Nadal - GOAT
Hall of Fame
Thanks a lot for the info.. I will also try a gut/poly hybrid for my next setup of PA 23.
Though I am having a bit of Achilles tendonitis issue so may have to take a short break from tennis
. Hopefully it won't be long.
Tennis Warehouse Playtest: Babolat Pure Aero 2023
- Thread starter TW Staff
- Start date
Though I am having a bit of Achilles tendonitis issue so may have to take a short break from tennis
. Hopefully it won't be long.managed to setup PA23 #2 this arvo and decided not to cutout the Halo Multi on PA23 #1 (only had about 7-8 hours on it).
same everything, expect for the additional weight placement for matching. (oh, #2 has higher DT, just want to try higher tension and see)
surprisingly the unstrung specs are very close, except the 2.5g difference on the #2, which was easily done because of the difference in the HL balance, also.
anyway, these are my current 2 + 1 racquets in my bag, in my new racquet bag i got for my birthday las week
(lol - jus realised i used different last cross tie-off grommet on the #2, guess i wanst paying attention at the time - 7th throat tie-off would make a shorter run and neater on the side.)
same everything, expect for the additional weight placement for matching. (oh, #2 has higher DT, just want to try higher tension and see)
surprisingly the unstrung specs are very close, except the 2.5g difference on the #2, which was easily done because of the difference in the HL balance, also.
anyway, these are my current 2 + 1 racquets in my bag, in my new racquet bag i got for my birthday las week
(lol - jus realised i used different last cross tie-off grommet on the #2, guess i wanst paying attention at the time - 7th throat tie-off would make a shorter run and neater on the side.
)
TennisHound
Legend
Played some with mine yesterday, coming from a blade team. I have to get used to the “big, clunky” feel of Babolats. This one especially. Adding weight works well on this one, but maneuverability goes down quick.
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StringStrungStrang
Professional
managed to setup PA23 #2 this arvo and decided not to cutout the Halo Multi on PA23 #1 (only had about 7-8 hours on it).
same everything, expect for the additional weight placement for matching. (oh, #2 has higher DT, just want to try higher tension and see)
surprisingly the unstrung specs are very close, except the 2.5g difference on the #2, which was easily done because of the difference in the HL balance, also.
anyway, these are my current 2 + 1 racquets in my bag, in my new racquet bag i got for my birthday las week
(lol - jus realised i used different last cross tie-off grommet on the #2, guess i wanst paying attention at the time - 7th throat tie-off would make a shorter run and neater on the side.
I like the color coding !!
Lol. Thanks.
I am used to using blue grip finishing tape and “dot” on the butt cap for #1 and the same for #2 - so I can quick see which one is which when the racquet bag is in the up-right position.
the “geek” in me also must have the colour matching stringing info label inside the throat. Lol
Fed Kennedy
Legend
Whats up with that tengo thomanaged to setup PA23 #2 this arvo and decided not to cutout the Halo Multi on PA23 #1 (only had about 7-8 hours on it).
same everything, expect for the additional weight placement for matching. (oh, #2 has higher DT, just want to try higher tension and see)
surprisingly the unstrung specs are very close, except the 2.5g difference on the #2, which was easily done because of the difference in the HL balance, also.
anyway, these are my current 2 + 1 racquets in my bag, in my new racquet bag i got for my birthday las week
(lol - jus realised i used different last cross tie-off grommet on the #2, guess i wanst paying attention at the time - 7th throat tie-off would make a shorter run and neater on the side.
whats there not to like?
Fed Kennedy
Legend
Nadal - GOAT
Hall of Fame
I am interested in knowing this too. I have a friend who plays with Artengo and he loves it. Babolat, Wilson etc racquets do seem like a rip off when compared to the Tengo
. I mean one can probably buy 3 tengos instead of one Babolat.@Nadal - GOAT @Fed Kennedy
I'll comment because post-playtest I started playing with a TR960 that I acquired in trade for a different racquet.
Simply put...they're quite different
Artengo is more traditional, thin box beam, lower-powered and slightly smaller head. Definitely more control oriented, but the 16x19 definitely has more versatility. Nice feel/feedback, I don't think it is as muted as some folks in the Artengo thread say. But feel is subjective. I think it is very adaptable to different playing styles. Also it is 100% a platform frame. You could play it stock but it would be better with some mods, even light ones.
Pure Aero is modern, topspin player frame. Thicker beam for power and stability and 100 head size for forgiveness. This '23 update, however, is not super powerful and has a slightly plusher but muted feel. Still lacks some directional control, but likely not compared to other 16x19 tweeners or spin frames. This frame is more one-dimensional, if you don't have a more vertical and topspin oriented game, you'll likely work a bit harder and have to be more deliberate to not hit balls long. It will produce more spin but the higher looping kind. PA can definitely be played stock and is pretty stable.
Super long, sorry
If you have more specific questions let me know, I'll try to give my opinion.
I've used two different lead setups on the artengo.
The artengo is a nice, quality frame and is more the type I'm accustomed/prefer. PA also a super fun frame, I'm adding a leather grip and may put some lead in the throat to slow my swing down.
I'll comment because post-playtest I started playing with a TR960 that I acquired in trade for a different racquet.
Simply put...they're quite different
Artengo is more traditional, thin box beam, lower-powered and slightly smaller head. Definitely more control oriented, but the 16x19 definitely has more versatility. Nice feel/feedback, I don't think it is as muted as some folks in the Artengo thread say. But feel is subjective. I think it is very adaptable to different playing styles. Also it is 100% a platform frame. You could play it stock but it would be better with some mods, even light ones.
Pure Aero is modern, topspin player frame. Thicker beam for power and stability and 100 head size for forgiveness. This '23 update, however, is not super powerful and has a slightly plusher but muted feel. Still lacks some directional control, but likely not compared to other 16x19 tweeners or spin frames. This frame is more one-dimensional, if you don't have a more vertical and topspin oriented game, you'll likely work a bit harder and have to be more deliberate to not hit balls long. It will produce more spin but the higher looping kind. PA can definitely be played stock and is pretty stable.
Super long, sorry
If you have more specific questions let me know, I'll try to give my opinion.
I've used two different lead setups on the artengo.
The artengo is a nice, quality frame and is more the type I'm accustomed/prefer. PA also a super fun frame, I'm adding a leather grip and may put some lead in the throat to slow my swing down.
yep - pretty much what Chairman said.
my TR960 is tinkered to very close spec to the PA23, same as almost of all other racquets, so i "shouldnt" have to adjust to too many things if i want to switch around.
PA23 is my current guilty pleasure - i can do almost whatever i want at about 70%-80% of what i need to put in for TR960/UT/97P/Blade/PT2.0 (insert any thinner beam racquets). i am happy to trade off the "less" control over the other more player orientated racquets, i just need to be more relaxed and aim for larger targets.
minimal mods to the PA23 to bring to my currently preferred practice/match specs, and that thing is Stable, with a capital S!!!
anyway, for now the +1 racquet in my bag is the TR960. it is fun to use that sometimes when i feel brave. lol
Nadal - GOAT
Hall of Fame
Had another session with the PA23 stringed with confidential @ 50lbs today.. Loved it much more than the last time. FH and BH from the baseline were amazing. The racquet is very easy to swing and is quite forgiving.
My stringer is recommending me Rip control. Says will add power and comfort without affecting spin and durability much.. any thoughts?
My stringer is recommending me Rip control. Says will add power and comfort without affecting spin and durability much.. any thoughts?
If you like Confidential I'd stick with that. If you are just experimenting then I might try a hybrid before going full Rip Control.
Confidential mains and Rip crosses
This will maintain most benefits of poly but add comfort and possibly a bit of power.
May even last longer than full Confidential, I'm not familiar with how long Confidential lasts.
jmacdaununder2
Legend
Full RIP Control will definitely add comfort with something of a power boost, but spin will definitely suffer; RIP is quite durable for a multi - I can’t imagine it will outlast a poly in terms of resisting breakage.
As noted above perhaps put one foot in the water with a poly/multi hybrid first, possibility even with a slicker multi cross than RIP.
As noted above perhaps put one foot in the water with a poly/multi hybrid first, possibility even with a slicker multi cross than RIP.
Nadal - GOAT
Hall of Fame
I am actually liking confidential the more I play with it.
Have now done a total of 5 hours and I think the recent 2 have been the best. I have never played with a multi and I like your suggestion of maybe trying a hybrid.
Nadal - GOAT
Hall of Fame
For me durability is important as it is a bit of a hassle getting my racquet restrung too frequently.
I play for about 12 hours in a month and would ideally want to restrung every 1-1.5 months. So say about 12-18 hours of play. Would you have any specific string recommendations keeping this durability in mind?
GimmeBackMyDog
Rookie
I've only used Hyper G.
But one thing to try might be the Solinco Outlast.
Cheaper and I think it has good durability.
One guy on the Pure Aero VS thread a while back swore it was the best string in that racket.
So it might be worth a try.
Nadal - GOAT
Hall of Fame
How long does your Hyper G last you?
GimmeBackMyDog
Rookie
I honestly don't know. I go to a class where I'm subbing in and out a lot during drills.
Intermediate, so the balls are also not coming in as fast as what some people here might be hitting during practice.
Been to about 10 or 15 one and a half hour classes with the VS and haven't had to change them out yet.
Still trying out strings. Have only use RPM Blast and Hyper G.
KC!
Hall of Fame
I get about 15-18 hours out of them. It’s still playable after it goes dead, just becomes a little harsh on arm though. I have a pair of racquets and change every 3 weeks.
Great comments over the last few days, all of you.
I continue to keep the PA23 in the bag, as it's just such an enjoyable frame, from serving to ground strokes, even not half-bad on volleys -- this coming from someone who, like many of you, has been grounded on thinner, boxier beam control frames, some with more tweener characteristics than others.
IMHO, the PA23 is quite possibly the best bridge frame for someone looking to get into this genre. The tighter mains allow for a more direct and/or flat swing path with pleasing enough results, even though it's not really the optimal stroke mechanic to get the most out of it. When I play the PA23, I'm consistently finding myself in some combination of having to and wanting to use a more western grip on the forehand, and switching from a Wawrinka-style flat OHBH to a more swipey, Gasquet-style, or, more often than not, a 2HBH, as it just seems more optimized for the PA23 (high twist weight, cumbersome for just one wrist). I'm still coming to grips with more uncontrollable launches than I'd like, usually when I don't setup properly and hit too flat without enough face angle worked into stroke, but overall, it's a whopper of a frame, a job really well done by Babolat.
As a value-add to the thread, I think TennCom did a fantastic job recently of casing through all generations of the Aero, and they came to the conclusion that the PA23 is overall the best one yet, which is very interesting, if not telling, on how good a job Babolat did:
As for customization, I'll repeat myself as I did before -- the PA23 is highly tuned in stock form, and is very sensitive to added weight. In my opinion, it doesn't really need any weight towards 9 and 3, and only 1-3g at the most at 12, with minimal counterbalance in/around the handle. I personally only needed 1.5g at 12 for a 328SW with Black Knight 1.28, plus one over grip, to get the racquet playing just about perfect. So to everyone playing with weight, I would take it easy: increment in .5 to 1g amounts, and with such a high twist weight already, keep it close to the 12/6 centerline, as it certainly doesn't need much, if any, out at the sides.
As for strings, the best I've tried so far is still Black Knight 1.28, with tension in the low-mid 50's (lockout, so ~50 on an eCP). This gives you a medium-firm, calm, dampened, controlled, grippy string bed with high playable longevity -- a nice counter to the frame being fairly raw in feel, having a decent amount of trampoline and still being a string-eater (despite the tighter pattern). I'm still intent on trying Grapplesnake Tour M8 1.30, either full bed or as a cross to a shaped poly main in of 1.28 to 1.32 gauge, and also YTEX Penta Power 1.28, and will report back on that soon enough.
I continue to keep the PA23 in the bag, as it's just such an enjoyable frame, from serving to ground strokes, even not half-bad on volleys -- this coming from someone who, like many of you, has been grounded on thinner, boxier beam control frames, some with more tweener characteristics than others.
IMHO, the PA23 is quite possibly the best bridge frame for someone looking to get into this genre. The tighter mains allow for a more direct and/or flat swing path with pleasing enough results, even though it's not really the optimal stroke mechanic to get the most out of it. When I play the PA23, I'm consistently finding myself in some combination of having to and wanting to use a more western grip on the forehand, and switching from a Wawrinka-style flat OHBH to a more swipey, Gasquet-style, or, more often than not, a 2HBH, as it just seems more optimized for the PA23 (high twist weight, cumbersome for just one wrist). I'm still coming to grips with more uncontrollable launches than I'd like, usually when I don't setup properly and hit too flat without enough face angle worked into stroke, but overall, it's a whopper of a frame, a job really well done by Babolat.
As a value-add to the thread, I think TennCom did a fantastic job recently of casing through all generations of the Aero, and they came to the conclusion that the PA23 is overall the best one yet, which is very interesting, if not telling, on how good a job Babolat did:
As for customization, I'll repeat myself as I did before -- the PA23 is highly tuned in stock form, and is very sensitive to added weight. In my opinion, it doesn't really need any weight towards 9 and 3, and only 1-3g at the most at 12, with minimal counterbalance in/around the handle. I personally only needed 1.5g at 12 for a 328SW with Black Knight 1.28, plus one over grip, to get the racquet playing just about perfect. So to everyone playing with weight, I would take it easy: increment in .5 to 1g amounts, and with such a high twist weight already, keep it close to the 12/6 centerline, as it certainly doesn't need much, if any, out at the sides.
As for strings, the best I've tried so far is still Black Knight 1.28, with tension in the low-mid 50's (lockout, so ~50 on an eCP). This gives you a medium-firm, calm, dampened, controlled, grippy string bed with high playable longevity -- a nice counter to the frame being fairly raw in feel, having a decent amount of trampoline and still being a string-eater (despite the tighter pattern). I'm still intent on trying Grapplesnake Tour M8 1.30, either full bed or as a cross to a shaped poly main in of 1.28 to 1.32 gauge, and also YTEX Penta Power 1.28, and will report back on that soon enough.
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StringStrungStrang
Professional
For those fans of Tier One strings - check out their Black Friday specials. I just received an email blast, but open to all.
@Trip is right and thanks for a great summary of the Babolat Pure Aero 23. It's a great racquet - easily one of the best in the APD / PA lines. If you are drawn to this type of racquet - you will love it! It can be anything you want / need from a PA with some strings and mild tuning.
Where I think the PA 23 gets really interesting (as @Trip alluded to) is for players who wouldn't normally consider themselves PA fans. It really delivers to this group as well! We all know about power and spin, but it delivers stability, feel and control that would make switching easy for many. Love the volleys. It is just a lot of fun.
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yeah i agree. didnt have great matches yesterday, it was definitely me, not the PA23.
coming from more of players frames to PA23 recently, sometimes i still get "too excited" with too much of a big swing sometimes, so the ball goes out. still need to fine tune "hitting a larger target" and "not push too much, so the balls doesnt go outside the lines". still love the effortless power though.
@StringStrungStrang and @esm - Very much agreed. The effortless power and redirection capability is very reminiscent of the wider-tipped Prince CTS Synergy frames of the 90's, minus the excessive static weight and overly dense center mains (made for much flatter hitting with mostly nat or syn gut back then). The PA23 is one of the better, more evolved takes on controlled power.
Nadal - GOAT
Hall of Fame
I am also having trouble keeping the ball in court sometimes and am also switching from a players frame. Relieved to know I am not the only one.
Today for instance i was struggling with my FH especially on high balls. I hit too many of them long. Ofcourse it probably has more to do with my technique rather than the racquet. Though when I played with my pure strike 18*20, the same shots landed in. I guess I just need some time to get used to the new found power.
@Nadal - GOAT - Compared to the PA23, the PS 18x20 Gen3 has noticeably more swing weight and even higher twist weight -- ie. a fair amount more mass in the head -- so you're likely used to generating much more effort to pivot the racquet about the balance point as you come through your stroke. Also, the string pattern is overall tighter and less bouncy/dynamic on the PS 18x20, so you're having to supply more racquet head action to impart similar launch angle, spin, etc. Couple all of that with the fact that you body hasn't had a chance to completely re-map its muscle memory to those physics differences, and boom, there's your recipe for the overhits. Now, you just need enough exclusive play time with the PA23 to force new muscle memory, and you'll be good. It could take a while, though.
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Nadal - GOAT
Hall of Fame
Thanks for your inputs. It completely makes sense. I am now playing exclusively with the PA 23.
My BH and Serve are going great now. Took a couple of sessions to adjust and I feel very comfortable and confident with them. Love the added power and spin. Especially the increase in spin is very noticeable on my serves.
FH is taking a bit of time. Hopefully it will be sorted soon.
naturalexponent
Legend
I don't need this temptation!
@naturalexponent - After being used to VCP 97H, a PA23 is going to be quite the change, to say the least. If you go for the plunge, I would say look for a deal on a used PA23 to have at your disposal for a long-term trial, for IMHO, there's very little chance you'll ever come to a consensus over just one demo period, coming from such a different frame.
naturalexponent
Legend
Ever the voice of reason, @Trip.
Do people still have pain with rackets if they use soft poly or multi poly hybrid?? Maybe some people with rackets with polys don't MIX...MAYBE it's the person and not the setup... maybe some people have sensitivity to certain waves or frequency caused by stiff racket with stiff string. Otherwise mo matter the racket n string setup would cause you problems
@berkyboy - To address what you're proposing: yes, varying people will have varying reactions to the PA23 or any racquet for that matter. That being said, I would argue there's beyond enough anecdotal evidence to suggest that softer-flexing, lower-Hz feedback frames, also those with higher levels of recoil weight, will typically be less linked to arm pain. If you can agree with that, then I think it's reasonable to say that while the PA23 is certainly one of the more comfortable Aero's, it's by no means an out-and-out choice for those looking to guard their arms, and needs to be trialed on a case-by-case basis, at the very least.
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Vicious49
Legend
I have never been a Babolat person as I don't like the hollow tinny feel of their frames. The PA23 does not feel hollow and actually has a pretty solid feel to it. It is quite a change coming from lower powered control frames but the easier power is a bit addicting. I recently tried the PAVS and couldn't gel with it due to the feel. I'm much preferring the PA23.
@Trip I'm guessing the PA23 isn't beating out the MP-L as your primary?
@Vicious49 - Right now, I'm mostly MP-L, but not fully decided. The positives about the PA23 are very positive -- it's quite possibly the best serving stick I've ever used. Ground strokes are mostly great, although it's really a better fit for a more western forehand and a two-handed backhand, and I'm more southwestern on the forehand and primarily a one-hander on the backhand (although I've played both lately, with similar enough results when I go 2HBH with the Aero). The easy power is also quite addictive. On the flip side, the slightly head-heavier balance and thicker hoop does make it feel more cumbersome than the MP-L, especially on volleys, short pickups and anything more stationary in nature. The Aero is also a bit more exhausting to play with, mostly because I find it really demands you keep the racquet head speed and brushing of the ball up at requisite levels, at pretty much all times. Get tired, or get lazy, or both, and I tend to pay for it more often than I do with the MP-L -- and this is at customized identical balance and swing weights. So it's a bit of a trade off, with the MP-L currently in front just because I tend to play more consistently with it overall. But that could change, especially as I head inside to the bubbled clay courts for the winter. For now, both stay firmly in the bag, that's for sure.
Vicious49
Legend
I agree with you on most of that. I have an Eastern FH grip and am naturally a OHBH who was trying to learn a 2HBH when I had elbow issues a few months back. The PA23 does seem more geared toward the 2HBH. On the FH I don't have any issues as long as I remember to accelerate in a slow to fast stroke as opposed to my more linear acceleration I do with heavier control frames. I love using the PA23 against baseliners but against guys who slice a lot and force you to come in I end up switching to my EFS Tour or VC95.
Yeah, I would echo your thoughts, too. I actually shouldn't knock the PA23 for OHBH use -- I actually find it quite stable, with that high twist weight and wide beam providing a nice "cradle" to the stroke, helping to fight against would-be instability-causing items such as incoming spin, pace, wind, unsteady muscles, etc; but, on the flip side, that same high twist weight and the thick neck (as you look at it perpendicular to the hoop) make pronation of the wrist from the middle to the end of the stroke a bit harder, and I feel that resistance is best overcome and turned into a strength by the 2HBH. So that's what I end up reverting to with the PA23, more often than not. As for the forehand, I would also agree, that as long as you remember to accelerate your ground stroke, you'll usually end up in pretty good territory, especially since the frame produces such a nicely curved ball, more so than a flat one, ala the Prestige, so you get a bit more natural safety margin built into more ground strokes, on average. But again, this is presuming you can keep RHS and brush-up at minimum or better levels.
Funny that you mention the EFS Tour and VC95 -- I have both, and enjoy both from everywhere on the court as well, although I do find the wider spacing of the mains on the Elevates to get launchy if I don't make a concerted effort to brush my ground strokes in the same way that I do with the PA23. The VC95 is a great attacking and all-court scalpel, but is harder to defend with than the PA23, that's for sure.
Funny that you mention the EFS Tour and VC95 -- I have both, and enjoy both from everywhere on the court as well, although I do find the wider spacing of the mains on the Elevates to get launchy if I don't make a concerted effort to brush my ground strokes in the same way that I do with the PA23. The VC95 is a great attacking and all-court scalpel, but is harder to defend with than the PA23, that's for sure.
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Nadal - GOAT
Hall of Fame
Could you please elaborate on what you mean here. I also somehow find PA 23 more cumbersome during volleys as compared to pure strike. I am a little confused why so considering the PA has lower swing weight. Now ofcourse PA is 100 inches as opposed to Pure strike being 98. Is the bigger head size the main reason?
Also any tips how to adapt would be appreciated.
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I'll comment because I actually found the PA23 decent for volleys.
I'd say the 100sqin head and the thick beam can make it cumbersome for volleys.
I believe mine is probably closer to TW's original average SW of 318 versus the revised 322. Which is why I feel mine has decent maneuverability.
But it can also be the balance, 33cm is not extremely HL.
When you think of racquets "designed" for volleying they are typically more HL.
Tips to adapt: early prep with the racquet, keep the racquet head up, split step, volley drills, tailweight with a leather grip or other weight in the handle to make it more HL.
Nadal - GOAT
Hall of Fame
Thanks a lot, that's helpful.
Twist weight and beam thickness
naturalexponent
Legend
You were right (Vader voice).
I could definitely adjust to it over time and it let me get away with A LOT, but it's just not the game I enjoy playing, nor would I want to make those long-term adjustments at the expense of the game I already play. I did get a Rafa PA19 for the cosmetic when the price went down, so I think my "long-term" trial will be with that. But time and time again I think it's the heavy, head-light stuff that does it for me.
Still, it's fun as hell to hit with this thing even for a short period of time. And I can get lazy with my 1hbh and still hit a decent shot.
That's partially what I'm feeling to, a lower MGR/I on the PA23, even customized, than a lot of our more naturally head-light narrower-beam sticks, and it demands different body mechanics to make it work to its utmost. Not unattainable by most of us, but it does require a retooling, that's for sure. I'm still trying to ascertain over whether it would be worth it for my game... will probably have a better clue once I play it on clay more.
Getting my PA2023 demo tomorrow, and just so happened that I took out my good old 2013 APD for the past week and I always forget how amazing this racquet is and how it feels like it's cheating when I play with it. I am very much looking forward to doing a head to head with these 2 racquets and will report back hopefully in a few days.
liftordie
Hall of Fame
It's a great stringer. Listen to him. He wants to save your arm.
Vicious49
Legend
Pretty much all of this. Due to the head size and beam thickness it's not as maneuverable as a 21mm frame. It is super stable on volleys if you can get prepared in time.
GimmeBackMyDog
Rookie
Still haven't hit the PA23 yet.
I've been using a PAVS and was waiting for the PA98 to come out.
Never got on with my two regular Pure Aeros.
That being said, I switched out the RPM Blast strings in my 2017 Pure Aero for Hyper G and it felt really good today.
It's obviously RPM Blast just doesn't work me. No pocketing for feel with them.
I'll probably order some Solinco Confidential and Solinco Outlast and see if I like them as much as the Hyper G.
I've been using a PAVS and was waiting for the PA98 to come out.
Never got on with my two regular Pure Aeros.
That being said, I switched out the RPM Blast strings in my 2017 Pure Aero for Hyper G and it felt really good today.
It's obviously RPM Blast just doesn't work me. No pocketing for feel with them.
I'll probably order some Solinco Confidential and Solinco Outlast and see if I like them as much as the Hyper G.
