Texas Men's 4.0 18+ Sectionals - Aug. 14-16

wings56

Hall of Fame
For nationals, we had a guy who was our #1 singles player who was also unemployed at the time and didn't have the funds to make the trip. I let him stay in my room free (my family didn't come so I had an extra bed), and a guy on the team whose job has him traveling overseas a lot who has like a kajillion flight miles gave him a flight voucher he wasn't going to use for his airfare (and I gave him a ride to the airport so he didn't have long term parking expenses), so all he had to pay for was his meals (and I used some of the money that the section gave us for a big team dinner the first night, too). That was partially tennis-related because he was a key member of the team, but it was also personally motivated - the guy was down on his luck and needed a trip like that and everyone wanted him there.
Very cool.
 

Nostradamus

Bionic Poster
What kind of goodies are you guys getting this year in the playoffs ?? are they doing that Bag tag with district, sectional champion on it ? or are they still doing the Towel ? I know they will do the T-shirts,, that has been the case for last 20 years...
 

JLyon

Hall of Fame
apparently I need to work on my tanking game. Seeing numerous guys in FTW, Dallas, Houston who were 4.5 and even 5.0 within the past 5 yrs. I know there bodies have not broken down that much. As for the winning 4.0 Team, no surprise by seeing who the captain is, for crying out loud the #2 singles guy went 3-1 at 4.5 Sectionals.
Miss the days of roving verifiers who could do visual DQ's
 

teckid

Rookie
What kind of goodies are you guys getting this year in the playoffs ?? are they doing that Bag tag with district, sectional champion on it ? or are they still doing the Towel ? I know they will do the T-shirts,, that has been the case for last 20 years...

Shirt for making it to Sectionals, towel for winning Sectionals; there is a Sectionals color they want you to represent at Nationals (wristbands, team jerseys, etc), Texas' color is aqua. :cautious:
 

J_R_B

Hall of Fame
apparently I need to work on my tanking game. Seeing numerous guys in FTW, Dallas, Houston who were 4.5 and even 5.0 within the past 5 yrs. I know there bodies have not broken down that much. As for the winning 4.0 Team, no surprise by seeing who the captain is, for crying out loud the #2 singles guy went 3-1 at 4.5 Sectionals.
Miss the days of roving verifiers who could do visual DQ's
The FW S2 in the semis is a guy who came from Middle States. He was a good 4.0 player up here, but not dominant to where I would suspect he was managing his rating or anything.
Looking at that 4.0 final, it appears Houston was outsandbagged.
GOAT level cheater. A true master of his craft.
 

Nostradamus

Bionic Poster
Shirt for making it to Sectionals, towel for winning Sectionals; there is a Sectionals color they want you to represent at Nationals (wristbands, team jerseys, etc), Texas' color is aqua. :cautious:
you mean winners get more stuff than losers ? that doesnt' seem fair
 

wings56

Hall of Fame
apparently I need to work on my tanking game. Seeing numerous guys in FTW, Dallas, Houston who were 4.5 and even 5.0 within the past 5 yrs. I know there bodies have not broken down that much. As for the winning 4.0 Team, no surprise by seeing who the captain is, for crying out loud the #2 singles guy went 3-1 at 4.5 Sectionals.
Miss the days of roving verifiers who could do visual DQ's
I think the visual DQ is more flawed than the current system
 
The FW S2 in the semis is a guy who came from Middle States. He was a good 4.0 player up here, but not dominant to where I would suspect he was managing his rating or anything.
Emphasis on was. This clearly no longer applies to his level based on his current results. But if he just genuinely improved that much before his rating can catch up then good for him. That level of improvement is what we're all striving for.

Edit: Never Mind. I thought you were talking about the NOHO #2 since the poster you responded to mentioned the winning team.
 
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Nostradamus

Bionic Poster
Shirt for making it to Sectionals, towel for winning Sectionals; there is a Sectionals color they want you to represent at Nationals (wristbands, team jerseys, etc), Texas' color is aqua. :cautious:
you guys don't get bag tags ? it is made of metal. looks good on the bag
 
I think that UTR 8 would do well in a UTR tournament. He's a very high level 4.0 if not 4.5 player. I have played him before. I am a UTR 6 that cleaned up in 3.5 and do decent in 4.0 and he beat me soundly last year when we were both in 3.5. I was a 6 and he was a 7 at the time I believe.
After this weekend, we will know, low and behold the 8.0 is in a UTR. His intensity might destroy the teens into submission or raise their game to equal intensity, will be interesting to see the results. Also, the questionable line calls could cause some conflict, it happens a bit against the youngsters.
 

J_R_B

Hall of Fame
Emphasis on was. This clearly no longer applies to his level based on his current results. But if he just genuinely improved that much before his rating can catch up then good for him. That level of improvement is what we're all striving for.

Edit: Never Mind. I thought you were talking about the NOHO #2 since the poster you responded to mentioned the winning team.
Yeah, I won't defend anyone in the starting lineup for a JF team. He did once have a guy who came from Middle States maybe 8 or 9 years ago, too, but in MS, that guy was a dominant 4.5. I'm sure you all know the drill by now: (1) Signs up for a 4.5 fall doubles league (2) Gets throttled in every match (3) Gets a 4.0C rating for the next year (4) Dominates both 4.0 and 4.5 level men's leagues (5) Plays in the 4.0 national championships. SOP for JF.
 
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teckid

Rookie
you guys don't get bag tags ? it is made of metal. looks good on the bag
Didn't see anything like that. Only thing I left out was the vinyl banner to hang at our home courts :-D. There is supposed to be some player amenities in Phoenix, not sure what that will include.
 

Nostradamus

Bionic Poster
Didn't see anything like that. Only thing I left out was the vinyl banner to hang at our home courts :-D. There is supposed to be some player amenities in Phoenix, not sure what that will include.
in the sectionals, you are supposed to get one of these as well. if not, USTA is ripping you off, and you should sue

 

tennis_tater

Semi-Pro
Yeah, I won't defend anyone in the starting lineup for a JF team. He did once have a guy who came from Middle States maybe 8 or 9 years ago, too, but in MS, that guy was a dominant 4.5. I'm sure you all know the drill by now: (1) Signs up for a 4.5 fall doubles league (2) Gets throttled in every match (3) Gets a 4.0C rating for the next year (4) Dominates both 4.0 and 4.5 level men's leagues (5) Plays in the 4.0 national championships. SOP for JF.
So this guy has won national championships at 3.5 and 4.0?
 
That dude is a UTR 8 now? Wow.
Kind of showing the difference in USTA and UTR, the UTR 8 created from USTA domination got a another adult probably 40 year old plus UTR 8 to play in the first round of the UTR event this weekend, so the experiment of running into a random dominating junior at UTR 8 didn't happen, but he did lose that match and then beat a teenager UTR 7 in 3 sets in the second match, he withdrew from his third match.

Not a great sample size, but a small bit of evidence that what I said about USTA results creating inflated UTR happens.
 
Kind of showing the difference in USTA and UTR, the UTR 8 created from USTA domination got a another adult probably 40 year old plus UTR 8 to play in the first round of the UTR event this weekend, so the experiment of running into a random dominating junior at UTR 8 didn't happen, but he did lose that match and then beat a teenager UTR 7 in 3 sets in the second match, he withdrew from his third match.

Not a great sample size, but a small bit of evidence that what I said about USTA results creating inflated UTR happens.
There's actually a recent thread on this because a few of us were arguing the opposite (usta UTRs are deflated). Someone posted the results of a UTR event with a bunch of usta people participating. You should check it out.

A similar tournament took place near me as well so I'll be posting those results in the same thread once I have time to check the UTRs.
 

wings56

Hall of Fame
There's actually a recent thread on this because a few of us were arguing the opposite (usta UTRs are deflated). Someone posted the results of a UTR event with a bunch of usta people participating. You should check it out.

A similar tournament took place near me as well so I'll be posting those results in the same thread once I have time to check the UTRs.
I feel like it's accurate for tournament players, but definitely deflated for league exclusive players.
 
Ok, but this is one real world example of someone dominating 4.0 singles USTA league matches and that translates into an 8 UTR. The teenagers in Texas that are 8 UTR, in my opinion, are much more advanced than great 4.0 adult players.
 

Nostradamus

Bionic Poster
Ok, but this is one real world example of someone dominating 4.0 singles USTA league matches and that translates into an 8 UTR. The teenagers in Texas that are 8 UTR, in my opinion, are much more advanced than great 4.0 adult players.
Why is that ? just because they have young legs ?? 30 something guy that is in great shape and high level 4.0 can hang with teenager as far as speed goes. As you get into your 30's, you lose maybe 1/4 to 1/2 step at most. It is really the endurance level that starts to show. but if guy in the 30's or late 30's can stay in great shape if he puts his mind to it
 
You are right about being in shape, but there are 4-5 tennis academies here in town and a majority are playing tennis 4-5 hours a day, not too many adults are doing that. I think that is part of the reason why the academy kids start showing up at level 8 and of course go up from there. It's a different game than a 4.0 man or lower level 4.5 man in this area.
 
You are right about being in shape, but there are 4-5 tennis academies here in town and a majority are playing tennis 4-5 hours a day, not too many adults are doing that. I think that is part of the reason why the academy kids start showing up at level 8 and of course go up from there.
Do they (kids) all play the same and lack strategy depth?
 

HouTxDubs

New User
I don't know if he's won 4.0. He got to the finals in 14 with Hunter Emmott but lost to an even cheatier team from SoCal.
He won 3.5 twice in '15 and '17. Haven't seen him win any 4.0 ones yet though.
4.0 Teams:
2016 lost in Nationals Semifinals
2015 lost in Sectionals Semifinals
2014 2nd @ Nationals
2013 Nationals, didn't advance out of group
2011 2nd @ Nationals
2010 2nd in Sectionals

I'll stop there...

The reason they often have a year in between is to 1) follow the rule about having no more than 3 players from last year's Nationals qualifying team on the same team the next year at the same level and 2) to allow those who were bumped up to lose enough matches to be back down at the lower level
 
Holy jeebus, someone needs to get elected to the usta or volunteer or something and somehow stop that, but yeah I don't have any great ideas. But, that's so obnoxious it's funny and almost sad. I guess the problem is money is money, hard to say no to your customers.
 
Do they (kids) all play the same and lack strategy depth?
I think I know what you mean. They hardly ever volley, they almost all have 2 handed backhands. Some of the youngish ones will overhit until they unforce error the match away without changing, just trying to bang everything. But, with that much coaching most are great at placing neutral balls without over hitting and they love banging away from the baseline. But, yes, sometimes a bit of serve and volley or slicing can throw them off.
 
Ive played one of them, they are like very fit and fast robots, their weaknesses are under the surface and with effort can be exposed. Just don't topspin baseline rally with them.
 

BMRSNR27

Rookie
Still not recorded. Is there a protest? Looking at the team, there should be. Same core of guys win nationals in 2015 and 2017 and now go 3-0, 30-0, 184-45 at sectionals with a #1 singles player who didn't win a match at 4.0 last year but is now undefeated this year at 3.5 and 4.0? Shady stuff in Houston.
 

ATX Tennis

New User
I love that a guy they put in the lineup of the 4.0 final is a 3.5. I guess USTA Texas isn’t embarrassed by the shenanigans (tanking) pulled by the same Dallas and Houston captains year after year. I hear that the Dallas tankers now play in a Ft Worth fall league to manage their ratings now that Dallas has made fall not count towards ratings. Ingenious!
 

BMRSNR27

Rookie
I love that a guy they put in the lineup of the 4.0 final is a 3.5. I guess USTA Texas isn’t embarrassed by the shenanigans (tanking) pulled by the same Dallas and Houston captains year after year. I hear that the Dallas tankers now play in a Ft Worth fall league to manage their ratings now that Dallas has made fall not count towards ratings. Ingenious!
He's undefeated at 4.0 and 3.5 this year. Last year, didn't win the most games in a match at 4.0, the matches he won being 1-6, 7-6, 1-0 type matches. Not hard to see through all of it.
 
His dynamic rating on TR is 3.90 if that tells you anything. It's been steadily rising and I'm sure it'll keep going up throughout his THREE trips to nationals.
 

tennis_tater

Semi-Pro
so this 3.5 guy is the top singles player in a 3.5 team going to nationals, as well as a 4.0 over 18 and over 40 team? Does the USTA no longer do administrative DQs?
 
so this 3.5 guy is the top singles player in a 3.5 team going to nationals, as well as a 4.0 over 18 and over 40 team? Does the USTA no longer do administrative DQs?
It's just one 4.0 team (18+) and two 3.5 teams (18+ and 40+ but a lot of the same main players) that qualified for nationals. All three teams have the same notorious captain too.
 
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ATX Tennis

New User
Check out the just entered results from the 3.5 finals. The undefeated San Antonio singles guys who were clearly not 3.5s got destroyed 6-0 6-1 and 6-1 6-1. Why does a 4.5 who has already won 3.5 national championships still play this division? Would a limit on how many national championships you can win in the same 18+ and 40+ division curtail some of these shenanigans? I just don’t get it.
 
Check out the just entered results from the 3.5 finals. The undefeated San Antonio singles guys who were clearly not 3.5s got destroyed 6-0 6-1 and 6-1 6-1. Why does a 4.5 who has already won 3.5 national championships still play this division? Would a limit on how many national championships you can win in the same 18+ and 40+ division curtail some of these shenanigans? I just don’t get it.
I've never been to nationals and would gladly go if I got there without gaming the system. So, you might want to claim "sour grapes" or "jealousy". However, I've had success in high school and college tennis and usta just isn't important enough to me to tank or super team it. Now on to the meat...
Generalizations about the Texas players who do this:
1. USTA is supreme competition, the highest they have reached, not high school or college, they still have something to prove
2. Not a super active dating life, or they are wifed up or dating a girl that comes to watch them play tennis all over the place (not usually the creme of the crop if you get my gist)
3. Tennis is their super hobby, they are obsessed like someone who loves cars or pokemon or star wars, they go extreme
4. They aren't really in great physical condition
5. They compete within a small group of 50 or so players that are doing this all over the state, but not many outside that group care
and more specifically its 6 or 7 captains trying to beat each other in tactics and recruiting
6. They talk about usta and nationals las often as crossfiters used to talk about crossfit
7. They love championship Facebook photo posts.

Someone should make a documentary, but tennis movies usually bomb
 
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