Tennis vs. Racquetball stringing

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gamerluke

Rookie
In another thread I mentioned in regards to racquetball stringing that "the general consensus seems to be that those are tougher to string (hardly any common patterns and weird stringing technologies on almost every racquet)."

The next poster in that thread wondered how I decided what was "general consensus," and I realized that everyone I've talked to locally seemed to thing racquetball racquets are more challenging, but I've never had the discussion with the experts on this forum.

I string primarily racquetball and I find it challenging because pretty much every racquet has a unique pattern, many are asymmetrical patterns, many have weird technologies like no side grommets, tubes in the handles, power rings, power "hinges", shared grommets for 2 mains, etc. I've only strung a few tennis racquets but to me they were much more straightforward.

For those of you with lots of experience stringing tennis AND racquetball, what are your thoughts?
 
Racquetball are way harder. Easy after you do a few of the same model. Tennis are all similar Prettymuch. Stringing a racquetball racquet can be a challenge. Harder to find people to string them. More tecnology in racquetball stringing though with patterns.
 
LOL, takes what 10 min?

I agree, there is more patterns but still it's pretty easy to figure out unless it's one of those strange brews like the color coded ones, that you can't tell from orange, to yellow to red.

Other wise it's like a squash racquet or the mains go through and around the handle.. not that tough really.

Squash racquets.. easiest.
Badminton racquets.. there's really 3 patterns and they basically all Yonex patterns. once you know the patterns, basically, down to 9, up to 12 back to 10, it's pretty easy. the only difficulty is, it can be tedious.
 
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gamerluke said:
Well, 1 opinion from each camp. This hasn't helped at all!
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Gamerluke...What kind of help were you hoping for?

I only string racquetball racquets, but did 1 tennis and 1 squash racquet 4 years ago.

I would say that most racquetball racquets are not as easy to string as they might look or seem to be. It takes quite a few tries at the Ektelon, Head, E-force, and Wilson racquets, due to how differently they are strung and how to get the correct tension right for each different manufacturer. Example, 32 lbs set on the tensioner, might be actually 28 lbs on the strings.

It is very easy to cross strings and if you don't have the pattern(s), which are usually on their mfg sites), you will probably string it wrong, if you can even finish stringing it.

I have seen many stringing jobs done by tennis stringers and even some racquetball stringers, and I have always seen at least one and usually more mistakes on the racquet.

The hardest part again is finding what tension, via trial and error, you have to set on the tensioner to get the tension desire by the player close enough on the string bed. Especially with Head, E-force and Wilson racquets.

Side note, The top end Gearbox and Prokennex for the past 6 years, haven't changed the way they are strung. Once you do 6 or so of them, they become the easiest ones to do. But if you are not concentrating, can be the easiest to cross strings at the head and at the throat.
 
Never done a racquetball frame but the patterns make my head spin...

InstructI.jpg
 
I string primarily tennis racquets, a few squash here and there. I remember the first racquetball racquet I strung (Eforce). The pattern was ridiculous. I considered breaking the racquet and cutting my wrists. Kidding aside, it took me 2 hours...which I wont get back. But, if another one comes my way, I think it would be easier 2nd time around.

I would say tennis frames in general are more straight forward...but there are exceptions.
 
I agree with the general consensus that racquetball racquets are tougher to string. On my particular stringing machine, some racquetball racquets are too long, so in some cases you can't even do them due to equipment limitations.
 
I have been stringing tennis for roughly 30 yrs and added racquetball 2 yrs ago. For me, racquetball is more difficult. You do get used to the patterns, but things like the Head internal grommet system on the crosses and the close quarters at the throat on some frames make racquetball more challenging. I have kind of gotten the hang of the e-force tubes and don't mind those anymore. I get paid a bit more for racquetball stringing labor, but it also takes me longer..
 
I think Lionel_101 hit it right on the head. The problem is not the stringing pattern, but rather what tricks are required to get the job as tight as the user desires.

Many racquetball racquets do not have a tension range (specificalty e-force). They only say to string at 35 pounds and follow their patterns.
The challenge for the stringer is to get close to that reference tension.

Even USRSA has questioned e-force about using higher reference tensions and they will not commit to anything higher that the specified 35 pounds.

I have measured new, factory strung e-force racquets that measure 40-45 pounds with a stringmeter. Obviously they do not follow their own recommendations.

There are tricks (unorthodox stringing methods) to get tensions closer to reference, but that is why I consider these racquets much more challenging than tennis racquets.
 
Ramon said:
...On my particular stringing machine, some racquetball racquets are too long, so in some cases you can't even do them due to equipment limitations.
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Great point. Now that you mention it...the racquetball racquet i strung called for crosses bottom up. The racquet was so long...the 12 & 6 billiards on the baiardo barely touched the frame enough. Then, when I got to the top cross, I couldn't clamp it with a machine clamp (face palm).
 
I think racquetball frames are more difficult solely because there are so many different patterns that I have to have my Stringer's Manual open to follow instructions for racquetball frames. Like--through the red tube, down through the handle, to the 4th hole on the L, over to the 2nd hole on the R, down to the blue tube, around the handle.....etc". Who ever thought of these patterns? Of course, in tennis, you always have the Madraq and the Bergeline Longstring.
 
When you guys string racquetball racquets, if a customer says I want my tension @ 38#, do you set your machine to 76# since you're double-pulling the mains? I remember a video a while ago that explained on a tennis racquet that if you pull two mains at the same time at a specific tension amount that each main would then end up with half the tension selected. Is that the same concept for racquetball stringing?
 
chrisingrassia said:
When you guys string racquetball racquets, if a customer says I want my tension @ 38#, do you set your machine to 76# since you're double-pulling the mains? I remember a video a while ago that explained on a tennis racquet that if you pull two mains at the same time at a specific tension amount that each main would then end up with half the tension selected. Is that the same concept for racquetball stringing?
Click to expand...

I actually contacted some one at racquetball warehouse (same as tennis warehouse I gather) a long time ago and for the E-force racquets. The person said to add around 6 pounds of tension when pulling 2 strings (mains or crosses) with mono string and around 10 lbs when using multi- filament to the reference tension desired. I believe I posted something here a long time ago, but just to lazy to go find it. Plus, I believe that none of the racquetball racquet makers give out any information as to how they actually string their racquets and at what tensions at the factory. I wish I was a fly on the wall to see what they actually do.

I myself add 5 more lbs of tension to the reference tension anytime I have to pull 2 strings at once(mains or crosses)for any type of racquetball racquet. It seems to work for me and those I string for.

So, if I want a tension of 32 lbs when pulling 2 strings at one time, I set the tension for 37 lbs.

Right or wrong, I don't know and there is no way for me to figure out a better way of doing it. Maybe Irvin or the other Pro stringers here can chip in on what they would do if pulling two strings at one time.

I definitely would not double the reference tension as that would be to dangerous and might result in breaking the racquet.

As far as I know, there are only a couple of Youtube videos, one for E-force and another for Ektelon that shows how to string their racquets, but neither explains about tension and how to compensate when pulling two strings at once, which means to me that they don't.

Anyway just my 2 cents, but if anyone can come up with a better way, I am all ears.
 
Come to think of it, there are a few squash racquets I strung recently, where I had to double pull all the mains. Probably should have increased tension to compensate...never thought of it. I would think 6-10lbs, depending on the string would be more than sufficient as a compensation. Doubling the reference tension is more than likely way too much.
 
Sounds like to me if you had a prestretch function it would not be hard to figure out. Put a gauge on the indirect pulled string and measure what %prestretch you need to get you close. Takes out all the guess work.

On another forum I seen @jim e suggest lubricating the grommets for shear I think. Any thing that would lower friction would raise tension on the indirect pulled string. Have no idea of how much.
 
Irvin said:
Sounds like to me if you had a prestretch function it would not be hard to figure out. Put a gauge on the indirect pulled string and measure what %prestretch you need to get you close. Takes out all the guess work.

On another forum I seen @jim e suggest lubricating the grommets for shear I think. Any thing that would lower friction would raise tension on the indirect pulled string. Have no idea of how much.
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am1899 said:
Yeah could also use the prestretch function on the machine, I suppose.
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Not quite following what gauge you're referring to on the indirect string. You mean like mark it with a marker or something? Sorry, just not following how the pre-stretch functions figures it out for you.
 
One string will go down (indirectly tensioned) loop around and the string coming up will be directly tension which in turn pulls the other.
 
chrisingrassia said:
Yeah yeah, I follow that. But why is it that using pre-stretch feature on the machine will ensure both mains are at reference tension?
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I don't know that the pre-stretch feature would be any better of a solution than using, say the knot function, or manually increasing the tension on the double pulled strings. With any of those solutions, to some extent, I would think the amount of increase set (regardless of the way to go about it) is an educated guess. I, too don't quite follow Irvin with respect to "putting a gauge on an indirect string." I guess that would be aimed at figuring out what kind of loss is happening as a result of the double pull. But, I have no idea what type of gauge is being suggested, nor how that could be set up. Irvin - could you elaborate further on that? I'm intrigued.
 
If you are going to do racquetball racquets, you have to just hope you get the tension as close as possible to the reference tension wanted. I really don't think you will be getting the exact reference tension wanted on any of mains when pulling 2 at a time at the head of the racquet. Since I just have a cheap X-2, the best way for me was to just add 5 lbs to the reference tension when pulling 2 strings and hope for the best. As I mentioned, it has work out well for everyone I string racquetball racquets for. I start with the middle of the tension range as suggested by the mfg and go from there if the person thinks it is to tight or to loose.

Btw, stringing racquetball racquets is not for the faint of heart, as there are many other things that can go wrong, if you are not aware of them. Example, some racquets, you cannot properly cinch up the main tie-offs due to there location within the frame. Some you can string them as 12 or 14 or 16 mains, thus you have to use the correct gromet holes. Some have O3 holes and some have IGS (no grommets)for the crosses. Some racquets (like E-force) cannot accept 16g string, unless you wax. Some have shared gromets in the throat area that can easily be crossed if not placed correctly. Some have gromets that have both a lower and upper hole, the wrong string going through these holes will lead to cross strings on the bumper guard. Some racquets you can only mount one way period. Some racquets you have to prestring the mains without tension before mounting them to the turntable. Some have the 2 main tie offs on the same side and the the list goes on.

So, always go online to get information on the racquet and always check out an unfamilar racquet and write down where everything goes. When stringing, go slow and double check often for cross strings and other mistakes as it happens quite easily, even after doing a lot of them. In this case speed stringing will kill you, when you have to cut the strings out and start over again.

I have actually seen other stringer's handywork on racquetball racquets and most have one or more mistakes, and they still charge their customer for it. Any mistake I make, I cut the strings out and start again.

Again, just FWIW.
 
am1899 said:
I, too don't quite follow Irvin with respect to "putting a gauge on an indirect string." I guess that would be aimed at figuring out what kind of loss is happening as a result of the double pull. But, I have no idea what type of gauge is being suggested, nor how that could be set up. Irvin - could you elaborate further on that? I'm intrigued.
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I'll play around with a racket later and see if I can explain it better.
 
lionel_101 said:
If you are going to do racquetball racquets, you have to just hope you get the tension as close as possible to the reference tension wanted. I really don't think you will be getting the exact reference tension wanted on any of mains when pulling 2 at a time at the head of the racquet.
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This is a very curious statement. Seriously? I mean I've only done maybe a handful of racquetball racquets in my lifetime, but I'm always willing to string it for $20, I like to learn (and perhaps a glutton for punishment?). But I'm surprised that mftr's just keep coming up with designs that make the stringer guess at how to get reference tension. I mean, how come Head/Ektelon/E-Force/Dunlop/Wilson don't have a system figured out on how to string them? Why are they so cryptic on how to string it?
 
Most if not all of them give you the stringing patterns, the low/high tension ranges and even detailed instructions on how to string their racquets. However, they do not tell you anything about how to adjust the reference tension when pulling 2 strings (main or crosses) at one time or when tying off knots. Maybe to them and for all racquetball racquets there is no difference, but of course the people / experts in this forum know that is not true, at least for tennis racquets.

If each company would put out how they actually string and tension their racquets at the factory, it would be great. But maybe they string racquets a different way due to the volume and as that old saying goes, "do as I say and not as I do".

For me, I add 5 lbs to the reference tension when pulling 2 mains or 2 crosses at once. If my customer thinks the string bed is to tight or to loose, I adjust it and we go on until we find what he likes the best and string it exactly the same from then on.

To be honest, most average players can't tell or don't care what the tension is, as long as they can hit the ball. It is when you get to the higher level players that you have to experiment with what tensions work best for them.

Some say the factory will strings racquets at the high range or more, since they will loosen up over time and during play, but you can't add tension once it is strung.

Anyways, good luck with stringing racquetball racquets.
 
Irvin said:
I'll play around with a racket later and see if I can explain it better.
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I finally got around to playing with this. By connecting a gauge I was going to to a string to my gauge run it through a PVC Union then string 1RM & 1LM. Too much trouble forgot that.

In lieu of that I held 1RM outside the frame with a starting clamp, rann the other end of the string through 1LM, and tensioned 1LM with my tensioner. I would then plush the two string and measure tension / frequency with RacquetTune I chose tension. My reference tension and measured tension does not matter. With tensioned pulled normally I seen about 15% less tension on the indirect string 1RM (48 1LM - 43 1RM.)

PRESTRETCH OPTION - to get almost identical tensions on both string I set prestretch to 15%.

TUG OPTION - when 1LM was tensioned I would tug on 1LM to increase tension on 1RM and it got me so there was no difference in tension and the eCP kept my tension at the same initial tension that was on 1LM for both strings.
 
Irvin,

So are you saying for example that If I set the reference tension on my X-2 machine to 35 lbs, I can just pull the mains strings 2 at a time from the top and then use the TUG method to get both of them to have the exact same tension of 35 lbs? I gather you can do the same for the crosses as well ?

If this is true, do you think all stringers will start using the TUG method and cut their stringing time in half? Is it possible that the TUG method will work if you pulled 4 main strings at once at the top and cut the stringing time down even further?

I am pretty excited about it and I am going to have to give it a try and see how my racquetball racquet plays.

Thanks
 
Just thinking out loud here...the more I ponder this, increasing ref tension alone doesn't seem to solve the entire problem. As was shown the in Irvin's test, the string closest to the tension head gets more tension than the indirect string. Wouldn't one have to both increase reference (if desired) AND use the "tug option" to attempt to equally distribute the tension?

On the other hand, maybe the racquets are designed for the indirect mains to be looser, and the ones being directly tensioned to be tighter. Who the heck knows? The mfg's certainly don't seem to care to offer any guidance...
 
lionel_101 said:
Irvin,

So are you saying for example that If I set the reference tension on my X-2 machine to 35 lbs, I can just pull the mains strings 2 at a time from the top and then use the TUG method to get both of them to have the exact same tension of 35 lbs? I gather you can do the same for the crosses as well ?

If this is true, do you think all stringers will start using the TUG method and cut their stringing time in half? Is it possible that the TUG method will work if you pulled 4 main strings at once at the top and cut the stringing time down even further?

I am pretty excited about it and I am going to have to give it a try and see how my racquetball racquet plays.

Thanks
Click to expand...
No that's not what I'm saying. I would not use that 'tug' method unless it was the only option I had first of all and if I had a way to test it. Tugging on two crosses is seldom necessary and there is no way to test it. For instance there are some Prince frames where you tension the bottom two crosses by double pulling. There is no way to check the frequency of those strings.

Using an X-2 you not going to have a constant pull so when you start tugging you bar falls and you end up with a different tension.

I gave a suggestion on how you might be able to even out the tension if you needed to double pull the mains. If there is a way you can single pull that always better.
 
am1899 said:
Just thinking out loud here...the more I ponder this, increasing ref tension alone doesn't seem to solve the entire problem. As was shown the in Irvin's test, the string closest to the tension head gets more tension than the indirect string. Wouldn't one have to both increase reference (if desired) AND use the "tug option" to attempt to equally distribute the tension?

On the other hand, maybe the racquets are designed for the indirect mains to be looser, and the ones being directly tensioned to be tighter. Who the heck knows? The mfg's certainly don't seem to care to offer any guidance...
Click to expand...
I don't see why you would have to increase tension. If I'm pulling two string directly at one time then each string only supports half the tension. Using a direct and indirect method is totally different.

You're ready something from my little test that was not there. If you're stringing a racketball racket where the string go down in the handle through tubes and loop back up those tubes will have an effect on string frequency so equalizing frequency of two string may or may not work.

When Prince was in New Jersey there was a guy named Pete that worked in the string section. He would talk to you forever if you wanted. He's gone now that Prince moved but he used to string racketball all the time on the Prince stringing team. If I was stringing racketball I'd be calling every manufacturer looking for another resource like that. Who knows who does not have one until you try. Don't just assume the manufacturers won't help you. Go to some big racketball tournaments that have professional stringing teams stringing and watch to see how they do it. Look for videos there are lots of options if you look.
 
I was trying to come up with a method of equalizing tension on two mains. Who knows if it is necessary or not I doubt it. Here is how I would try to string one of these rackets if I were doing it.
Notice how he takes a little more time to pull tension while checking to ensure the stacking of the strings is correct. This too has the effect of equalizing tension as the longer the pull the closer the two string tensions will be. When stringing crosses there will also be some equalization of mains going on as I see it.
 
I am getting pretty mixed up now. I always thought a drop weight was constant pull, just that you might have to adjust the bar back to horizontal, if it starts to drop below horizontal before clamping it.

I guess I will stick with my way of just adding 5 lbs of tension when pulling 2 strings. I do string some Open level player's racquets, so I must be doing something right for them to keep having me do them. I gather the key is just to be consistent on how you tension and string a racquet on your machine (even a cheap one like my X-2), find a tension that works for a player via trial and error and then don't change anything after that.

Thanks for all the info Irvin.
 
Irvin said:
I finally got around to playing with this. By connecting a gauge I was going to to a string to my gauge run it through a PVC Union then string 1RM & 1LM. Too much trouble forgot that.

In lieu of that I held 1RM outside the frame with a starting clamp, rann the other end of the string through 1LM, and tensioned 1LM with my tensioner. I would then plush the two string and measure tension / frequency with RacquetTune I chose tension. My reference tension and measured tension does not matter. With tensioned pulled normally I seen about 15% less tension on the indirect string 1RM (48 1LM - 43 1RM.)

PRESTRETCH OPTION - to get almost identical tensions on both string I set prestretch to 15%.

TUG OPTION - when 1LM was tensioned I would tug on 1LM to increase tension on 1RM and it got me so there was no difference in tension and the eCP kept my tension at the same initial tension that was on 1LM for both strings.
Click to expand...

TUG???
 
Irvin said:
I was trying to come up with a method of equalizing tension on two mains. Who knows if it is necessary or not I doubt it. Here is how I would try to string one of these rackets if I were doing it.
Notice how he takes a little more time to pull tension while checking to ensure the stacking of the strings is correct. This too has the effect of equalizing tension as the longer the pull the closer the two string tensions will be. When stringing crosses there will also be some equalization of mains going on as I see it.
Click to expand...
I was surprised to see him tension the very first mains with the clamp sunk all the way down. What a knucklehead.
 
chrisingrassia said:
I was surprised to see him tension the very first mains with the clamp sunk all the way down. What a knucklehead.
Click to expand...

I have only really seen 2 youtube videos about restringing racquetball racquets from some one that might be associated with a company. One is on the E-force racquet and the other is this video which is a part of several videos on Ektelon racquets.

In both cases, they don't show anything that isn't already provided by the manufacturer's in terms of physically restring the racquets shown. I would have liked the videos even more, if they would explained why and how they would properly restring to a specific reference tension, say 32 lbs for both the mains and crosses. Especially, since both of them are pulling 2 mains from the top of the racquet. At the very least, they can say that due to the way the racquet is made, no added tension is required when pulling 2 mains at the top. The manufacturer should also include this information with the stringing instructions if any already on their websites.

This alone would make all stringers happy in knowing that they are stringing the racquet properly. I am surprised the racquetball or any racquet company would not have this information available, to make sure their racquets are being restrung properly and their end customers are getting the best results and will become repeat customers in the future.

I always wondered who do they have in their factories restringing the racquets. Are all of them professional stringers putting out x amounts of perfectly strung racquets or some general laborer getting peanuts per racquet and doesn't give a hoot. Does anyone know why most tennis racquets come unstrung and all the other types of racquets come pre-strung?
 
I guess there are so few racquetball players (compared to the millions that play tennis), that it makes sense to just string all racquetball racquets that a company produces. They put their cheap strings and grips into the lower cost racquets and the expensive strings and grips into their high end racquets that can go for around $275.00 or more.

When I do happen to buy a new racquet, that is what I do first, replaces the strings and put on a new grip that I like.

Btw, did any of these posts answer your question about doubling the reference tension when pulling 2 mains at once?
 
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