Tension Difference Between Stringing Machines

[skeetm0n]

Machines
- Gamma X-6FC X-6 Stringing Machine (Drop Weight)
- Gamma Progression II ELS Stringing Machine (ELS)

Background
Used my drop weight for 2 years stringing at 56lbs. Upgraded to the ELS and strung my first racket @ 56 lbs and it felt WAY too tight. Strung the next at 51... still too tight. Strung the 3rd one at 46 lbs and it felt about right. Rackets, string, and stringing method (one-piece ATW) has all remained the same.

It seems impossible that I was losing that much tension when using my drop weight (with fly clamps), but I don't have any other explanation. Thoughts?

EDIT: Corrected my drop-weight machine model.

 

[esgee48]

10# is a lot of difference. Was the 602FC ever checked to ensure that 56# set was 56# pulled? Same with the ELS? Did you ever clean the clamps on the 602FC? Do you recall how long you waited to clamp on both machines?

BTW, 602FC means fixed clamps. Did you mean 602?

I could personally see a 3-5# difference based on technique and where you clamped the strings. You want to clamp as close to the frame as you can. The other factoid about eCP is that they pull much more consistently pulling out plasticity whereas it takes DWs a little [relativity may say it takes at least 10 seconds more] longer to do the same thing.

An eCP will pull until it detects 57-58# [which is an overshoot] and then stop. It stays there until the load cell says the tension has dropped to 55# before it starts pulling again. A DW will pull at most 56# and if it overshoots horizontal, the pulling tension starts to decrease so you can never go over 56#.

 

[skeetm0n]

My bad, yes, I meant the X-6. I've updated the OP.

Was the 602FC ever checked to ensure that 56# set was 56# pulled? Same with ELS?

Are you referring to something like this calibrator device? No & no.

Did you ever clean the clamps on the 602FC?

Yes, with rubbing alcohol + paper towel maybe once per ~10 rackets.

Do you recall how long you waited to clamp on both machines?

The DW would always take a bit more time to get the weight level, whereas the ELS is pretty much immediate. So on average probably a difference of ~5-7 seconds.

 

[esgee48]

Based on your replies, we do not know if one or both of them are off. Eons ago, when I was using a simple DW, I checked its pull against a digital luggage scale which had been checked with known weights. I continue to check my current machines' pull just because I could and wanted to know if I needed to calibrate.

The difference I noted was not your 10#, but closer to 3# or in the case of multi, maybe 5#. I am speculating that perhaps your clamps were slipping or you were not recovering the drawback properly from using flying clamps. Just shooting blind here since we can not know what you were really doing when using the X6. Clamps really do make a difference.

I would ignore the old ref tension since you found a new ref tension to use with your ELS.

 

[Irvin]

On the X-6 machine do you use 1 clamp stringing the crosses? When you move the clamp on crosses do you re level the DW bar?

 

[Rabbit]

@skeetm0n - your story really doesn't surprise me. I think when I moved off my drop weight to the Neos 1000 w/crank tensioner, I had to back off 8 pounds of tension to get it to feel "right". When I moved to the Wise, there was another 2 - 3 pound drop. The difference is most likely not going to be in the calibration of your old (or new) machine. The suspect, IMO, is the flying clamps and technique on the drop weight. I, and most likely you too, didn't have the 'perfect' technique required for the drop weight/flying clamp combo. I really wouldn't worry about it now though. You'll find going forward that your finished product, the string bed, is more consistent and playable than before and as you gain experience, even more so.

In the end though tension is just a number. You've found your new number, so you're good to go.

 

[Irvin]

Machines
- Gamma X-6FC X-6 Stringing Machine (Drop Weight)
- Gamma Progression II ELS Stringing Machine (ELS)

Background
Used my drop weight for 2 years stringing at 56lbs. Upgraded to the ELS and strung my first racket @ 56 lbs and it felt WAY too tight. Strung the next at 51... still too tight. Strung the 3rd one at 46 lbs and it felt about right. Rackets, string, and stringing method (one-piece ATW) has all remained the same.

It seems impossible that I was losing that much tension when using my drop weight (with fly clamps), but I don't have any other explanation. Thoughts?

EDIT: Corrected my drop-weight machine model.

Read the commets from Brian O'Neil in the video below. There should be no reason you can not obtain full tension on a DW machine with flying clamps unless there is something wrong.

 

[Rabbit]

And as mentioned, that something would be technique... I have no qualms about admitting that. Nobody showed me how to use a drop weight and there were no references. But to my dying day, I'll always be of the opinion that flying clamps prone to greater margin of error and are cheap pieces of crap compared to fixed clamps.

You can chop wood with an axe just as well as with a chainsaw. It just takes way more effort and dare I say it....technique with an axe. But why do it the hard way?

Anyway, the OP has moved on and I think he will be very satisfied with his purchase.

 

[skeetm0n]

On the X-6 machine do you use 1 clamp stringing the crosses?

1 clamp. I actually tinkered with using 2 on maybe 2 rackets, but didn't notice a difference, so I went back to 1 clamp since only using 1 clamp left more room for my hands to weave.

When you move the clamp on crosses do you re level the DW bar?

I don't quite understand this part. I would level the DW bar on every cross. It went like this:

1. Add tension with drop weight to level
2. Remove prior cross clamp
3. Add said clamp to cross that is tensioned
4. Pick up DW

 

[skeetm0n]

@Rabbit Thanks for the reply. My only concern is that my racket recommends a tension between 50-59 lbs. Based on your suspicion with my DW + fly clamps (which I kind of suspect is right), I suppose that I may have been stringing at a "true" tension of 46 lbs all along, even though I thought it was 56... so ¯\_(ツ)_/¯.

 

[Irvin]

1 clamp. I actually tinkered with using 2 on maybe 2 rackets, but didn't notice a difference, so I went back to 1 clamp since only using 1 clamp left more room for my hands to weave.



I don't quite understand this part. I would level the DW bar on every cross. It went like this:

1. Add tension with drop weight to level
2. Remove prior cross clamp
3. Add said clamp to cross that is tensioned
4. Pick up DW

When you use 1clamp that 1 clamp must hold reference tension. Flying clamps will by their nature twist when tension is released. As the clamp twists tension falls in both strings being held. If you use 2 clamps your taking some of the tension off the clamp you move thereby lowering the amount of twist and tension loss. If you use 1 clamp here is what happens you tension a cross the move your clamp and as soon as you take the clamp off the DW arm will fall and you lose tension. If you don’t relieves the DW arm you will have less than reference tension on the cross you’re tensioning and you will never get back the tension due to excessive twisting of the clamp.

You’re stringing at 56 lbs of tension but you’re losing 20% of that tension with your method of stringing. But you’re a little faster and you have more room to weave.

 

[Rabbit]

@skeetm0n - the manufacturer's recommended tension is just that, a recommendation. There are plenty of players who go above and below those numbers. I strung for a number of years for a WTA event. The highest I strung was 86 pounds -- Luxilon ALU 1.38 and one of the lowest was 38 pounds. The girl using 86 pounds had 3 rackets strung a day, every day. She played every week. It was a Wilson Juice(?) 16 X 18 pattern. Now her rackets may have softened due to the tension, but they didn't break. Another girl played Aero Pro Drives strung at 65. She had hers strung so many times the paint had worn off where the string crossed the throat during stringing. Her frames were fine.

I think you're good. As long as you like the feel of your string bed, don't worry about the number.

The important thing is that you have a number for the machine you string on (or get strung on). Everything else is superferlous.

 

[newdent]

When you use 1clamp that 1 clamp must hold reference tension. Flying clamps will by their nature twist when tension is released. As the clamp twists tension falls in both strings being held. If you use 2 clamps your taking some of the tension off the clamp you move thereby lowering the amount of twist and tension loss. If you use 1 clamp here is what happens you tension a cross the move your clamp and as soon as you take the clamp off the DW arm will fall and you lose tension. If you don’t relieves the DW arm you will have less than reference tension on the cross you’re tensioning and you will never get back the tension due to excessive twisting of the clamp.

You’re stringing at 56 lbs of tension but you’re losing 20% of that tension with your method of stringing. But you’re a little faster and you have more room to weave.

Hey just to bring this topic back as I'm having similar issues to the OP, you think using two clamps on the crosses will stop the tension loss with flying clamps? Thanks

 

[jxs653]

I used Klippermate DW machine for over 15 years and then I've been using the Neos type lockout machine (glide bar clamps, two-point mounting) close to 10 years, and my experience is very opposite to OP: the DW yielded a lot tighter stringbed.

 

[newdent]

Oh to be clear, I'm not comparing two machines but my rackets are coming out about 5lb low on the tension apps. Not sure if they can be trusted or not. The tensions are consistent at least but not sure whether to go up 5lb to compensate or if the app can be trusted.

I'm fairly confident in most aspects technique wise, except I'm only using one flying clamp on the crosses so that could be an issue.

 

[Irvin]

Hey just to bring this topic back as I'm having similar issues to the OP, you think using two clamps on the crosses will stop the tension loss with flying clamps? Thanks

Better clamps cleaned and well maintained will do more IMO. If I use two ProStringer Claws on my X-2 drop weight the string bed is stiffer than if I string the same racket, with the same string, and tension On my Tourna 700 ES.

 

[newdent]

Better clamps cleaned and well maintained will do more IMO. If I use two ProStringer Claws on my X-2 drop weight the string bed is stiffer than if I string the same racket, with the same string, and tension On my Tourna 700 ES.

Thanks, they are brand new stringway clamps so I think they are probably fine, the bar doesn't even move when I release them so I trust the clamps.

I wanted to try the claws but they are more expensive here in that UK. Plus it looks like people struggle to place them on the crosses although they seem fine on the mains.

 

[Irvin]

Thanks, they are brand new stringway clamps so I think they are probably fine, the bar doesn't even move when I release them so I trust the clamps.

I wanted to try the claws but they are more expensive here in that UK. Plus it looks like people struggle to place them on the crosses although they seem fine on the mains.

Depends are what claws you are using and the pattern for how difficult it is to clamp strings. I have version 1.0, 2 Ms and 1 Ls and seldom have an issue clamping. I would like to try some of the version 2.0 claws But see no real need. I can assure the claws will be easier to use than the Stringway clamps with less string distortion. The more string distortion you have the more tension loss, but I doubt it causes enough to be concerned about.