Tennis Warehouse: Babolat POP (wristband sensor) Playtest!!
- Thread starter TW Staff
- Start date
djNEiGht
Legend
High school PE and Intramurals. Goofing around with friends on summer break. Got serious when I met my wife who is from a tennis family. Now I play 3 or more times a week. Compete in interclub tennis at 3.5 singles and low 4.0 doubles
Describe your playing style (e.g., serve & volley):
Most of the games I play are doubles. Will move to the net as often as I can and trying to do so with serve and volley. Semi-western forehand, Eastern backhand, and I depend on serves to be at top form.
Current racquet/string:
Thin beamed players racquet MP. Prefer around 12 oz and 6-8 pts HL. Racquet I was hitting with most often the past couple of months were Pro Kennex Redondo 98 Type C, Head YouTek Prestige Pro, and Head i.Prestige MP. 1.25g shaped poly most of the time. Latest favorite is Tier One T1 Firewire 1.25 full bed or crossed with IsoSpeed Baseline Spin 1.20 at 45-48 pounds. Strung on Gamma 6 pt, fixed clamps, Tennis Head Wise 2086 with 10% pre-stretch
String set-up in test racquet:
Hit with the pre-strung Babolat Spiraltek 1.25. Second string bed was Dunlop Hexy Fiber 1.30 55#. Latest string bed is Tier One Triump 1.30 / Volkl vStar 1.25 55/50#
How many hours did you play with Babolat POP?
20 hours and 24 minutes according to app
Was POP a hindrance when playing?
I was wearing something? I use a sweat band at time so the feel was similar at most. It was lighter and you would forget you had it on. I let a friend use it for about ½ hour and he almost left the court with it because he didn’t feel like he was wearing anything
How easy was it to upload and view the data on the app?
It was easy to upload. Viewing data was also easy. Some have said that an option or different colors would be preffered. I think it was fine. If something was to be different in color, maybe to identify the different type of sessions if anything.
What did you like about the app?
I like the activity view where it shows you the days you have played by highlighting the day. I also liked the estimated ball speed info. The app was pretty easy to navigate that the anemic user manual probably wasn’t needed.
What did you dislike about the app?
I would have liked the ability to edit sessions. A few times I made some mistakes in entering data. I entered singles versus doubles or a match versus training. I would also like to have a location to view your all time record such as top speed on each stroke, longest rally, longest session. Another thing is do link up with Babolat Play racquet data. I also play a good amount of doubles as well as playing at the net. I think the sensor (both PLAY and POP/PIQ) recorded volleys as regular ground strokes.
Was there anything you thought was missing?
Ability to enter opponent names not on POP/Piq
Ability to edit sessions
Ability to see all time records
Impact locator (I understand this is different/unavailable as compared to racquet based sensors)
How did you use the data you received from the app?
I used the data to see mostly MPH/speed of the ball. I felt that the topspin/flat indicator was not accurate for my game. It is possible that the topspin swing path is measured against one of the all time top spin monsters such as Nadal, and my meager local tennis park warrior just isn’t as close to that swing path. Same goes for the STYLE results, but I know I am not the very best player out there. I am going to take that info and try and improve my preparation and smooth out my gesture.
What was your overall impression of the sensor?
Before I was picked as a play tester I highly considered purchasing one for myself. I appreciated the ability to be able to use whatever racquet I had and not change the sensor from racquet to racquet. I am also a Pure Drive Play user from time to time and would use the data to monitor my sweet spot/impact locator to improve my game. The Style points here would also do the same.
I did put in a session with both the PIQ/POP system and the PD Play racquet. The number of shots where almost the same. There was a 10 shot differential over all.
I feel that the POP/PIQ device is something I would still consider purchasing.
Thank you Babolat and Tennis Warehouse. Your efforts to include the general public in your reviews will go a long way. Many of us weekend warriors appreciate feedback and reviews from similar level players.
Describe your playing style (e.g., serve & volley):
Most of the games I play are doubles. Will move to the net as often as I can and trying to do so with serve and volley. Semi-western forehand, Eastern backhand, and I depend on serves to be at top form.
Current racquet/string:
Thin beamed players racquet MP. Prefer around 12 oz and 6-8 pts HL. Racquet I was hitting with most often the past couple of months were Pro Kennex Redondo 98 Type C, Head YouTek Prestige Pro, and Head i.Prestige MP. 1.25g shaped poly most of the time. Latest favorite is Tier One T1 Firewire 1.25 full bed or crossed with IsoSpeed Baseline Spin 1.20 at 45-48 pounds. Strung on Gamma 6 pt, fixed clamps, Tennis Head Wise 2086 with 10% pre-stretch
String set-up in test racquet:
Hit with the pre-strung Babolat Spiraltek 1.25. Second string bed was Dunlop Hexy Fiber 1.30 55#. Latest string bed is Tier One Triump 1.30 / Volkl vStar 1.25 55/50#
How many hours did you play with Babolat POP?
20 hours and 24 minutes according to app
Was POP a hindrance when playing?
I was wearing something? I use a sweat band at time so the feel was similar at most. It was lighter and you would forget you had it on. I let a friend use it for about ½ hour and he almost left the court with it because he didn’t feel like he was wearing anything
How easy was it to upload and view the data on the app?
It was easy to upload. Viewing data was also easy. Some have said that an option or different colors would be preffered. I think it was fine. If something was to be different in color, maybe to identify the different type of sessions if anything.
What did you like about the app?
I like the activity view where it shows you the days you have played by highlighting the day. I also liked the estimated ball speed info. The app was pretty easy to navigate that the anemic user manual probably wasn’t needed.
What did you dislike about the app?
I would have liked the ability to edit sessions. A few times I made some mistakes in entering data. I entered singles versus doubles or a match versus training. I would also like to have a location to view your all time record such as top speed on each stroke, longest rally, longest session. Another thing is do link up with Babolat Play racquet data. I also play a good amount of doubles as well as playing at the net. I think the sensor (both PLAY and POP/PIQ) recorded volleys as regular ground strokes.
Was there anything you thought was missing?
Ability to enter opponent names not on POP/Piq
Ability to edit sessions
Ability to see all time records
Impact locator (I understand this is different/unavailable as compared to racquet based sensors)
How did you use the data you received from the app?
I used the data to see mostly MPH/speed of the ball. I felt that the topspin/flat indicator was not accurate for my game. It is possible that the topspin swing path is measured against one of the all time top spin monsters such as Nadal, and my meager local tennis park warrior just isn’t as close to that swing path. Same goes for the STYLE results, but I know I am not the very best player out there. I am going to take that info and try and improve my preparation and smooth out my gesture.
What was your overall impression of the sensor?
Before I was picked as a play tester I highly considered purchasing one for myself. I appreciated the ability to be able to use whatever racquet I had and not change the sensor from racquet to racquet. I am also a Pure Drive Play user from time to time and would use the data to monitor my sweet spot/impact locator to improve my game. The Style points here would also do the same.
I did put in a session with both the PIQ/POP system and the PD Play racquet. The number of shots where almost the same. There was a 10 shot differential over all.
I feel that the POP/PIQ device is something I would still consider purchasing.
Thank you Babolat and Tennis Warehouse. Your efforts to include the general public in your reviews will go a long way. Many of us weekend warriors appreciate feedback and reviews from similar level players.
djNEiGht
Legend
PIQ 2863What are your scores?
My PIQ Score is 3527 total with 6/10 Style, 25 mph Speed
My community ranking is currently at #116 with the activity score of 17299.
4/10 Style
40 mph
28% spin
Community ranking is #424
Activity 10040
user name dj neight
come find me!
Tennis experience/background: Middle-aged 4.0 player who played #1 singles in high school varsity team in SoCal ages ago.
Describe your playing style (i.e. serve & volley): All court, a lot of net plays, S&V.
Current racquet/string setup: A heavily-modified Wilson ProStaff 100LS. Various string setups (mostly full poly hybrids) at low tension (around 40 lbs)
How many hours did you play with the Babolat POP? 20+ hours.
Was the device easy to attach to your wrist? Super easy.
Was POP a hindrance when playing? Not at all. I am not used to wearing watches because watches usually pull my hair on the wrist. I didn't like the wrist strap before my hitting session began, but as soon as it began, I forgot all about it.
How easy was it to upload and view the data on the app? On my Android phone, the first time I tried to upload a 2+ hour session was a disaster. It would try to upload for over 30 minutes with nothing being accomplished. Later I figured out that the app needs a more orderly operation. For example, when the app asks to synchronize by clicking a button, just ignore it (or close that window). Instead, pair your Pop device to the phone/app first. It doesn't matter whether it had been paired before your session. Just do it again. And then do the synchronization (i.e., upload), then everything will go smoothly. Viewing the data after that is easy, especially on my freakishly large phone.
What did you like about the app? It allows you to track records of your matches. You can specify the date, surface type, opponent's name, your condition, win/loss, etc. Then it tells you your "stats" as to how many forehands, backhands, volleys you hit. For each stroke (except volley), you can see the spin level, swing speed (both average and the max).
What did you dislike about the app? Being old-fashioned, I did not particularly like setting up the device because I felt the app was asking for personal data that it does not ultimately need. For example, why do I need to give it my cell phone number so I can have an activation code texted back to me? Why would it even need an activation code? When I pair my computer or phone to various bluetooth devices, they do not require me to do that.
Was there anything you thought was missing? I enjoyed doing challenge sessions, especially for the serve. You can hit a serve and the app provides me feedback immediately after with MPH and spin level. A couple of questions I need to pose on this. Whenever I hit a flat serve, the app shows my spin level as being significantly higher than when I attempt slice or kick serves. I understand that the higher racquet head speed produces higher spin, but not when it is hit mostly flat. So I am wondering if the wrist is a good place for this particular sensor and the algorithms it employs to gather and calculate data. One more thing about the serve challenge (the "Easy" 5 serve session): After the 5 serves, the app calculates the average MPH for the challenge session, and it is significantly lower than the slowest serve I hit in that session. I have checked this several times. It almost seems as though the app sums up the 5 serve speeds and divides it by 6 or 7 instead of 5.
How did you use the data you received from the app? It tells me how long my match or training session was, and it also tells me such info as I hit 2X as many forehands as backhands, etc. It would be nice if I could record the match score as well (perhaps there is a way, I am just not aware?) I must confess I don't have a good understanding of how to utilize the PIQSCORE, especially the "style" aspect, but as I use the app more and more, it will become second nature to me. I am hoping to see improvements in numbers as I keep practicing and playing matches with the POP on my wrist. I also like to use the POP for practicing serves. Although I find the spin numbers difficult to trust (therefore almost disregard them), the real-time individual MPH readings help in terms of gauging the swing speed of my arm.
What was your overall impression of the sensor? I like it. It helps analyze certain aspects of your game, and it may also help some players develop more interest in and motivation for the game.
My heartfelt gratitude to Babolat and TW for this opportunity.
Describe your playing style (i.e. serve & volley): All court, a lot of net plays, S&V.
Current racquet/string setup: A heavily-modified Wilson ProStaff 100LS. Various string setups (mostly full poly hybrids) at low tension (around 40 lbs)
How many hours did you play with the Babolat POP? 20+ hours.
Was the device easy to attach to your wrist? Super easy.
Was POP a hindrance when playing? Not at all. I am not used to wearing watches because watches usually pull my hair on the wrist. I didn't like the wrist strap before my hitting session began, but as soon as it began, I forgot all about it.
How easy was it to upload and view the data on the app? On my Android phone, the first time I tried to upload a 2+ hour session was a disaster. It would try to upload for over 30 minutes with nothing being accomplished. Later I figured out that the app needs a more orderly operation. For example, when the app asks to synchronize by clicking a button, just ignore it (or close that window). Instead, pair your Pop device to the phone/app first. It doesn't matter whether it had been paired before your session. Just do it again. And then do the synchronization (i.e., upload), then everything will go smoothly. Viewing the data after that is easy, especially on my freakishly large phone.
What did you like about the app? It allows you to track records of your matches. You can specify the date, surface type, opponent's name, your condition, win/loss, etc. Then it tells you your "stats" as to how many forehands, backhands, volleys you hit. For each stroke (except volley), you can see the spin level, swing speed (both average and the max).
What did you dislike about the app? Being old-fashioned, I did not particularly like setting up the device because I felt the app was asking for personal data that it does not ultimately need. For example, why do I need to give it my cell phone number so I can have an activation code texted back to me? Why would it even need an activation code? When I pair my computer or phone to various bluetooth devices, they do not require me to do that.
Was there anything you thought was missing? I enjoyed doing challenge sessions, especially for the serve. You can hit a serve and the app provides me feedback immediately after with MPH and spin level. A couple of questions I need to pose on this. Whenever I hit a flat serve, the app shows my spin level as being significantly higher than when I attempt slice or kick serves. I understand that the higher racquet head speed produces higher spin, but not when it is hit mostly flat. So I am wondering if the wrist is a good place for this particular sensor and the algorithms it employs to gather and calculate data. One more thing about the serve challenge (the "Easy" 5 serve session): After the 5 serves, the app calculates the average MPH for the challenge session, and it is significantly lower than the slowest serve I hit in that session. I have checked this several times. It almost seems as though the app sums up the 5 serve speeds and divides it by 6 or 7 instead of 5.
How did you use the data you received from the app? It tells me how long my match or training session was, and it also tells me such info as I hit 2X as many forehands as backhands, etc. It would be nice if I could record the match score as well (perhaps there is a way, I am just not aware?) I must confess I don't have a good understanding of how to utilize the PIQSCORE, especially the "style" aspect, but as I use the app more and more, it will become second nature to me. I am hoping to see improvements in numbers as I keep practicing and playing matches with the POP on my wrist. I also like to use the POP for practicing serves. Although I find the spin numbers difficult to trust (therefore almost disregard them), the real-time individual MPH readings help in terms of gauging the swing speed of my arm.
What was your overall impression of the sensor? I like it. It helps analyze certain aspects of your game, and it may also help some players develop more interest in and motivation for the game.
My heartfelt gratitude to Babolat and TW for this opportunity.
Babolat Official
Hall of Fame
Thank you for the helpful review. I will forward the serve speed issues to our development team and let you know when I have details. The team is constantly working to refine the app and sensor firmware, and I'm sure they are looking into issues of this nature as well.
In regards to entering match score, when you record a session from a match, you can choose to qualify that "Unqualified" session as training, match or open session. In the match option, you can enter the score.
Interesting. I am not sure exactly what is occurring, but I have definitely noted the issue and have forwarded it to the development team. I will return with details as soon as I have them.
Feel free to add me for challenges as well. I'm under Mansoor Safi on the app.
With travel and rough weather at times, I have not gotten out on court. But, I plan to get out later today
cknobman
Legend
@Babolat Official
You are missing out on a sale here because you do not have a Windows Phone app.
I want to buy one of these really badly but its useless since I dont have an Android or iPhone (and no I wont be switching or buying one).
PS. I am a Windows developer and can help you build an app for Windows phone for free. I'd be willing to work with you on this. I have one app in the store now: https://www.microsoft.com/en-us/store/apps/tennisfreak-tennis-scores-and-news/9nblgggzm801
You are missing out on a sale here because you do not have a Windows Phone app.
I want to buy one of these really badly but its useless since I dont have an Android or iPhone (and no I wont be switching or buying one).
PS. I am a Windows developer and can help you build an app for Windows phone for free. I'd be willing to work with you on this. I have one app in the store now: https://www.microsoft.com/en-us/store/apps/tennisfreak-tennis-scores-and-news/9nblgggzm801
eelhc
Hall of Fame
Played 3 sets of Doubles last night. 32 games total. Again, I don't know if I trust the data.
Everything looks within what I would expect but it's just not registering y serves. Again, nothing unusual with my service motion.
Is this a problem for me only? Anyone else see similar shot statistics?
- 70 forehands
- 45 backhands
- 75 volleys
- 11 serves
- 4 smashes
Everything looks within what I would expect but it's just not registering y serves. Again, nothing unusual with my service motion.
Is this a problem for me only? Anyone else see similar shot statistics?
Babolat Official
Hall of Fame
Thanks for the feedback. I'll see if there are any plans for a Windows Phone version at the moment.
I'm not quite sure what is going on with your results. I will follow up with the dev team to see if they have been able to pinpoint why this may be occurring. They've been working on figuring out why your results have been unexpected.
Also, I have an answer for the technology within the sensor. The POP has a 9-axis motion sensor, including: 3-axis gyroscope, 3-axis accelerometer, 3-axis magnetometer.
Babolat Official
Hall of Fame
In other news, I got a session in today. I am sitting at #765 in the rankings. Fingers crossed for warm weather here in Colorado!
racertempo
Semi-Pro
Piq is 4218.What are your scores?
My PIQ Score is 3527 total with 6/10 Style
My community ranking is currently at #116 with the activity score of 17299.
6/10 style
33 mph
53 spin.
Community is still way wrong and I submitted through the app and got a reply, but nothing has changed yet.
Kevin Snyder, charlotte, on there just for any challenges
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djNEiGht
Legend
looking for you but couldn't fine. search for me dj neightRacertempo on there just like here for any challenges
Babolat Official
Hall of Fame
Piq is 4218.
6/10 style
33 mph
53 spin.
Community is still way wrong and I submitted through the app and got a reply, but nothing has changed yet.
Racertempo on there just like here for any challenges
Hey racertempo,
I've been in contact with the dev team and they are working on a solution. I will follow up with them on a call very soon and get back to you.
Thanks for your patience!
Babolat Official
Hall of Fame
Is it crashing every time? And, are you losing the session, or does it still remain after validation?
Can you shoot me an e-mail with the details of your Play issues? msafi@babolat.com
Thanks!
djNEiGht
Legend
Early on it was crashing after validating every session. Now it's maybe every other.
I'll gather all the PLAY issues I'm having and send you an email after.
Best regards
BTW - I'll try and send you a challenge on PIQ/POP
Babolat Official
Hall of Fame
Early on it was crashing after validating every session. Now it's maybe every other.
I'll gather all the PLAY issues I'm having and send you an email after.
Best regards
BTW - I'll try and send you a challenge on PIQ/POP
Thanks, i'll keep my eyes out for it and relay to the development team.
And absolutely. Bring on the competition!
racertempo
Semi-Pro
Sorry, racertempo is my login, my community is Kevin Snyder, charlotte, nc
lidoazndiabloboi
Hall of Fame
@Babolat Official do the rankings in "Community" reset every month?
Babolat Official
Hall of Fame
Yes, they reset every month. Have to keep playing to stay on top!
djNEiGht
Legend
that's prob why I jumped up to the low 100s...darn it
djNEiGht
Legend
Found a Kevin Snyder fr Hutersville.
Babolat Official
Hall of Fame
With the challenge function, focus on hitting your best strokes, and you will get a PIQscore that is an average of all of your PIQscores in the challenge. Similar to in matches/practice, I wouldn't focus on hitting harder just to hit harder. The score is based on racket head speed, spin, and style. I would suggest working on a smooth stroke with good form. If you try to swing harder just for the sake of increasing speed, I would predict your form to break down, which will hurt your PIQscore regardless.
Dan W
New User
For those of you that finished the Playtest and have decided to continue to use this device, I'm trying to resurrect the thread in the "Other Equipment" forum for people to post their experiences and feedback with the production version of the Pop sensor. I wrote up my initial report and would love to get other people's feedback.
Link is here:
http://tt.tennis-warehouse.com/index.php?threads/babolat-pop-tennis-sensor.545814/
Link is here:
http://tt.tennis-warehouse.com/index.php?threads/babolat-pop-tennis-sensor.545814/
racertempo
Semi-Pro
That is me, I added you as a follower
Added you as well!
So to follow someone do they need to confirm....or can someone remove you from following them? I ask because I have added some local people whom I found on there and they don't show up anymore, can they remove a follower?
Babolat Official, is there work in place to add a geographical function of the community, other than by country? It would be nice to find by state, or maybe even "within X miles". Also, on the new "dashboard", the "trends" section does not have November, is that a data push after a certain time or date?
Anyone test this being used under a normal wristband? I assume it would work fine as long as it stays put, but has anyone confirmed for sure?
I used it a lot over the holiday and love it, fun information and it makes me want to play more for sure. I cannot wait to compare with my Qlipp once that is received in a couple of weeks.
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racertempo
Semi-Pro
Well, I planned on coming on here to sing the praises of the Babolat Pop as I have used for the past 2 days with no problems......or so I though. After several hours went by after my second day in a row today I checked the website to see that it was showing 9 sessions for December, when I only have 5, 3 from yesterday and 2 from today. So this occurred back in mid-October and i have never received a correct, fix, or explanation. The good thing is I played 2 matches and it is only showing the 2 matches, and I registered 1 "open play" and that is correct. So many training sessions seem to be duplicating, which makes me wonder how correct my PIQ score is since it is an average of the last 6 sessions.
I am pleased with the data as it seems accurate and it does want me to play more, as the problem from October has not reared it head again......that being said I only did one day in October, 1 day in November, and now 2 days in December. So 2 of my 4 days with activity are wildly inaccurate in terms of the number of sessions, and who know what that it doing to my PIQ score and community score. Very frustrating.
I did submit feedback through the app, but I don't expect much since they kept giving me the same corporate speak of "we are working diligently on a fix/solution and will have an answer shortly, that you for your patients" I got that response after ever single inquiry about the potential fix, and I expect I will hear the same thing again and again.
I am just so happy that Qlipp will be here in a week or two.
I am pleased with the data as it seems accurate and it does want me to play more, as the problem from October has not reared it head again......that being said I only did one day in October, 1 day in November, and now 2 days in December. So 2 of my 4 days with activity are wildly inaccurate in terms of the number of sessions, and who know what that it doing to my PIQ score and community score. Very frustrating.
I did submit feedback through the app, but I don't expect much since they kept giving me the same corporate speak of "we are working diligently on a fix/solution and will have an answer shortly, that you for your patients" I got that response after ever single inquiry about the potential fix, and I expect I will hear the same thing again and again.
I am just so happy that Qlipp will be here in a week or two.
Babolat Official
Hall of Fame
We're working on a solution for replacement bands based on everyone's feedback. If your current one is falling apart, give our warranty department a call:
1-877-316-9435 XT 284
Sujeet
New User
Hi, I have been using it for a while 20+ hours and also used "Babolat Play sensor" & Sony as well.
1) Pop records lots of FLat forehands (like 70% flat 30% topspin for me) which I guess is incorrect somehow. When I used these other sensors the results were more (like 70% topspin 30% flat for me) , so the algo is not detecting topspin forehands correctly or is too stringent.
2) Impact locator (even if slightly incorrect) will be great feature if that can be calculated by vibration\flutter somehow.
3) It should detect 2nd serves & break down serves in 1st & 2nd. (Play does that)
4) For the same wrist speed, different rackets will hit balls by different power so it should take into consideration the racket used in configuration.
1) Pop records lots of FLat forehands (like 70% flat 30% topspin for me) which I guess is incorrect somehow. When I used these other sensors the results were more (like 70% topspin 30% flat for me) , so the algo is not detecting topspin forehands correctly or is too stringent.
2) Impact locator (even if slightly incorrect) will be great feature if that can be calculated by vibration\flutter somehow.
3) It should detect 2nd serves & break down serves in 1st & 2nd. (Play does that)
4) For the same wrist speed, different rackets will hit balls by different power so it should take into consideration the racket used in configuration.
mhkeuns
Hall of Fame
I love "POP" for how it makes me want to find out the results immediately after playing. However, I do feel that it is not calculating my forehands correctly. I am more-or-less topspin drive baselines. On my backhand side, I get even numbers from topspin and flat, but on my forehand side, I get 85% flat and 15% flat.
I would also love to see how the impacts were made, but with pop, we will need other sensors on the racket to communicate with POP for it to happen.
I still like it, over all. Just need some extra functions to keep it more interesting.
Babolat Official
Hall of Fame
1. I'll note that and let the product team know.
2. This would be a nice feature to have, but I'm not sure how you could implement this on a sensor that exists only on the wrist. The vibration/flutter from the ball impact would be absorbed by the arm (and thus, muscle, tissue, bone, blood, etc). Every person has different body composition, bone density, length, etc, so I am struggling to see how to include this without including another sensor on the frame.
3. I appreciate this feedback, i'll share this with the product team.
4. That's a good point. Different frames and setups will generate different balls. It is important to note, though, that POP measures racket head speed, not ball speed. This is based on an algorithm that takes into account the frame, swing mechanics, and sensor speed.
If you're having issues with the wristband, give our warranty department a call and they can help you out.
1-877-316-9435 XT 284
MiamiWeekendWarrior
Hall of Fame
I'd love to get something like this but I'm not understanding how this can measure things like spin and racquet head speed without some kind of sensor on the actual racquet.
Worn on the wrist/forearm, how does it measure all of the things it would need to measure in order to get an accurate measure of things like spin, speed, etc...? Some people have wristier shots that might have the same forearm/lower wrist movement, which is what the sensor detects, but more wrist action than someone else so the person's hand might actually be moving faster in a given direction, which would change the speed and path of the racquet head despite both players having an almost identical forearm movement. How can this sensor tell how fast someone's racquet is moving just from the movement of their forearm?
Worn on the wrist/forearm, how does it measure all of the things it would need to measure in order to get an accurate measure of things like spin, speed, etc...? Some people have wristier shots that might have the same forearm/lower wrist movement, which is what the sensor detects, but more wrist action than someone else so the person's hand might actually be moving faster in a given direction, which would change the speed and path of the racquet head despite both players having an almost identical forearm movement. How can this sensor tell how fast someone's racquet is moving just from the movement of their forearm?
Babolat Official
Hall of Fame
You bring up good points. With the POP, it's measures your strokes based on the movement of the sensor, and we provide ratings for the different parameters (spin, style, power) rather than definite metrics as there are other variables, like strings, racket, incoming ball speed, etc that the POP cannot measure. The Spin is measured based on the sensor speed and the verticality of the shot, for instance.
For the racket head speed measurement, we use an algorithm that converts the wrist sensor speed to racket head speed. Of course, there are movements going on with the wrist that can contribute to more or less spin, to provide one example. If you're looking for a sensor for providing more in depth metrics that take into account these extra factors, we recommend the PLAY racket line as they have a sensor within the racket and can provide more data.
I hope that helps!
It can't detect those factors. All it can detect is acceleration and rotation of the band itself.
From there it can only interpolate ALL other data. It's an educated guess and nothing more driven by the opinions of the design team. Nor can it account for incoming spin on the ball and how that changes outgoing spin.
Remember too, that it can't detect your grip! Even entering a "grip type" as a factor in the software doesn't detect the reality of your grip on the handle. Grip has a huge effect on stroke production.
There have been multiple studies on biometric devices. The vast majority are simply not accurate. Some are absolutely misleading and even dangerous because they can lead a user towards actions based on faulty conclusions. The most infamous case was a blood pressure monitor sold on the Apple app store which was recently removed.
This raises interesting questions about product liability for a device such as the Babolat POP.
If a user alters his or her strokes in response to POP data resulting in injury and it's demonstrated that the data was faulty, is Babolat liable for the injury? Perhaps they would be to the same extant that any other adviser such as a coach or physio would be liable for negligent advise.
Basing your tennis development on the very limited data collected by an accelerometer or two attached to your wrist is really foolish.
MiamiWeekendWarrior
Hall of Fame
The previous two posts more or less confirm my thoughts about the POP. I can see the PLAY racquets being more accurate because the sensor is in the actual racquet. But even that must be very difficult to calibrate since it's at the base of the handle rather than closer to the frame, which would give a more accurate reading for things like racquet head speed, direction, angle, etc...
If I understand correctly, these are fairly new gadgets. I'm eager to see what the next generation of them bring. I think the ideal solution would incorporate the main sensor at the base of the handle and another sensor either at 12:00, or a pair of sensors at 3:00 and 9:00. They'd need to solve the weight issue though, although that could be done by building the sensors into the racquets and making the frame heavier or lighter in different places to adjust for the weight of the sensors once the technology gets to the point where sensor can be made that are light enough.
Does anyone know if there is anything like this in the works?
If I understand correctly, these are fairly new gadgets. I'm eager to see what the next generation of them bring. I think the ideal solution would incorporate the main sensor at the base of the handle and another sensor either at 12:00, or a pair of sensors at 3:00 and 9:00. They'd need to solve the weight issue though, although that could be done by building the sensors into the racquets and making the frame heavier or lighter in different places to adjust for the weight of the sensors once the technology gets to the point where sensor can be made that are light enough.
Does anyone know if there is anything like this in the works?
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racertempo
Semi-Pro
I had a problem today, I though you could just turn on the sensor and the onboard memory would save the session until I connect to my phone? I actually had my phone with me and paired it today, but did not have a great signal......and NOTHING is syncing from the sensor. Any ideas? My Qlipp is registering at the same time, not sure why the Pop did not. I did not have the best phone signal, 3g, but thought it would record it anyway as long as the sensor was on.
M Pillai
Semi-Pro
So what is the general conclusion on the best position for a sensor (irrespective of the actual sensor quality/brand/model)?
1. Wrist?
2. Racket handle?
3. Racket frame (throat)?
4. Racket frame (head)?
5. Racket strings (throat)?
6. Racket strings (head)?
I am really interested in the whole development of sensor technology. But not sure where is the whole thing is going to settle on when it gets more mature. I assume at least we would already have concluded where is the best location for sensor for best results.
1. Wrist?
2. Racket handle?
3. Racket frame (throat)?
4. Racket frame (head)?
5. Racket strings (throat)?
6. Racket strings (head)?
I am really interested in the whole development of sensor technology. But not sure where is the whole thing is going to settle on when it gets more mature. I assume at least we would already have concluded where is the best location for sensor for best results.
Babolat Official
Hall of Fame
That's odd, as you don't need to be paired to your phone to record a session. We recommend pairing for the first time, and then you can use the flash memory on the POP device to automatically record a session. You only need to be paired via Bluetooth and within range for live challenges.
Was your POP adequately charged? It's possible that it was low on battery and shut off during your session.
racertempo
Semi-Pro
It was charged, and I verified this morning that it showed 95% full, right now without any additional charging it shows 85%. Firmware 6.38.2505, memory 0%, app version 2.2.2115.
I connected it like normal, pairing and getting the blue bracelet ion the top corner of the app and then the pop-up showing how to wear it, so I then went to play. Checked it after 1 set and paired again, and it was not showing any sync needed.
Does the sensor color in the top corner of the app stay blue/teal when playing?
Looks like when disconnecting it goes yellow, is that right?
I open the app, Yellow app, then turn on the sensor and the app goes blue. I touch it to go the pairing screen and it actually goes yellow for a second, and it stays yellow while the "how to wear" screen shows up. When closing that screen the app corner goes back to teal.
IS that all correct? I know at come point it goes to red, but don't remember how/when it shows red.
I connected it like normal, pairing and getting the blue bracelet ion the top corner of the app and then the pop-up showing how to wear it, so I then went to play. Checked it after 1 set and paired again, and it was not showing any sync needed.
Does the sensor color in the top corner of the app stay blue/teal when playing?
Looks like when disconnecting it goes yellow, is that right?
I open the app, Yellow app, then turn on the sensor and the app goes blue. I touch it to go the pairing screen and it actually goes yellow for a second, and it stays yellow while the "how to wear" screen shows up. When closing that screen the app corner goes back to teal.
IS that all correct? I know at come point it goes to red, but don't remember how/when it shows red.
racertempo
Semi-Pro
I did a little test in the garage and all worked fine. First I paired and hit 8 shots and it recorded, then I turned both my phone and the sensor off, then turned the sensor on and hit 6 shots. Once I turned my phone on and opened the app it downloaded the shots. I am not sure what happened during play Friday, it must have turned off on its own a couple of times.
Babolat Official
Hall of Fame
It sounds like it resolved itself in your test session, but it's unusual that you were having those issues to begin with.
The colors on the app refer to the strength of the connection. This is most important when downloading a session or attempting a live session via challenge mode. The further you get away from the phone with the sensor, the poorer the connection. Red means no connection, yellow/orange is weak connection, and blue/teal is strong connection.
When you mentioned that it goes yellow for a second, and then blue, that is not uncommon. It's a slight delay that sometimes occurs, though it corrects itself rather quickly and is more of an appearance than actual slight delay in the connection. If you start to notice the wristband is going yellow, I would ensure that the sensor is not getting too far from the phone.
Moreover, the sensor will record without being paired, as you noticed in your test session. The sensor has an auto shutdown feature when no activity occurs for 30 minutes.
Can you try another set and let me know the results? I'm wondering if this is a recurring problem. I will share with the development team as well.
Thanks,
Mansoor
Anil Tipirneni
New User
I have a few questions (@Babolat Official):
1. Are there any plans to have PIQ score breakdowns for the different shots you hit (i.e. Forehand vs Backhand) and their respective types (i.e. Slice / Topspin / Flat)?
2. Are there any types of breakdowns for types of serves (Kick, Flat, Slice)?
3. I have used the POP twice so far and have noticed my forehand stats are getting screwed up since I feed in the ball hitting a soft flat shot and it significantly lowers my overall shot speed, spin, and style statistics.I never hit flat forehands so I'm 100% sure this is the case (my last set of forehands was 161 topspin, 51 flat, and 6 slice). Is there any way to work around this other than drop-hitting the first shot?
1. Are there any plans to have PIQ score breakdowns for the different shots you hit (i.e. Forehand vs Backhand) and their respective types (i.e. Slice / Topspin / Flat)?
2. Are there any types of breakdowns for types of serves (Kick, Flat, Slice)?
3. I have used the POP twice so far and have noticed my forehand stats are getting screwed up since I feed in the ball hitting a soft flat shot and it significantly lowers my overall shot speed, spin, and style statistics.I never hit flat forehands so I'm 100% sure this is the case (my last set of forehands was 161 topspin, 51 flat, and 6 slice). Is there any way to work around this other than drop-hitting the first shot?
Babolat Official
Hall of Fame
Thanks for the feedback and thoughtful questions. I'll follow up with the team to see what the plans are for these points.
One question, though. In point one, you mention PIQ Score breakdowns for different shots and their respective types. Do you mean a PIQ score breakdown for each type of shot (forehand slice, forehand topspin, forehand flat, backhand topspin, etc)? Or, did you mean PIQ Score for forehands and PIQ score for backhands, in addition to knowing how many of each shot were hit? I ask because we currently offer how many flat, slice, and topspin shots you hit for forehands and backhands.
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Anil Tipirneni
New User
I meant PIQ scores for both forehands and backhands overall in addition to PIQ scores for the respective types of slice, topspin, and flat forehands / backhands (i.e. your first assumption). I hope that answers your question.
