The Big 3 - who was better age for age?

Druss said:
This is a comparison of level of play between the Big 3 age for age.

18/19y: 1) 2005 Nadal 2) 2006 Djokovic 3) 2000 Federer - Nadal alongside Borg and Becker, one of the top 3 teenage prodigies of the Open Era. He's miles ahead.

19/20y: 1) 2006 Nadal 2) 2007 Djokovic 3) 2001 Federer - Nadal better than Djoko on clay and grass, Djoko better on HC. Fed a late bloomer, still somewhat behind.

20/21y: 1) 2007 Nadal 2) 2008 Djokovic 3) 2002 Federer - Nadal edges Djoker thanks to his prowess on grass. Fed still trails a fair bit.

21/22y: 1) 2008 Nadal 2) 2003 Federer 3) 2009 Djokovic - Nadal peaking on all 3 surfaces clearly in front. Federer enters prime.

22/23y: 1) 2004 Federer 2) 2009 Nadal 3) 2010 Djokovic - Federer clearly ahead here, Djokovic clearly third.

23/24y: 1) 2011 Djokovic 2) 2005 Federer 3) 2010 Nadal - This was not an easy one and I'm sure it will spark controversy! All 3 very similar level, certainly debatable.

24/25y: 1) 2006 Federer 2) 2012 Djokovic 3) 2011 Nadal - FedExpress in the peak of his powers, not debatable. Djoker edges Nadal for second.

25/26y: 1) 2007 Federer 2) 2013 Djokovic 3) 2012 Nadal - Federer clearly ahead, Nadal clearly third.

26/27y: 1) 2013 Nadal 2) 2014 Djokovic 3) 2008 Federer - Not much separating them, but pretty straightforward nonetheless.

27/28y: 1) 2015 Djokovic 2) 2009 Federer 3) 2014 Nadal - Only a 'blind' Fedfan would argue this one. Nadal a distant third.

28/29y: 1) 2016 Djokovic 2) 2010 Federer 3) 2015 Nadal - Nadal in one of his worst spells, Fed in a slump, Djoker takes this, not debatable.

29/30y: 1) 2011 Federer 2) 2016 Nadal 3) 2017 Djokovic - Weird one, none of the Big 3 wins a major. Fed's sheer consistency and deep runs definitely takes this.

30/31y: 1) 2012 Federer 2) 2018 Djokovic 3) 2017 Nadal - The toughest one yet! Extremely close between all 3 and definitely debatable.

Do you agree or disagree? Discuss.
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2011 Djoko ~ 2005 fed. tough to split. I'd take 2005 fed by a bit.

2017 Nadal over 2018 djoko clearly IMO.
Nadal had good tournaments ranging from AO to Shanghai. Djokovic only from Queens to YEC.
2017 RG Nadal >> 2018 Wim Djokovic
2018 USO Djokovic > 2017 USO Nadal (by a much lesser margin)
Nadal was in pretty good form at the AO and made the final.
Djokovic was in great form at the YEC, but level fell big time in the final
Djokovic's Shanghai form was better than Nadal's Madrid or Rome form, but Cincy form was much worse than either.
Djokovic made Paris final, Nadal made Miami+Shanghai final.

Nadal also won 2 other tournaments playing pretty well - Beijing and Barcelona.
 
Night Slasher said:
And the sky is blue.
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giphy.gif

Not always. :cool:
 
BeatlesFan said:
Technically true because Andre retired at age 36 and Fed didn’t have an opportunity to play him when Andre was 36. Otherwise the comment is laughable BS. Fed beat Agassi 8 times in a row, from 2003 on. :whistle:
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He met him in only 1 slam final or semifinal.

It was not a real rivalry. Agassi was ranked outside top5 in 2004-05, way past his prime.

Federer met ATGs consistently only when Big4 appeared.
 
True Fanerer said:
Not if you categorize it.

Masters - Djokovic
WTF - Federer
Titles - Federer

2-1 Federer
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5 masters and Golden Masters easily make up for 1 YEC and minor titles.

I made a poll, everyone agrees Djokovic is ahead outside slams.
 
Lew said:
5 masters and Golden Masters easily make up for 1 YEC and minor titles.

I made a poll, everyone agrees Djokovic is ahead outside slams.
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Yeah that was before he got beat by Next gen twice in a row. It's closer than you think. Of course Djokovic has time on his side. Also, it's kind of dumb to say that Djokovic is suddenly ahead because he won a title in Cincy for the first time that Federer has won seven times.
 
True Fanerer said:
Yeah that was before he got beat by Next gen twice in a row. It's closer than you think. Of course Djokovic has time on his side. Also, it's kind of dumb to say that Djokovic is suddenly ahead because he won a title in Cincy for the first time that Federer has won seven times.
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Not because of Cincy alone, but because of all 9, especially Rome and MonteCarlo ;)

And he won 8 of them twice o_O
 
Lew said:
He met him in only 1 slam final or semifinal.

It was not a real rivalry. Agassi was ranked outside top5 in 2004-05, way past his prime.

Federer met ATGs consistently only when Big4 appeared.
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Agassi in 04-05 at HC majors was same level as 2014-2016 Fed in those slam matches. Regardless of whether that Fed was ranked higher or more consistent.
 
KINGROGER said:
Agassi in 04-05 at HC majors was same level as 2014-2016 Fed in those slam matches. Regardless of whether that Fed was ranked higher or more consistent.
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Regardless of objectivity then.

Wins over top-10

2004-05 Agassi: 8
2014-15 Federer: 32
 
Druss said:
This is a comparison of level of play between the Big 3 age for age.

18/19y: 1) 2005 Nadal 2) 2006 Djokovic 3) 2000 Federer - Nadal alongside Borg and Becker, one of the top 3 teenage prodigies of the Open Era. He's miles ahead.

19/20y: 1) 2006 Nadal 2) 2007 Djokovic 3) 2001 Federer - Nadal better than Djoko on clay and grass, Djoko better on HC. Fed a late bloomer, still somewhat behind.

20/21y: 1) 2007 Nadal 2) 2008 Djokovic 3) 2002 Federer - Nadal edges Djoker thanks to his prowess on grass. Fed still trails a fair bit.

21/22y: 1) 2008 Nadal 2) 2003 Federer 3) 2009 Djokovic - Nadal peaking on all 3 surfaces clearly in front. Federer enters prime.

22/23y: 1) 2004 Federer 2) 2009 Nadal 3) 2010 Djokovic - Federer clearly ahead here, Djokovic clearly third.

23/24y: 1) 2011 Djokovic 2) 2005 Federer 3) 2010 Nadal - This was not an easy one and I'm sure it will spark controversy! All 3 very similar level, certainly debatable.

24/25y: 1) 2006 Federer 2) 2012 Djokovic 3) 2011 Nadal - FedExpress in the peak of his powers, not debatable. Djoker edges Nadal for second.

25/26y: 1) 2007 Federer 2) 2013 Djokovic 3) 2012 Nadal - Federer clearly ahead, Nadal clearly third.

26/27y: 1) 2013 Nadal 2) 2014 Djokovic 3) 2008 Federer - Not much separating them, but pretty straightforward nonetheless.

27/28y: 1) 2015 Djokovic 2) 2009 Federer 3) 2014 Nadal - Only a 'blind' Fedfan would argue this one. Nadal a distant third.

28/29y: 1) 2016 Djokovic 2) 2010 Federer 3) 2015 Nadal - Nadal in one of his worst spells, Fed in a slump, Djoker takes this, not debatable.

29/30y: 1) 2011 Federer 2) 2016 Nadal 3) 2017 Djokovic - Weird one, none of the Big 3 wins a major. Fed's sheer consistency and deep runs definitely takes this.

30/31y: 1) 2012 Federer 2) 2018 Djokovic 3) 2017 Nadal - The toughest one yet! Extremely close between all 3 and definitely debatable.
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We're counting 30-31, which means USO 2011-WMB 2012. That does include a WTF victory, SF or better at all Slams and 3 Masters for Fed. Novak will undoubtedly win age 31-32 year and then we'll see but pretty hard besting Fed age 33-37.
 
Jonas78 said:
Sure, very good but not peak. Which isnt enough to beat peak-Djokovic.
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2015 was peak Djokovic. It was Peak servovic. Just like how 2015 was Peakserverer.

mike danny said:
Your patience if off the charts. ;) I admire you for still debating with that guy who is a lost cause.

I put him on ignore a long time ago when I saw what type of poster he is ;)
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Putting someone on ignore who doesn’t insult people and just posts stats? Just cause you disagree with him?

ok
mike danny said:
2011erer was more than a match for 2011ovic. So why not 2005erer?
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4-1. Having MPs and fluking away a win doesn’t change that
 
True Fanerer said:
Come on now. He won a slam and was in three slam finals total with three masters and a WTF. Finished #1. He was also in eleven finals.

GET REAL
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Nope :). Return declined heavily and serve only marginally improved. Proven by stats 2012 was not Peak Djokovic on ground game and wasn’t even close too Peakservovic
 
BGod said:
We're counting 30-31, which means USO 2011-WMB 2012. That does include a WTF victory, SF or better at all Slams and 3 Masters for Fed. Novak will undoubtedly win age 31-32 year and then we'll see but pretty hard besting Fed age 33-37.
Click to expand...

For the sake of consistency, we’re looking at the season/year were they all turned that particular age. They more or less went from 30-31 mid-way through the seasons 2012, 2017 & 2018.
 
Lew said:
Regardless of objectivity then.

Wins over top-10

2004-05 Agassi: 8
2014-15 Federer: 32
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Fed being ranked higher or beating more top 10 players doesn’t mean he brought a higher level to those finals vs Djokovic. When it came down to it, he played at 04 Wimbledon/06 USO Roddick level or 05 USO Agassi.
 
True Fanerer said:
Good luck finding a reasonable fan of any player that agrees with you.
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You didn't answer my question :)

Djokovic just got worse in 2012. If he played as he did in 2011, he would have sweeped all the slams legitimately
 
BrokenGears said:
2015 was peak Djokovic. It was Peak servovic. Just like how 2015 was Peakserverer.



Putting someone on ignore who doesn’t insult people and just posts stats? Just cause you disagree with him?

ok


4-1. Having MPs and fluking away a win doesn’t change that
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There is no stat, nor the eye test, that support 2015 was peak-Federer.
 
BrokenGears said:
2012 was a prime year. You should know the difference between Peak and Prime



He lost in 2015 and 2011 which were his peak years so I'm not sure what you're trying too say?
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Im trying to say that most fans usually define a players peak when he won the most. Many are not that generous to other players.
 
BrokenGears said:
2012 was a prime year. You should know the difference between Peak and Prime



He lost in 2015 and 2011 which were his peak years so I'm not sure what you're trying too say?
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I thought you said you weren't a troll. Stop making excuses for Peak Djokovic losing to old man Federer. Pitiful
 
True Fanerer said:
I thought you said you weren't a troll. Stop making excuses for Peak Djokovic losing to old man Federer. Pitiful
Click to expand...

You aren't really giving me any arguments. Do you know the difference between Peak and Prime?

On that note, Youngovic beat Peakerer in 2007, does that mean Youngovic is better than Peakerer
 
BrokenGears said:
2015 was peak Djokovic. It was Peak servovic. Just like how 2015 was Peakserverer.



Putting someone on ignore who doesn’t insult people and just posts stats? Just cause you disagree with him?

ok


4-1. Having MPs and fluking away a win doesn’t change that
Click to expand...
LOL that guy is one of the biggest cherry-pickers on here. Everyone knows that and now you come in here to tell me he is reasonable? No one says I feel obligated to listen to his cherry-picking nonsense, so why bother?

As for 2011, those MPs were relevant in that it showed that 2011erer was this close to beating 2011 Djokovic twice in slams, something not even 2011 Nadal came close to doing. And if that Fed caused Djokovic that much trouble, then 2005 Federer would do even better.
 
BrokenGears said:
You aren't really giving me any arguments. Do you know the difference between Peak and Prime?

On that note, Youngovic beat Peakerer in 2007, does that mean Youngovic is better than Peakerer
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I'm not going to argue with someone who wants to be silly. 2011 and 2015 were his very best years. It doesn't mean 2012 wasn't a peak a year. He simply choked more on big points. He made eleven finals in one of the strongest years ever. That's peak play buddy.

4 main return stats avg %

2011 - 43.95
2012 - 42.4
+1.55

5 main serve stats avg %

2011 - 69.82
2012 - 70.14
-0.32

BPW%

2011 - 48.3
2012 - 46.7
 
mike danny said:
LOL that guy is one of the biggest cherry-pickers on here. Everyone knows that and now you come in here to tell me he is reasonable? No one says I feel obligated to listen to his cherry-picking nonsense, so why bother?

As for 2011, those MPs were relevant in that it showed that 2011erer was this close to beating 2011 Djokovic twice in slams, something not even 2011 Nadal came close to doing. And if that Fed caused Djokovic that much trouble, then 2005 Federer would do even better.
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The only reason one should ignore someone if somebody is insulting, being rude, etcetera. Not because of this ridiculous reason of cherrypicking. Everyone cherrypicks. It's impossible to list every stat out there unless you have infinite time.

He gives stats. You can disagree with them

2007 Federer lost to Youngovic, this means that 2011 Djokovic would do better against Peakerer. It goes both ways
 
BrokenGears said:
The only reason one should ignore someone if somebody is insulting, being rude, etcetera. Not because of this ridiculous reason of cherrypicking. Everyone cherrypicks. It's impossible to list every stat out there unless you have infinite time.

He gives stats. You can disagree with them

2007 Federer lost to Youngovic, this means that 2011 Djokovic would do better against Peakerer. It goes both ways
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True, but youngovic was nowhere near as close to beating peakerer in 1 slam as much as 2011erer was to beating peakovic in 2 slams.
 
True Fanerer said:
I'm not going to argue with someone who wants to be silly. 2011 and 2015 were his very best years. It doesn't mean 2012 wasn't a peak a year. He simply choked more on big points. He made eleven finals in one of the strongest years ever. That's peak play buddy.

4 main return stats avg %

2011 - 43.95
2012 - 42.4
+1.55

5 main serve stats avg %

2011 - 69.82
2012 - 70.14
-0.32

BPW%

2011 - 48.3
2012 - 46.7
Click to expand...

No, that's peak consistency buddy. You literally showed me stats proving my notion and there are several more

2012 Federer made 10 finals, does that make him Peak?
 
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