Tennis Serve Wrist Snap: Harmful Myth?!?!

[TimothyO]

I know there have been several threads about "snapping" one's wrist while serving. Heck, I had started one when a tennis pro told me I needed to snap mine!!!

Before continuing let's establish a definition: as described by my pro, several online articles, and as I've observed on the courts, the Tennis Serve Wrist Snap is when the racquet and hand snap down at the wrist as the arm is fully extended. Imagine holding your arm fully extended and waving goodbye with your racquet.

To explain this technique to me my tennis pro literally held my arm straight, fully extended, and then bent my hand downward sharply at the wrist. I've seen some photos online in which experts debating the subject draw red lines along the arms of professional players trying to show they do the same thing. I've also observed rec players doing this. They extend their arm straight and then bend their hand at the wrist as if "waving goodbye".

Anyway, I tried this and got very poor consistency. As a noob I've been struggling with my serve. I've taken lessons, read books, and watched instructional videos online. And some folks (not all) kept telling me to "snap my wrist".

Finally, I watched a bunch of super slow motion videos of pros serving. Here's one example.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3FXtY7kPr-8&feature=related

The first thing that struck me is that there's NO FREAKIN wrist snap. As in martial arts the wrist and forearm pronate during the follow through. The arm also bends at the elbow during deceleration. At best one might describe the arm as being in a gentle arc post-contact but at contact it's straight.

But when you freeze frame these pros at moment of contact the arm and wrist are straight. As/just after contact occurs the forearm, wrist, hand, and racquet pronate inward almost as one so the racquet face is facing "outward" during follow through. But the wrist remains straight. This pronation causes a dramatic change in racquet attitude, but it's definitely not caused by a bend in the wrist.

Conceptually it reminds me of a golf swing. In this case the swing up to contact is merely putting the racquet head in position behind the ball so the hip, torso, and shoulder turn can drive the ball...in other words serve with the body, not the arm. That's the opposite of the wrist snap!

Anyway, I tried this "serve as golf swing" approach. I started thinking of the service motion in three ways.

1. Unbending the arm to a straight position is simply getting the racquet head to contact consistently since your hitting lever is then a fixed length of arm + racquet (wrist snapping means point of contact can vary with angle of contact as the wrist bends...)

2. You're really hitting with the rotation of your hips, trunk, and shoulders and simply timing that with the unbending of your arm and toss of the ball.

3. The forearm pronation as one contacts seems to impart some spin to the ball keeping it down into the service box. It's not extreme like a kick serve but even a flat serve has a little spin from this arm motion.

So on Saturday I was the struggling noob with the crappy serve. On Sunday I was the struggling noob with the crappy serve but seeing light at the end of the tunnel as I had just watched these slow mo videos on Saturday night.

Today I was the struggling noob who could suddenly aim serves to specific points in the serve box. For example, I could consistently hit down the T from the deuce court and to the far right corner from the Ad court. If facing a righty this mean I could serve to his backhand consistently. The more I relaxed my arm the faster the pace but I'm a noob so this is all still coming together for me. My serve is still crappy to you higher level players but at least now I can place it MUCH more consistently while still retaining some pace. I don't have to "dink" serve.

Based on threads I've read here there seems to be controversy about the wrist snap. Does it exit or doesn't it? Is it helpful or harmful?

To this noob is certainly does NOT exist in that video of multiple pros hitting serves and it certainly limited my ability to develop a consistent and accurate serve. I'm so happy to rid of the Wrist Snap Albatross. For the first time I'm excited by serving instead of dreading it.

 

[weksa]

The key is: do NOT force the wrist snap. I much rather think of it in terms of natural pronation as a result of proper kinetic chain of fluid motion.

I think that some teachers bring in the term "wrist snap" for the players who hold their racquet with a death grip and try to hit/muscle the serve instead of having a nice smooth swing that lets the racquet head speed take care of business..

 

[TimothyO]

The key is: do NOT force the wrist snap. I much rather think of it in terms of natural pronation as a result of proper kinetic chain of fluid motion.

I think that some teachers bring in the term "wrist snap" for the players who hold their racquet with a death grip and try to hit/muscle the serve instead of having a nice smooth swing that lets the racquet head speed take care of business..

I definitely agree that it's best to keep the arm loose and to swing smooth.

But forced or unforced I don't see a snap/bend in that video. Nor did feel one when practicing at lunch time.

It's certainly best to pronate naturally and smoothly too. I clearly see the benefits.

I think some folks perceive a wrist literally bending because of the change in angle of the racquet head from contact to follow through. At contact it's straight. Post contact it's aiming more down ward. But that change in direction is clearly from pronation rather than bending the wrist.

 

[gahaha]

I think the snapping comes naturally, I didn't realize I do it until someone pointed it out. But yea, shouldn't force the snap, it might ruin the form of your stroke.

 

[TimothyO]

I think the snapping comes naturally, I didn't realize I do it until someone pointed it out. But yea, shouldn't force the snap, it might ruin the form of your stroke.

You see, that's the question. What snapping? I don't see it in that video at all.

There's a straight arm, slightly pronated at contact.

During follow through the shoulder, elbow, forearm, wrist, hand decelerate from straight to a gentle curve. But definitely no bend in the wrist.

 

[Ash_Smith]

TimO - very well written and excellent that you've gone out, done some research and found your way onto the path to a better serve! Pronation (internal-external rotation) of the upper arm is an essential element of a big serve. There is no snap as we understand it!

As for the "wrist-snap" myth, I think it came from a time before we had countless hours of high-speed video to study. At normal speed, to the naked eye, the motion after contact can look like the wrist is experiencing flexion, whereas we now know that the wrist position remains fairly neutral and that the upper-arm and forearm pronate.

Just my theory anyway!

Cheers

Ash

 

[TimothyO]

whereas we now know that the wrist position remains fairly neutral and that the upper-arm and forearm pronate.

Just my theory anyway!

Cheers

Ash

That's precisely what I observed and, when I implemented it, suddenly discovered consistency, accuracy, and pace. We're talking one day nothing and the next I can actually hit a freakin serve!

I still suck! But much less now. Most importantly I can see a clear path for development.

 

[weksa]

+1 for Ash_Smith's suggestion on the wrist-snap. I think a true wrist snap would put too much pressure on the wrist, resulting in an injury -- if not immediately, then definitely with repetition.

 

[jswinf]

I'm not sure about the reality of the "wrist snap," I think maybe it should naturally happen and result in natural pronation.

I can say that for a year or 2 I was thinking "pronation" all the time while serving, and my serve was OK but seemed to lack pop, even when I wanted some. I checked out a video from Jim McLennan, and from his remarks more that the video stuff got the idea that maybe some "snap" was OK.

So lately I've been letting myself think "snap" on serving and my serve seems a bit...snappier.

I was looking to post a link for the video but found it has been "taken down", sorry. This particular web instructor makes no bones about the fact that he does it to make $$, not that there's anything wrong with that.

 

[sureshs]

Pronation is when the palm faces outwards.

It is not the same as wrist bending downwards.

Many club players do not pronate. So, saying that pro players have a smooth pronation which also serves as a wrist snap is not applicable to them.

Except for high arcing second serves with a limited finish, most other serves do require the wrist to bend down in order to keep the ball in the court. Whether the palm faces outwards at finish is another matter, and need not happen.

 

[Caloi]

People can be too "wristy" in their serves. I went through it last year. My shoulder flexibility had gone down hill dramatically (Previous shoulder injuries) and I was making it up with more wrist snap at the top of my serve. This led to my weak grip allowing my racquets to come flying out of my hand and breaking on the court. Happened twice in two weeks in fact.

I have since spent a lot of time and energy to force myself to rebuild my shoulder, allowing a more natural swing path, typical pronation and am no longer relying on a wrist snap at the top of my serve to generate racquet speed.

So, does wrist snap occur? Yes!

Should it occur? :shrug:

 

[Ash_Smith]

Pronation is when the palm faces outwards.

It is not the same as wrist bending downwards.

Exactly, pronation is internal to external rotation of the arm (in this case). What has traditionally been referred to as "wrist-snap" is infact flexion. Flexion isn't going to do anything for your serve except possibly damage the tendons in the back of you wrist!

Cheers

Ash

 

[Power Player]

What may really help you get past this is what I have been doing. Make sure to grip the racquet low on the handle so your pinky is around halfway off of it. It should feel pretty comfortable, and you will just have to remind yourself right before you serve each time for a bit.

This will make a huge difference because you will not have to think about the wrist snapping, it is going to naturally bring the racquet head down.

The other thing that helps is the timing of the whole service motion. I have messed with mine a lot, and my serve has sucked for a while, but it is now clicking in where I am placing it into corners and hitting aces again.

stay real relaxed and slow on the whole motion and try mimcing the service motion on the fuzzy yellow balls site. That is the basic serve, but once you really get it right, the timing syncs up and you can get into a zone with your serve that should help you with the pronation.

 

[magnut]

Wrist snap is more harmful on groundstrokes than it is on serves. For serving its a given. The trick is getting the hang of it while still keeping the fluidity of the service motion. Its also one of the last things you learn when developing the serve.

Yes, the pros use wrist snap on the serve. Every one of them. Very tough to see on video though.

If you can get the feel for it you will see substaintial gains in both action and power on your serve. Its not easy though. Nothing is in tennis.

 

[Ash_Smith]

Magnut - define "wrist-snap"

Cheers

Ash

 

[LeeD]

No wrist snap on a good serve.
Plenty of forearm rotation with the racket held offset from the forearm, so the inward twisting of the forearm makes it SEEM like there is a "wrist snap", but it's really a rotation of an off axis arm.
I'm weaker and older, and have never needed to hold down below the butt cap for any of my fingers. Pronation can occur with a full grip, if you mainly hold onto the racket with your fore and mid fingers, looseing grip on pinkie.

 

[Power Player]

Leed, you misunderstand. the OP is clearly having trouble getting the feel for the pronation on the serve. Holding the racquet with the pinky coming off it will help increase pace and also lets the racquet do more work.

It is nice that you don't do this, but many pros still do, and I think that means something as well.

 

[LeeD]

I'd think holding the racket offset from his forearm and then twisting inwards with the forearm by the shoulder joint would cure any lack of pronation.
And tell him to completely relax the bottom muscle on the forearm.

 

[fuzz nation]

I'm not digging too far into the technical aspects here, but I think it's smart to think of "wrist snap" more as a feeling in the progression of a service motion than an action that the server should try to accomplish. The muscles and tendons in the wrist are relatively weak and should only be responsible for guiding the racquet through its swing path and maintaining the desired angle of the racquet face with the right grip.

For me, there's more of a sensation of wrist snap when I make an effort to serve with a lot of spin. By comparison, a flat serve doesn't have the same feeling because of my racquet acceleration through contact, not just to contact. For those spin serves, I'd say that my wrist "breaks" or "turns over" slightly earlier and even a little more violently than with a flatter serve, but if my wrist stays loose, it isn't especially stressful.

That feeling of wrist snap occurs (for me) when the racquet arm slows more quickly and the racquet passes the wrist more suddenly. This can be helpful to generate the combination of angular contact and racquet head speed across the ball that I need with a spin serve, but not so much when I need to drive more directly through the ball on a flatter delivery.

 

[Ash_Smith]

Leed, you misunderstand. the OP is clearly having trouble getting the feel for the pronation on the serve. Holding the racquet with the pinky coming off it will help increase pace and also lets the racquet do more work.

I'm not sure that TimO is having trouble getting a feel for pronation, I think he's just discovered it! But we shouldn't be putting words in his mouth.

I wouldn't advise the pinky finger off the grip either, but each to his own! How does it increase pace PP?

Cheers

Ash

 

[LeeD]

While I'll agree a longer leverage arm can increase rackethead speed, this is basically NOT applicable for most recreational players!
Most of us, yes ME, can swing faster by holding the rackethandle well inside our palms.
How can we tell? Easy, just shadow swing some serves. Listen to the sound to the rackethead passing thru the air. My highest pitch is with the buttcap well an inch away from my pinkie finger, sometimes MORE.

 

[magnut]

Magnut - define "wrist-snap"

Cheers

Ash

Sheesh, I would have to go up into the attic and break out my Kinesiology and Anatomy books to truely define it. I have lost some of that info over the last two years. Then it would be a very long post.

I did the forehand once....two pages.

How about this....the moment before impact the wrist is snapped. Its combined right in there with pronatiotion (which its why its hard to see on video). The pronation kind of hides it. But there is an extension (even hyperextension) and flexion of the ___________ muscles in the forarm. Its not just pronating.

Thats the best I can tell you from a mechanical standpoint off the top of my head.

Pro hyper-extend their back on serves alot as well. It doesnt mean you should do it though. Unless you want servere back problems. It would be nice if we all had personal physios wouldnt it.

 

[Power Player]

I'm not sure that TimO is having trouble getting a feel for pronation, I think he's just discovered it! But we shouldn't be putting words in his mouth.

I wouldn't advise the pinky finger off the grip either, but each to his own! How does it increase pace PP?

Cheers

Ash

http://tt.tennis-warehouse.com/showthread.php?t=298858

Here is one TW link from folks here describing it for themselves with pics of Serena using it. I have heard a few people tell me Nick B teaches it because it increases the amount of spin you can put on the ball, therefore hitting harder and keeping it in the lines.

It is something to try..for me it made a big difference. It keeps me from really even thinking about a wrist snap and instead just letting the racquet do the work. I believe it works for more power because it keeps you using a loose grip on the racquet throughout the swing.

 

[Ash_Smith]

@Magnut - I think the problem acutally lies therefore on what we determine "wrist snap" to be. It has always been described to me to look like flexion of the wrist (as in this image)...

http://www.badmintoncentral.com/for...adminton-drills-video-forearm-pronation/page4 - scroll down about half way ( sorry for poor link!!!)

At the contact point, the wrist position would be as in the picture. However, for different people it may mean different things, until we decide what "wrist-snap" is, we cannot decide whether it exists or not!

There may be a little flexion of the wrist during the pronation (more so on a kick serve) but for me it should never be the driving thought (or force) during the serve. To deliberately "snap" the wrist in this way is a big no for me.

Cheers

Ash

 

[Ash_Smith]

I have heard a few people tell me ...increase the amount of spin? Cheers Ash

 

[Power Player]

I am not sure. I would imagine it does it because you have a nice relaxed grip and are actually generating more racquet head speed even though it feels like less effort. Once again, this is just an easy thing to try that worked for me and others, but is not written in stone by any means.

 

[Netzroller]

Interesting Thread, I've been asking myself the same question before.
I also thought the wrist snap was more a result of the entire motion rather than actually trying to actively “snap”. That's how it look on the video posted by the OP to me as well.:-?

However, here's a video of Djokovic telling that the wrist is essential to accelerating the racket (0:40). If the #2 player in the world says is, it shouldn't be entirely wrong...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R0dldQUtRbo

 

[magnut]

Okay, playing Devils Advocat - how does it increase the amount of spin?

Cheers

Ash

Its going to increase racket head speed since your bringing in more muscle groups.

If there is flexion and extension of the wrist there will be wrist snap on the serve. Pronation is different.

........I think, Like I said my biomechanic days are a little blury. Side note: ...

The most effective way to reduce memory content is to have children.

 

[GuyClinch]

1) Pros who tell you to pronate are counting wrist snap as the same as the pronation action. They are not distinguish between the words. They could just as soon tell you to pronate more but that won't make sense to average players.

2) There is flexion in a serve. It's not full basketball jump shot style flexion but your wrist flexion does increase. I don't think its accurate to say that there is no snap at all. It happens mostly after the ball leaves the strings though.

3) Since we have covered this before I am willing to concede that most of the power for both the flexion and pronation actions comes from further down the kinect chain.
You arm is acting like a whip..

 

[TimothyO]

Leed, you misunderstand. the OP is clearly having trouble getting the feel for the pronation on the serve. Holding the racquet with the pinky coming off it will help increase pace and also lets the racquet do more work.

It is nice that you don't do this, but many pros still do, and I think that means something as well.

Au contraire! I'm getting excellent pronation now that I'm not trying to snap/bend my wrist. I'm loving pronation!

It's like the pronation that occurs in a taekwondo punch. It feels natural.

 

[TimothyO]

I'm not sure that TimO is having trouble getting a feel for pronation, I think he's just discovered it! But we shouldn't be putting words in his mouth.

Cheers

Ash

Ash, you nailed it perfectly!

 

[Ash_Smith]

Its going to increase racket head speed since your bringing in more muscle groups.

Think you misunderstood - I was referring to PP's point about holding the racquet with the pinky finger off the bottom.

Cheers

Ash

 

[magnut]

1) Pros who tell you to pronate are counting wrist snap as the same as the pronation action. They are not distinguish between the words. They could just as soon tell you to pronate more but that won't make sense to average players.

2) There is flexion in a serve. It's not full basketball jump shot style flexion but your wrist flexion does increase. I don't think its accurate to say that there is no snap at all. It happens mostly after the ball leaves the strings though.

3) Since we have covered this before I am willing to concede that most of the power for both the flexion and pronation actions comes from further down the kinect chain.
You arm is acting like a whip..

Agree. There is also hype-extension of the wrist. Mostly all the wrist stuff aids in spin as the power really comes (at least it should come) from the large muscle groups of the body. Anyone practicing wrist snap without mastering rotation of the body a going to be playing with fire as you with make yourself very suceptable to injuries.

Tennis technique is very much from the ground up. Many players seem to make the mistake by learning from the top down. The result is a lot of screwy fundamentals and injuries.

 

[Ajtat411]

Isn't the power from pronation coming from the additional lever it provides, similar to why golfers roll the club face through the ball?

My pro did not incorporate my legs into my service motion until I had a better feeling of what was going on at the top. The legs add extra power.

You could basically not use your legs while pronating properly and have a decent serve already. Not efficient but I see it with older players.

 

[TimothyO]

I probably screwed up using the term "myth" in the title.

Do some folks bend/snap their wrists into contact with the ball? Yes, I've seen rec players do it. My pro told me to do it. He does it!

Do pros in the video linked in my first post bend/snap their wrists into contact with the ball? Emphatically no, they do not. I went through every single one and paused at the point of contact. Their arms are straight.

Immediately after contact their wrists remains in-line with their forearms (ie straight), but the forearm/wrist/hand start to pronate as contact is made.

I'm still not quite doing a full service with deep knee bend (I've done than before and am going to build back up to it). But I am turning my shoulders into contact and that seems the easiest way to develop confident, controllable, consistent power. Relying on wrist snap or arm swing for power seems very inconsistent and not nearly as powerful.

 

[SystemicAnomaly]

...

Yes, the pros use wrist snap on the serve. Every one of them. Very tough to see on video though.

If you can get the feel for it you will see substaintial gains in both action and power on your serve. Its not easy though. Nothing is in tennis.

I have never liked the term, "wrist snap" for tennis serves (or for badminton overheads either, for that matter). The term implies an extreme flexion and this is not the case for most elite servers. The wrist will lay back (wrist extension and some thumb-side deviation) and then move to a fairly neutral position to contact the ball. This action (from extension to neutral) can be considered a flexion action. However, the wrist does not assume a flexion position at contact or prior to contact.

Some servers may exhibit some flexion on the follow-thru, after the ball is gone. This flexion, if present, is usually mild/moderate. Many players, in an attempt to snap the wrist, may force an extreme flexion that is not really necessary and may be detrimental to the wrist.
.

 

[sureshs]

I don't see how most serves will go in unless there is some downward wrist movement just before and during contact. Exceptions are high arc second serves with incomplete finish.

 

[SystemicAnomaly]

^ spin and gravity does it, not a downward snap.

 

[sureshs]

^ spin and gravity does it, not a downward snap.

Is there enough spin in club serves, especially flattish ones?

 

[SFrazeur]

I HATE when I hear people say to "snap your wrist" on a serve. The motion is not a "snap," it is pronation. Yes. There is bound to be some fexion as a natural effect caused by the pronation.

-SF

 

[sureshs]

^^^ You can have flexion without pronation. Assuming that both will exist together, as is the case with pros, is the problem.

 

[jswinf]

Before continuing let's establish a definition: as described by my pro, several online articles, and as I've observed on the courts, the Tennis Serve Wrist Snap is when the racquet and hand snap down at the wrist as the arm is fully extended.

I agree that this sort of "wrist snap" isn't good.

I do think the muscles of the wrist should be used as the wrist is returning from the "laid-back" position as the racket drops down behind the back and the arm starts it upward, straightening. Sure, the wrist could be a completely passive flex point as the arm and rest of the body "whips" the racket, but from a laid-back wrist position wrist muscles can certainly provide some "snap" to contribute to accelerating the racket as the arm extends.

So I'm holding out for "wrist snap," but from laid-back wrist to straight wrist, not from straight to bending forward.

 

[sureshs]

So I'm holding out for "wrist snap," but from laid-back wrist to straight wrist, not from straight to bending forward.

That is a great point. I think I was including that when I said downward motion of the wrist.

 

[Kevo]

I don't see how most serves will go in unless there is some downward wrist movement just before and during contact. Exceptions are high arc second serves with incomplete finish.

With pronation it's easy to hit the ball down into the court. No wrist movement necessary. Just turning of the arm.

 

[Fuji]

Sorry just skimmed through...

What I did/do to get the hang of the "wrist snap motion" is think of my arm as a wet towel or noodle when I serve. Everything is nice and fluid, then at the end there is the *Snap* of the towel hitting something. It goes hand in hand with pronation, for me at least!

Just a different way of thinking about it, if no one else has made the analogy yet.

-Fuji

 

[SystemicAnomaly]

Is there enough spin in club serves, especially flattish ones?

So we are talking about 60-80 mph serves with only moderate spin then? I would say that gravity has a more significant effect on these slower serves.

 

[LeeD]

I suspect even low 100mph serves bend downward a lot when hit as flat as possible. A 9' hitting height is plenty, if you can clear the net by one foot.

 

[SystemicAnomaly]

I HATE when I hear people say to "snap your wrist" on a serve. The motion is not a "snap," it is pronation. Yes. There is bound to be some fexion as a natural effect caused by the pronation.

-SF

The wrist layback would be a combination of wrist extension and radial deviation. (Note: I had referred to this as thumb-side deviation in an earlier post cuz I couldn't recall wich side is radial and which side side is ulnar). The flexion "action" that occurs on the serve is from the laid back position to a fiarly neutral position at contact. There may be a slight flexion (position) after contact, but I would not refer to either of these actions as a "wrist snap".

 

[SystemicAnomaly]

I suspect even low 100mph serves bend downward a lot when hit as flat as possible. A 9' hitting height is plenty, if you can clear the net by one foot.

Yes, I agree with this. We do not really need to hit down on a serve in order for gravity to bend it downward enuff ot land in the box.

 

[magnut]

You dont snap down at the ball. The wirst snap simply complements whatever serve your hitting. Flat serves gain speed. Kick and slice serve gain action.

The biggest difference I see between professional players and those that while high level.....are not professionals......is the wrist snap, and the flexibility of the shoulders. The action they can get on the ball is pretty rediculous. I am only speaking of serving here.