The big 3 are so intrinsically connected, it is ever possible to put them in separate tiers?
- Thread starter Hitman
- Start date
nolefam_2024
Bionic Poster
Djokovic is becoming his own tier. Fedal numbers will not grow. And they are already behind a lot.
Sport
G.O.A.T.
Or maybe your insecurity. I only stated facts as well.
itrium84
Hall of Fame
This is pretty good, I approve
Unfortunately for Djokovic AO isn’t quite on level of the other 3 slams. Prime for prime:
Federer 03-12
1 RG
7 W
5 USO
Djokovic 08-16
1 RG
3 W
2 USO
no matter how many challenger level slams he piles up in his mid 30s, he wasn’t quite good enough to dominate the big boy events during his prime years.
GabeT
G.O.A.T.
Give me a minute, I’m calling Tom Brady to let him know the Superbowls he won past 35 don’t count
…
ok, I can hear him laughing in the background
MyFearHand
Professional
It tended to be arguments about H2H with Nadal.
GrandSlam24
Semi-Pro
The figures are already achievable. No question about it. It's all down to the suspensions anyway. But it's funny that he was able to outdo Federer at Roland Garros of all places, because he's simply better there. Why did Federer win over 100 matches in Melbourne? That's somehow incomprehensible.
duaneeo
Legend
And?
MyFearHand
Professional
What?
Subway Tennis
G.O.A.T.
Brian Shaw is awesome. People forget how big he actually is unless they see him beside other people because he is so proportionate. Hard to get that strong and big and still retain such a great structure with the upper body and big calves, too.
Whenever you see Brian alongside other people it really hits home what size he has. Even in photos with other huge men he can dwarf people. And he has refused to sacrifice athleticism or lifelong fitness!
Mike Sams
G.O.A.T.
The guy in my avatar gets way more women!
Mike Sams
G.O.A.T.
Murray stuck around 7 more years past his retirement. He was never the same after 2016.
Mike Sams
G.O.A.T.
I remember he was laying on top of UFC fighter Dustin Poirier on the mats and Dustin couldn't do anything to get him off.
Mike Sams
G.O.A.T.
The thing about sports is that once you're washed up, people move on very quickly to the new young guns at the top. Novak and Rafa retiring won't make any difference to the sport.
Mike Sams
G.O.A.T.
I think the slowing of the surfaces hurt Federer's game. Surface homogenizaion didn't benefit the attackers. It suited the gazelles like Novak and Rafa more.
Mike Sams
G.O.A.T.
Isn't Rod Laver the goat considering he did the calendar slam twice?
nolefam_2024
Bionic Poster
Novak 1
Laver 1a
Laver had many things going for him but so many what ifs. They are co goats
Raz has no such things. He has no pro era open era bs. He has to win more than Nole.
There was nothing he said that was wrong. And there was no reason to correct. Feel free to disagree.
James_Bolt
Rookie
They have defined tennis' Time, Space and Matter.
- On time: past (Federer), present (Nadal), future (Djokovic) when they were all at 20 Slams.
- on matter: gas (Federer), solid (Nadal), liquid (Djokovic).
- on space: length (Federer), width (Nadal), height (Djokovic)
DropWideShot
Rookie
Riiight.
nolefam_2024
Bionic Poster
Wrong
RS
Bionic Poster
Impressive stuff. I don't follow strongman like I used to miss the Brian vs Z rivalry.
Going to get back into it more though. I was enjoying it for a 2nd laps in 2020-2021 but then fell off again.
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messiahrobins
Legend
no question about it. Federer served and volleyed in 2003 when he won W and 2004. Also at the USO there is a reason why Federer won 5 in a row before 2010, and Nadal won 0, then post 2010 Nadal won 4 and Federer 0. The court speed was slower and the bounce higher.
Federer the last ATG brought up with 20th century ideals and technique.
messiahrobins
Legend
Thats true actually. Always been thus, but nowadays with so many platforms etc its even more pronounced.
GoatNo1
Hall of Fame
nole has outclaset other two so he is on his own tier. fed and rafa is pretty close to each other.
weeks: nole>fed>rafa
YE#1: nole>fed=rafa
slams: nole>rafa>fed
WTF: nole>fed>rafa
OG: nole>rafa>fed
masters: nole>rafa>fed
big titles: nole>rafa>fed
all titles: fed>nole>rafa
highest ATP points: nole>fed>rafa
W%: nole>rafa>fed
CGS: nole>rafa>fed
GM: nole>rafa+fed=0
h2h: nole>rafa>fed
nole slam> no rafa pr fed slam
weeks: nole>fed>rafa
YE#1: nole>fed=rafa
slams: nole>rafa>fed
WTF: nole>fed>rafa
OG: nole>rafa>fed
masters: nole>rafa>fed
big titles: nole>rafa>fed
all titles: fed>nole>rafa
highest ATP points: nole>fed>rafa
W%: nole>rafa>fed
CGS: nole>rafa>fed
GM: nole>rafa+fed=0
h2h: nole>rafa>fed
nole slam> no rafa pr fed slam
GoatNo1
Hall of Fame
slams are not all in tennis
nole is already in his own tier
Not true. The argument against Fed's "GOATHOOD" (TM AprilFool) was that Laver was the GOAT, and Fed could not be GOAT with negative h2h with Rafa.
Lleytonstation
Talk Tennis Guru
They will always be linked together no matter what. They will always be the big3.
However, as time goes on, they will separate them more. Some for bias reasons, some for age related, but separated.
Fed started winning slams in 03 and dominated before Djoker was even close to being Djoker. You can separate that, and I believe as time goes, they will slowly separate those.
I see more of a Fed was first, then Rafa, and then Djoker. Each one slightly passed the other guy will be the narrative.
All that said, if Djoker wins another slam or two, they will still be the big 3 and always linked... but Djoker will be in a tier of his own as far as accomplishments go.
Mike Sams
G.O.A.T.
I don't think Slam count matters much. I remember in 2005, people were claiming Federer as the goat despite being considerably behind Sampras in the slam count and being behind Laver. They just enjoyed Federer's style and dominance more than the records and numbers. Alcaraz reaching 17-18 would probably be enough for the newer fans who never took an interest in Djokovic. They'll probably call Djokovic a guy who vultured numerous majors when no new generation of stars were emerging.
MichaelNadal
Bionic Poster
nolefam_2024
Bionic Poster
This is all agenda
Djokovic_is_the_best#1
Bionic Poster
Rafael Nadal says Novak Djokovic is the best tennis player ‘in history’ | CNN
Rafael Nadal believes long-time rival Novak Djokovic is the greatest tennis player of all time and says “there is nothing to discuss” about the sport’s GOAT debate.
amp.cnn.com
RaulRamirez
Legend
Nobody tubed in for Charlie!
RaulRamirez
Legend
I never know how things will be looked at down the road, so I only want to be consistent with my own standards.
Within the (all) Open Era, even though there have been quite a few great players, I think that each of the Big 3, along with Borg and Sampras are all, roughly, at the same general level. Extra special.
Based on their career accomplishments, though -- and how their careers largely coincided -- I think that Djokovic, Nadal and Federer have their own tier, leaving both Pete and Bjorn behind. I think the Big 3 will likely always be thought of together, although Novak may...may.,..be close to being on his own tier.
Within the (all) Open Era, even though there have been quite a few great players, I think that each of the Big 3, along with Borg and Sampras are all, roughly, at the same general level. Extra special.
Based on their career accomplishments, though -- and how their careers largely coincided -- I think that Djokovic, Nadal and Federer have their own tier, leaving both Pete and Bjorn behind. I think the Big 3 will likely always be thought of together, although Novak may...may.,..be close to being on his own tier.
RS
Bionic Poster
After this went back and watched the old competitions lol.
GoatNo1
Hall of Fame
Djokovic is in a separate tier by achievements
true
Federer is in a separate tier for endorsements, class, style and substance and as tennis icon
it is subjective and "love means nothing in tennis"!
Nadal is in a separate tier when it comes to big matches
not true
nole has much much much more top5 and top10 wins. much more big titles. is greater at slams, WTFs, OG, masters and all titles won. if rafa was better than nole in big matches it should be impossible! rafa is better on clay and in big matches on clay and that is pretty much it!
nole has 69.2% wins vs top10 and rafa 63,9%
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nolefam_2024
Bionic Poster
Endorsements, popularity are not subjective and are measured quantitatively . The style and substance result in popularity and being a tennis icon reflects in endorsements
Nadal - Djokovic 11-7 in big matches and something asinine when you compare big 4 matches
What absolute nonsense this is. “Love means nothing in tennis” why even watch the sport then? Just support whoever wins? Said like a true fanatic.
GoatNo1
Hall of Fame
as i said love means nothing in tennis, as in 0-30.
and as said for rafa, only on CC. 11-7 and 10 matches on CC. he is 3-5 outside of clay. and it is plenty of importance matches outside of clay. nole leads 15-13 in finals and 11-4 outside of clay in finals.
nole won much more big matches than rafa, that's why he has more slams, WTFs, masters, big titles and titles than rafa. nole has 258 top10 wins which is whole 39% more than rafa who has only 186.
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I don’t know what you are talking of love. Style, substance. Endorsements , being icon and popularity are tangible measures
Same with Nadal Djokovic h2h. In the bigger matches between heavy weights , Nadal is the daddy of everyone
glory hunter!
GoatNo1
Hall of Fame
yes, nadal wins ALL big matches BUT have 13 big titles less than nole, negativ h2h, never won WTF, miami and paris. never had his own era. has less than a half of weeks as no1. much lesser YE#1. has much lesser top5 and top10 wins and much lesser W% vs top5 and top10 players and lesser W% overall.
GoatNo1
Hall of Fame
i was nole fan since 2006
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