Tension Difference between crank machine and Electronic Constant Pull

ryushen21

Legend
I'm placing an order for a Wise 2086 to upgrade my Alpha Axis Pro machine. On the Alpha, I've been stringing in the upper 40s but I'm wondering if I need to adjust that tension with the switch over to a constant pull tensioner.
 

esgee48

G.O.A.T.
Depending on how you crank (or if you do multiple cranks) and/or string type, the general adjustment is 2-5# less when moving over to eCP. Stretchy strings require more adjustment. Something like a 1st gen polyester, not so much. Treat the whole thing as if they are experiments. You won't be dialed in the 1st time. 8-B
 

am1899

Hall of Fame
FWIW, when I still had my LO machine at home, I had a few customers who were mostly having their racquets strung elsewhere on eCP machines. Through some experimentation, I eventually adopted the following adjustments (for when I would string their racquets on my LO machine):

poly: +10% ref tension
anything stretchy - gut, multi, etc: +15% ref tension

Obviously a lot of variables here so YMMV.
 
I'd go at least 10%. But, you can check yourself 1st by stringing one of your own rackets. Put the Wise on LO mode and set your reference tension to 48. It will pull, stop (in LO mode), and you can still see the tension that the string is pulling on the tension head. I'm betting it shows up at somewhere in the 35# range.
 

McLovin

Legend
On your first restring with the Wise, keep tension the same just so you can see for yourself.
When I got my Wise 9 years ago (EDIT: turns out, it is exactly 9 years since this post), I did just as you suggest, and it was approx 4lbs tighter than my drop weight.

And that is why when people ask for tension recommendations, I try to stay away from actual #s. Increase/decrease from usual tension, but telling someone "full ALU at 56lbs is way too tight?" could be incorrect if it's really 52lbs.
 

USMC-615

Rookie
Interesting thread...thanks for the comments folks. I've got a Wise 2086 Series 14 coming (ordered back on Aug 20, the 'in-stock' date has moved up, now around Sep 10) and info like this definitely helps, as I'm new to stringing. Have strung six racquets so far with a new Gamma ST II.
 

USMC-615

Rookie
I'd go at least 10%. But, you can check yourself 1st by stringing one of your own rackets. Put the Wise on LO mode and set your reference tension to 48. It will pull, stop (in LO mode), and you can still see the tension that the string is pulling on the tension head. I'm betting it shows up at somewhere in the 35# range.
Wow...I had no idea there would be that much of a diff btwn a crank/LO and an ECP in LO mode instead of constant pull mode. That's 25% of target tension, give or take a %.
 

jim e

Legend
The USRSA has a conversion calculator, going to and from each system. Lower less stretch strings along with smaller frames typically figure near 5 percent, and more stretching strings with larger frame size typically figure near 10 percent.
 

ryushen21

Legend
Thanks for the feedback everyone. My WISE should be coming in next week and now I've got a good idea where to start for that first string job.
 

dachness

New User
As people have mentioned it is dependent on the string. Repeating what was said above you can do a pull with the Wise setup as Lock Out and see what the tension drops to after 3-5 seconds(or whatever time it usually takes you to clamp off). Then use that differential to actually string with that particular string as a starting point.
 

Irvin

Talk Tennis Guru
As people have mentioned it is dependent on the string. Repeating what was said above you can do a pull with the Wise setup as Lock Out and see what the tension drops to after 3-5 seconds(or whatever time it usually takes you to clamp off). Then use that differential to actually string with that particular string as a starting point.
The Wise is not a true lockout. The tension on a Wise will drop faster than the tension on a lockout because there is no tension spring.
 

onehandbh

Legend
Anyone ever compare a wise vs a Stringway?
When I switched from a Gamma XST I noticed that using the same tension settings, the racquet strung on the stringway felt significantly tighter.

I occasionally string for some friends and they noticed my string job was tighter as well vs the place they take it to that used a lockout machine.
 

MoxMonkey

Rookie
As I watch string stretch a little more if I wait a few seconds with a dropweight, I have often wondered how lockout machines deal with the tension loss from this 'final stretch'.

Apparently they don't??

If so, why would you want to ever use a lockout machine?

Edit:

This sounds rude. I don't mean that way. But is this just something that you have to navigate through when using a lockout machine?
 

USMC-615

Rookie
As I watch string stretch a little more if I wait a few seconds with a dropweight, I have often wondered how lockout machines deal with the tension loss from this 'final stretch'.

Apparently they don't??

If so, why would you want to ever use a lockout machine?

Edit:

This sounds rude. I don't mean that way. But is this just something that you have to navigate through when using a lockout machine?
To minimize stretch too much, I would think either be super fast to clamp off after the handle locks out, or possibly pull tension twice may help…release first tension pull, then pull again and clamp as quick as you can. Seems those two things would be the only intervention a person could do.
 

esgee48

G.O.A.T.
Tension is just a number whether you use a LO or CP. In both cases, strings will continue to relax after clamping and 12 hours after finishing the racquet. It is also dependent on the stringer's movements. If the client likes 58# on a NEOS 1000 vs 53# using a NEOS 1000/WISE, then who cares since they are satisfied in both cases. There is nothing inherently wrong with a LO. What you want is to be consistent over a clients' multiple frames. An example is to do 3 identical frames using same string and ref tension at the same time. They should come off the machine at the same length and (for me) same tension as ref tension. After 12 hours, they should also be the same tension.
 

USMC-615

Rookie
Tension is just a number whether you use a LO or CP. In both cases, strings will continue to relax after clamping and 12 hours after finishing the racquet. It is also dependent on the stringer's movements. If the client likes 58# on a NEOS 1000 vs 53# using a NEOS 1000/WISE, then who cares since they are satisfied in both cases. There is nothing inherently wrong with a LO. What you want is to be consistent over a clients' multiple frames. An example is to do 3 identical frames using same string and ref tension at the same time. They should come off the machine at the same length and (for me) same tension as ref tension. After 12 hours, they should also be the same tension.
And a little part I omitted in my previous post…could a person even be fast enough to make any difference at all, with his speed in clamping after lockout? I venture to say prob not when it comes down to it.
 

Rabbit

G.O.A.T.
As I watch string stretch a little more if I wait a few seconds with a dropweight, I have often wondered how lockout machines deal with the tension loss from this 'final stretch'.

Apparently they don't??

If so, why would you want to ever use a lockout machine?

Edit:

This sounds rude. I don't mean that way. But is this just something that you have to navigate through when using a lockout machine?
As @esgee48 has already well explained tension being just a number, I will respond with my answer to the bolded part. Lockouts have real advantages, speed, repeatability, reliability, longevity, and freedom from electricity. The lockouts I have used have one thing in common, they are all built to last. When I say last, I mean 50+ years or more of home use with no maintenance. As to the difference, once again, it's all what you get used to. I strung for myself and others on a NEOS for 20 years. Once folks found their number, they were pleased with the results. Now I string on a Sensor, and folks have their number on it. They're happy.

To minimize stretch too much, I would think either be super fast to clamp off after the handle locks out, or possibly pull tension twice may help…release first tension pull, then pull again and clamp as quick as you can. Seems those two things would be the only intervention a person could do.
It really doesn't matter. The one thing that does matter is that the stringer basically be consistent in the use of the machine. If the players are happy with the results, then it doesn't matter what machine is used.

It is really very easy to overthink a relatively simple process and let that dominate instead of playing.
 
Once a lockout “locks”, how long you take to clamp doesn’t matter. I’ve had to bump up the reference tension compared to the shop I used to use to get the same tension on my poly strings. That’s about it.

Makes you question what tension people are referencing when they give advice. For poly, at least, would be good for people to indicate LO or not.
 

MoxMonkey

Rookie
Once a lockout “locks”, how long you take to clamp doesn’t matter. I’ve had to bump up the reference tension compared to the shop I used to use to get the same tension on my poly strings. That’s about it.

Makes you question what tension people are referencing when they give advice. For poly, at least, would be good for people to indicate LO or not.

Thats was my line of thinking, as in the machine stops pulling when it's still got quite a bit to go(relatively) before at least somewhat stabilizing, and when it stops relative to said stabilization varies alot based on the string being tensioned.

So with a constant pull (or dropweight for that matter) 50lbs is 50lbs, there's no '50lbs on this machine', with these string/machine model variables having to be estimated.

To be fair I am new to this, and what looks like a glaring flaw(outdated?) in design could be very much affected by my admittedly somewhat sophomoric opinion on this. There's definitely a lot I don't know, but it's hard to overlook this.
 

Irvin

Talk Tennis Guru
Once a lockout “locks”, how long you take to clamp doesn’t matter. I’ve had to bump up the reference tension compared to the shop I used to use to get the same tension on my poly strings. That’s about it.

Makes you question what tension people are referencing when they give advice. For poly, at least, would be good for people to indicate LO or not.
Good points, but if you double pull with a lock out it does matter. Double pulling with a LO will allow the string to stretch out more and although you will not have a higher than reference tension you will have so me thing closer to reference tension.
 
Thats was my line of thinking, as in the machine stops pulling when it's still got quite a bit to go(relatively) before at least somewhat stabilizing, and when it stops relative to said stabilization varies alot based on the string being tensioned.

So with a constant pull (or dropweight for that matter) 50lbs is 50lbs, there's no '50lbs on this machine', with these string/machine model variables having to be estimated.

To be fair I am new to this, and what looks like a glaring flaw(outdated?) in design could be very much affected by my admittedly somewhat sophomoric opinion on this. There's definitely a lot I don't know, but it's hard to overlook this.
Grab the racquet tune app. Some will debate the accuracy, but for relative comparison, you will easily see a poly lose 5-10 lbs of tension overnight, even coming off a constant pull, because it’s poly. Have you ever seen anyone on a constant pull wait until the tension absolutely stopped changing? Me neither. All it does is keep it constant until you’ve clamped it and then it’s the same as a LO. The faster you string on a CP, the more it’s like a LO.
 
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MoxMonkey

Rookie
Grab the racquet tune app. Some will debate the accuracy, but for relative comparison, you will easily see a poly lose 5-10 lbs of tension overnight, even coming off a constant pull, because it’s poly. Have you ever seen anyone on a constant pull wait until the tension absolutely stopped changing? Me neither. All it does is keep it constant until you’ve clamped it and then it’s the same as a LO. The faster you string on a CP, the more it’s exactly like a LO.
I wait a few seconds with a drop weight and readjust. I have always thought racing to clamp it would lead to inconsistency, and since there's a alot of tension dropoff over a day, I always felt by letting that secondary stretch bleed off, bump the weight a bit to level it on the mark and then clamp.

It seems as though this will help maintain a tension closer to true, at least for a while. Clamping before letting it come to rest is obviously going to cause a more rapid loss of tension.
 

MoxMonkey

Rookie
Although maybe a better way to describe it is it's just a higher tension, that I think would drop somewhat slower?
 

Rabbit

G.O.A.T.
You guys are really making too much out of nothing. A lockout machine is perfectly fine, there is no glaring flaw. I've posted this elsewhere, the least important part of a stringing machine is the tensioning mechanism. The most important part is the clamps followed by the mounting system. You can have the most accurate tensioner in the world, heck the universe, and it won't be worth a squat if you're using crappy clamps. So all this ado about lockouts is really just hot air. Maybe I missed it, but I didn't see Medvedev thanking the stringing room for anything after he won the Open yesterday. When pros use the stringing room provided at a tournament, they spend the first couple of hitting sessions adjusting their tension number to whatever feels right coming out of the stringing room. The uptake from this is it's just a number. Find your number on the machine you use regularly and you're good to go.
 
Grab the racquet tune app. Some will debate the accuracy, but for relative comparison, you will easily see a poly lose 5-10 lbs of tension overnight, even coming off a constant pull, because it’s poly. Have you ever seen anyone on a constant pull wait until the tension absolutely stopped changing? Me neither. All it does is keep it constant until you’ve clamped it and then it’s the same as a LO. The faster you string on a CP, the more it’s like a LO.
Conversely, if after the lockout machine locks, you pull again (and again etc), the more it will be like a CP machine.
 
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