Tension Difference Between Stringway ML90 and Klippermate Table Top?

lstewart

Semi-Pro
I just picked up a used Stringway ML90 drop weight stringer with the fixed clamp system. I've been using a Klippermate basic model for 25 years of more, with the double flying clamps. I've strung the same racket twice with the Stringway machine, and both times have resulted in a much tighter stringbed than I desired. I realize the Klippermate will have some tension loss with the floating clamps, but it appears to be more significant that I would have expected. I strung the first attempt on the Stringway at the same settings I have been stringing on the Klippermate (53 mains, 55 crosses). It came out crazy tight. I hit with it about 10 minutes, cut the strings out, and started over. I set the weight 8 lbs less, 45/47, and strung the frame again last night. It again feels much too tight. I'm using the ruler that comes with the Stringway to measure tension. I find it hard to believe the Klippermate process was that much off, although I only string frames for my son and myself. As anyone else made this change in machines and noticed such a severe change? At this point I'm just left with trial and error, to keep reducing tension on the Stringway and restringing, until I hit a weight that plays reasonable. I've hit with other frames strung by friends over the years, and their tensions have not felt that much different than mine. I'm sure there is a difference in efficiency with the fixed clamps, but it is hard to believe this much change. Not really trusting the Stringway tension I am getting from the ruler at this point.
 

MathieuR

Professional
- are you not mixing pounds and kilo's (not likely when you are in the fifties )
- do you use the "double" weight, and use the "single weight"- scale?
 

lstewart

Semi-Pro
I am reading pounds on the scale. My understanding is you use the double weight for up to 66 lbs, and then would need a 3rd small weight (which I don't have) to get to the upper weight limits. At first I thought I was to just use the larger weight, but there is no bolt in it to allow you to fix just that weight to the bar. That would seem to make sense in my readings and feel of the frame after stringing though. I probably am getting 12 lbs or so more tension than what I want, at least by the feel of the finished string job.
 

esgee48

Legend
Pull 55# using your KM and your Stringway. Use the same scale to see what the tension is i.e. digital luggage scale. I can believe a 2-4# difference with FC, but not what you are describing. If you trust your ears, pluck the string and hear if there is a radically different pitch. If you have Racquet Tune, check the reference tension using that and see what it tells you.
 

lstewart

Semi-Pro
Thanks esgee, good advice. I need to pick up a digital luggage scale and follow your recommendations. I hit with the frame strung on the Stringway settings at 45/47. It felt pretty tight compared to my normal tension. Hitting partner had just strung his frame through the club at 57. The pitch on mine sounded slightly lower than his at 57, so I was a little under that. Need to get the digital scale and run the test. I'm guessing from a practical standpoint, I'm about 8 lbs or so in real world difference once the frames are finished.
 

pvw_tf

Rookie
I just picked up a used Stringway ML90 drop weight stringer with the fixed clamp system. I've been using a Klippermate basic model for 25 years of more, with the double flying clamps.
The difference in tension can be a lot. Flying clamps is just harder to work with and it is harder to maintain consistency. The difference in pulling tension will mot likely the least important factor.

appears to be more significant that I would have expected.
I have seen difference from stringers up to 10+ kg.


At this point I'm just left with trial and error, to keep reducing tension on the Stringway and restringing, until I hit a weight that plays reasonable.
Well "trial and error" is the standard way. Different stringers and different stringing machines will result in different tensions. On tour events if possible the same stringer will do the rackets of one player the whole tournament. They will start at a reference tension and after that it is give me a that much more or less then the last job.


Peter
 

lstewart

Semi-Pro
Thanks Peter. Good thoughts. I've basically strung all my own rackets for myself and my son for years, but never really thought I was more than a couple of pounds off from what I would get from a fixed clamp machine. At this point it does not really matter what readings I might get on the Klippermate. I bought a digital luggage scale at lunch today, and plan to see if I can get a reading on the Stringway with the machine set at 55lbs, pulling the tension, and then clamping with the fixed clamp. My gut tells me the ruler weight scale is not really giving me an accurate reading, although I do agree I'm losing some tension with the floating clamps. My guess is I might be 8 to 10 lbs or so off from what I was expecting from a setting, maybe with half of it being the loss from the floating clamps, and maybe half being the tension being pulled on the Stringway. The last attempt I made with it set at 45/47 played a little tighter than the 53/55 I have been stringing on the Klippermate, so I think if I back off another pound or two I should be good for what I want in my frame.
 

Clintspin

Professional
I think one of two things is going on. You either read on the Klippermate from the top of the weight or you are reading from the wrong side of the Stringway. Either would change things a lot.
 

max

Legend
Just string it a few pounds lesser when using the Stringway. Anyway, I tend to think there's variances between all kinds of machines. A good stringer knows his machine well enough to know the kind of result he's looking for.
 

esgee48

Legend
I think one of two things is going on. You either read on the Klippermate from the top of the weight or you are reading from the wrong side of the Stringway. Either would change things a lot.
In both cases, KM and Stringway both have manuals clearly showing where the weight(s) should be relative to the mark. I think that the Stringway may be pulling too tight. You have to measure from the pivot point of the DW assembly for the Stringway. If you're off by 1-2 cm, your tension will be way off. Let's wait to see what OP determines with his scale.
 

Clintspin

Professional
Yes they do have manuals that show the right way but people do it wrong and sometimes for years before someone shows them. I have owned both machines in the past.
 

Clintspin

Professional
Dropping from 53 to 45lbs on the mains and still feeling it is too tight says a lot. I never had any trouble with the Stringway/Laserfibre pulling too tight and not a big difference between using a Klippermate with flying clamps and a Stringway with fixed.
 

lstewart

Semi-Pro
Reading the wrong side of the weight is an excellent question. I actually did this the first time I used the Klipper 20 plus years ago. Read from the top of the weight, strung a Prince, headed to a big tourney, and could not keep a ball in the court due to the low tension. Last week I did not have a manual on the Stringway, so I wondered if I should be reading the top of the weight on it, instead of the bottom. That is about 7 pounds, which would explain a lot. But downloaded the manual, and it appears to show the reading is to be measured from the bottom of the weight as well? Strung a different frame that I had not played before on the Stringway at the same time I strung my normal frame. Used 40 mains for poly, 42 crosses for synthetic. Hit with it some yesterday and it felt a little below my normal tension, but pretty good. So I am thinking for whatever reason I'm in the 8 to 9 pound range difference in functional tension on the finished string job. Will measure with the digital scale when I have a chance and that should give me a better idea of what is going on. Either way, from the settings I have right now on the Stringway, looks like 42 to 44 range would give me what I'm used to Klipper in the lower 50's.
 

lstewart

Semi-Pro
Picked up a digital luggage scale at Wal Mart and tried to get some measurements late last night. Struggled getting a good reading, as I had a difficult time figuring out how to anchor the sloped, rounded handle end of the scale. Finally did seem to get a reasonable reading on the Stringway pulling at what I think was 55, and the scale read within a couple pounds of that. Never could figure out how to anchor the scale on the Klipper to get a reading, and gave up due to the late hour. At this point I assume the Stringway is pulling fairly close to what I thought I had the weight setting, so I just need to back way off on the strung weight until I find my usual tension that feels right, whatever that may be in real life...... Just all a little disorienting, since now when I read about guys stringing at 40 or something, not sure if I am doing that as well or not! I've bought lots of new frames strung at my requested tensions, hit with other guys rackets, etc, and I've never noticed that those frames I did not string seemed way tighter than what I was stringing at.
 
Picked up a digital luggage scale at Wal Mart and tried to get some measurements late last night. Struggled getting a good reading, as I had a difficult time figuring out how to anchor the sloped, rounded handle end of the scale
Mount an unstrung frame to the machine and thread the scale inside the frame like in the picture below. Works also with klippermate.

This way you are also measuring the real tension inside the frame. Hopefully your scale is small enough to fit in.

 

lstewart

Semi-Pro
Thanks Occasional. I think it will fit in the frame, just need to have a frame needing to be strung. The handle on what I bought has a center anchor shaft and then is open and slopes back on both sides, so I was having a tough time tying it off so it did not twist and slip. I'll cut out a set of strings this weekend and give it a try with the open frame.
 

lstewart

Semi-Pro
Must say I'm at a loss at this point. Restrung a frame for the 3rd time on the Stringway, mains set at 43, crosses at 45. Came off the machine still feeling much too tight. Handed it to a buddy before a workout this morning and asked him what he thought it felt like it is strung. He said 70. Hit a few shots with it, but it was unplayable. I checked the drop weight reading on both the Stringway and the Klipper with a luggage scale. Both were pretty close to my weight setting on the bar. I cut out strings today and tried again with it set at 38lbs. It even came off feeling pretty tight. It must relate to the clamping process, but it is crazy how tight this stringer comes out from a functional string tension. Can't say I am much of a fan of it at this point.
 

esgee48

Legend
OK! You measured both machines and they pull about the same as shown on the luggage scale. You have eliminated the machines pulling mechanisms as a source of error. May I ask if you noticed the KM clamps NOT becoming parallel again when you tensioned the next string(s)? It only takes 1-2 mm of failed drawback for you to drop 10#. That's why fixed clamps are generally better since they don't exhibit this type of behavior if they are in good working condition. I think we can say that the difference is due to a better machine clamping system. It's now up to you to find the right tension with your Stringway.

There is a thread floating around on how long you need to pull before clamping with CP machines. I am in the long pull camp. Some are in the short pull camp. You don't need to answer, but if you clamp too soon, the string may have reached ref tension, but is still stretching if you clamp too soon. This is another source of lost tension.

FWIW, I use iOS Racquet Tune to check tensions as the frames comes off my machine. I am always within 1# of desired reference tension.
 
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lstewart

Semi-Pro
Yes, clearly it relates to tension loss on clamping. What is strange is that my tensions have felt reasonable compared to any racket I have bought or hit strung elsewhere, friends rackets, etc. The Stringway tension feels out of the normal range to others string jobs. Just surprising.
 

pvw_tf

Rookie
Just surprising.
Did not expect the pull tension to be that much different. It hardly is. The rest of the machine (clamps, table) and the stringer are way more important factors. Just think about a string which does not stretch a lot, kevlar of poly. If you loose 2 mm by the machine or clamping it is a major difference on the end result.

Peter
 

rockbox

Semi-Pro
Get the racquet tune tension app. It is accurate to two pounds from my alpha pioneer with an iphone
 
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lstewart

Semi-Pro
Thanks for all the advice and feedback. I seem to be approximately 12 lbs diffence on the two machines, so will adjust tensions accordingly. Sure have wasted alot of string figuring out the difference. Think I am good now.
 
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