The Big 3 of Grass--put them in order

What is the pecking order on grass?

  • Sampras-Djokovic-Federer

  • Sampras-Federer-Djokovic

  • Djokovic-Sampras-Federer

  • Djokovic-Federer-Sampras

  • Federer-Sampras-Djokovic

  • Federer-Djokovic-Sampras

Results are only viewable after voting.
Rosstour

Rosstour

Talk Tennis Guru
Simple. Pick your personal ranking order of who the best modern grass player is.

Not about trophies, just about level/eye test etc.
 
Federer is greater than Djokovic and then Sampras. Now if you out Djokovic in 90s of course he would lose more just like Pete in 2010s.
 
Tricky to compare Fed and Pete as they played in fundamentally different grass court eras. However, I am equally impressed by their peak levels, and both maintained incredible consistency during their primes. I give it to Fed ultimately because he showed much greater longevity on the surface, all else being roughly equal. At the age Pete had his final loss to Bastl in Wimbledon 2002, Fed won Wimbledon 2012 against younger, skilled grass court players in Djokovic and Murray, and he made several deep runs even after that, in 2014, 2015, 2017, 2019, and even the injury-addled runs in 2016, 2018, and 2021 where he still made QF+ (though tbf competition wasn’t great for those last three).

Djokovic is a great grass court player, but I don’t think he was ever built for the surface in the same way that Pete and Fed were. I’m not as impressed by his best performances as I am by the best performances of Pete and Fed. I think the 2015 final is his best grass court match, but even that is a couple notches below the 2003 and 2005 SF+F matches from Fed, or the 1995 and 1999 Wimbledon finals from Sampras. While Djokovic has had greater longevity than Pete on the surface (not quite up there with Fed just yet, but we’ll see how this Wimbledon goes), I don’t think he had the same consistency or peak level as Sampras or Fed, and so he’s a clear third in this ranking IMO.
 
Rosstour said:
Nadal not on the list. One win over Fed does not make a grass GOAT

Djoko has been pretty fortunate. Even Federer said that modern players don't know how to play on grass.
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Nadal is not on the list but Federer is. And VB and you are obviously going to gang up. That's why this type of polling is completely obvious. No sense.
 
Hitman said:
It is indeed, you think Nadal is getting 14 RG titles in the 70s with a wooden racket, and peak Borg around, not to mention not having the same resources to help with his knees?

Of course not.
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This has a whole lot to do with Novak being a year older like your bestie just said :D next!
 
MichaelNadal said:
This has a whole lot to do with Novak being a year older like your bestie just said :D next!
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Nope, I am agreeing with your statement it is about timing, just don't think that is only valid for Djokovic.

Federer's Wimbledon numbers take a hit if he plays Sampras in the 90s also.
 
Rosstour said:
But the only data point we have is a Federer win
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I said in the 90s. :)

Or do you feel Federer's 8 titles will remain 8 if he was playing in the 90s?

Timing is everything, which is why I always say, you cannot compare eras and there cannot be a GOAT.
 
Hitman said:
I said in the 90s. :)

Or do you feel Federer's 8 titles will remain 8 if he was playing in the 90s?

Timing is everything, which is why I always say, you cannot compare eras and there cannot be a GOAT.
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Not sure how many he gets, but I know it's folly to assume PETE would have definitely stopped him.
 
Rosstour said:
Not sure how many he gets, but I know it's folly to assume PETE would have definitely stopped him.
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But the reverse is also true. Its a folly to assume Federer definitely would have stopped him in the 90s, when he went 7-0 in finals.
 
It just kills so many here to realize that Novak is in the mix as one of the greatest at Wimbledon

As for the question I’d say Fed remains on top and Sampras/Novak is hard to compare due to different eras, courts and tech. Can we say they are tied, just like the Wimby 19 final? :unsure:
 
GabeT said:
It just kills so many here to realize that Novak is in the mix as one of the greatest at Wimbledon

As for the question I’d say Fed remains on top and Sampras/Novak is hard to compare due to different eras, courts and tech. Can we say they are tied, just like the Wimby 19 final? :unsure:
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Why tied. Djokovic has 3 extra finals and his 2020 was great run 26-0 start but wimby was cancelled.
 
GabeT said:
It just kills so many here to realize that Novak is in the mix as one of the greatest at Wimbledon

As for the question I’d say Fed remains on top and Sampras/Novak is hard to compare due to different eras, courts and tech. Can we say they are tied, just like the Wimby 19 final? :unsure:
Click to expand...

Overall Djokovic is ahead of Sampras, ten finals in total.

But yes, it hurts many that Djokovic is up there with Federer and Sampras as GOATs of Wimbledon. But with 7 titles, he cannot be denied.
 
nolefam_2024 said:
Why tied. Djokovic has 3 extra finals and his 2020 was great run 26-0 start but wimby was cancelled.
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I’m incorporating the fact that Sampras was unequivocally the best of his peers at Wimby while Novak sort of shared the title. But one can also make the argument that Novak is ahead for the reasons you mention
 
GabeT said:
I’m incorporating the fact that Sampras was unequivocally the best of his peers at Wimby while Novak sort of shared the title. But one can also make the argument that Novak is ahead for the reasons you mention
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He was best for shorter duration.
 
Hitman said:
But the reverse is also true. Its a folly to assume Federer definitely would have stopped him in the 90s, when he went 7-0 in finals.
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I understand. But it's IMO less unreasonable to think that way, since Fed won the only meeting, and did so while he was still just "Roger Federer"
 
The_Order said:
Djok struggled with 33+ yr old Federer whilst at the peak of his grass powers...

Therefore, in a prime for prime battle... Petros would slap Djok.
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Federer was 32 when Novak beat him in the final. 32 is not old for a modern top athlete.
 
GabeT said:
Federer was 32 when Novak beat him in the final. 32 is not old for a modern top athlete.
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On aggregate, it's outside prime though, unless you're a huge outlier like Ferrer. Not absolutely ancient like it would have been in the 00's and 90's, but really not all that close to prime either. Fed's return, movement, and groundies were pretty mediocre in that match. It's a wonder he pushed it to five.
 
Third Serve said:
On aggregate, it's outside prime though, unless you're a huge outlier like Ferrer. Not ancient, but really not all that close to prime either. Fed's return, movement, and groundies were pretty mediocre in that match. It's a wonder he pushed it to five.
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I’m not trying to relitigate the 2014 W results. I’m just pointing out that Fed was not “old” at that time.
 
Rosstour said:
Simple. Pick your personal ranking order of who the best modern grass player is.

Not about trophies, just about level/eye test etc.
Click to expand...

I don't think there should be a big 3 here. It's Federer and Sampras by miles. And probably the only guy who has a real chance at winning is Nadal at his very best like in 2008 though he wouldn't be likely to do that often.

Djokovic is a super solid player who would not have been winning Wimbledon with those guys at their best.
 
Fascinating to read some of the replies here. This whole debate, by definition, is completely hypothetical and untestable. And of course not everyone will agree. But several posts go as far as claiming that anyone who disagrees with them simply doesn’t know anything about tennis :X3: :X3:

Some type of Dunning Kruger?
 
Erm, what is Djokovic doing in this group? It's between Federer, Sampras and Borg, three guys who became Wimbledon champions and refused to let go.

Pete was the guy with the most titles, Borg was the guy with titles in a row, and then Federer equalled both of their greatest achievements and went on to win another, and he did it across 3 eras; his era, Djokovic's era, and then again during the next gen era only they were so poor they couldn't take advantage of an 18 month opportunity that was presented to them on a plate.

Sampras and Federer both had to beat slam champions and consistent finalists their own age or younger, Djokovic either had past gen oldies or a conveyerbelt of hopeless weak minded youngsters, and the moment he faced a youngster who wasn't afraid of winning he lost two finals in a row against him.

Next!
 
Let me tell a very uncomfortable truth : Novak at his absolute best has more than a secure serve game, backed by both a very very good serve and amazing baseline strength and then he has a return that works on the modern grass so well. Add a them together and Novak is just a formidable opponent on the modern grass courts.

There is a reason he beat Federer 3 times and that too in a row. A reason why he beat Nadal twice.

In my extremely controversial opinion he is as almost as good as Federer on the surface when he is at his absolute best like the 2015 Final.

I put Federer above because of the fact that free flowing Federer will get way too many free points on serve and Fraud always came up on top when it came to boom bap rallies between the two on fast surfaces.

But by only a hair and it can go Djokovic 's way because he is easily the tougher guy mentally.

As far as Petros he may as well be better than both or worse, it all depends how we want to account for the fact that he played in a completely separate era.
 
Last edited:
ForehandCross said:
There is a reason he beat Federer 3 times and that too in a row. A reason why he beat Nadal twice.
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He's 6 years younger than Federer and Nadal has about 1000 years more mileage on his knees.

Could've saved yourself some time there.

If he's as good as Federer on grass than he doesn't lose to a nearly 31 year old Federer in 4 sets in 2012, or lose two finals in straight sets, simple as.
 
I am sorry, Novak is the Greatest of all time. And he is just a single title away from Federer's count. Let's not pretend he is a noob on the grass. He is atleast of the same tier as the other two.
 
ForehandCross said:
Let me tell a very uncomfortable truth : Novak at his absolute best has more than a secure serve game, backed by both a very very good serve and amazing baseline strength and then he has a return that works on the modern grass so well. Add a them together and Novak is just a formidable opponent on the modern grass courts.

There is a reason he beat Federer 3 times and that too in a row. A reason why he beat Nadal twice.

In my extremely controversial opinion he is as almost as good as Federer on the surface when he is at his absolute best like the 2015 Final.

I put Federer above because of the fact that free flowing Federer will get way too many free points on serve and Fraud always came up on top when it came to boom bap rallies between the two on fast surfaces.

But by only a hair and it can go Djokovic 's way because he is easily the tougher guy mentally.

As far as Petros he may as well be better than both or worse, it all depends how we want to account for the fact that he played in a completely separate era.
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Easier to be mentally stronger when you have the age advantage.
 
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