures
$15,000 tournaments (182)
$10,000 tournaments (491)
this is year 2014 Making it total 673 weeks
Before the ITF assumed responsibility for the Satellite Circuits in 1990 there had been 31 Circuits offering a total prize money of US$975,000.
2014 -673 weeks
1990 -124 weeks
2014 average price money 11,3k
1990 average price money 7,8k
Its more then 5x increase in tournaments and practicaly the same money as 25 years ago.
So players couldnt break even in 1990 on itf let alone now with 5x as many weeks and much higher expences.
challengers look prety much the same same money as before 25 years but there are less of them.
Prize money does not cover expenses in the vast majority of cases: 94% of
females, and 95% males answered ‘No’ to this question.
3.Less people watch -if sport dont improve from lowest ranks people will only watch highest which means less people
4.less people play-less people watch less they play
5. why cant others be like fed?
why cant the rest soccer players be like messi,ronaldo
or basketball players jordan .cant get more stupid than this every sport has big stars with big contracts.
6."Just to spite them". lol
They pay to whoever brings in the crowds.
In normal atp no one brings the crowd its financed from banks, stadiums are empty no one wants to watch top 50 players.
they dont cover 10% of cost.
in futures they made more weeks with same money as 1990 .
So more cost for no reason what si ever,if there is no money why not cut the cost but no they increase it by making more weeks.
If you make conditions worse less people will watch and bring kids to watch ,start to play tennis.
Infact who comes to see future will never let his kid play.
7.FIFA is not paying the wages of the players.
But they did huge promoting of the sport which is almost the same,
more popular sport gets more money.
More money more popular.
Tennis_Hands
Banned
Oh really?
Lendl played in the 80ies so it MUST be a sign how much more money they received back then (let us forget that you are talking top player so, very representative of what you are trying to prove).
Then I would urge you to take a good look at what Lendl has achieved in comparison with the people around him in the prize money ranking.
I will help you a bit with that:
in front of him are tennis giants like:
Andy Murray with 2 Majors to his name
David Ferrer with 0 Majors to his name
Kafelnikov with 2 Majors to his name
Berdych with 0 Majors to his name
Right behind him are:
Wawrinka with 2 Majors to his name
Hewitt with 2 Majors to his name
Roddick with 1 Major to his name.
Is that a tricky question?
So Mayweather vs. Pacquiao is the greatest boxing match ever?
Thanks for letting us know.
Yet according to you i havent shown how sport became better
See the above.
A second tricky question.
Yes.
For example the sport itself?
People used to play football along with their normal job.
A certain australian tennis player won AO while mopping floors.
That are some pretty decisive conclusions.
Have you any actual evidence to back up the idea that the banks are using the tournaments for money laundering?
I am not even going to comment on your stance on corruption.
All info taken from itf site:
So, there are more tournaments (which a kind of contradicts your stance on whether the numbers of players playing it are declining) but that is somehow telling about how much the players actually play.
So, is a player suddenly able to play in two tournaments at the same time?
I would very much like to see the numbers corrected for inflation instead of that drivel.
Or the actual playing time of the players on tour (averaged for a single player, of course).
So players couldnt break even in 1990 on itf let alone now with 5x as many weeks and much higher expences.
challengers look prety much the same same money as before 25 years but there are less of them.
You said that already.
However, you didn't say what keeps the said players afloat.
Miracles?
I want to see the numbers for that claim, not your "logic".
So, there are more playing weeks but less people play?
Or do you mean that less people, that are not pros play, because they don't watch as much?
Which one?
Respectively, they receive less, relative to what Ronaldo and Messi earn.
Same in tennis.
I hear you squeal about how it isn't fair, but have you thought about the discrepancy between what a top boxer earns and what a top tennis pro earns?
I mean, look at what Mayweather earns in ONE match compared to Federer, Djokovic, Nadal etc.
"Bring in the crowds" is not meant only literally, obviously.
The viewership is influenced by who is playing, and TV rights bring the big bucks along with sponsors.
You are delusional about who is going to watch what.
If someone is interested in tennis, he WILL watch futures, because that is what is available where he is (barring living at one of the major tennis destinations).
Also, I don't know how you got that in your head that a kid cannot catch the bug by watching Futures. The level is really high and a lot can be learned and witnessed.
Do all the kids that start to play football start watching on Emirates? Do you realize how many divisions there are in the countries where football is a national sport and they ALL have fans, junior teams etc.
LOL
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maxxy777
Guest
Oh really?
Lendl played in the 80ies so it MUST be a sign how much more money they received back then (let us forget that you are talking top player so, very representative of what you are trying to prove).
Then I would urge you to take a good look at what Lendl has achieved in comparison with the people around him in the prize money ranking.
I will help you a bit with that:
in front of him are tennis giants like:
Andy Murray with 2 Majors to his name
David Ferrer with 0 Majors to his name
Kafelnikov with 2 Majors to his name
Berdych with 0 Majors to his name
Right behind him are:
Wawrinka with 2 Majors to his name
Hewitt with 2 Majors to his name
Roddick with 1 Major to his name.
Is that a tricky question?
So Mayweather vs. Pacquiao is the greatest boxing match ever?
Thanks for letting us know.
See the above.
A second tricky question.
Yes.
For example the sport itself?
People used to play football along with their normal job.
A certain australian tennis player won AO while mopping floors.
That are some pretty decisive conclusions.
Have you any actual evidence to back up the idea that the banks are using the tournaments for money laundering?
I am not even going to comment on your stance on corruption.
All info taken from itf site:
So, there are more tournaments (which a kind of contradicts your stance on whether the numbers of players playing it are declining) but that is somehow telling about how much the players actually play.
So, is a player suddenly able to play in two tournaments at the same time?
I would very much like to see the numbers corrected for inflation instead of that drivel.
Or the actual playing time of the players on tour (averaged for a single player, of course).
So players couldnt break even in 1990 on itf let alone now with 5x as many weeks and much higher expences.
challengers look prety much the same same money as before 25 years but there are less of them.
You said that already.
However, you didn't say what keeps the said players afloat.
Miracles?
I want to see the numbers for that claim, not your "logic".
So, there are more playing weeks but less people play?
Or do you mean that less people, that are not pros play, because they don't watch as much?
Which one?
Respectively, they receive less, relative to what Ronaldo and Messi earn.
Same in tennis.
I hear you squeal about how it isn't fair, but have you thought about the discrepancy between what a top boxer earns and what a top tennis pro earns?
I mean, look at what Mayweather earns in ONE match compared to Federer, Djokovic, Nadal etc.
"Bring in the crowds" is not meant only literally, obviously.
The viewership is influenced by who is playing, and TV rights bring the big bucks along with sponsors.
You are delusional about who is going to watch what.
If someone is interested in tennis, he WILL watch futures, because that is what is available where he is (barring living at one of the major tennis destinations).
Also, I don't know how you got that in your head that a kid cannot catch the bug by watching Futures. The level is really high and a lot can be learned and witnessed.
Do all the kids that start to play football start watching on Emirates? Do you realize how many divisions there are in the countries where football is a national sport and they ALL have fans, junior teams etc.
LOL
1. Lendl is top 10 in most earnings ever he played 35 years ago,looking in that 90 increases went in that same exact spot for top players its not that great.
Now what the rest got?Even less.
2.who are you to decide what is the greatest match in boxing,even if it wasnt it goes to show my point :even lesser boxers earn more money then best did before.Its same in soccer some players get insane contract.It later shows they are not that good.So what?generaly better players get more money but if lesser player get more money just shows state of that sport is great.
These sports are so good not only top players get payed top dollar even lesser get top dollar.
3.So to say soccer isnt better sport then before because mayweather isnt best boxer in the world in your opinion is simply amazing i love it
4.I say most important thing in proffesional sport is to make money.Because that is definition of proffesional sport..
Proffesional sport is when player makes living on it
But you say most important thing in proffesional sport is sport itself not the money?And btw its normal that proffesional players work part time.
That is definition of amateur sport not proffesional.
So by your opinion
Most important thing in proffesional sport is that it should be amateur lololol.
5. In 2013 average played tournaments from 250 to 500 - 22 with average cost 35k dollars in europe(no coaching included). players earn 16k average in 2013
same ranked players in year 2001 average earnings 14k average.
What keeps them afloat not miracles -90%players stated family so parents pay this aditional expences.
Player cant play 2 tournaments same time.
there are no more players just more tournaments so more people got the points that before couldnt get the points cos first rounds and qualy is easyer.
6. you ask why rest dont get contract like fed my point was only top players get top contract .not everyone can be a top player
.there are very few players who get huge contract in any sport.
7. no one ever watches futures ,poor organisation , all players losing money,even lowest ranked judge makes more money then any player.
First thing kids and parents ask how much they win ,
well not much as low as 50 dollar per win and even winner goes home empty handed.
Who wants to watch 20 plus year olds playing for points,very very few.
8.
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Tennis_Hands
Banned
You do realize that that statement contradicts itself, right?
Once the top players form the past received so much, and at the same time they received less than what is deemed today for the top pros (i.e. the skewed towards the top earnings of today).
I am just asking based on your logic. Most historians of the game would disagree with such sentiment, which means that your premise is also under scrutiny.
As for the latter part: well todays top pros also receive crazy amount of money. Look at Djokovic this year. Hell, look at David "I have no Major titles" Ferrer.
3.So to say soccer isnt better sport then before because mayweather isnt best boxer in the world in your opinion is simply amazing i love it
Um, what?
No, I asked you what made the sport of football better and you told me that the universal measure for that is money.
Then I asked you how exactly money made the sport itself better and gave you an example of times, when players were not professional athlets and that didn't hamper the quality of the sport itself. I never introduced the professional vs. amateur debate. That is your interpretation of what I said.
That is all very good, but how does it show how much players played and earned (corrected for inflation if possible).
So, either they come from rich families (in which case your concern about them is pointless) or you are talking BS, because, guess what: they cannot do that for long, if that is the case.
You will have to write this in proper understandable English, so that I can understand what you are trying to say.
Capable players get contracts. Why should be of any concern to you that uncapable players cannot get them, or do you want the paying public to be paying more for a less quality?
They don't have to get "top contracts". They need to make money.
Besides, when you compare football and tennis and want the same for both sports, can you give us an estimate of how much money there is in football compared to tennis?
Just a rough estimate would do to see what you are talking about.
This is absolute BS.
We had (have?) a silver badge umpire on this site. What he explained about the money he and his colleagues earn was that they are basically working for almost free.
If a player cannot earn money off of participating in Futures, then he is not advancing in them, which in turn means that he is not good enough vs the competition. OR do you expect that ATP and ITF will magically start "printing" money, so that a super low level professional tournament pays top dollar even for the earlier round participants.
What is the respective level of the futures in football, in your opinion?
Here is the Futures tournaments earnings per USTA:
http://assets.usta.com/assets/1/15/2011 ATP Point Table.pdf
How a winner goes home empty handed is a mystery to me.
Rock Strongo
Legend
Delete OP
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maxxy777
Guest
1.yes lendl recieved less-but how much less considering its 35 years later when his still in top 10 in earnings.Lendl earned 22mill that is 50million worth in 1015 if you look the inflation.
and hes just behind nadal at number 4.
So raises in tennis even at highest lvl is minor to non existent.
infact just shows tennis was in good place before cosidering to now.
That means it was much more popular and more people were watching.
Same time maradona same year born as lendl was earning 25k dollars per month.
2015 messi is earning 350k pouns in a week.
So soccer went up like crazy on every lvl tennis barely on top lvl but not that much if all considering inflation.
2.
progress in proffesional sport is not measured by historians opinion or your opinion of quality of certan player.Its measured in popularity which brings money,So progress is measured in money.
Historians say maradona is better then messi.In your opinion that is deterioration of soccer lol.look at the earnings again lol.
your logic is false.
3.my exact question was:
Is there anything else remotly close important then salary when it comes to proffesional sport ?
and you said :A second tricky question.-whats so tricky abouth it?
Yes.
For example the sport itself?
People used to play football along with their normal job.
A certain australian tennis player won AO while mopping floors.
since i was talking only abouth proffesional sport you just chose to read what you want,
not what is written right in front of you.
3.players .
MALE PLAYERS RANKED >250 HAVE PLAYED SIGNIFICANTLY MORE (>40%)
FUTURES TOURNAMENTS OVER TIME
in 2001 average player earned 14k dollars in 16 weeks average -14k is 19k by todays worth only by inflation
in 2015 average player earned 16k in 22 week with expences 35k.which is loss 1200 per week of playing
so players in 2015 earn 3k less just by inflation.
Not to mention 900 dollars that they have left because 6 weeks less expences.
players dont earn money in futures but in 2001 they had 9k dollars less expences then in 2015.
4.you said
Federer makes just a fraction of his money from price money. Why can't the others do the same?
then you say:
Capable players get contracts. Why should be of any concern to you that uncapable players cannot get them,
why did you ask me that question in the first place?
top 100 gets contract with clothes,strings,rackets few k dollars at best.
top 200 free clothes,strings,rackets
top 300 nothing -i know top 300 guy he buys everything like me in a shop or online.
its determent by ranking thats why they make no money.
5..28 years average age in top 100 and yes most quit before this happens
Average age to come to top 100 from 1 point is 4,8 years. so 175k expences without coach and living expences at home.
90% (from itf site ) of this money comes from parents and yet most of them are not rich but middle or middle lower class hungry to succed.
so how they pay 19k dollars minus ?
they dont.
They dont sleep in official hotels which cost 88 dollars average(itf site) but cheapest motels they can find,players told me they slept in 10 dollar cheapest ***** houses in eastern europe,they sleep in toilets,halls tents, cars,stations,they dont check in hotels sleep for free(very popular) afraid of getting caught,
transport is only from official hotel to site ,players need to go somehow from this **** hole they sleep to courts it costs time and money.
They eat crap food,they string thick strings so it doesnt breake much,they travel cheapest possible way which is way longer,even up to 30 hours on train.
they wash clothes by hands,play in years old stuff,old rackets and so on.
So they they cut the cost by 5-10k then they play club matches but in same time lose tournament time.
They live like dogs to be 250-500 atp and end year with 5-15 few k minus depending how much they manage to save that parents end up paying.
Not life anyone will likely chose except people hungry for succes.
All of this crap lowers their chance to improve you cant live like dog and improve.
Top 200 players have much much higher costs because you need to live and train like proffesional to be one.
6.there are more tournaments and quality of first rounds is diluted,
so many players won atp points which otherwise wouldnt if there were less tournaments.
before cut off(last player in main draw) was 500, now its 1000 to get in main draw
so first round are much easyer.Before you needed to beat top 500,600 player to get a point .
7.empires dont get much money but live like kings compared to players in futures.
all expences paid
for players none.Players leave tournament with a huge bill while living in a much worse condiotions.
8. chance to improve is much lower if you live low quality life on tournaments.
9.1300 dollar first place-its 900 with tax so players get 900 dollars.
its site:weekly food 300,room rate 88 times 7 -600 dollars restringing 125.
this is without travelling its already more then 1k.
10. What is the respective level of the futures in football, in your opinion?
i know for a fact that my friend ranked 700 atp played 2nd division which payed 12k euro per year no expences.
he did 2 seasons.At age 27 -he never practised football until 25.
So he was able to make money in football,same time in tennis he lost 50k and so much time.
Fact is take top 300 atp players train them 1 year in football and put them in any first division in the world.No one will nothice hes is not pro player.Maybe not all of them some are better then others but almost all tennis players play can play decent soccer.
Then take best soccer players in the world train them 1 year and put them in worst future in qualifications. players will gather to watch and make fun of them .
And those are worst of the worst.Chances they get even 1 atp point is no were near possible.All soccer players cant play even at lowest of the low in tennis.
Non of them would ever dare to enter futures and a lot of them play tennis regulary.
11. Quality of organisation on futures.
Non existent.
Itf puts fax sheet with official hotel 88 dollars price per night average.Their job is done
Most of the time there is no transport to courts so players needs taxy.
No organised food,nothing only stringing for 15 dollars.
Most players cant pay for non of this so they need to organise everything for themselfs.
Few guy told me ex 300 atp they can count on fingers when someone was watching them.
One said he was playing finals on future and court next to him guy was feeding the balls to a kid-in other words no one cares for this.
And why would they cant get any worse then this for the sport then futures tennis.
and hes just behind nadal at number 4.
So raises in tennis even at highest lvl is minor to non existent.
infact just shows tennis was in good place before cosidering to now.
That means it was much more popular and more people were watching.
Same time maradona same year born as lendl was earning 25k dollars per month.
2015 messi is earning 350k pouns in a week.
So soccer went up like crazy on every lvl tennis barely on top lvl but not that much if all considering inflation.
2.
progress in proffesional sport is not measured by historians opinion or your opinion of quality of certan player.Its measured in popularity which brings money,So progress is measured in money.
Historians say maradona is better then messi.In your opinion that is deterioration of soccer lol.look at the earnings again lol.
your logic is false.
3.my exact question was:
Is there anything else remotly close important then salary when it comes to proffesional sport ?
and you said :A second tricky question.-whats so tricky abouth it?
Yes.
For example the sport itself?
People used to play football along with their normal job.
A certain australian tennis player won AO while mopping floors.
since i was talking only abouth proffesional sport you just chose to read what you want,
not what is written right in front of you.
3.players .
MALE PLAYERS RANKED >250 HAVE PLAYED SIGNIFICANTLY MORE (>40%)
FUTURES TOURNAMENTS OVER TIME
in 2001 average player earned 14k dollars in 16 weeks average -14k is 19k by todays worth only by inflation
in 2015 average player earned 16k in 22 week with expences 35k.which is loss 1200 per week of playing
so players in 2015 earn 3k less just by inflation.
Not to mention 900 dollars that they have left because 6 weeks less expences.
players dont earn money in futures but in 2001 they had 9k dollars less expences then in 2015.
4.you said
Federer makes just a fraction of his money from price money. Why can't the others do the same?
then you say:
Capable players get contracts. Why should be of any concern to you that uncapable players cannot get them,
why did you ask me that question in the first place?
top 100 gets contract with clothes,strings,rackets few k dollars at best.
top 200 free clothes,strings,rackets
top 300 nothing -i know top 300 guy he buys everything like me in a shop or online.
its determent by ranking thats why they make no money.
5..28 years average age in top 100 and yes most quit before this happens
Average age to come to top 100 from 1 point is 4,8 years. so 175k expences without coach and living expences at home.
90% (from itf site ) of this money comes from parents and yet most of them are not rich but middle or middle lower class hungry to succed.
so how they pay 19k dollars minus ?
they dont.
They dont sleep in official hotels which cost 88 dollars average(itf site) but cheapest motels they can find,players told me they slept in 10 dollar cheapest ***** houses in eastern europe,they sleep in toilets,halls tents, cars,stations,they dont check in hotels sleep for free(very popular) afraid of getting caught,
transport is only from official hotel to site ,players need to go somehow from this **** hole they sleep to courts it costs time and money.
They eat crap food,they string thick strings so it doesnt breake much,they travel cheapest possible way which is way longer,even up to 30 hours on train.
they wash clothes by hands,play in years old stuff,old rackets and so on.
So they they cut the cost by 5-10k then they play club matches but in same time lose tournament time.
They live like dogs to be 250-500 atp and end year with 5-15 few k minus depending how much they manage to save that parents end up paying.
Not life anyone will likely chose except people hungry for succes.
All of this crap lowers their chance to improve you cant live like dog and improve.
Top 200 players have much much higher costs because you need to live and train like proffesional to be one.
6.there are more tournaments and quality of first rounds is diluted,
so many players won atp points which otherwise wouldnt if there were less tournaments.
before cut off(last player in main draw) was 500, now its 1000 to get in main draw
so first round are much easyer.Before you needed to beat top 500,600 player to get a point .
7.empires dont get much money but live like kings compared to players in futures.
all expences paid
for players none.Players leave tournament with a huge bill while living in a much worse condiotions.
8. chance to improve is much lower if you live low quality life on tournaments.
9.1300 dollar first place-its 900 with tax so players get 900 dollars.
its site:weekly food 300,room rate 88 times 7 -600 dollars restringing 125.
this is without travelling its already more then 1k.
10. What is the respective level of the futures in football, in your opinion?
i know for a fact that my friend ranked 700 atp played 2nd division which payed 12k euro per year no expences.
he did 2 seasons.At age 27 -he never practised football until 25.
So he was able to make money in football,same time in tennis he lost 50k and so much time.
Fact is take top 300 atp players train them 1 year in football and put them in any first division in the world.No one will nothice hes is not pro player.Maybe not all of them some are better then others but almost all tennis players play can play decent soccer.
Then take best soccer players in the world train them 1 year and put them in worst future in qualifications. players will gather to watch and make fun of them .
And those are worst of the worst.Chances they get even 1 atp point is no were near possible.All soccer players cant play even at lowest of the low in tennis.
Non of them would ever dare to enter futures and a lot of them play tennis regulary.
11. Quality of organisation on futures.
Non existent.
Itf puts fax sheet with official hotel 88 dollars price per night average.Their job is done
Most of the time there is no transport to courts so players needs taxy.
No organised food,nothing only stringing for 15 dollars.
Most players cant pay for non of this so they need to organise everything for themselfs.
Few guy told me ex 300 atp they can count on fingers when someone was watching them.
One said he was playing finals on future and court next to him guy was feeding the balls to a kid-in other words no one cares for this.
And why would they cant get any worse then this for the sport then futures tennis.
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