Tens Of Thousands Of Sandbaggers???

Backboard

New User
Some of you have said that nearly all teams competing at Sectionals & Nationals are loaded with ringers, sandbaggers,etc. and some say they are all cheaters. Well, clearly some poeple just like to whine. But others may not understand. So here are a few things to consider:

1. NTRP levels are just numbers. The USTA could have chosen colors; green blue, red etc. The purpose was to achieve some level of consistency so that players could compete against others of roughly the same ability.

2. The USTA defines what type of performance is acceptable at each level. I do not define the levels and neither do any of the bloggers on this site. The level of acceptable performance for each NTRP category is very broad.

3. The USTA HAS ALREADY pretty clearly defined what constitutes acceptable performance for each level and they used verifiers to implement their standards. (Verifiers were eliminated a few years ago for cost savings reasons and replaced by the computer algorithms driven by match scores.) The verifiers had to go through mandatory training and they were paid (not voluteers) by the USTA to do their job. Verfiers attended all National and Sectional tournaments as well as many district championships. Players wore numbers pinned to their back to facilitate the evaluation process. Captains could protest if they felt an opposing player was too strong for their level. Players deemed too strong by verifiers were DQed. The point here is that the USTA (through their verifiers) defined what peformance level was acceptable for each NTRP range. It worked this way for over 10 years and the standard was very consistent year to year.

4. The results of this process were 1) a practical definition of what performance level is acceptable at each NTRP level and 2) a reasonable amount of consistency across the country. I'm not saying the system did not have problems, because it did. I'm just relating what happened. The narative descriptions of levels are so general they are of little use. So a practical definiton emerged from actual USTA practice & administration.

5. At Nationals MOST (not all) matches are very competitive for both men & women at all levels. At Sectionals most matches are competitive as well. There is clearly a good deal of consistency across the country _ at least at higher levels of acceptable performance. But there are many lopsided matches at the local level.

6. Over the past 10 + years, the level of play at Nationals has been remarkably consistent year-to-year. For example, the overall skill level of competition at this year's Men's 3.0 Nationals was no better than the Men's 3.0 Nationals 10 years ago and actually somewhat lower in 2007. Same goes for 3.5, 4.0 etc. If there had been verifiers in 2007, the same teams and same players would have been competing at Nationals _ because they were within the historical standards of what is acceptable play defined by the USTA.

7. Over the last 10 + years tens of thousands of men & women at all levels have played at Sectionals & Nationals. Some people would claim that most were sandbaggers _ and that of course would mean tens of thousands of sandbaggers over the years. Other claim that you MUST have a bunch of sandbaggers to reach Nationals. This is largely a PERCEPTION problem. The STANDARDS OF ACCEPTABLE PLAY AS DEFINED BY THE USTA IS SIMPLY HIGHER THAN SOME PEOPLE REALIZE. Some may diagree with how the USTA has established those standards, but it is what it is.

8. If you want to get a good feel for what is "acceptable performance", watch a National tournament or a Sectional finals. That is the standard of acceptable play intentionally established by the USTA. Players with greater than acceptable skill levels are DQed.

BOTTOM LINE
Has there been tens of thousands of sandbaggers over the years? Of course not. Do some individuals have a different view of what should be acceptable performance at various levels? For sure!

I'm sure there are some case of cheating & sandbagging but really very few across the country. The USTA has defined what is an acceptable standard of play for each level and the vast majority of players (including Sectional & National players) fall within that acceptable range. And yes the range is very broad.

It is fine to say we should change the standards. Perhaps lower the standards for each level or perhaps have more levels. If you want to see change I'm willing to sign the petition. But it is not OK to paint all National players and teams as sandbaggers & cheaters. They are playing within the rules & within the standards of acceptable skill levels established by the USTA. And those standards of acceptable play have remained pretty consistent over the last 10 + years.

MISCELLANEOUS
The USTA chose to make the NTRP categories very broad. The USTA website tells us that a very high level 3.5 player is EXPECTED to beat a very low level 3.5 player by a score of 6 - 0, 6 - 0. (I did not make that up.) Many people say that that is ridiculous. Well, I agree. I'm not defending the system, that's just how it works. And actually the situation is worse because the standard of acceptable play is set somewhere above the high end of each level. Years ago there were many fewer League players and it would have been difficult to have more NTRP levels. Now the number of players is dramatically higher and having more NTRP levels probably makes a lot of sense. More NTRP levels would equate to narrower skill ranges & closer matches.

Many of us did see dramatically more players DQed in 2007 especially at the lower levels. We can't be sure but it looks like the USTA tighten it's tolerance levels within the computer to perhaps begin lowering the standard of play at various levels.
 

tfm1973

Semi-Pro
i didn't have time to read all that. so you're saying you're a sandbagger?

LOL. just messin. it looks like you are pretty fired up about this particular topic. let it go dude. only a few people really care. why don't you and javier get together for coffee or get together on IM and discuss.

SPOILER: heath ledger dead at 28?!?!
 

goober

Legend
How many different ways can you say the same thing and start a thread about it? Evidently an unlimited amount.

Carry on Mr. "Strong" 3.0. You will rock the USTA leagues with your crusade.
 

tfm1973

Semi-Pro
why can't we discuss tea bagging?

aight fine fe6250. what level tea bagger are you? are you a STRONG 3.0 tea bagger? maybe you tea bagged in college or as a junior? maybe you tea bagged with Dr. Phil? you should post some videos on youtube and we can rate your tea bagging. on these forums it doesn't matter if you're a professional tea bagger - we'd all rate you 2.5 probably for improper form or poor technique.
 

fe6250

Semi-Pro
aight fine fe6250. what level tea bagger are you? are you a STRONG 3.0 tea bagger? maybe you tea bagged in college or as a junior? maybe you tea bagged with Dr. Phil? you should post some videos on youtube and we can rate your tea bagging. on these forums it doesn't matter if you're a professional tea bagger - we'd all rate you 2.5 probably for improper form or poor technique.

I would be considered a strong 2.87364 tea bagger. My overhead is a little weak and my dunking technique lacks consistency. I'm going to work hard in the off season though and tryout for a team so I can display my bagging on the national stage. Rock on!
 

goober

Legend
I would be considered a strong 2.87364 tea bagger. My overhead is a little weak and my dunking technique lacks consistency. I'm going to work hard in the off season though and tryout for a team so I can display my bagging on the national stage. Rock on!

Uh I thought you were talking about the other type of tea bagging. Actually I am glad you are not. If you don't know what I am talking about google tea bagging and slang.
 

tfm1973

Semi-Pro
fe6250 - you are certainly lying. there's no way you could know that you are 2.87364 tea bagger. only sectional coordinators would know your actual rating 5 decimal places and they never reveal that to anyone. i'm beginning to think you are a sandbagging tea bagger. i hope you enjoy your national 3.0 tea bagging trophy because as far as i'm concerned it's tainted.
 

eagle

Hall of Fame
Yikes!

Didn't know what tea bagging meant until I googled it and found this:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Teabagging

----------
Teabagging is a slang term for the act of a man placing his testicles, specifically the *******, in the mouth[1] or face of another person, often in a repeated in-and-out motion.[2] The practice vaguely resembles dipping a tea bag into a cup of tea[3][4][5]
----------
 

moonshine

New User
6. Over the past 10 + years, the level of play at Nationals has been remarkably consistent year-to-year. For example, the overall skill level of competition at this year's Men's 3.0 Nationals was no better than the Men's 3.0 Nationals 10 years ago and actually somewhat lower in 2007. Same goes for 3.5, 4.0 etc. If there had been verifiers in 2007, the same teams and same players would have been competing at Nationals _ because they were within the historical standards of what is acceptable play defined by the USTA.

I'm sorry Backboard, are you saying that you were at Nationals 10 years ago? If not, then how can you begin to say that the level of play was the same then as it is now? If you were at Nationals 10 years ago (and I'll assume the 3.0 level since that is what you are playing now and you swear you aren't sandbagging) and the level HAS BEEN consistent over the last 10 years, then that means you are the exact same level of player you were then despite 10 years of practice and matchplay. The level may seem the same relative to your performance, but you would be lying if you said you were the same level of player as you were 10 years ago.

Having played league tennis for more than 10 years, I can say that league tennis is much stronger at each level than it was when I started. I have had to work really hard to stay ahead and improve my rating because normal improvement just keeps you at your level due to everybody else improving similarly.

Look, I respect the fact that your team won the National Championship, and I offer you a sincere congratulations from someone who also made it out of Texas, but came up short at Nationals. I know what a difficult task it is to do what your team did. Likewise, I was called a sandbagger etc. But please, for all that is good in the world, DROP THIS SUBJECT. GET OVER IT. You are the one who keeps bringing up this topic, and I am asking you nicely - please, please, please with a cherry on top - stop posting topics on sandbagging.
 

JavierLW

Hall of Fame
Some of you have said that nearly all teams competing at Sectionals & Nationals are loaded with ringers, sandbaggers,etc. and some say they are all cheaters. Well, clearly some poeple just like to whine. But others may not understand. So here are a few things to consider:

1. NTRP levels are just numbers. The USTA could have chosen colors; green blue, red etc. The purpose was to achieve some level of consistency so that players could compete against others of roughly the same ability.

2. The USTA defines what type of performance is acceptable at each level. I do not define the levels and neither do any of the bloggers on this site. The level of acceptable performance for each NTRP category is very broad.

3. The USTA HAS ALREADY pretty clearly defined what constitutes acceptable performance for each level and they used verifiers to implement their standards. (Verifiers were eliminated a few years ago for cost savings reasons and replaced by the computer algorithms driven by match scores.) The verifiers had to go through mandatory training and they were paid (not voluteers) by the USTA to do their job. Verfiers attended all National and Sectional tournaments as well as many district championships. Players wore numbers pinned to their back to facilitate the evaluation process. Captains could protest if they felt an opposing player was too strong for their level. Players deemed too strong by verifiers were DQed. The point here is that the USTA (through their verifiers) defined what peformance level was acceptable for each NTRP range. It worked this way for over 10 years and the standard was very consistent year to year.

4. The results of this process were 1) a practical definition of what performance level is acceptable at each NTRP level and 2) a reasonable amount of consistency across the country. I'm not saying the system did not have problems, because it did. I'm just relating what happened. The narative descriptions of levels are so general they are of little use. So a practical definiton emerged from actual USTA practice & administration.

5. At Nationals MOST (not all) matches are very competitive for both men & women at all levels. At Sectionals most matches are competitive as well. There is clearly a good deal of consistency across the country _ at least at higher levels of acceptable performance. But there are many lopsided matches at the local level.

6. Over the past 10 + years, the level of play at Nationals has been remarkably consistent year-to-year. For example, the overall skill level of competition at this year's Men's 3.0 Nationals was no better than the Men's 3.0 Nationals 10 years ago and actually somewhat lower in 2007. Same goes for 3.5, 4.0 etc. If there had been verifiers in 2007, the same teams and same players would have been competing at Nationals _ because they were within the historical standards of what is acceptable play defined by the USTA.

7. Over the last 10 + years tens of thousands of men & women at all levels have played at Sectionals & Nationals. Some people would claim that most were sandbaggers _ and that of course would mean tens of thousands of sandbaggers over the years. Other claim that you MUST have a bunch of sandbaggers to reach Nationals. This is largely a PERCEPTION problem. The STANDARDS OF ACCEPTABLE PLAY AS DEFINED BY THE USTA IS SIMPLY HIGHER THAN SOME PEOPLE REALIZE. Some may diagree with how the USTA has established those standards, but it is what it is.

8. If you want to get a good feel for what is "acceptable performance", watch a National tournament or a Sectional finals. That is the standard of acceptable play intentionally established by the USTA. Players with greater than acceptable skill levels are DQed.

BOTTOM LINE
Has there been tens of thousands of sandbaggers over the years? Of course not. Do some individuals have a different view of what should be acceptable performance at various levels? For sure!

I'm sure there are some case of cheating & sandbagging but really very few across the country. The USTA has defined what is an acceptable standard of play for each level and the vast majority of players (including Sectional & National players) fall within that acceptable range. And yes the range is very broad.

It is fine to say we should change the standards. Perhaps lower the standards for each level or perhaps have more levels. If you want to see change I'm willing to sign the petition. But it is not OK to paint all National players and teams as sandbaggers & cheaters. They are playing within the rules & within the standards of acceptable skill levels established by the USTA. And those standards of acceptable play have remained pretty consistent over the last 10 + years.

MISCELLANEOUS
The USTA chose to make the NTRP categories very broad. The USTA website tells us that a very high level 3.5 player is EXPECTED to beat a very low level 3.5 player by a score of 6 - 0, 6 - 0. (I did not make that up.) Many people say that that is ridiculous. Well, I agree. I'm not defending the system, that's just how it works. And actually the situation is worse because the standard of acceptable play is set somewhere above the high end of each level. Years ago there were many fewer League players and it would have been difficult to have more NTRP levels. Now the number of players is dramatically higher and having more NTRP levels probably makes a lot of sense. More NTRP levels would equate to narrower skill ranges & closer matches.

Many of us did see dramatically more players DQed in 2007 especially at the lower levels. We can't be sure but it looks like the USTA tighten it's tolerance levels within the computer to perhaps begin lowering the standard of play at various levels.

Im not going read all that, it's like your hunderdth post on the same topic.

Nobody said "there are tens of thousands of sandbaggers". That is an idea that you made up entirely on your own.

Stop being silly. You are ruining any argument that you possibly had as well as any shread of credibility.

And you're making all the other sandbaggers look bad.
 

North

Professional
To the OP
Now, do you get your checks from the USTA in the mail or direct deposit?







Sorry, couldn't resist....:eek:
 
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cknobman

Legend
My oh my this is quite the treat. Backboard making yet another thread about sandbagging.

Sounds like youve been sandbagging 3.0, 3.5 for 10 years.
Kinda stinks! Youd think after 10 years you would at least be good enough to sandbag at 4.0 by now.
 

burosky

Professional
How does that question go? If a tree falls in the middle of the forrest ...

As long as people reply, the OP will continue to post about the same thing over and over.

Oooops. I just replied myself. I should use the ignore list.
 

Jracer77

Rookie
Backboard I'm not sure I"m getting what you're saying yet. Maybe if you would go into a little more detail I would understand.
 

JavierLW

Hall of Fame
Backboard I'm not sure I"m getting what you're saying yet. Maybe if you would go into a little more detail I would understand.

I agree, we need more threads where we can complain about sandbagging, there cant possibly be enough.

(even though it's January in many place now and some of us are not even playing league tennis)

Even if someone was wrong and they accused someone as being a sandbagger because they lost.:

If they let it go and just play tennis and have fun in other ways, only a weak minded person who is insecure about themselves and feels they have something prove would care.

However if the person who complained about sandbagging went on and on and on and on about it where it consumed them, and that's all you heard coming out of their mouth, a lot of us would turn our heads and probally would get sick of hearing them. Not because we care or disagree with what they say, but because they are just being a total whiner and nobody wants to hear someone who is constantly crying and complaining all the time.

Even if there are sandbaggers out there, most of us would prefer to just play tennis and enjoy it, and as far as the cheaters out there, the league is what it is.... (Im certainly going to suggest it's not fair and it could be fixed though, but obviously if I was depressed and upset about it, I wouldnt even be playing in the league at all)

And Backboard is whining about other people who he perceives as whiners. He keeps going on and on about it and he wont let it go. That doesnt say a lot for him.

But it could be fun, if he wants to make thread after thread just to provide us an oppurtunity to show us how much of a whiner he can be, all the power to him.

So in a way he's providing a public service message to us all. Next time you are unhappy about something that you didnt particularly care for (may it be cheating, sandbagging, or something someone said), dont be like Backboard.

You can choose to handle it with some class and let it go, or you can make a total fool out of yourself, it's your choice.
 

fe6250

Semi-Pro
Does anyone know where I might find some useless information on USTA sandbagging and whining? I've looking all over this board and have been unable to find any threads on this topic ;-). Much appreciated.
 

fe6250

Semi-Pro
fe6250 - you are certainly lying. there's no way you could know that you are 2.87364 tea bagger. only sectional coordinators would know your actual rating 5 decimal places and they never reveal that to anyone. i'm beginning to think you are a sandbagging tea bagger. i hope you enjoy your national 3.0 tea bagging trophy because as far as i'm concerned it's tainted.

You are just a whiner like all the rest of them!!! ;-)
 

safins back

New User
Please post some names and locations of these people suspected of bagging so we can look up results and form our own opinion.
 

goober

Legend
Does anyone know where I might find some useless information on USTA sandbagging and whining? I've looking all over this board and have been unable to find any threads on this topic ;-). Much appreciated.

No but if you want to get in some teabagging action there will be some takers, uh just don't ask me.
 

Vermillion

Banned
Yikes!

Didn't know what tea bagging meant until I googled it and found this:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Teabagging

----------
Teabagging is a slang term for the act of a man placing his testicles, specifically the *******, in the mouth[1] or face of another person, often in a repeated in-and-out motion.[2] The practice vaguely resembles dipping a tea bag into a cup of tea[3][4][5]
----------

I liked the "Useful Tennis Tips" right after reading about teabagging
 

randomname

Professional
backboard, this is your sixth thread about sandbagging, youve obviously made whatever point you've been trying to get across so please just stop
 

beernutz

Hall of Fame
You all may have been wondering what backboard actually looks like. I did a google search and found his picture.

Behold, the ...













Troll%20King6.jpg
 

10sguy

Rookie
Note: OP suggested more NTRP levels as follows: "Years ago there were many fewer League players and it would have been difficult to have more NTRP levels. Now the number of players is dramatically higher and having more NTRP levels probably makes a lot of sense. More NTRP levels would equate to narrower skill ranges & closer matches."

OP, if you were as knowledgeable as you apparently would like readers to think, you'd understand that MANY clubs/parks, etc. wouldn't have enough players at, for example 3.0 to 3.24, 3.25 to 3.49, etc., to even field teams. These levels were pilot tested in the Southern Section and were not received well.
 

Backboard

New User
Note: OP suggested more NTRP levels as follows: "Years ago there were many fewer League players and it would have been difficult to have more NTRP levels. Now the number of players is dramatically higher and having more NTRP levels probably makes a lot of sense. More NTRP levels would equate to narrower skill ranges & closer matches."

OP, if you were as knowledgeable as you apparently would like readers to think, you'd understand that MANY clubs/parks, etc. wouldn't have enough players at, for example 3.0 to 3.24, 3.25 to 3.49, etc., to even field teams. These levels were pilot tested in the Southern Section and were not received well.

10sguy,
I never claimed to be very knowledgeable.

I did not know that more narrow ranges had been piloted in the Southern Section. Do you know what people did not like about it? The idea was simply that more narrow ranges would give more competitve results. It would be interesting to hear about your experiences with that pilot.

You make a good point about not enough players. There certainly are a lot more league players now than years ago _ but maybe not enough to have more levels. In Dallas we have more than 30 level 3.5 teams and more than 30 level 4.0 teams so we would be enough players to have more narrow ranges. But you are probably right, various clubs and parks across the country might not have the numbers to make it work.
 
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Applesauceman

Semi-Pro
I'm stunned, still another post?! Some congratulations are in order!

So has everyone congratulated you to your hearts content? Let congratulate the winners, congratulate the losers, congratulate the sandbaggers, congratulate the self-raters, congratulate sportsmanship, and most of all let's congratulate the USTA for putting up with all of our ****. Grace and peace to us all.
 

Backboard

New User
I'm sorry Backboard, are you saying that you were at Nationals 10 years ago? If not, then how can you begin to say that the level of play was the same then as it is now? If you were at Nationals 10 years ago (and I'll assume the 3.0 level since that is what you are playing now and you swear you aren't sandbagging) and the level HAS BEEN consistent over the last 10 years, then that means you are the exact same level of player you were then despite 10 years of practice and matchplay. The level may seem the same relative to your performance, but you would be lying if you said you were the same level of player as you were 10 years ago.

Having played league tennis for more than 10 years, I can say that league tennis is much stronger at each level than it was when I started. I have had to work really hard to stay ahead and improve my rating because normal improvement just keeps you at your level due to everybody else improving similarly.

Look, I respect the fact that your team won the National Championship, and I offer you a sincere congratulations from someone who also made it out of Texas, but came up short at Nationals. I know what a difficult task it is to do what your team did. Likewise, I was called a sandbagger etc. But please, for all that is good in the world, DROP THIS SUBJECT. GET OVER IT. You are the one who keeps bringing up this topic, and I am asking you nicely - please, please, please with a cherry on top - stop posting topics on sandbagging.


Moonshine,

I do thank you for your comments.

But let me answer a couple of your querstions . . .

I have relatives in Tucson and have watched 3.0 men's Nationals a few times over the last 10 years. I also watch the Texas Sectional semi-finals and finals every year for levels 3.0, 3.5 and 4.0 _ which are held in Dallas. It's a lot of fun just to watch!

The level of play at Nationals has been very consistent over the past 10+ years. If anything the level of play was a little lower in 2007 because the USTA lowered the "tolerances" and many more players were DQed. The Dallas men's 3.0 team that won in 2007 would not have been in the top four at Nationals 10 years ago.

I do agree with you that the local league has gotten bigger (more teams) and somewhat better as well.

Here is my point: Up until a few years ago, USTA Verifiers determined what level of performance is acceptable for each NTRP level. Anyone playing at an unacceptable level was DQed. Every year there were a bunch of sore losers who complained about sandbagging & cheating but VERY FEW players were DQed. Most were viewed by the USTA as playing at an acceptable level. Like it or not, that same standard continues today. If we had Verifiers in 2007 at Sectionals & Districts, the same players & same teams would still have played Nationals. The vast majority of players playing at Nationals are not cheating _ they are playing within the standards established by the USTA for each NTRP level. And it has been that way for many years.

So I ask you . . . do you think that thousands of men & women at all NTRP levels are cheating every year just to make Nationals? (That would mean tens of thousands of cheaters over 10+ years). OR do you think we just have a lot of sore losers that like to whine?
 

Applesauceman

Semi-Pro
Read my disparity of the talent pool segment which was posted on one of the eight other "Congratulations to Me" threads that you've started. It's not a matter of sandbagging, cheating, braggers, sore losers, or whiners.

P.S. - Everyone, even those who call you a sandbagger, is entitled to their own opinions, and opinions are like a-holes, everyone has one. Grow some thicker skin and enjoy the moment.
 

Applesauceman

Semi-Pro
Wait, here is my disparity of the talent pool segment, this will save you from having to justify and congratulate yourself on the other eight threads...

We find some disparity within our own state. This occurs mostly due to what you've already mentioned...more competitors and greater competition.

For example, in Northern Michigan there are approx. 3 Men's 3.0 teams, with approx. 15 players on each team, all competing for a chance to go to state. In Western Michigan there are approx. 8 Men's 3.0 teams, with approx. 15 players on each team, all competing for a chance to go to state. In Southeastern Michigan there are approx. 40 Men's 3.0 teams, with approx. 15 players on each team, all competing for a chance to go to state.

So the winning team in NM is the best of 3 teams (45 players), WM is the best of 8 teams (120 players), and SEM is the best of 40 teams (600 players). This is like having Class A, B, and C schools playing each other for the state championship, which doesn't happen because Class A schools would have a larger talent pool (more students living in their district) to choose from over Class B and C schools. The same holds true for Class B schools over Class C schools.

Also, if you are a 3.0 player, the USTA computer rating is only comparing you to other 3.0 players in your league, not to other 3.0 players in your state, or other 3.0 players in your section, unless you make it to the state level or beyond. This is not an excuse by any means, but simply shows how a 3.0 player in Michigan can be weaker than a 3.0 player in New York.

It's not that the USTA is doing anything wrong either, it's just the disparity in players due to regions. There are, of course, exceptions to the rule, and it's not impossible for teams from smaller talent pools to defeat teams from larger talent pools.

Please understand that these numbers are approx. and for reference and example only, and merely to show how there can be a disparity.
 

Backboard

New User
Read my disparity of the talent pool segment which was posted on one of the eight other "Congratulations to Me" threads that you've started. It's not a matter of sandbagging, cheating, braggers, sore losers, or whiners.

P.S. - Everyone, even those who call you a sandbagger, is entitled to their own opinions, and opinions are like a-holes, everyone has one. Grow some thicker skin and enjoy the moment.

Appleman,
It is not about congratulations it is about poor sportmanship. I'm not going to allow the whiners and poor sports to be the only bloggers.

I did enjoy your post about disparity of the talent pool.
 

Applesauceman

Semi-Pro
But perhaps you can understand why the whiners and poor sports could be upset, what is a 3.0 in Texas could be a 3.5 or 4.0 in another region. From their point of view (perception is reality to many) you are sandbaggers, cheater, etc. It's nothing that you're doing wrong, it's nothing that they're doing wrong, it's merely a difference in the number of players and each regions type of competition, and the USTA is doing their best to level the playing field.

Perhaps I've missed something on TW (please forgive if I have), but so far you're the only one I've seen starting threads congratulating yourself for winning and starting threads attacking those who are being whiners and poor sports by calling you a sandbagger.

In my "opinion", poor sports are poor losers as well as poor winners.
 
I am not here to defend anybody but in fairness, sandbagging is often times the favorite topic on this board. Admittedly, I can't refuse a good sandbagging rant.

For what it is worth, on many points I agree with both Applesauce and Backboard. I agree that there is great disparity by city/state/region. I am well travelled and have played people in a multitude of cities. I will hear someone say "I am a 4.5 and I play him and in my estimation he is a pretty average 3.5" I have been to other areas and the person says "I am a 4.0" but the peson looks pretty 5.0 to me. As Applesauce said, perception is reality. I agree with Backboard that many people think there is rampant sandbagging when it is simply a case of just because a person beats you does not mean they are out of level (not necessarily meaning they are not out of level but it is definitely the exception and not the rule). Some players think that they must win every match and nobody could actually be better than them.

I have never been to Nationals (only Sectionals); I have never had an undefeated season; I have never won more than 70% of my matches in a given year but I have been called a sandbagger. I took it as a compliment.
 

Applesauceman

Semi-Pro
Please understand that I'm not totally or necessarily disagreeing with Backboard, I am merely pointing out that it may appear to some players that Backboard is a sandbagger, while others may think not.

What I am disagreeing with Backboard about is the fact that he's calling other players poor sports and classless because they think he is sandbagging and not complimentary. And no amount of convincing on Backboard's part will change their opinions.

In addition, the mere fact that Backboard has posted multiple threads on TW congratulating himself (and his team), requesting congratulations, and attacking any players who he considers sore losers/poor sports for calling him a sandbagger, I feel is also poor sportsmanship. Once again, this is my perception based on what I've read here.

I very much agree with lostinamerica, whose final thought was "I have never been to Nationals (only Sectionals); I have never had an undefeated season; I have never won more than 70% of my matches in a given year but I have been called a sandbagger. I took it as a compliment."

It's okay to be happy and proud that you won, it's a great accomplishment, enjoy the moment, though be sensitive to other player's feelings. We should all learn to accept other players compliments as well as their complaints and criticisms.
 
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fe6250

Semi-Pro
I don't know if Backboard is a sandbagger. I don't care if Backboard is a sandbagger. I don't care who Backboard wants me to congratulate. As far as I can see - being a 3.0 champion he's probably still worse than 95% of the male players on this board.

All I know for sure is that he's a miserable warped little man with an axe to grind against all those who would question his rightous claim to the USTA 3.0 men's crown. He likes to call people names by making clever changes to their screen names. He likes to congratulate all who ever held a racquet. I'm sure he was picked on as a child - maybe he needs this. The championship was months ago - let it go already.

Some people sandbag, some people don't - no one can know for sure. Who cares?
 

Applesauceman

Semi-Pro
fe6250, you're a little harsher than I am, though I guess if I was called names via clever changes to my screen name I might be a little more harsh.
 

fe6250

Semi-Pro
fe6250, you're a little harsher than I am, though I guess if I was called names via clever changes to my screen name I might be a little more harsh.

I don't care about the names - I just wish these threads would die already. Let these things move off of page 1 and into rants and raves. (whoops I guess I'm guilty).
 
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