The 3.5 Lifers Club, Charter Member

[Cindysphinx]

There is no way no now I am ever going to become a 4.0 player. I have accepted it. That's just the way it's gonna be. I'm a 3.5 lifer.

It seems that the computer was built to make sure I stay at 3.5. I mean, I can see that I am getting better. I practice a lot, I learn new things.

The computer cares not about such things. Take two of my recent matches, both in ladies doubles that will count toward ratings.

In the first match, I was partnered with a 3.5 lady who rarely wins. This means my rating is probably slightly higher than hers. We played a 4.0 match against two computer-rated 4.0 players, on Court One. We won the first set 6-4. We folded like a napkin in the second set 0-6. We won the match tiebreak easily.

Alas, the computer sees that our opponents won 10 games and we won 7. That won't help our ratings, now will it?

Then today I played with a 3.5 partner who probably has a rating higher than mine. We played two strong 3.5 ladies. We won the first set 6-3. Then we lost the second set 0-6 and lost the tiebreak badly. The computer will see this match as 10 games to 6.

That's how it is being a Lifer. I was happy with how I played. I put away all of my volleys for winners. I served effectively into the wind and into the sun. My service returns were so strong that my opponents finally resorted to Aussie and then just played two back on their own serves for the remainder of the match. This is huge, huge progress, but the computer is nonplussed.

So. My fate is sealed. When I lose, the computer sees me as a loser. And when I win, the computer sees me as a loser.

Anybody else feeling like 3.5 might be the end of the road?

 

[goober]

Play all next year on a 4.0 team. If you are competitive, which I suspect you will be, you will likely get bumped.

It sounds like you take a lot of lessons, so maybe you should also focus on other things- fitness, mental, pairing up with only strong partners so you rating doesn't get dragged down (j/k about the last one).

 

[johndagolfer]

Hey Cindy,

I used to think I would never get back to my peak of 4.5.

I was 100lb's heavier(269), had gouty athritic ankles (misdiagnosed for 8 years), and couldn't run 2 blocks without gasping for breath.

A year and a half later I am 212, my gout is under better control (though the damage to my ankles will never fully heal), and I run 4 miles 4 times a weak.

Even better I am going to be 9 - 1 against 3.5's and 2 - 0 against 4.0s.

I guess the question you have to ask yourself is...what's holding you back? For me the answer was obvious. For you it may not be as much so.

Is the computer? Your partner? A glaring weakness in your game? Find it and if you want to get to 4.0 work to fix it.

 

[sureshs]

Sometimes there is no way to beat age and genetics, though we all wish we could.

 

[magmasilk]

Based on TT speculation and likely ratings formulas, both matches improve your dynamic rating.

Of course, just playing 4.0 matches will probably get your rating to 4.0 quicker. On the other hand, if you move to 4.0, you will have less league tennis playing options. Obviously, you can play up, but you can't play down.

 

[escii_35]

At certain point it comes down to off court training and genetics. With crappy reflexes and hands of stone there is just no way I'll reach 4.5 dubs. At one point I tried to get super fit for a shot a low end 4.5 singles. Guess what happened, the bod started breaking in all sorts of new and exciting (expensive) ways.

All the lessons and strat don't mean doo doo if you can't get yourself in a winning position in time to execute.

I'm ok with playing .500 ball in 4.0 sgls and 8.0 mxd. However, my record in 4.0 dubs is so horrific I no longer play unless there is on court beer and music it's just not fun.

 

[Devilito]

what's with Americans and this computer rating crap. Does any other country in the world do this?

 

[Cindysphinx]

^I'm not hell bent on becoming a 4.0. Being a strong 3.5 is kinda sweet, because I have more playing opportunities. If I become a 4.0, I really can't play 7.0 mixed anymore, for instance.

It does feel weird to be playing these demanding leagues (8.0 mixed, 4.0 ladies) and be viewed as the player who really doesn't belong.

 

[tennislefty]

hey Cindy,
Im not sure you want to her this, but be careful what you wish for. Ratings are just a number. i would venture to guess your goal is to be a better player, period.
heck, im no expert but i can tell you if you start playing the system and not the ball, you will loose. i do not reccommend doing what Goober says, only play up? this is not good, looks bad in the system. go with the 3.5 this year, play your heart out, tell yourself each time you walk on a court that you are the player to beat, its kind of fun walking around knowing your one of the best 3.5 on the country. it wont be this way for long, as you will move up. get to post season with a team, play on multiple 3.5 teams, play some 4.0 but dont prioritize it, people talk about the "only playing up club", there are a few that have played the system:, making sure they always play with better partners is one thing they do. dont take the easy way up to move the ranking on paper only, play with partners who bring out your best game, and play alot of 3.5, you are a very, very high 3,5, what you need is pressure matches to work on, learn to think and stop thinking at the same time during a match. also sign up for other tennis leagues besides USTA, : GWTA, Foxy's, interclub, potwell etc. as for your fitness, your fitter than 99.9 % of people 10 years younger,..most importantly, when walking on a court smile big, hold your shoulders back and say, to yourself, she'll never beat me "

 

[Oldracquet27]

^I'm not hell bent on becoming a 4.0. Being a strong 3.5 is kinda sweet, because I have more playing opportunities. If I become a 4.0, I really can't play 7.0 mixed anymore, for instance.

It does feel weird to be playing these demanding leagues (8.0 mixed, 4.0 ladies) and be viewed as the player who really doesn't belong.

Do you like to play singles? At 3.5 if you have decent strokes you will win a lot if you can be consistent even if you don't have a lot of speed. Then i would also join the 4.0 while playing 3.5s and play a lot of doubles at 4.0. They know you are playing higher , not need to feel you don't belong, players do that all the time.

 

[goober]

^I'm not hell bent on becoming a 4.0. Being a strong 3.5 is kinda sweet, because I have more playing opportunities. If I become a 4.0, I really can't play 7.0 mixed anymore, for instance.

.

Oh I thought this was a self pity thread. Nevermind continue on...

 

[ohplease]

I say this as a likely lifetime club player: it doesn't matter.

What the computer thinks of your game is fundamentally going to have some inaccuracies relative to how you're really doing. Given that, go be the best player you can be. If that means 3.5 - great. If that means higher or lower - great. Just don't fall into the trap of settling into the top of one level and stagnating because you're in demand, as so many other players do.

This weekend, I got randomly bludgeoned by some guy who hadn't played in over a year, who was borrowing my own spare racket. He was nationally ranked as a junior and played Division I college tennis. His attitude towards NTRP is "who cares?" - and he's right.

Get better. If and/or when the computer catches on does not matter.

 

[spaceman_spiff]

what's with Americans and this computer rating crap. Does any other country in the world do this?

This is to ensure that the leagues are made up of players who are roughly the same skill level (except self-rated ringers obviously). Personally, I miss this system.

Ever since I moved to England 5 years ago, every match has been anyone's guess as to what the other team will be like. For example, last Wednesday I played two sets against a pair who would probably be 5.0/5.5 (teaching pro) and 4.5, but then I played two sets against their teammates who were both probably 3.5/4.0.

This type of thing happens all the time, because the leagues here are based on the team's results the previous season rather than the current players' ratings. So, if a team gets promoted to the top division but then their best players move away, they're going to end up with weak players getting blown away every match by the guys who really are top-division players. Or, if a team drops down but then picks up a couple of good players, they could blow everyone away in that lower division.

The only rule they have is that you can't play for a lower team if you have played 2 matches for one of the higher teams from your club. This way, a club can't get guys playing for multiple teams to help the lower ones get bumped up.

 

[spaceman_spiff]

We won the first set 6-4. We folded like a napkin in the second set 0-6. We won the match tiebreak easily.

We won the first set 6-3. Then we lost the second set 0-6 and lost the tiebreak badly.

Just straying off topic a bit. Is there a wider trend of you losing badly in second sets, or is this just a couple of bad examples? If it is a trend, have you ever sat down and analyzed what the problem is?

I could understand if you were losing second sets that were still close (maybe your opponents started worse and played a bit better while you played the same). But to have such a dramatic turnaround, not being able to win a game after having won the first set, sounds like a major problem that deserves some attention.

 

[Cindysphinx]

hey Cindy,
Im not sure you want to her this, but be careful what you wish for. Ratings are just a number. i would venture to guess your goal is to be a better player, period.
heck, im no expert but i can tell you if you start playing the system and not the ball, you will loose. i do not reccommend doing what Goober says, only play up? this is not good, looks bad in the system. go with the 3.5 this year, play your heart out, tell yourself each time you walk on a court that you are the player to beat, its kind of fun walking around knowing your one of the best 3.5 on the country. it wont be this way for long, as you will move up. get to post season with a team, play on multiple 3.5 teams, play some 4.0 but dont prioritize it, people talk about the "only playing up club", there are a few that have played the system:, making sure they always play with better partners is one thing they do. dont take the easy way up to move the ranking on paper only, play with partners who bring out your best game, and play alot of 3.5, you are a very, very high 3,5, what you need is pressure matches to work on, learn to think and stop thinking at the same time during a match. also sign up for other tennis leagues besides USTA, : GWTA, Foxy's, interclub, potwell etc. as for your fitness, your fitter than 99.9 % of people 10 years younger,..most importantly, when walking on a court smile big, hold your shoulders back and say, to yourself, she'll never beat me "

About two years ago, I set getting bumped to 4.0 as a goal. I figured I would try to be a 4.0 in the year I turned 50.

This goal sucked the fun right out of tennis.

Every time I took the court, I felt pressure to win. If my partner didn't play well, I was secretly deeply unhappy with her. I started thinking about line-ups and partners in terms of what would help my rating. I wasn't playing well. In fact, I felt I was playing worse, very tight.

After a few weeks of this, I dropped the goal. I started playing better and feeling better and having fun.

Nah, being a Lifer will be OK if it comes to that. In the meantime, I need to work on my transition game!

 

[crystal_clear]

Cindy, I feel your pain. Life is not fair, neither is the computer.

Keep on improving, good thing will happen.

 

[pennc94]

As others have posted already, the NTRP is just a number.

Anyway, the results of your two matches in your OP indicate that you are a 3.5 (for now). Win or lose, losing any set 0-6 is no good. The 1st set that you won in those matches may have been a fluke. It is difficult to lose a set 0-6 without being dominated.

That said, the 4.0 standard for age 50+ is lower, so you may get your 4.0 sooner than you think.

 

[goober]

That said, the 4.0 standard for age 50+ is lower, so you may get your 4.0 sooner than you think.

How is the 4.0 standard for age 50+ lower?

 

[Nor'easter]

How is the 4.0 standard for age 50+ lower?

Yeah, I'm wondering the same thing. The dynamic rating doesn't recognize or compute the ages of the players.

 

[pennc94]

How is the 4.0 standard for age 50+ lower?

Senior players tend to move up in NTRP when playing primarily senior leagues. As a result, the typical 4.0 senior is weaker than the typical non-senior 4.0. This is based on my observation.

 

[goober]

Senior players tend to move up in NTRP when playing primarily senior leagues. As a result, the typical 4.0 senior is weaker than the typical non-senior 4.0. This is based on my observation.

I haven't observed this at all. Most seniors I have seen stay at the same level the were before they turned 50. In fact since you could argue that the competition is actually somewhat tougher since they only play doubles in the senior division. If you gave me a group of middle of the road 4.0s (no sandbaggers or ringers) playing doubles, I would take a group of 50 year olds over a group of 30 year olds any day. If you had trouble winning at 4.0 doubles in the regular adult league I can assure you that you will not start dominating a 4.0 seniors doubles league. For one thing you will be facing a lot of the same people in both leauges. Secondly, everbody is experienced at doubles in the seniors division. You won't run across any young singles players thrown into doubles.

I honestly can't think of a single senior that had went up in NTRP after playing seniors exclusively.

 

[pennc94]

I haven't observed this at all. Most seniors I have seen stay at the same level the were before they turned 50. In fact since you could argue that the competition is actually somewhat tougher since they only play doubles in the senior division. If you gave me a group of middle of the road 4.0s (no sandbaggers or ringers) playing doubles, I would take a group of 50 year olds over a group of 30 year olds any day. If you had trouble winning at 4.0 doubles in the regular adult league I can assure you that you will not start dominating a 4.0 seniors doubles league. For one thing you will be facing a lot of the same people in both leauges. Secondly, everbody is experienced at doubles in the seniors division. You won't run across any young singles players thrown into doubles.

I honestly can't think of a single senior that had went up in NTRP after playing seniors exclusively.

I guess our experiences are different, because I know of several senior 4.0 players that were bumped to 4.5 when they were really middle of the road 4.0 adult players. Because they won often in senior 4.0, they were bumped. They are going to get roasted in 4.5 adult.

 

[skiracer55]

Bingo...

I say this as a likely lifetime club player: it doesn't matter.

What the computer thinks of your game is fundamentally going to have some inaccuracies relative to how you're really doing. Given that, go be the best player you can be. If that means 3.5 - great. If that means higher or lower - great. Just don't fall into the trap of settling into the top of one level and stagnating because you're in demand, as so many other players do.

This weekend, I got randomly bludgeoned by some guy who hadn't played in over a year, who was borrowing my own spare racket. He was nationally ranked as a junior and played Division I college tennis. His attitude towards NTRP is "who cares?" - and he's right.

Get better. If and/or when the computer catches on does not matter.

...go see my thread "On NTRP", where in my second post, I say that one of my objections to NTRP is that it tends to be self-limiting:

http://tt.tennis-warehouse.com/showthread.php?t=375284

 

[Spokewench]

I guess our experiences are different, because I know of several senior 4.0 players that were bumped to 4.5 when they were really middle of the road 4.0 adult players. Because they won often in senior 4.0, they were bumped. They are going to get roasted in 4.5 adult.

In our area, our 50 plusers get bumped up all the time. A ton of my friends are 50 plusers and they all have moved up in the last 5 years.

 

[Cindysphinx]

Just straying off topic a bit. Is there a wider trend of you losing badly in second sets, or is this just a couple of bad examples? If it is a trend, have you ever sat down and analyzed what the problem is?

I could understand if you were losing second sets that were still close (maybe your opponents started worse and played a bit better while you played the same). But to have such a dramatic turnaround, not being able to win a game after having won the first set, sounds like a major problem that deserves some attention.

Mmmm, I don't think so. Although there is a mini-trend.

I usually serve pretty well. In doubles, this means there will be a lot of defensive returns and floaters. If I have a partner who will be aggressive up there, I play great. I feel no pressure, I trust my partner, we play better than the sum of the parts.

Well . . . my Main, Go-To partner tore her achilles tendon last week. She will be out for the foreseeable future. We were ridiculous together, with each of us mopping up for the other at net.

In my most recent match with a new partner, she did the same thing -- played the net great. We won the first set. Then in the second set, she started missing her volleys and struggling on everything else.

The mini-trend is that I start struggling when my partner starts struggling. So I start playing more defensively. I start lobbing, I stay back. I start hitting serves calculated to keep my partner out of the point. I take balls I shouldn't take. This, clearly, is something I need to work on, 'cause it doesn't help to have one partner lose her head just because the other has hit a bad patch.

 

[Cindysphinx]

I haven't observed this at all. Most seniors I have seen stay at the same level the were before they turned 50. In fact since you could argue that the competition is actually somewhat tougher since they only play doubles in the senior division. If you gave me a group of middle of the road 4.0s (no sandbaggers or ringers) playing doubles, I would take a group of 50 year olds over a group of 30 year olds any day. If you had trouble winning at 4.0 doubles in the regular adult league I can assure you that you will not start dominating a 4.0 seniors doubles league. For one thing you will be facing a lot of the same people in both leauges. Secondly, everbody is experienced at doubles in the seniors division. You won't run across any young singles players thrown into doubles.

I honestly can't think of a single senior that had went up in NTRP after playing seniors exclusively.

I can't agree, Goober.

I can think of individuals whose senior doubles results are stronger than their adult/combo doubles results.

Now, I have only played two seniors matches, but I do think they were easier matches than comparable non-seniors matches. I could win points by moving the senior around with less effort than if I were playing a non-senior (a good topspin lob over the senior net person was a stone cold winner every time). To the extent I can still move a little, a lot of the weapons in the seniors' arsenal (e.g. drop shot) were easily managed.

 

[goober]

I guess our experiences are different, because I know of several senior 4.0 players that were bumped to 4.5 when they were really middle of the road 4.0 adult players. Because they won often in senior 4.0, they were bumped. They are going to get roasted in 4.5 adult.

Interesting. But all I see is around here is the same group playing the seniors division year after year at the same level. There are guys that have been in the 4.0 division for 10+ years. But it seems most seniors in the 50-60 range still play adult around here so maybe that is why they are not moving. The records of the seniors I have on my team and in the league are not really different and in some cases are worse in the senior compared to the adult leauges.

 

[tennislefty]

no! the 4.0 standard for seniors does not change..completely wrong, its the same bwnchmark throughout tennislink, i know many seniors anyway that are better than any under 50 player at the same level, in fact seniors are the smarter of the group, they have played the game and everything that comes with it much longer, i know i thought id jump right in and dominate the seniors, no way, i was shown quickly who has the control, and dont ever think a senior can be out powered, no way, ..

 

[Cindysphinx]

no! the 4.0 standard for seniors does not change..completely wrong, its the same bwnchmark throughout tennislink, i know many seniors anyway that are better than any under 50 player at the same level, in fact seniors are the smarter of the group, they have played the game and everything that comes with it much longer, i know i thought id jump right in and dominate the seniors, no way, i was shown quickly who has the control, and dont ever think a senior can be out powered, no way, ..

I think it may depend on what your game is and what bothers you.

The thing that unhinges me most is power. If someone hits hard and with lots of topspin, they will dominate me.

If someone relies on placement only (like drop shots), I feel I can hold my own better. Seniors players are all about placement, not power and topspin. I feel I can get to their ball and do something with it (especially the serve!).

That said, doesn't it have to be that the same 50+ player will do more poorly in adult than in seniors? After all, if that were not a fact there would be no reason to have seniors in the first place.

 

[jswinf]

There is no way no now I am ever going to become a 4.0 player. I have accepted it. That's just the way it's gonna be. I'm a 3.5 lifer.

At least you're a 7.0 TT poster!

 

[Fuji]

I respect you a lot for this. It takes a lot to realize your realistic goals! 4.0 will come in good time as you get some more experience I believe. It happened to me when I was bumped to 4.0. I didn't even really "want" to, but it happened anyway just from becoming better and getting better physically.

I was in the same situation as you a few years ago, when I was attempting to go to nationals for taekwondo! My only goal was to get good enough to compete on the the U18 National team, which my gym had 2 members on, but working for it totally took the fun out of it. I used to really enjoy it, but training 6 days a week for hours upon hours a day just really killed it, and wouldn't you know, it lead to injury! I ended up tearing out my right knee in a few places, and messing up my right hip.

Moral of the story is that even if 4.0 is your life time goal, do it reasonably. It's not worth wrecking yourself over! I'm sure since you are such a dedicated player, with the right partner and the right attitude, 4.0 will come for you!

-Fuji

 

[skiracer55]

Let's go back to square one...

There is no way no now I am ever going to become a 4.0 player. I have accepted it. That's just the way it's gonna be. I'm a 3.5 lifer.

It seems that the computer was built to make sure I stay at 3.5. I mean, I can see that I am getting better. I practice a lot, I learn new things.

The computer cares not about such things. Take two of my recent matches, both in ladies doubles that will count toward ratings.

In the first match, I was partnered with a 3.5 lady who rarely wins. This means my rating is probably slightly higher than hers. We played a 4.0 match against two computer-rated 4.0 players, on Court One. We won the first set 6-4. We folded like a napkin in the second set 0-6. We won the match tiebreak easily.

Alas, the computer sees that our opponents won 10 games and we won 7. That won't help our ratings, now will it?

Then today I played with a 3.5 partner who probably has a rating higher than mine. We played two strong 3.5 ladies. We won the first set 6-3. Then we lost the second set 0-6 and lost the tiebreak badly. The computer will see this match as 10 games to 6.

That's how it is being a Lifer. I was happy with how I played. I put away all of my volleys for winners. I served effectively into the wind and into the sun. My service returns were so strong that my opponents finally resorted to Aussie and then just played two back on their own serves for the remainder of the match. This is huge, huge progress, but the computer is nonplussed.

So. My fate is sealed. When I lose, the computer sees me as a loser. And when I win, the computer sees me as a loser.

Anybody else feeling like 3.5 might be the end of the road?

...which is...pardon my French, forget about the goddamn NTRP for a minute...what are your goals on a tennis court? If they are not bigger than "3.5, to 4.0," you are, IMHO, cheating yourself in terms of where you can go and the...joy!...yes, I said it, of what you can experience in your time on a tennis court.

If your NTRP rating is running your life, you need to get some serious perspective, starting with (a) Not playing tennis for while to see how that feels...because when you get back on the court again, you'll be grateful to hit any tennis ball, regardless of what level the NTRP computer thinks you are and (b) When you do, doing something, anything other than an NTRP match on a tennis court. There is life after NTRP on a tennis court, and you need to discover what that is...

Fine, even if your goals are NTRP related, it's a bit much to say "My fate is sealed...3.5 might be the end of the road.... ". Okay, I admit it...the NTRP computer, or the Wizard of Oz, or whomever in the hell is controlling everyone's ratings is...a few sandwiches short of a full picnic. So what? Because if you really want to be a 4.0, as opposed to a 3.5, you'll figure out a way to do it. Hint: play like a 5.0, and they won't be able to deny you your visa into 4.0dom...

So there it is...you want to condemn yourself to terminal 3.5hood, go right ahead. What's your other alternative? As they say in the Air Force, Aim High...

 

[Angle Queen]

I'll chime. As my sig says...I'm just looking to adjudicate myself and my age (group) well.

I'd kinda thought 4.0 might be in the cards for me this year...but, alas, 'twas not meant to be. Back when I started playing USTA (in '03 at 30-something after not picking up a racket since high school PE), I read the "self-rate" guidelines and put in as a 3.0. After reading those guidelines, I thought the highest I'd ever, ever reach was 3.5.

Now, some 8 years, 2 children and a host of low-cost clinics later, some of the (bolded) 4.0 stuff applies to me.

You have dependable strokes, including directional control and depth on both forehand and backhand sides on moderate-paced shots. You can use lobs, overheads, approach shots and volleys with some success and occasionally force errors when serving. Rallies may be lost due to impatience. Teamwork in doubles is evident.

Here's where I think the guidelines really don't speak to or identify the real difference of singles vs. doubles. I'm a 3.5 and my partner and I clearly are working together to win a point/game/match. We using finger signals for serving/poaching, play off each others strengths/weaknesses and switch/transition both with and without verbal communication. It's a grande luxury to have played with the same terrific partner for many times now. I like our chances against any other 3.5 pair out there.

It's against another 3.5 singles player where I have some doubts. Still, I'll venture I'll go 50-50 with them (we'll see; I'm actually playing some 3.5 singles this season). But against a decent 4.0, I'm probably toast. Their serves have much more pace/depth/variety and their passing shots/lobs are wonderfully consistent.

So, end result: I'm probably where I should be. Kind of on the high end of 3.5...who can give an average 4.0 a run for her money...but still lose. Do I still strive for 4.0 status? You bet. I'm too darn competitive to tank a match to keep my NTRP. I'd love to get up there, play my heart out, age a bit, drop back down. It's still all FUN!!!!

 

[Fuji]

I'll chime. As my sig says...I'm just looking to adjudicate myself and my age (group) well.

I'd kinda thought 4.0 might be in the cards for me this year...but, alas, 'twas not meant to be. Back when I started playing USTA (in '03 at 30-something after not picking up a racket since high school PE), I read the "self-rate" guidelines and put in as a 3.0. After reading those guidelines, I thought the highest I'd ever, ever reach was 3.5.

Now, some 8 years, 2 children and a host of low-cost clinics later, some of the (bolded) 4.0 stuff applies to me.



Here's where I think the guidelines really don't speak to or identify the real difference of singles vs. doubles. I'm a 3.5 and my partner and I clearly are working together to win a point/game/match. We using finger signals for serving/poaching, play off each others strengths/weaknesses and switch/transition both with and without verbal communication. It's a grande luxury to have played with the same terrific partner for many times now. I like our chances against any other 3.5 pair out there.

It's against another 3.5 singles player where I have some doubts. Still, I'll venture I'll go 50-50 with them (we'll see; I'm actually playing some 3.5 singles this season). But against a decent 4.0, I'm probably toast. Their serves have much more pace/depth/variety and their passing shots/lobs are wonderfully consistent.

So, end result: I'm probably where I should be. Kind of on the high end of 3.5...who can give an average 4.0 a run for her money...but still lose. Do I still strive for 4.0 status? You bet. I'm too darn competitive to tank a match to keep my NTRP. I'd love to get up there, play my heart out, age a bit, drop back down. It's still all FUN!!!!

I think you really hit something here. It's the same for me being a 4.0 singles and 4.5 doubles player. I can hold my own against 4.5 doubles, I was even able to take a set off a 5.0 player in doubles once! :twisted: But the thing is, if I were to play the higher levels in singles, I would get destroyed by their sheer consistency and power alone. Of course I would love to reach that level in the next decade, but it's not the biggest goal in life right now.

Also, Playing with the same doubles partner really helped me. I am not super picky when playing, but I definitely enjoy playing with my girlfriend as my doubles partner. We just have awesome chemistry! It for sure makes doubles a more fun and enjoyable for me.

-Fuji

 

[Angle Queen]

Also, Playing with the same doubles partner really helped me. I am not super picky when playing, but I definitely enjoy playing with my girlfriend as my doubles partner. We just have awesome chemistry! It for sure makes doubles a more fun and enjoyable for me.

-Fuji

This, this, this!!!! That's so much about why I love this game. Doubles. Same- or mixed-gendered. My ladies doubles partner and I...ahhhh...it's almost symbiotic. Off-court, we're friendly...but not bosom-buddies. Same age, same nerdy mental stuff but at completely different stations in life. Mixed partner, alas, is not hubs. We'd kill each other. He's not really a racket/ball sport kinda guy. But the guy I like playing with the most is fun -- to play with and be around. Luckily, his wife is also one cool customer and I'm actually helping/mentoring her along too. My goal is to see them win a 7.0 MX match together!!!

Love reading your posts, Fuji. You seem to have it all in perspective (tennis & life). In that regard, I'm somewhat envious of your GF. Wish my SO really, really understood how special tennis is to me. He's supportive, but only to a certain extent. Still, he's the love-of-my-life, a great dad to our kids and I wouldn't want to live without him.

 

[Fuji]

This, this, this!!!! That's so much about why I love this game. Doubles. Same- or mixed-gendered. My ladies doubles partner and I...ahhhh...it's almost symbiotic. Off-court, we're friendly...but not bosom-buddies. Same age, same nerdy mental stuff but at completely different stations in life. Mixed partner, alas, is not hubs. We'd kill each other. He's not really a racket/ball sport kinda guy. But the guy I like playing with the most is fun -- to play with and be around. Luckily, his wife is also one cool customer and I'm actually helping/mentoring her along too. My goal is to see them win a 7.0 MX match together!!!

Love reading your posts, Fuji. You seem to have it all in perspective (tennis & life). In that regard, I'm somewhat envious of your GF. Wish my SO really, really understood how special tennis is to me. He's supportive, but only to a certain extent. Still, he's the love-of-my-life, a great dad to our kids and I wouldn't want to live without him.

Thank you very much! I'm glad people actually read my posts, it means a lot to me!

My GF was actually the one that got me started in tennis (seriously) way back when. Her grandparents play(ed) a lot, and her dad never has told us the truth about how much he played before we were even born, but the guy plays at 20% and still destroys us both LOL! We're both pretty sure he was at around a 5.5 or 6.0 in the 70's and 80's. They were both a huge motivation for me to get better at tennis!

Haha trust me, we love playing mixed doubles together, but she has such a busy life outside of tennis which are other hobbies and on the road to becoming a psychologist, when we actually do get to play tennis a few times a month together, it's really really special. If your S.O. has some free time, why not go out and hit with him to show him your passion for the game, (if you haven't already). You guys might find something really fun and enjoyable to do when you both have some off time!

Oh and to playing doubles without my GF, it's fun, but not as enjoyable for me. I like having that emotional connection with people when I play tennis, regardless of who it is, with my lady friend, it's just amplified ten-fold!

-Fuji

 

[spaceman_spiff]

Mmmm, I don't think so. Although there is a mini-trend.

I usually serve pretty well. In doubles, this means there will be a lot of defensive returns and floaters. If I have a partner who will be aggressive up there, I play great. I feel no pressure, I trust my partner, we play better than the sum of the parts.

Well . . . my Main, Go-To partner tore her achilles tendon last week. She will be out for the foreseeable future. We were ridiculous together, with each of us mopping up for the other at net.

In my most recent match with a new partner, she did the same thing -- played the net great. We won the first set. Then in the second set, she started missing her volleys and struggling on everything else.

The mini-trend is that I start struggling when my partner starts struggling. So I start playing more defensively. I start lobbing, I stay back. I start hitting serves calculated to keep my partner out of the point. I take balls I shouldn't take. This, clearly, is something I need to work on, 'cause it doesn't help to have one partner lose her head just because the other has hit a bad patch.

I'm much the same in that my whole game is designed to set up my partner with putaways using my serves and returns, which are my strengths.

I used to do something similar to you when my partner would start to struggle, and I found that things just went downhill. (I would try to do everything myself, but I would just end up making more mistakes.) So, I decided to change.

Now, if my partner is starting to miss, I try to set them up with more putaway chances (preferably the easy type); I really focus on picking on my opponents' weaknesses to get them popping stuff up. I also compliment my partner on any shots they hit that set me up for a putaway. I find that a few easy putaways and some thanks for the setups I get can stop the slide and get my partner back to normal.

 

[Cereal68]

I had a little 'discussion' with myself about this very topic a couple of weeks ago while on court!

I'm a 3.5C and was playing 2 singles against a player clearly brought in to avoid a default.

The discussion started with, "Do I really want to win this match 6-0, 6-0, because that won't help me get bumpted to 4.0."

I won the match 6-0,6-0.

Just play tennis and let the ratings take care of themselves. If you're truly in between, you'll win most of your 3.5 matches and lose most of your 4.0 matches. Maybe you can postpone your 'bump' until you're a strong 4.0 and will be able to move right into another winning season

 

[Cereal68]

Shhh! The computer knows what you're thinking.

People only get bumped up when they don't want to be bumped up.

If you want to be bumped to 4.0, start plotting to put together a National Championships bound 3.5 team

 

[Cindysphinx]

So much interesting stuff in this thread (and yes, Fuji, we read and enjoy your posts!!):

It's against another 3.5 singles player where I have some doubts. Still, I'll venture I'll go 50-50 with them (we'll see; I'm actually playing some 3.5 singles this season). But against a decent 4.0, I'm probably toast. Their serves have much more pace/depth/variety and their passing shots/lobs are wonderfully consistent.

Having just completed a tennis ladder that consisted largely of 4.0 singles specialists, I learned a lot about that particular animal.

In addition to the things Angle Queen identified, there is one other things that 4.0 singles players have that a 3.5 doubles player does not: A Tennis Identity.

Each 4.0 had figured out what she did well and elevated it to a high art. The cast of characters included:

The Lob Queen. The "Smack Your Serve To The Corner And Crash The Net" player. The Relentlessly Consistent Baseliner. The Variety Specialist. The Slicer. The Power Hitter. The Retriever With No Strokes But Great Wheels. The All Court Player (who majored in patience and minored in sneak attacks on the net). And of course, The Pusher.

I lost to all of these players. Each had things they couldn't do well at all. But they had figured out their game.

I don't think it is possible to do well at 4.0 singles without a well-developed Tennis Identity. At the moment, I don't have one. But I think I know what it needs to be.

I need to become the Topspin Master with a punishing transition game.

Just yesterday, I played singles against a 3.5 teammate. She happens to be the Other Student of my current pro, although she has been with him much longer. I got a glance into my future (hopefully).

She was Topspin Master+. I swear, it felt like I was playing Nadal, and now I know how Federer feels. I felt like I should have brought a step ladder so I could better climb the back of the bubble to reach her balls. These were not lobs, my friends. These were topspin drives (by a woman who is five feet tall) with so much topspin that I either had to back way up or hit on the rise. And if you think timing a topspin ball like that is easy . . . it isn't. At the end, I actually had some success by volleying these balls from just inside the baseline, as experience had taught me that those balls were dropping in if I bounced them.

So. It is (and I'm lookin' at you, SkiRacer) all about improvement, not NTRP. It is sort of jarring when you think the computer doesn't recognize your Mad Tennis Skillz. But I'll survive.

 

[Xisbum]

...which is...pardon my French, forget about the goddamn NTRP for a minute...what are your goals on a tennis court? If they are not bigger than "3.5, to 4.0," you are, IMHO, cheating yourself in terms of where you can go and the...joy!...yes, I said it, of what you can experience in your time on a tennis court.

If your NTRP rating is running your life, you need to get some serious perspective, starting with (a) Not playing tennis for while to see how that feels...because when you get back on the court again, you'll be grateful to hit any tennis ball, regardless of what level the NTRP computer thinks you are and (b) When you do, doing something, anything other than an NTRP match on a tennis court. There is life after NTRP on a tennis court, and you need to discover what that is...

Fine, even if your goals are NTRP related, it's a bit much to say "My fate is sealed...3.5 might be the end of the road.... ". Okay, I admit it...the NTRP computer, or the Wizard of Oz, or whomever in the hell is controlling everyone's ratings is...a few sandwiches short of a full picnic. So what? Because if you really want to be a 4.0, as opposed to a 3.5, you'll figure out a way to do it. Hint: play like a 5.0, and they won't be able to deny you your visa into 4.0dom...

So there it is...you want to condemn yourself to terminal 3.5hood, go right ahead. What's your other alternative? As they say in the Air Force, Aim High...

Surprisingly, I agree with you here. Just hitting a tennis ball is, to me, as much fun as winning the last point in a tournament final. I can easily envision a wonderful tennis life just hitting with friends for an hour or two every day, whatever artificial level USTA says we are. In that relaxed situation, I can work on my weaknesses and help my hitting partners work on theirs.

In competitive tennis, I try to make every point a game in and of itself. That way, even if the match score is 0 and 1, you can walk away with positive thoughts on the points you won or played well on. Obviously, with that attitude, I do better in singles and tournament play, even at my advanced age, where no one else depends on my performance.

While I railed against USTA when its computers bumped me to 4.0, I have finally made peace with it to the point where I don't really care what level USTA says I am. As long as the game is still fun, I can say with pride that I'm a tennis player, period, end of story.

 

[tennismonkey]

In addition to the things Angle Queen identified, there is one other things that 4.0 singles players have that a 3.5 doubles player does not: A Tennis Identity.

Each 4.0 had figured out what she did well and elevated it to a high art.

agree completely. went to my area's sectionals last year and saw some 4.0 ladies single matches. 3.5 ladies too for that matter. and the commonality is like cindy said. they know their game. they know what they do well. and they stick to it. no deviation. i'd bet they don't ever go to a game plan B. not even sure they have a game plan B to fall back on. if they're grinders - they grind. if they are slice and dicers - they sliced and they diced. and if they were lobbers -- they lobbed. a lot.

wonder if you cindy wouldn't be well served trying to figure out what your strengths are and sticking to your guns.

i have a hitting partner who is an absolutely ridiculous serve and volleyer and his net game is unbelievable. he is not infallible and there are times when he's off. but he doesn't change and suddenly start baseline bashing. nope he just keeps on coming in.

 

[ttbrowne]

Cindy, Count me in. My job will not let me play more than a couple of matches a month now. I could've been a 4.0, and even played at that level but I'm happy to join your team!!

 

[Cindysphinx]

Well, I know what my tennis identity is not.

I will never be a grinder. Or slicer. Or lobber (lobbers get no respect).

I think spinmaster who finishes at the net will work. I need better footwork and way more rackethead speed though . . . .

 

[jc4.0]

If you want to move up, you need to win more. It's a simple fact. No use whining about it. The better player ultimately wins the match.

Having said that, understand that many times you will play well, play your very best - and lose. Usually it's because you (or your team) made more errors than your opponent, not because they hit you off the court. I've learned from long experience that being consistent is more important than making aggressive winners - you have to play smarter, not harder. Take a page from Wosniacki's book - not my favorite player - but she has taken a mediocre game to its highest echelon. She rarely makes an impressive winner, but she doesn't miss. I hope this isn't the future of women's tennis, but her style of play does help us amateurs win more.

Having said that - I'd really rather poke a stick in my eye than be labeled a "defensive" player. One day I'll be making those aggressive shots, instead of missing too many. It's what keeps me going in this game, I've always got ample room to improve.

 

[mucat]

Sometimes there is no way to beat age and genetics, though we all wish we could.

I am feeling it every year. Just when I can hit through people with brutal force more often, I can't get to the damn ball...

 

[Nor'easter]

To the NTRPers feeling stuck at your current level. Have faith... at our recent USTA captain's meeting, Bob Greene, originator of the NTRP rating system stated that you may just be an anomaly and that perhaps the computer hasn't quite caught up with you yet. Know that your current dynamic rating is based off of the last three matches you've played. It resets itself every 4th match. Make a good run towards the end of the season!!

 

[skiracer55]

Way to go...

"So. It is (and I'm lookin' at you, SkiRacer) all about improvement, not NTRP. It is sort of jarring when you think the computer doesn't recognize your Mad Tennis Skillz. But I'll survive."

You will not only survive, you will get better, as in lots better. 4.0 ain't the end of the road for you, not by a long shot. In your travels, make some time to get to the Denver area, and we will take the next step, together...

 

[Cindysphinx]

To the NTRPers feeling stuck at your current level. Have faith... at our recent USTA captain's meeting, Bob Greene, originator of the NTRP rating system stated that you may just be an anomaly and that perhaps the computer hasn't quite caught up with you yet. Know that your current dynamic rating is based off of the last three matches you've played. It resets itself every 4th match. Make a good run towards the end of the season!!

I can vouch for this. I hit a terrible slump at the end of the adult season. It was really weird . . .