The 2009 AO SF vs the 2005 AO SF

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Deleted member 805385

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How would you rate the Nadal vs Verdasco and Federer vs Safin matches at the Australian Open when it comes to entertainment and quality?

I say that the 2009 AO SF was more entertaining while the 2005 AO SF had a bit more quality.
 
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Deleted member 805385

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Since I do almost nothing at work, I watched those matches and Nadal vs Verdasco entertained me much more. Especially those winners from Verdasco.
 

The Blond Blur

G.O.A.T.
Sets 1-4 of the 09 SF were of a higher quality.

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But the 5th set of the 05 SF was clearly better. So overall 09 > 05 imo.
 
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abmk

Bionic Poster
2005 AO SF had more variety and quality, 2009 AO SF provided for a clearer contrast of offense vs defense.
Both absolute top notch matches.
 
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Deleted member 805385

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Would you say that the 2005 AO had the higher winner level?
 

ibbi

G.O.A.T.
For quality, particularly if we're talking variety, 2005 is probably superior, though my recollection is there is a dip in the second and third sets. For entertainment, I go for 2009, because the only really lesser set is the third one, but they both dip at basically the same time, so it's still incredibly competitive.
 

NatF

Bionic Poster
There is a case to be made for this, yes.

Nonetheless, the difference in quality is not that big. I'd say 2005 is the best match I've ever seen personally. But 2009 is still a classic and one of the best matches this century.
For sure. Both iconic and ridiculous matches. I was being provocative there, I do think it's true though. But that doesn't take away from the 2009 SF.
 
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Deleted member 805385

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Did Safin really beat peak Fed? I don't think that was peak Fed. Maybe near peak.
 
Since I do almost nothing at work, I watched those matches and Nadal vs Verdasco entertained me much more. Especially those winners from Verdasco.

Verdasco was never in a position to win and was hanging on for most of the match. Nadal would hold easily (Verdasco’s return was always a liability) and Verdasco had to play out of his skin just to hold. To be honest, the match is overrated due to some weak hitting by Rafito to the Verdasco FH that allowed him to tee off.
 

Razer

G.O.A.T.
Did Safin really beat peak Fed? I don't think that was peak Fed. Maybe near peak.

Federer was at his peak in 2005..... 2005-2006 Federer IS PEAK FEDERER.... If that is not peak then it means there never was a peak Federer.

As I've said before, Safin is the only person who has beaten Peak Federer in a non clay Slam. no one else has.
 

aldeayeah

G.O.A.T.
Verdasco was never in a position to win and was hanging on for most of the match. Nadal would hold easily (Verdasco’s return was always a liability) and Verdasco had to play out of his skin just to hold. To be honest, the match is overrated due to some weak hitting by Rafito to the Verdasco FH that allowed him to tee off.
Nah the 4th set tiebreak is the truth.
 
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Deleted member 758560

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recallin that watched that match live and hype was really stronk in russia after that epic win for marat, and iirc he played that match on his birthday and freddy right after changing his t-shirt to white-colored one (color of surrender), he lost it
 

aldeayeah

G.O.A.T.
Verdasco was never in a position to win and was hanging on for most of the match.
That's a pretty weird take on a match where Verdasco won the first set and 3 sets went to a tiebreak.

Even if what you said may be right in hindsight, it didn't feel like that at the moment. Verdasco had already beaten Murray (who was considered a top contender for the title after his late 2008 run) and Tsonga in extended contests before the SF, and his eyes were full of belief.
 
That's a pretty weird take on a match where Verdasco won the first set and 3 sets went to a tiebreak.

Even if what you said may be right in hindsight, it didn't feel like that at the moment. Verdasco had already beaten Murray (who was considered a top contender for the title after his late 2008 run) and Tsonga in extended contests before the SF, and his eyes were full of belief.
To me it did even in the moment. Sooner or later, Dasco was going to lose serve while he couldn’t touch Rafito’s. This was especially so Int he final set when Rafiro won 16 points on the Verdasco serve and Verdasco won 3 on Nadal’s.
 

NatF

Bionic Poster
Well to be fair the looser of 2005 semi was better player than winner of 2005 semi, don't ask how Fed manage to do this type of thing
Safin GOAT'd when it mattered. Played his best tennis in the 4th and 5th.
 

The Blond Blur

G.O.A.T.
That's a pretty weird take on a match where Verdasco won the first set and 3 sets went to a tiebreak.

Even if what you said may be right in hindsight, it didn't feel like that at the moment. Verdasco had already beaten Murray (who was considered a top contender for the title after his late 2008 run) and Tsonga in extended contests before the SF, and his eyes were full of belief.
Especially after watching Gonzo and Tsonga in back to back years play a very similar all out aggressive game. I remember watching back in 09 after Dasco took the 4th set TB and thinking “Here we go again.”
 

bnjkn

Professional
Did Safin really beat peak Fed? I don't think that was peak Fed. Maybe near peak.
That was absolute peak Fed. He was the overwhelming favorite and was playing at peak level. Unbelieavable what Safin did there.
 

Roddickulous1

Semi-Pro
That was absolute peak Fed. He was the overwhelming favorite and was playing at peak level. Unbelieavable what Safin did there.

Nah, that wasn't peak Fed.

Federer had a blister on his toe which rarely gets mentioned. His movement towards the latter stages of the match falls off a bit. Commentators mention it multiple times during the match. Safin's own coach, Lundgren (Fed's former coach), said Fed's level was dropping off because of his foot injury. Fed also required treatment on his back and elbow before the 5th. I don't think it affected him a significant amount as some of the shot making in the 5th was amazing but I absolutely do believe it was a factor on certain points. In a tight match like that, those few points can be critical.

Also, Fed def blew opportunities in the match. He choked in the TB with two UEs on serve when he was up 5-2. He could've closed the match there. While I also have issue with the tweener he played, I think Safin wins that point anyway. There was also a bad call in the 5th when Safin was serving at 5 all 15-30. Safin's BH DTL was out which would've given Fed two BPs instead of 30-30. That's a pretty big difference. I also don't think Fed had his best serving day (8 DFs, one even on a BP in the 5th set which gave Safin the first break).

It's still a great performance by Safin. All areas of his game were zoning and I think he would've given Fed a tough battle either way (see 04 TMC SF for reference) but I think he loses that match 8 or 9 times out of 10 if replayed.
 

RS

Bionic Poster
Nah, that wasn't peak Fed.

Federer had a blister on his toe which rarely gets mentioned. His movement towards the latter stages of the match falls off a bit. Commentators mention it multiple times during the match. Safin's own coach, Lundgren (Fed's former coach), said Fed's level was dropping off because of his foot injury. Fed also required treatment on his back and elbow before the 5th. I don't think it affected him a significant amount as some of the shot making in the 5th was amazing but I absolutely do believe it was a factor on certain points. In a tight match like that, those few points can be critical.

Also, Fed def blew opportunities in the match. He choked in the TB with two UEs on serve when he was up 5-2. He could've closed the match there. While I also have issue with the tweener he played, I think Safin wins that point anyway. There was also a bad call in the 5th when Safin was serving at 5 all 15-30. Safin's BH DTL was out which would've given Fed two BPs instead of 30-30. That's a pretty big difference. I also don't think Fed had his best serving day (8 DFs, one even on a BP in the 5th set which gave Safin the first break).

It's still a great performance by Safin. All areas of his game were zoning and I think he would've given Fed a tough battle either way (see 04 TMC SF for reference) but I think he loses that match 8 or 9 times out of 10 if replayed.
Safin AO 04 QF vs Roddick AO 03 QF 10 match series?
 

bnjkn

Professional
Nah, that wasn't peak Fed.

Federer had a blister on his toe which rarely gets mentioned. His movement towards the latter stages of the match falls off a bit. Commentators mention it multiple times during the match. Safin's own coach, Lundgren (Fed's former coach), said Fed's level was dropping off because of his foot injury. Fed also required treatment on his back and elbow before the 5th. I don't think it affected him a significant amount as some of the shot making in the 5th was amazing but I absolutely do believe it was a factor on certain points. In a tight match like that, those few points can be critical.

Also, Fed def blew opportunities in the match. He choked in the TB with two UEs on serve when he was up 5-2. He could've closed the match there. While I also have issue with the tweener he played, I think Safin wins that point anyway. There was also a bad call in the 5th when Safin was serving at 5 all 15-30. Safin's BH DTL was out which would've given Fed two BPs instead of 30-30. That's a pretty big difference. I also don't think Fed had his best serving day (8 DFs, one even on a BP in the 5th set which gave Safin the first break).

It's still a great performance by Safin. All areas of his game were zoning and I think he would've given Fed a tough battle either way (see 04 TMC SF for reference) but I think he loses that match 8 or 9 times out of 10 if replayed.
It wasn't peak like AO 07 but it was definitely stronger than AO 06.

Anyway, I didn't know about the blister. Love that match. Match point was epic.
 
Sets 1-4 of the 09 SF were of a higher quality.

cmZpIG.gif


But the 5th set of the 05 SF was clearly better. So overall 09 > 05 imo.
To be fair, 1st set was higher quality in 05, even if more one-sided
2nd and 3rd better in 09
4th around equal and 5th much better in 05.

5th set in 2005 likely sets it apart due to Verdasco falling apart badly, but otherwise the quality was fairly consistent between Safin, Fed, Nadal and Verdasco (except 5th)
 

The Blond Blur

G.O.A.T.
To be fair, 1st set was higher quality in 05, even if more one-sided
2nd and 3rd better in 09
4th around equal and 5th much better in 05.

5th set in 2005 likely sets it apart due to Verdasco falling apart badly, but otherwise the quality was fairly consistent between Safin, Fed, Nadal and Verdasco (except 5th)
That’s why I can’t consider it to be better tbh. On aggregate 09 was the better match imo. I mean the final point tally was 193-192. It doesn’t get any closer than that. Plus I think Fed should have closed put the 05 SF in 4, but he left the door open for Marat and paid the price for it.
 

NatF

Bionic Poster
That’s why I can’t consider it to be better tbh. On aggregate 09 was the better match imo. I mean the final point tally was 193-192. It doesn’t get any closer than that. Plus I think Fed should have closed put the 05 SF in 4, but he left the door open for Marat and paid the price for it.
I'd say 2009 was more consistent but 2005 had higher highs and peaking in final two sets (particularly the fifth) nudges it over for me. But fair enough (y)
 

ChrisRF

Legend
Nah, that wasn't peak Fed.

Federer had a blister on his toe which rarely gets mentioned. His movement towards the latter stages of the match falls off a bit. Commentators mention it multiple times during the match. Safin's own coach, Lundgren (Fed's former coach), said Fed's level was dropping off because of his foot injury. Fed also required treatment on his back and elbow before the 5th. I don't think it affected him a significant amount as some of the shot making in the 5th was amazing but I absolutely do believe it was a factor on certain points. In a tight match like that, those few points can be critical.

Also, Fed def blew opportunities in the match. He choked in the TB with two UEs on serve when he was up 5-2. He could've closed the match there. While I also have issue with the tweener he played, I think Safin wins that point anyway. There was also a bad call in the 5th when Safin was serving at 5 all 15-30. Safin's BH DTL was out which would've given Fed two BPs instead of 30-30. That's a pretty big difference. I also don't think Fed had his best serving day (8 DFs, one even on a BP in the 5th set which gave Safin the first break).

It's still a great performance by Safin. All areas of his game were zoning and I think he would've given Fed a tough battle either way (see 04 TMC SF for reference) but I think he loses that match 8 or 9 times out of 10 if replayed.
Yes, very good comment. Those things are usually overlooked when talking about this so-called "beating of peak Federer".

Because certainly it was during his peak ERA, but that doesn't mean it was a peak match or even peak tournament. His QF win over Agassi was impressive, but in the earlier rounds commentators talked about Federer not being in especially good form. Best examples were the Suzuki and Nieminen match.

And then there were those injury issues in the SF. Federer had a back tension that lead to a numb feeling in his right arm and also to pain in his foot after he tried to reduce the back issues by moving slightly differently.

You are also right about the missed opportunities. Actually the course of the Safin match was not much different from the Davydenko QF next year, only that Federer got over the finish line then, after almost choking the 4th set TB in the same way. Davydenko also had 6 set points in the 3rd set. He could have very well won that match.

All in all it seems like one loss outside clay during the 4 peak years just had to happen one day, and Safin simply was the one to be at the right place at the right time. As you said, of course he must have played a good match to achieve that, but nevertheless it was exaggerated to epic proportions as the years went by. In fact both Federer (72-59) and Safin (65-60) only had slightly more winners than unforced errors.

Also Safin himself missed a 5-2 lead and several match points in the 5th set (even though it should have been long over then). I have a feeling if it wouldn't have been the "cool" Safin, the usual suspects here would call that a massive choke.
 
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aldeayeah

G.O.A.T.
To me it did even in the moment. Sooner or later, Dasco was going to lose serve while he couldn’t touch Rafito’s. This was especially so Int he final set when Rafiro won 16 points on the Verdasco serve and Verdasco won 3 on Nadal’s.
I just rechecked. Other than the last set, Nadal and Verdasco were almost even on return point win %. Unsurprisingly Verdasco won more on the 1st and 4th, while Nadal won more on the 2nd and 3rd sets. I'm not sure your memory of the match is accurate.
 

RS

Bionic Poster
I just rechecked. Other than the last set, Nadal and Verdasco were almost even on return point win %. Unsurprisingly Verdasco won more on the 1st and 4th, while Nadal won more on the 2nd and 3rd sets. I'm not sure your memory of the match is accurate.
Dasco had a quite low number of BP's compared to Nadal IIRC he had 4 or 5 and Nadal had 20.
 
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