Tennis will Shrink after Djokovic retires, it will need a New Federerlike player to take it out of the doldrums....

Razer

Razer

G.O.A.T.
1990s gens have been weak and impotent as we all know, now it seems even the 2000s gens ain't far better, or at least the ones who will uplift Tennis from this generation have not yet arrived. Guys aged 20-23 are getting injured, unable to play tournaments leading upto the slams. At an age when youth should kick out the old farts they are actually struggling to stay fit..... Pathetic...

Alcaraz and Sinner are not as great as we think they are, they will win a few slams for sure but they cannot reach double digits, they are not of that level.

Tennis needs a new Federer who will just rise and take control of Tennis with a firm grip. If Roger was born 20 years later then today he would taken control of the tennis, likewise we need someone young to emerge, a person who will not get injured, a person who can play an entire year and win some 75-80 matches with ease and 3 slams an year,then replicate it after that...that kind of a force is required now to save Tennis.... that is the type of player who can captivate the kids who are growing up now, otherwise we will see Tennis shrink IF these fellows are the best that sports has to offer.

Alcaraz, Sinner etc etc are all just average fellas, none of them will hit double digits, wait and watch.....once Novak is done we will find young players unable to defend slams. You might think it is an interesting era when anyone can win but on the contrary viewers like constant winners...the familiar faces that we can relate to.... Tennis is too stagnant now and in a moribund state as we speak.

We need a new Federer ... an enigma... !
 
Rosstour said:
Djoko is shrinking tennis dude

There has been zero suspense at Slams for years and years now, that isn't good for the game
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Wrong

Djokovic is the one who is at least keeping tennis afloat..... Sure he is no Federer but he is the last of the familiar faces who are truly great..... people like to either hate him or love him but I dont think people want him gone.

We need someone really great to arrive, don't blame Djokovic.....blame the youngsters.
 
Razer said:
1990s gens have been weak and impotent as we all know, now it seems even the 2000s gens ain't far better, or at least the ones who will uplift Tennis from this generation have not yet arrived. Guys aged 20-23 are getting injured, unable to play tournaments leading upto the slams. At an age when youth should kick out the old farts they are actually struggling to stay fit..... Pathetic...

Alcaraz and Sinner are not as great as we think they are, they will win a few slams for sure but they cannot reach double digits, they are not of that level.

Tennis needs a new Federer who will just rise and take control of Tennis with a firm grip. If Roger was born 20 years later then today he would taken control of the tennis, likewise we need someone young to emerge, a person who will not get injured, a person who can play an entire year and win some 75-80 matches with ease and 3 slams an year,then replicate it after that...that kind of a force is required now to save Tennis.... that is the type of player who can captivate the kids who are growing up now, otherwise we will see Tennis shrink IF these fellows are the best that sports has to offer.

Alcaraz, Sinner etc etc are all just average fellas, none of them will hit double digits, wait and watch.....once Novak is done we will find young players unable to defend slams. You might think it is an interesting era when anyone can win but on the contrary viewers like constant winners...the familiar faces that we can relate to.... Tennis is too stagnant now and in a moribund state as we speak.

We need a new Federer ... an enigma... !
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we need a new sampras, that would be a real shot in the arm, someone who dominates and wins double digit slams using serve and volley, but can hang from the baseline too. A player like monfils with a rafter like kick serve and edberg's reflexes at the net, and who is not a headcase.
 
Rosstour said:
Djoko is shrinking tennis dude
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GAS said:
LOL... Djokovic is just not popular enough to sustain mainstream interest in tennis.
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Exactly. No matter what he does in stats he has very little appeal compared to Federer and Nadal, and always has been that thrid wheel until they were in their twilights. The ATP TRIED to lead men's tennis with him, but Djo isn't carrying the excitement in tennis at all now that Federer and (essentially) Nadal are done. So the ATP was VERY quick to put Alcaraz as the big ticket guy with the Sinner rivalry, and tennis is in a much better position for interest, match suspense and drama, and bright sportsman with good character in those two.

Even as a long time Nadal Fan and Federer appriciator, I have been ready for the next era to begin. Djo is that last stale holdvoer that, unfortunately, is just misdirecting some attention from the marketable young players. When he bows out, the ATP will be in a fine place....if all of them can keep injuries in check. But I see that being addressed soon in some tour changes....that's for another thread I suppose.
 
I don’t get people that say they hate modern tennis and spend so much time on a tennis website.

Tennis is doing fine. Fan interest is strong across the world and all the major tournaments regularly sell out.

And LOL at no one caring about Novak. Even here at TTW the most commented match threads tend to include Novak. for example of the top 5 most commented match threads 4 include Novak (3 include Nadal)

never have so many across the world either played or watched tennis. Part of that is tech, in the past you either watched a match live on broadcast TV or you missed it. Those days are, thankfully, long gone. Also as countries have gotten richer a greater % of the population can now play tennis

Money is also much better for players and this goes way beyond inflation. It’s a much more professional sport today (as are all sports). More physios, and trainers, and levels of training and commitment that didn’t exist before
 
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GAS said:
LOL... Djokovic is just not popular enough to sustain mainstream interest in tennis.
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Exactly. Tennis didn't collapse when Roger retired and his world-wide popularity is 500 times what Djokovic's ever was. It's hilarious that anyone thinks one player is bigger than the game. Nadal will soon be retired, Novak might have a year or two left. Tennis and life will go on and new stars will emerge.
 
Tennis will be fine if Sinner and more importantly, Alcaraz stay healthy. Alcaraz already gets a bigger pop from the crowd than Djokovic ever has. The Big 3 isnt needed, but people compelling and at least good enough to be in their orbit are at least needed.

Good example is track and field, sprinting in particular, a much more objective sport than most sports. Although sprinting isn't as popular as when Michael Johnson or Usain Bolt around, it still gets solid interest in the 200m and is probably even more popular than the 100m with people like Noah Lyles and Knighton/Tebogo even though none of them are probably going to break Bolt's record, but they're at least close enough and compelling(Lyles) or young and promising(Knighton/Tebogo).

The 100m, which is usually the most popular event by a lot, has lost some juice over the years for example because no one has even gotten close to Bolt's 100m.

The best example though is probably the long jump which was really popularity back in the day, but lost most of its popularity since no one has even gotten close to its world record in like 30+ years now and no one's even cracked the top 10 in almost 15 years.
 
ChaelAZ said:
Exactly. No matter what he does in stats he has very little appeal compared to Federer and Nadal, and always has been that thrid wheel until they were in their twilights. The ATP TRIED to lead men's tennis with him, but Djo isn't carrying the excitement in tennis at all now that Federer and (essentially) Nadal are done. So the ATP was VERY quick to put Alcaraz as the big ticket guy with the Sinner rivalry, and tennis is in a much better position for interest, match suspense and drama, and bright sportsman with good character in those two.

Even as a long time Nadal Fan and Federer appriciator, I have been ready for the next era to begin. Djo is that last stale holdvoer that, unfortunately, is just misdirecting some attention from the marketable young players. When he bows out, the ATP will be in a fine place....if all of them can keep injuries in check. But I see that being addressed soon in some tour changes....that's for another thread I suppose.
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Novak's problem is he hasn't had a younger rival, or indeed any rival, (Nadal has only really rivaled him at the French Open) for a very long time.

Federer, like Sampras, had a whole host of younger talent ready to overtake him as he declined, with Nadal, Djokovic, and Murray leading the charge.

Novak on the other hand has been the default winner of slams for much of the last 7 years, after already being the top dog for much of the early 2010s.

During his best years he was still being pushed to 5 sets fairly regularly as well, whereas the last few years where his own generation have all but retired, his paths to slam wins have gotten easier as the toothless 90s born players started to fill the gaps.

For instance at the 2023 French Open he looked awful. He was slow, he looked tired, he was making errors etc, and yet he won it without having to play a single 5 set match.

Nadal is in the same position as Djokovic here but he at least had the Fedal rivalry which had everything; contrasting styles, older/younger dynamic, the frequency of their meetings at the latter stages of big tournaments. It was a marketers wet dream.

It sucks that Alcaraz has his injury problems right now as the sport really needed both he and Sinner to be healthy, so we could actually have a next gen worthy of the title.

In summary, people are just bored of Djokovic, even though the problem isn't his fault.
 
Razer said:
Wrong

Djokovic is the one who is at least keeping tennis afloat..... Sure he is no Federer but he is the last of the familiar faces who are truly great..... people like to either hate him or love him but I dont think people want him gone.

We need someone really great to arrive, don't blame Djokovic.....blame the youngsters.
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Do you just make stuff up? Djokovic matches get disappointing TV ratings, his USO final match in 2021 v medvedev when history was on the line for a calendar slam got less viewers than the womens final!!
TV ratings for tennis now are a disaster since Federer retired and Nadal hasnt been regularly playing.
Also tournaments that say they are having record attendances may not be telling the truth, i was in Indian Wells this year and the crowds seemed alot lower than when ive been before and friends who went to Australia said the same.
Tennis is fast becoming a nothing sport globally. It is in trouble.
 
Hood_Man said:
Novak's problem is he hasn't had a younger rival, or indeed any rival, (Nadal has only really rivaled him at the French Open) for a very long time.

Federer, like Sampras, had a whole host of younger talent ready to overtake him as he declined, with Nadal, Djokovic, and Murray leading the charge.

Novak on the other hand has been the default winner of slams for much of the last 7 years, after already being the top dog for much of the early 2010s.

During his best years he was still being pushed to 5 sets fairly regularly as well, whereas the last few years where his own generation have all but retired, his paths to slam wins have gotten easier as the toothless 90s born players started to fill the gaps.

For instance at the 2023 French Open he looked awful. He was slow, he looked tired, he was making errors etc, and yet he won it without having to play a single 5 set match.

Nadal is in the same position as Djokovic here but he at least had the Fedal rivalry which had everything; contrasting styles, older/younger dynamic, the frequency of their meetings at the latter stages of big tournaments. It was a marketers wet dream.

It sucks that Alcaraz has his injury problems right now as the sport really needed both he and Sinner to be healthy, so we could actually have a next gen worthy of the title.

In summary, people are just bored of Djokovic, even though the problem isn't his fault.
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Much of that is exactly why Djokovic is not seen as GOAT as that is what sports fans see. Djokovic sadly just isnt that well known outside of tennis because he never really had a real rivalry that transcended the sport. Federer-Nadal captivated the world. Sampras-Agassi did, Borg-McEnroe did, in other sports Senna-Prost did, Ali-Frazier did.
Djokovic was during peak Fedal years 3rd behind them and then when they faded, his potential great rival Murray had to have a hip replacement. Lendl had a very similar problem. He was dominated by McEnroe and Connors at slams in the early 80's then when they declined he took over while Becker and Edberg were very young in the mid 80's, so he never really had that rivalry that transcended the sport.
None of the above is Djokovic or Lendl's fault, it's just unfortunate. Sampras was having a similar problem in 1994 and 1995, but the sudden reincarnation of Agassi into a more professional individual finally realising his talent was a god send for Sampras as Sampras v Agassi put tennis on the map.
 
Thundergod said:
Tennis will be fine if Sinner and more importantly, Alcaraz stay healthy. Alcaraz already gets a bigger pop from the crowd than Djokovic ever has. The Big 3 isnt needed, but people compelling and at least good enough to be in their orbit are at least needed.

Good example is track and field, sprinting in particular, a much more objective sport than most sports. Although sprinting isn't as popular as when Michael Johnson or Usain Bolt around, it still gets solid interest in the 200m and is probably even more popular than the 100m with people like Noah Lyles and Knighton/Tebogo even though none of them are probably going to break Bolt's record, but they're at least close enough and compelling(Lyles) or young and promising(Knighton/Tebogo).

The 100m, which is usually the most popular event by a lot, has lost some juice over the years for example because no one has even gotten close to Bolt's 100m.

The best example though is probably the long jump which was really popularity back in the day, but lost most of its popularity since no one has even gotten close to its world record in like 30+ years now and no one's even cracked the top 10 in almost 15 years.
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spot on
 
Razer said:
1990s gens have been weak and impotent as we all know, now it seems even the 2000s gens ain't far better, or at least the ones who will uplift Tennis from this generation have not yet arrived. Guys aged 20-23 are getting injured, unable to play tournaments leading upto the slams. At an age when youth should kick out the old farts they are actually struggling to stay fit..... Pathetic...

Alcaraz and Sinner are not as great as we think they are, they will win a few slams for sure but they cannot reach double digits, they are not of that level.

Tennis needs a new Federer who will just rise and take control of Tennis with a firm grip. If Roger was born 20 years later then today he would taken control of the tennis, likewise we need someone young to emerge, a person who will not get injured, a person who can play an entire year and win some 75-80 matches with ease and 3 slams an year,then replicate it after that...that kind of a force is required now to save Tennis.... that is the type of player who can captivate the kids who are growing up now, otherwise we will see Tennis shrink IF these fellows are the best that sports has to offer.

Alcaraz, Sinner etc etc are all just average fellas, none of them will hit double digits, wait and watch.....once Novak is done we will find young players unable to defend slams. You might think it is an interesting era when anyone can win but on the contrary viewers like constant winners...the familiar faces that we can relate to.... Tennis is too stagnant now and in a moribund state as we speak.

We need a new Federer ... an enigma... !
Click to expand...
Yeah no, Djokovic at the top has already ruined tennis. Him being at the top is counterproductive for the game. If anything, tennis will become more popular when he retires
 
The ATP made $147 million last year, a record. The attendance at all 4 Slams was broken and the twilight session attendance record on the final Sunday of the AO was broken by almost 15,000 fans. Attendance in Cincinnati was also huge. The men's game is doing fine and who exactly do you think is the main man in the game right now? Obvious answer if you saw who got the most attendance at IW this year. For those that think the ratings haven't been the same since Federer, Alcaraz/Djokovic in the Wimbledon final peaked at 11.3 million in the UK which is higher than any final in the last 15 years that didn't include Murray. It also got great ratings in the US. The 2023 Roland Garros final was the most watched in France since the 2012 final.

So I know that doesn't fit your narrative but Djokovic is what is keeping the interest in tennis. Federer is gone and Nadal hardly plays. To answer the OP, I agree to an extent that we will see a drop when Djokovic walks away but I don't think we need another dominant player but instead tennis needs interesting rivalries. I think the new generation has some interesting players but these guys have got to step up and bring it on the court. Also, so many young players getting injured just isn't good for the game.
 
Razer said:
Wrong

Djokovic is the one who is at least keeping tennis afloat..... Sure he is no Federer but he is the last of the familiar faces who are truly great..... people like to either hate him or love him but I dont think people want him gone.

We need someone really great to arrive, don't blame Djokovic.....blame the youngsters.
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Couldn't disagree more. He's not a popular figure to carry the tennis. He might be keeping tennis afloat in Eastern Europe but in traditional tennis territories like Europe , USA and Australia he hasn't .
 
when the debate on goat non stops despite the most successful OAT was born, u can find how djoker is not so well received by majority of tennis audience
 
BeatlesFan said:
Exactly. Tennis didn't collapse when Roger retired and his world-wide popularity is 500 times what Djokovic's ever was.
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The wild, unabashedly comical player Kyrgios has 4 million followers on Instagram without having done anything significant in his career. I am quite convinced that the media could have made Novak an indisputable media goat and thrown Federer into oblivion if they wanted to. Of course, they will not spend their resources to change the already established story on a 37-year-old person, but will try to use those resources on a person who is turning 21 today.
 
Apun94 said:
Yeah no, Djokovic at the top has already ruined tennis. Him being at the top is counterproductive for the game. If anything, tennis will become more popular when he retires
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Popular how ? Who will make it popular ? Stars make any sport popular, the current youngsters are not that big stars in any way, is Sinner popular ?

NeutralFan said:
Couldn't disagree more. He's not a popular figure to carry the tennis. He might be keeping tennis afloat in Eastern Europe but in traditional tennis territories like Europe , USA and Australia he hasn't .
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He never carried Tennis in those regions outside Eastern Europe, so expecting him to do that now would be wrong since he is old. Infact kids and teenagers now cannot connect with Djokovic no matter what, they want someone close to their age group because for them Djokovic is like an uncle/an old man, they need people closer to them in age or a young athlete in 20s to connect with. Novak is a father figure to the young viewers, they won't connect with him. Thats why we need a younger Federer ..... Sinner and Alcaraz are not enough, they are like Hewitt/Roddick/Safin type characters in stardom, they are no Federer.

NoleFam said:
To answer the OP, I agree to an extent that we will see a drop when Djokovic walks away but I don't think we need another dominant player but instead tennis needs interesting rivalries. I think the new generation has some interesting players but these guys have got to step up and bring it on the court. Also, so many young players getting injured just isn't good for the game.
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Interesting rivalries between Great players who are chasing records or creating some is what is needed. Audience need to feel that they witnessing something special, thats what keeps people interested. Those shoes are too big to be filled, sinner and alcaraz don't seen to be good enough to fill those shoes....
 
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messiahrobins said:
Much of that is exactly why Djokovic is not seen as GOAT as that is what sports fans see. Djokovic sadly just isnt that well known outside of tennis because he never really had a real rivalry that transcended the sport. Federer-Nadal captivated the world. Sampras-Agassi did, Borg-McEnroe did, in other sports Senna-Prost did, Ali-Frazier did.
Djokovic was during peak Fedal years 3rd behind them and then when they faded, his potential great rival Murray had to have a hip replacement. Lendl had a very similar problem. He was dominated by McEnroe and Connors at slams in the early 80's then when they declined he took over while Becker and Edberg were very young in the mid 80's, so he never really had that rivalry that transcended the sport.
None of the above is Djokovic or Lendl's fault, it's just unfortunate. Sampras was having a similar problem in 1994 and 1995, but the sudden reincarnation of Agassi into a more professional individual finally realising his talent was a god send for Sampras as Sampras v Agassi put tennis on the map.
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So Nadal was not a rival to Djokovic? They are of the same age. :rolleyes:


Nadal being connected to Federer throughout the 2000s overshadowed his rivalry with Novak but saying that Novak had no rivals is so lame. Plus Federer himself was having some exciting heat with Novak in 2000s and in 2010s, even though their clash was not peak for peak always the rivalry did exist enough to generate interest in crowd. If Novak's personality and game lacks personality and he is seen a villain then that is another issue, saying he had no rivals means you are oblivious to reality...
 
it’s too late.

2017-2019 were fun last hurrah inflation years for the big 3, but we needed a healthier and better version of Alcaraz/sinner to show up in 2020 for titan battles with old djokovic like w23 final for example.
Would’ve increased interest in tennis seeing him being pushed, and boosted his legacy having to face some actual younger greats.
Seeing a mid 30s man waltzing to easy slam after easy slam playing a serviceable level , with most younger peak players sh*tting their pants and choking away every advantage possible isn’t a good look for the sport.

This farce it’s what’s allowed him to inflate his stats to a ridiculous amount. 18-20 slams should’ve been around the limit for all big 3.
 
Razer said:
So Nadal was not a rival to Djokovic? They are of the same age. :rolleyes:


Nadal being connected to Federer throughout the 2000s overshadowed his rivalry with Novak but saying that Novak had no rivals is so lame. Plus Federer himself was having some exciting heat with Novak in 2000s and in 2010s, even though their clash was not peak for peak always the rivalry did exist enough to generate interest in crowd. If Novak's personality and game lacks personality and he is seen a villain then that is another issue, saying he had no rivals means you are oblivious to reality...
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after 2013 djokovic has been feasting on the tour. His rivalry with nadal became surface dependant. Federer declined too much to be a threat. murray broke his back then hip. Wawrinka only showed up sporadically. Thiem’s career at the top was ended by injury.

We’re left with Djokovic mopping up mentally fragile clowns like zverev, Tsitsipas, Ruud, korda with no real difficulty
 
fedfan24 said:
it’s too late.

2017-2019 were fun last hurrah inflation years for the big 3, but we needed a healthier and better version of Alcaraz/sinner to show up in 2020 for titan battles with old djokovic like w23 final for example.
Would’ve increased interest in tennis seeing him being pushed, and boosted his legacy having to face some actual younger greats.
Seeing a mid 30s man waltzing to easy slam after easy slam playing a serviceable level , with most younger peak players sh*tting their pants and choking away every advantage possible isn’t a good look for the sport.

This farce it’s what’s allowed him to inflate his stats to a ridiculous amount. 18-20 slams should’ve been around the limit for all big 3.
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fedfan24 said:
after 2013 djokovic has been feasting on the tour. His rivalry with nadal became surface dependant. Federer declined too much to be a threat. murray broke his back then hip. Wawrinka only showed up sporadically. Thiem’s career at the top was ended by injury.

We’re left with Djokovic mopping up mentally fragile clowns like zverev, Tsitsipas, Ruud, korda with no real difficulty
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Reality is that people never respect/like/connect with an old man winning over youngsters but they love a young man winning because youth always gives hope for the future while old means the future is dark.

There was a vacuum in 01-06 as well but nobody (at least most ) did not take offense at Federer winning lot of Slams then but 18-23 is seen as an abomination for Djokovic by a few, now in the same vein if a young ATG had arrived in 2020 like you said and picked up most of the slams until 2024 then nobody would question the lack of a rival young ATG, but Nole is criticized .... well that is human mentality, people just don't connect with the older man beating up less talented youngsters but youngsters beating up others is an exciting prospect.
 
THUNDERVOLLEY said:
Its certainly not Alcaraz. No one cares about him at all.
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Alcaraz playing style excites spectators. Enough exposure to Alcaraz will make him very popular. Let's see if this happens...

As for Djokovic playing style... well, you know. He doesn't excite anyone that watches him and he's only known for winning a lot and since 2020 his politics.
 
Hitman said:
Do you think there is a shortage of butthurt Fedal fans out there who will never forgive him from taking the records from their idols, after they invested 20 years in the race and didn't get the outcome they wanted?
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Thats also true, lot of people did not like the 3rd guy emerging out of nowhere in 2011, before 2011 Djokovic was more of a Murray type character below the Fedal league, but 2011 suddenly was a huge splash. He derailing the FEDAL train has not gone well with people. We have many fellows who are saying Djokovic is shrinking tennis by continuing to play.... lol... what a dumb thing to say..... Instead of asking the Youngsters to step up they are begging for Djokovic to just go away..... cringe
 
Razer said:
Thats also true, lot of people did not like the 3rd guy emerging out of nowhere in 2011, before 2011 Djokovic was more of a Murray type character below the Fedal league, but 2011 suddenly was a huge splash. He derailing the FEDAL train has not gone well with people. We have many fellows who are saying Djokovic is shrinking tennis by continuing to play.... lol... what a dumb thing to say..... Instead of asking the Youngsters to step up they are begging for Djokovic to just go away..... cringe
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They don't want to acknowledge that though, it is always because of his bad behavior or political views or something else....addressing the elephant in the room is what needs to be done. I know for a fact many here had no issues with Djokovic until he became a threat to their favorites and started to take away titles and records from them. To say that doesn't play a significant part, or pretend like it is a non-factor is cute. A lot hate him for the pain he inflicted in some very tough losses to their favs, and him getting all the big records on top of that....well, it's human nature.
 
Hitman said:
They don't want to acknowledge that though, it is always because of his bad behavior or political views or something else....addressing the elephant in the room is what needs to be done. I know for a fact many here had no issues with Djokovic until he became a threat to their favorites and started to take away titles and records from them. To say that doesn't play a significant part, or pretend like it is a non-factor is cute. A lot hate him for the pain he inflicted in some very tough losses to their favs, and him getting all the big records on top of that....well, it's human nature.
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Bad behavior is nothing if we have the charm to be liked by certain section of public. We've seen Federer hit ball boys with the ball and everyone just chuckled... that happened because people are already in so much awe of him that even being hit by Federer is seen as some sort of a honor/good luck etc etc, now weird as it sounds when Novak makes a mistake then he seen as someone who had it coming. If Federer had hit that lady at US OPen 2020 by mistake then pretty sure she would have told the referee that it is probably her mistake that she was slow on her feet, but in Novak's case she fell down, she felt like she was in double pain and even pressed charges on court to get him DQ'd..... so that is that.... it is human psychology

In the end it is probably fair that Djokovic holds the records now. If people are angry then let them be, they deserve to be.
 
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