The ATP schedule discussion 2021-onwards

#1
Okay so Turin changes things up with WTF but there's plenty changes that could be made in the schedule and format itself.

As many have brought up, there isn't a Masters preceeding 2 of the Slams. AO doesn't even have a 500 event. Meanwhile you got 2 Masters jammed together before the USO where often top players choose between the two.

Then there's the matter of the grass season as we all know where Halle and Queens play at the same time for 500 level.

Now we know Sydney is going for a team competition prior to AO so obviously Masters talk right now in Australia isn't realistic.

So these are logistical changes that could be made:

Brisbane upgrade to 500
Halle upgrade to Masters
Queens moved a week back, grass extended 1 week (Wimbledon starts a week later)
Canada moved a week back
Paris dropped to 500
 
Last edited:
#4
Okay so Turin changes things up with WTF but there's plenty changes that could be made in the schedule and format itself.

As many have brought up, there isn't a Masters preceeding 2 of the Slams. AO doesn't even have a 500 event. Meanwhile you got 2 Masters jammed together before the USO where often top players choose between the two.

Then there's the matter of the grass season as we all know where Halle and Queens play at the same time for 500 level.

Now we know Sydney is going for a team competition prior to AO so obviously Masters talk right now in Australia isn't realistic.

So these are logistical changes that could be made:

Brisbane upgrade to 500
Queens upgrade to Masters
Halle moved a week back, grass extended 1 week (Wimbledon starts a week later)
Canada moved a week back
Paris dropped to 500
I agree with all of those.
 
#6
Is Brisbane still going to host the tournament ? I thought they were going to host the ATP Cup along with Sydney and Adelaide or another third city :unsure:
 
#7
Is Brisbane still going to host the tournament ? I thought they were going to host the ATP Cup along with Sydney and Adelaide or another third city :unsure:
Thought it was only Hopman Cup that was killed. No 250 tournaments before AO is garbage.
 
#11
As many have brought up, there isn't a Masters preceeding 2 of the Slams. AO doesn't even have a 500 event. Meanwhile you got 2 Masters jammed together before the USO where often top players choose between the two.

Then there's the matter of the grass season as we all know where Halle and Queens play at the same time for 500 level.
I always wanted Indian Wells and Miami to be the warm-up for the Australian Open. In March the Australian summer is still there. Now the "Sunshine Double" is a bit meaningless when it stands alone. If a top player has a really important goal to achieve at the French Open of that year his thoughts will already be at the clay.

Also the grass season needs Masters as we already talked about so often.

My perfect schedule for big events would be as follows:

Indian Wells 1000
Miami 1000
Australian Open
Monte Carlo 1000
Rome 1000
French Open
Halle 1000
Queen’s 1000
Wimbledon
Canada 1000
Cincinnati 1000
US Open
One Indoor Masters 1000 (Maybe in Madrid again since I dont’ have it as a clay Masters anymore)
WTF (Maybe in Shanghai again since that Masters would be gone as well; Turin isn’t necessary for me since we have the Rome Masters)
 
#14
I always wanted Indian Wells and Miami to be the warm-up for the Australian Open. In March the Australian summer is still there. Now the "Sunshine Double" is a bit meaningless when it stands alone. If a top player has a really important goal to achieve at the French Open of that year his thoughts will already be at the clay.

Also the grass season needs Masters as we already talked about so often.

My perfect schedule for big events would be as follows:

Indian Wells 1000
Miami 1000
Australian Open
Monte Carlo 1000
Rome 1000
French Open
Halle 1000
Queen’s 1000
Wimbledon
Canada 1000
Cincinnati 1000
US Open
One Indoor Masters 1000 (Maybe in Madrid again since I dont’ have it as a clay Masters anymore)
WTF (Maybe in Shanghai again since that Masters would be gone as well; Turin isn’t necessary for me since we have the Rome Masters)
Perfect schedule indeed!
 
#19
March:
Indian Wells - 1000
Miami - 1000
AO - slam

April / May:
MC - 1000
Madrid - 1000
Rome - 1000
RG - slam

June / July:
Halle - 1000
Wimby - slam

August / September:
Canada - 1000
Cinci - 1000
USO - slam

October / November:
Shanghai - 1000
WTF
 
#21
Moving back Wimbledon isn't great cause it will fully clash with the biggest annual sports event on TV

Also, stuff like holiday seasons. Grand Slams aren't really moveable on the calendar.

There's absolutely no reason to HAVE a 1000 prior to Wimbledon or 500s prior to Australia.
Agree. Changes suggested by OP have very little chance of happening. You could never overhaul that much of the calendar, causing that much upheaval for that many stakeholders, without showing some sort of large scale benefit. There is no incentive shown here.

It would be interesting to see who pays for the Queens overhaul. That's a great event but the facilities are nowhere near m1000 standard.
 
#22
Impossible to make any change unless it's 2-3 years out to make request to calendar change and make request for Slams to follow. Wimbledon announced the change in 2012 for 2015 so I imagine that it took 3 years for changes to take effect with new grass court tournaments. Work with ITF would be best step to make the calendar smoother. I would also suggest Australian Open move back to early December rather than January. That way, the season would end in December after Australian Open and make their return in late February. That would make Asian/Australian swing in late October/December for the lead up to the final Slam of the year. March is already filled with double sunshine tradition so AO cannot be hosted in March. This is the only logical move I see here. If they decide to host the Australian Open in January, it's too hot to play so if they could play in early December, it's still spring in Southern Hemisphere so it's perfect weather to play in and Holidays just around the corner with final in mid-December. Players would still get their normal off-season for 6-7 weeks and I would move the World Tours final in October and begin the Asia/Australia swing. I'll wait to see how ATP Cup works out for next few seasons before making my judgment on this format.

Other logical step is to move around US Open to early May and Roland Garros in late August/September as big difference of climate, it would be fairly dry in Europe while humidity doesn't take effect until June so May is the perfect time to host USO.

This is just an idea but reality, it's impossible to make a huge changes to the calendar. I would love to see a longer grass court season to 6 weeks of warm-up tournaments and it's like a puzzle, trying to fit in around the Slams. If Australian Open were not a Grand Slam, I would see a GS once every 6 weeks between April to September.
 
#23
So no tennis in January? AO wouldn’t even have half the attendance number if it was moved to March. And it’d struggle to get ballkids and volunteers
 
#33
Because January is our holiday time. Summer school holiday and a lot of people take their leave in that time as well. March everybody is back at work and at school full steam.
I see a lot of flaws in that logic. When I watch AO on TV, I would just take a peek on crowd and majority of them are adults in the main stadium and kids/adults in the smaller stands would be 25/75 whom majority of them are adult anyways. Most adults have jobs and it doesn't affect school holidays and they are still working and find time to attend so I do not think that it will be any different if AO were to change their dates. Also, kids can always show up and attend AO after school as a part of the activity and I also believe that school would provide a field trip to any events in the city. I remember when I was young, the school would take a field trip to a minor league baseball game. So I would imagine that school would take a day of field trip to AO as a part of cultural purpose in tennis. So in other word, you can change the date and still have most people attending regardless. If revenue suffers, they can always change back the dates.
 
#34
Queen's cannot ever be a Masters, it doesn't have the infrastructure or parking. It cannot expand because the buildings around it are protected historical buildings. Not possible.
Monte Carlo doesn't seem to have any issue with this one. It is smaller facility and infrastructure than the rest of other Masters with only 3 courts used for matches with 4th court for doubles matches so therefore, Queens could be the host and people will have no issue of calling it a grass Masters due to historical factor. What's more, Queens used to have a 56 draw of a 250 event and still able to run the event efficiently despite weather being unpredictable factor.
 
#35
I think people need to understand such changes wouldn't happen in one calendar year but probably one change at a time. Why I said 2021-onwards not for 2021.

Queen's cannot ever be a Masters, it doesn't have the infrastructure or parking. It cannot expand because the buildings around it are protected historical buildings. Not possible.
Okay multiple people have pointed this out and I certainly would think Germany having a Masters title again (they once had two!) would be better overall than London having a Masters before their prestige Slam.

So I've flipped them around.

Impossible to make any change unless it's 2-3 years out to make request to calendar change and make request for Slams to follow. Wimbledon announced the change in 2012 for 2015 so I imagine that it took 3 years for changes to take effect with new grass court tournaments. Work with ITF would be best step to make the calendar smoother. I would also suggest Australian Open move back to early December rather than January. That way, the season would end in December after Australian Open and make their return in late February. That would make Asian/Australian swing in late October/December for the lead up to the final Slam of the year. March is already filled with double sunshine tradition so AO cannot be hosted in March. This is the only logical move I see here. If they decide to host the Australian Open in January, it's too hot to play so if they could play in early December, it's still spring in Southern Hemisphere so it's perfect weather to play in and Holidays just around the corner with final in mid-December. Players would still get their normal off-season for 6-7 weeks and I would move the World Tours final in October and begin the Asia/Australia swing. I'll wait to see how ATP Cup works out for next few seasons before making my judgment on this format.

Other logical step is to move around US Open to early May and Roland Garros in late August/September as big difference of climate, it would be fairly dry in Europe while humidity doesn't take effect until June so May is the perfect time to host USO.
I think Australia being moved to last major of the year was only a bad idea because it was late December. So I agree, having the tournament end by the 15th at the latest would make a lot of sense. It wouldn't interfere with people's holiday plans and if anything people would treat it as part of their gift, etc.

Some historical context, the 1971 Australian Open was played in March, it didn't work out too well. From 72-74 it started Dec 26th, 1975-1979 ran through Christmas with 77 having a 2nd Aussie Open in January, 80-81 went back to Dec 26th. Then from 82-85 it was played from late Nov to mid December with 82 being the last weak draw with Kriek after which Wilander and Edberg won the next 3 titles. So I certainly think late November to mid December would work. The question would then be WTF. Nov 19-Dec 3 would allow the WTF to run say Dec 10-16. Course you then have the question of the ATP Cup. I mean, if it's proven legitimate, you could still have it just in February after which you have the rest of the season as you were. Rotterdam, Dubai, Acapulco lead into the Sunshine Double and then clay season.

This also cuts Paris Masters out of the equation, maybe move Basel back so you have Tokyo-Beijing-Shanghai-AO-WTF in that order. Mind you Turin makes it odd.

Because January is our holiday time. Summer school holiday and a lot of people take their leave in that time as well. March everybody is back at work and at school full steam.
I've been to a lot of tennis tournaments. Outside Round 1, maybe 2, putting financial hopes on children being off school is not advisable. Now I haven't been to Australia, but please inform me what the actual numbers are for children affecting the overall financial well being of the tournament? Tennis is a rich sport to begin with so I don't think a parent taking their kids out of school for the day in too big a deal.
 

Mustard

Talk Tennis Guru
#36
I think the post-US Open period needs to mean more in particular. I think back to a year like 1996 when those late year indoor tournaments felt much bigger, and Sampras vs. Becker in the YEC final felt as big as a major final. I also think that the tennis authorities dropped the ball when they u-turned on going back to 16 seeds at the majors this year.
 
#38
I see a lot of flaws in that logic. When I watch AO on TV, I would just take a peek on crowd and majority of them are adults in the main stadium and kids/adults in the smaller stands would be 25/75 whom majority of them are adult anyways. Most adults have jobs and it doesn't affect school holidays and they are still working and find time to attend so I do not think that it will be any different if AO were to change their dates. Also, kids can always show up and attend AO after school as a part of the activity and I also believe that school would provide a field trip to any events in the city. I remember when I was young, the school would take a field trip to a minor league baseball game. So I would imagine that school would take a day of field trip to AO as a part of cultural purpose in tennis. So in other word, you can change the date and still have most people attending regardless. If revenue suffers, they can always change back the dates.
Geez it’s not logic it’s fact ok, as I live here. Adults take holidays in January to spend time with thier kids. Not all of them but many. Half of my work is on holidays in January and every single one of them takes sometime off if not the whole month. I don’t think many will take time off work in March just because AO is going on. Lots lots of young people go to AO as well so January is the perfect time as March they’re back at uni. A lot of kids go to AO as well, they’re just not in the big stadiums for overseas tv broadcast. Not sure about schools taking them there after school as our public schools definitely don’t work after school hours . And how do you take the ball kids out of school? I don’t know how other slams do it when it requires 3 weeks off school

Not gonna happen anyway AO in March. January is our summer of tennis from the first ball is hit in Brisbane and Perth. For tennis fans the entire month is a festival. I’m also taking the month off come 2020 as my daughter is being a ballkid at AO first time!
 
Last edited:
#39
I think the post-US Open period needs to mean more in particular. I think back to a year like 1996 when those late year indoor tournaments felt much bigger, and Sampras vs. Becker in the YEC final felt as big as a major final.
the YEC is actually still great. it's just that for these clowns here the b-o-3 format is too quick.

Sampras-Becker was "pim pam pum". okay, that would have been too quick for a b-o-3 format indeed.
 
Top