Texas Men's 4.0 18+ Sectionals - Aug. 14-16

wings56

Hall of Fame
3.5
Corpus/NoHo/wild/FW/Houston
Amarillo/Waco/Austin/wild/wild
Dallas/NETX/San Antonio/SEtX/wild

4.5
Austin/NETX/FW/Houston/SEtX
NoHo/Corpus/Valley/SA/Dallas
 

coyote

Semi-Pro
Thanks for the offer but I’ve now seen it. I’m still curious who gets the Wilds. I assume Dallas and Houston as I’ve never seen them not get one at 4.0.
 

teckid

Rookie
No offense to the San Antonio or Abilene teams but I think Devin is right that generally the field was weaker this year, the Houston team is usually a lot of stronger but I think this was an off year for them since they won it last year ? The Austin team was not quite as deep as the team that usually goes but they are definitely a team on the rise and they could be back again next year, they had a guy playing singles who played D1 at Georgetown and guy at dubs who played for St. Ed's who were both legit 5.0 bump downs and they went 6-0 combined. If they are back next year that team will be tough again.
Regarding the 4.5 division: a year later this was spot on.
 

dcdoorknob

Hall of Fame
Interesting 2018 seasons for some of the 3.5 houston players.
I played at the Texas 3.5 sectionals this weekend. Had a great time!

Did get stomped in a doubles match by Houston. The better of the pair I played against went 5-0 on the weekend, never losing more than 2 games in a set for sectionals, and is now 22-0 for 2019 including 7 easy wins in 4.0 league matches playing "up". I clicked on his 2018 to see how he came to be a C rated 3.5... yeah, something seems off there.

Anyways, it's whatever. I genuinely did enjoy the weekend and my bruised ego from that match will heal I'm sure. :)
 
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wings56

Hall of Fame
Regarding the 4.5 division: a year later this was spot on.
The group with Dallas was weak. The doubles in the other group (Austin obviously included) was better and deeper than I ever remember. Singles lines were decent but no major studs.
 

wings56

Hall of Fame
I played at the Texas 3.5 sectionals this weekend. Had a great time!

Did get stomped in a doubles match by Houston. The better of the pair I played against went 5-0 on the weekend, never losing more than 2 games in a set for sectionals, and is now 22-0 for 2019 including 7 easy wins in 4.0 league matches playing "up". I clicked on his 2018 to see how he came to be a C rated 3.5... yeah, something seems off there.

Anyways, it's whatever. I genuinely did enjoy the weekend and my bruised ego from that match will heal I'm sure. :)
It's ok. That Houston team will win Nationals
 

JLyon

Hall of Fame
I played at the Texas 3.5 sectionals this weekend. Had a great time!

Did get stomped in a doubles match by Houston. The better of the pair I played against went 5-0 on the weekend, never losing more than 2 games in a set for sectionals, and is now 22-0 for 2019 including 7 easy wins in 4.0 league matches playing "up". I clicked on his 2018 to see how he came to be a C rated 3.5... yeah, something seems off there.

Anyways, it's whatever. I genuinely did enjoy the weekend and my bruised ego from that match will heal I'm sure. :)
what a joke, notice the 2 matches he won in 2018 were against his current teammates. Pathetic, guess he enjoys being a 3.5, such a great player.
 

J_R_B

Hall of Fame
I played at the Texas 3.5 sectionals this weekend. Had a great time!

Did get stomped in a doubles match by Houston. The better of the pair I played against went 5-0 on the weekend, never losing more than 2 games in a set for sectionals, and is now 22-0 for 2019 including 7 easy wins in 4.0 league matches playing "up". I clicked on his 2018 to see how he came to be a C rated 3.5... yeah, something seems off there.

Anyways, it's whatever. I genuinely did enjoy the weekend and my bruised ego from that match will heal I'm sure. :)
Checked captain of said team. Story checks out. Cheating confirmed.
 

J_R_B

Hall of Fame
what a joke, notice the 2 matches he won in 2018 were against his current teammates. Pathetic, guess he enjoys being a 3.5, such a great player.
And in both, he "lost" the first 6-1.

His 2017 record as a self-rate is even better (and by that, I mean even less believable). All teams have the same captain:

NOHO Ratings Manipulation last place team: 0-3 all straight sets.
NOHO 40+ Competitive team: 1-0 straight sets (also default for playoff eligibility)
Houston league regular season: 2-0 both straight sets.
Houston team area playoffs: 2-0 both straight sets
Houston team sectional playoffs: 3-0 all straight sets
NOHO 40+ sectional playoffs: 2-0 both straight sets
Houston team nationals: 4-1 all straight sets, only loss in semis

Total Ratings Manipulation team: 0-3
All others, including through nationals: 14-1 including straight set win in national finals.
 

HouTxDubs

New User
I played at the Texas 3.5 sectionals this weekend. Had a great time!

Did get stomped in a doubles match by Houston. The better of the pair I played against went 5-0 on the weekend, never losing more than 2 games in a set for sectionals, and is now 22-0 for 2019 including 7 easy wins in 4.0 league matches playing "up". I clicked on his 2018 to see how he came to be a C rated 3.5... yeah, something seems off there.

Anyways, it's whatever. I genuinely did enjoy the weekend and my bruised ego from that match will heal I'm sure. :)
Keep in mind that those easy wins in 4.0 were against former or future teammates that are seemingly losing to get back down to 3.5, and at the same time helping his 4.0 team advance
 
It's ridiculous how far a select few captains will take cheating. Hear me out. There's a 4.0 on the Dallas team playing in sectionals this weekend. He went 8-0 through Tri-level playoffs including the sectional finals. He's 16-1 in all his singles matches leading up to 4.0 sectionals, only 2 of which even went to a third set (he won one and lost one). He's at a minimum a borderline 4.5, but probably a little better than borderline.

Well that 3.5 discussed up above beat this 4.0 at 1 singles yesterday. That is truly ridiculous.
 
It's ridiculous how far a select few captains will take cheating. Hear me out. There's a 4.0 on the Dallas team playing in sectionals this weekend. He went 8-0 through Tri-level playoffs including the sectional finals. He's 16-1 in all his singles matches leading up to 4.0 sectionals, only 2 of which even went to a third set (he won one and lost one). He's at a minimum a borderline 4.5, but probably a little better than borderline.

Well that 3.5 discussed up above beat this 4.0 at 1 singles yesterday. That is truly ridiculous.
Most of what you said is true, although, ironically, the Dallas player won many of those matches listed as a 3.5, which obviously was also a questionable self rate. So, the 3.5 self rate from Houston faced a new 4.0, who is a great player. At one time those 2 might have been the best 3.5 players in the nation, legitimately.
Some of the Dallas player' former teammates (his sectional team are players going 4.5-4.0-4.5-4.0 by tanking and winning) just spent the entire season losing every single line, winless, to try and get bumped down to 3.5. Just so everyone doesn't think Dallas is insane, 4.5 and above is relatively sandbag free.
Obviously though, to "win" Texas, this is what it takes at 4.0 and 3.5, Dallas and Houston are both playing the same game.
 
Most of what you said is true, although, ironically, the Dallas player won many of those matches listed as a 3.5, which obviously was also a questionable self rate. So, the 3.5 self rate from Houston faced a new 4.0, who is a great player. At one time those 2 might have been the best 3.5 players in the nation, legitimately.
Some of the Dallas player' former teammates (his sectional team are players going 4.5-4.0-4.5-4.0 by tanking and winning) just spent the entire season losing every single line, winless, to try and get bumped down to 3.5. Just so everyone doesn't think Dallas is insane, 4.5 and above is relatively sandbag free.
Obviously though, to "win" Texas, this is what it takes at 4.0 and 3.5, Dallas and Houston are both playing the same game.
Kind of takes the sting out of it knowing he was a recent 3.5. But I bet they're both closer to 4.5 than 3.5 anywhere in the country.
 

tennis_tater

Semi-Pro
So this 3.5 guy referenced about was on teams that won both 3.5 and 4.0 Texas Sectionals, where he won for both teams this past weekend, and will be going to nationals for both?
 
So this 3.5 guy referenced about was on teams that won both 3.5 and 4.0 Texas Sectionals, where he won for both teams this past weekend, and will be going to nationals for both?
Yep. Same captain for both teams too, right?
Happens to be the same captain who won both 2015 and 2017 nationals for 18+ 3.5. I guess it takes a year to "rebuild".
 

tennis_tater

Semi-Pro
Who would take pride in winning a 3.5 national championship with 4.5 players? That's absurd. I see one of his 4.0 teams this year won sectionals and is going to nationals and yet, another 4.0 team he is on, is in last place and lost every mach. I'm assuming those matches count towards the rating and are being played simply to keep his and other players' ratings down? Ridiculous. He, along with the captain from Atlanta who creates a team to lose horribly the year after winning a natty, should be banned. Lifetime ban.
 

wings56

Hall of Fame
Who would take pride in winning a 3.5 national championship with 4.5 players? That's absurd. I see one of his 4.0 teams this year won sectionals and is going to nationals and yet, another 4.0 team he is on, is in last place and lost every mach. I'm assuming those matches count towards the rating and are being played simply to keep his and other players' ratings down? Ridiculous. He, along with the captain from Atlanta who creates a team to lose horribly the year after winning a natty, should be banned. Lifetime ban.
I guess I'd have to win it and report back as to how it feels.
 

JLyon

Hall of Fame
Who would take pride in winning a 3.5 national championship with 4.5 players? That's absurd. I see one of his 4.0 teams this year won sectionals and is going to nationals and yet, another 4.0 team he is on, is in last place and lost every mach. I'm assuming those matches count towards the rating and are being played simply to keep his and other players' ratings down? Ridiculous. He, along with the captain from Atlanta who creates a team to lose horribly the year after winning a natty, should be banned. Lifetime ban.
USTA is too politically correct to do any bans above 1 to 2 yrs, just remember the NorCal Team that got busted at Nationals having players play in place of teammates, max they got was 5 yrs and even then most were back playing USTA within 2 yrs. USTA just accepts the cheating so they can keep the $$$ train rolling in leagues.
 

CosmosMpower

Hall of Fame
It's ridiculous how far a select few captains will take cheating. Hear me out. There's a 4.0 on the Dallas team playing in sectionals this weekend. He went 8-0 through Tri-level playoffs including the sectional finals. He's 16-1 in all his singles matches leading up to 4.0 sectionals, only 2 of which even went to a third set (he won one and lost one). He's at a minimum a borderline 4.5, but probably a little better than borderline.

Well that 3.5 discussed up above beat this 4.0 at 1 singles yesterday. That is truly ridiculous.
The crazy thing is if we're talking about the same people the 3.5 is a UTR 5 that beat the 4.0 sandbagger who is a UTR 8. The UTR 8 guy nearly won the 4.0 cotton bowl major zone last Dec in both singles and doubles before he got bumped up.
 
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USTA is too politically correct to do any bans above 1 to 2 yrs, just remember the NorCal Team that got busted at Nationals having players play in place of teammates, max they got was 5 yrs and even then most were back playing USTA within 2 yrs. USTA just accepts the cheating so they can keep the $$$ train rolling in leagues.
Ok, if you could indulge me, can I hear more about this NorCal situation? Or is there an internet or thread link?

The crazy thing is if we're talking about the same people the 3.5 is a UTR 5 that beat the 4.0 sandbagger who is a UTR 8.
This is a good example of the difference between UTR and USTA. Looks like the dominance in the USTA at 4.0 created the UTR 8, but if that player were to go into a UTR tournament as an 8 it would be very humbling for him. On the other hand the 3.5 isn't getting much credit for winning at 3.5.

Makes sense if you are a numbers person though since each USTA level could be seen as 2.5 ish UTR levels so if you kill everyone at 4.0 you are going to go way up in UTR, most you could go up in USTA is 4.5. Demonstrates how low the ceiling is for a 3.5 USTA in terms of UTR.
 
These stories are amazing. Are these teams sponsored by used car dealerships or what?
Lol, since you are interested, I've known captains in Dallas to pay for USTA memberships and team fees for good players. I also knew of one instance of flat out paying someone a few hundred dollars. In addition, I know a teaching pro once declined to join a team because of a conflict in teaching lessons, so, the captain just said I will pay you whatever money you would make teaching lessons to play for us. It's funnier than you might think, or strange, whatever word comes to mind.
 

norcal

Hall of Fame
Ok, if you could indulge me, can I hear more about this NorCal situation? Or is there an internet or thread link?
iirc they actually used people using false identities, like actual fraud. I don't know how a captain could possibly explain that away - you don't know who is on your team?
 

schmke

Hall of Fame
I have heard of captains paying league fees and travel expenses and perhaps other perks for players from nearby areas that otherwise wouldn't be interested in joining the team, e.g. pay league fees, Uber fare to/from matches, per diem, etc.
 

CosmosMpower

Hall of Fame
Ok, if you could indulge me, can I hear more about this NorCal situation? Or is there an internet or thread link?


This is a good example of the difference between UTR and USTA. Looks like the dominance in the USTA at 4.0 created the UTR 8, but if that player were to go into a UTR tournament as an 8 it would be very humbling for him. On the other hand the 3.5 isn't getting much credit for winning at 3.5.

Makes sense if you are a numbers person though since each USTA level could be seen as 2.5 ish UTR levels so if you kill everyone at 4.0 you are going to go way up in UTR, most you could go up in USTA is 4.5. Demonstrates how low the ceiling is for a 3.5 USTA in terms of UTR.
I think that UTR 8 would do well in a UTR tournament. He's a very high level 4.0 if not 4.5 player. I have played him before. I am a UTR 6 that cleaned up in 3.5 and do decent in 4.0 and he beat me soundly last year when we were both in 3.5. I was a 6 and he was a 7 at the time I believe.
 
I am familiar with that UTR 8 and what teenager UTR 8 s are like, he will do better at the 4.5 men's level than UTR 8. The superchamps playing UTR8 want the topspin game he plays and will discover other inconsistencies and issues, in other words besides the teens being amazingly good they want their opponent to try and outblast them, they love it. I am a 4.5 and can only beat half the UTR 7s I play and sometimes I lose to UTR 6 (the kids don't play USTA or other UTR counting events so some really good ones show up at UTR 7 because their rating isn't set yet). I've encountered a couple UTR 8 sleepers that were headed to big division 1 schools. I am only talking Dallas, so it might be different in other areas.

Lol, I google UTR 8 and saw this video, no offense, but holy sheep ahaha these guys would be destroyed by UTR 6s and some 5s
Anyway, irrelevant, but wow, maybe USTA matches created their rating.
 

wings56

Hall of Fame
I have heard of captains paying league fees and travel expenses and perhaps other perks for players from nearby areas that otherwise wouldn't be interested in joining the team, e.g. pay league fees, Uber fare to/from matches, per diem, etc.
I've paid for entry fees before. We've let guys share hotel rooms for free. This is pretty common and we aren't a big contender.
 

J_R_B

Hall of Fame
I've paid for entry fees before. We've let guys share hotel rooms for free. This is pretty common and we aren't a big contender.
For nationals, we had a guy who was our #1 singles player who was also unemployed at the time and didn't have the funds to make the trip. I let him stay in my room free (my family didn't come so I had an extra bed), and a guy on the team whose job has him traveling overseas a lot who has like a kajillion flight miles gave him a flight voucher he wasn't going to use for his airfare (and I gave him a ride to the airport so he didn't have long term parking expenses), so all he had to pay for was his meals (and I used some of the money that the section gave us for a big team dinner the first night, too). That was partially tennis-related because he was a key member of the team, but it was also personally motivated - the guy was down on his luck and needed a trip like that and everyone wanted him there.
 
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