The Cult of PT57

[Dakota60]

Who was aware that this Pt57a paintjob existed even the cap grommets are painted here

Fifth-seeded Austrian Thomas Muster grimaces 30 May during his French...

Fifth-seeded Austrian Thomas Muster grimaces 30 May during his French Open third round upset defeat to Brazilian Gustavo Kuerten. Kuerten won 6-7 , 6-1, 6-3, 3-6, 6-4.

www.gettyimages.de

Austrian Thomas Muster.

Austrian Thomas Muster.

www.gettyimages.de

Austria's Thomas Muster lines up a forehand 29 May to Christophe Van...

Austria's Thomas Muster lines up a forehand 29 May to Christophe Van Garsse from Belgium during their match in the third round of the French Open in Paris. Muster, who had compared himself to old...

www.gettyimages.de

Maybe this set a precedent to prevent players from being sponsored by other brands while using another's racquet underneath the new paintjob. Safin infamously didn't get away with it with Dunlop when using the PC600 underneath the Muscleweave 200G 90.

Or was there a lawsuit on Muster about this back then?

 

[vsbabolat]

Who was aware that this Pt57a paintjob existed even the cap grommets are painted here

Fifth-seeded Austrian Thomas Muster grimaces 30 May during his French...

Fifth-seeded Austrian Thomas Muster grimaces 30 May during his French Open third round upset defeat to Brazilian Gustavo Kuerten. Kuerten won 6-7 , 6-1, 6-3, 3-6, 6-4.

www.gettyimages.de

Austrian Thomas Muster.

Austrian Thomas Muster.

www.gettyimages.de

Austria's Thomas Muster lines up a forehand 29 May to Christophe Van...

Austria's Thomas Muster lines up a forehand 29 May to Christophe Van Garsse from Belgium during their match in the third round of the French Open in Paris. Muster, who had compared himself to old...

www.gettyimages.de

Good catch.

 

[Slodge630]

Maybe this set a precedent to prevent players from being sponsored by other brands while using another's racquet underneath the new paintjob. Safin infamously didn't get away with it with Dunlop when using the PC600 underneath the Muscleweave 200G 90.

Or was there a lawsuit on Muster about this back then?

no there was no lawsuit. He just switched to kneissl and didn’t want to change the racket. I have two of these kneissl painted pt57a4 rackets. They weight 410g strung and have ra of 68. on one pic you even see the blue head pro tour paint between the pallets

https://imgur.com/n44AC84

https://imgur.com/fnsAD0M

https://imgur.com/sy7fNT7

https://imgur.com/XQ4RZfS

 

[Dakota60]

no there was no lawsuit. He just switched to kneissl and didn’t want to change the racket. I have two of these kneissl painted pt57a4 rackets. They weight 410g strung and have ra of 68. on one pic you even see the blue head pro tour paint between the pallets

https://imgur.com/n44AC84

https://imgur.com/fnsAD0M

https://imgur.com/sy7fNT7

https://imgur.com/XQ4RZfS

mm, nice and whippy that is... ..

 

[Slodge630]

I am about to complete my collection of all ever available pt57a pro stock paintjobs. I have around 35 sticks. The only pj that is missing is premier tour.
please let me know if anyone has one and wants to sell !

 

[Seth]

I am about to complete my collection of all ever available pt57a pro stock paintjobs. I have around 35 sticks. The only pj that is missing is premier tour.
please let me know if anyone has one and wants to sell !

Is item 334317395921 on FleaBay what you’re looking for?

 

[Slodge630]

Is item 334317395921 on FleaBay what you’re looking for?

Unfortunately I can’t find this item. Can you send me the link?

 

[dr325i]

I am about to complete my collection of all ever available pt57a pro stock paintjobs. I have around 35 sticks. The only pj that is missing is premier tour.
please let me know if anyone has one and wants to sell !

You have all Andy’s radical PJs?

 

[Slodge630]

You have all Andy’s radical PJs?

The only one I indeed don’t have is the graphene 360+. As likely not many players used it in this pj. If you have one please let me know. Doesn’t have to be used by andy. I have none that were used by Andy cuz I only care about the pj and not the player himself

 

[dr325i]

The only one I indeed don’t have is the graphene 360+. As likely not many players used it in this pj. If you have one please let me know. Doesn’t have to be used by andy. I have none that were used by Andy cuz I only care about the pj and not the player himself

The only player that used the PT57A in radical PJ with Graphene PJ and on was AM. Cuevas may have tried it for a month or so
before that we’ve had Soderling, Grosjean and a few other examples…

 

[Slodge630]

The only player that used the PT57A in radical PJ with Graphene PJ and on was AM. Cuevas may have tried it for a month or so
before that we’ve had Soderling, Grosjean and a few other examples…

That’s what I assumed. I have a candy and a ti radical used by Thomas enqvist. For all others I don’t know the player. I have eg one from 2015 that i bought from pro stock tennis which is 18/20 and hasn’t Andys name printed. I think that is graphene xt. don’t know who used that. Also has no player code

 

[dr325i]

That’s what I assumed. I have a candy and a ti radical used by Thomas enqvist. For all others I don’t know the player. I have eg one from 2015 that i bought from pro stock tennis which is 18/20 and hasn’t Andys name printed. I don’t know who used that. Also has no player code

Graphene, Touch, 360 and 360+ Radical PJ of the PT57A are all AM. I have all of those. There was a batch of Touch PJ in "MP"...not sure if AM ever used it or that was the "wrong PJ", I have one of those with his molded handle and name inside the throat.
Cuevas used the XT Radical PJ for one tournament or so...

Is your frame Touch, all glossy, "Pro" but 18x20?

 

[Slodge630]

Ok interesting to know. I will send you some pictures of the xt later. Maybe it is a cuevas one then…it is xt painted with 18/20 and normal pallets.
That also means I will have to buy some murray rackets

 

[dr325i]

Ok interesting to know. I will send you some pictures of the xt later. Maybe it is a cuevas one then…it is xt painted with 18/20 and normal pallets.
That also means I will have to buy some murray rackets

Remember, Andy used the 18x20 a few times at the RG/clay tournaments and I don’t believe his name was printed on it. There is one of those also on e bay

 

[Slodge630]

Ok cool. Do you have any of the other murray pj for sale? You can also write me an email

 

[Seth]

@dr325i @vsbabolat is Stebe a PT57A man?

 

[vsbabolat]

@dr325i @vsbabolat is Stebe a PT57A man?

I don’t but my guess is 293

 

[Siewi]

How similar is the Pro Staff 97 v13 (not the RF version) to the "new" Pro Tour 2.0? I play with the PS, and I have been thinking of giving the PT2.0 a go. Spec-wise they seem quite similar. Do they also play any similar? I would expect the PT to be more plush (despite the 65 RA) and a bit less powerful than the PS97.

 

[H.G]

How similar is the Pro Staff 97 v13 (not the RF version) to the "new" Pro Tour 2.0? I play with the PS, and I have been thinking of giving the PT2.0 a go. Spec-wise they seem quite similar. Do they also play any similar? I would expect the PT to be more plush (despite the 65 RA) and a bit less powerful than the PS97.

Didn’t really feel like relatives in my family tree of racquet’s.

Try for yourself, the PT 2’s are amazing

 

[oh_ yuzzz]

I've searched google and tried searching this forum to no avail. Is there a pro stock code for the liquidmetal prestige? While that edition was always under the shadow of the i.Prestige / PT57E, I quite like playing with the MP despite an aversion to racquets with 18 mains. It's the only one in the line that used twin-tube a la the Radical series and it's the last edition made outside of China so it's of a novelty IMO.

 

[H.G]

My orgasm racquets….so far… more to come

 

[asifallasleep]

So i just started using the Head iPrestige MP, and it may perhaps be the best frame I've ever used. I had no idea, Am I the only one who believes it has an insane amount of control, power and spin? And i mean the spin i get is unreal. I tried a few tweaks and ended up with just a leather grip which leaves me at 355 grams and 11pts HL.

 

[Classic-TXP-IG MID]

So i just started using the Head iPrestige MP, and it may perhaps be the best frame I've ever used. I had no idea, Am I the only one who believes it has an insane amount of control, power and spin? And i mean the spin i get is unreal. I tried a few tweaks and ended up with just a leather grip which leaves me at 355 grams and 11pts HL.

It's a beast!!!

 

[asifallasleep]

It's a beast!!!

Oh and i can't forget the stability. It's a freakin tank.

 

[H.G]

The two latest gang members

 

[MRfStop]

 

[Arjuntino]

Does anyone play a western grip with their PT57. I know it is typically in a 95 sq inch mold. Any sticks with similar feel that might might be better for a western/topspin game?

 

[PhilSki]

My orgasm racquets….so far… more to come

Great choice!

My efforts;

https://imgur.com/a/vpg7wJy

 

[Hansen]

Does anyone play a western grip with their PT57. I know it is typically in a 95 sq inch mold. Any sticks with similar feel that might might be better for a western/topspin game?

cerundolo. doubt that there are really similar feeling frames out there. some say angell tc97 others say tecnifibre ltd etc. but there is only one original. but to be honest the latest prestige pro (haven‘t used that) and the prestige mp before that (the red one, which i own) are good prestige frames, slightly easier to use and good spin potential

 

[shinminsoo86]

https://imgur.com/FVvrTg3

Newbie gotta mint iPrestige MP grip 2.
TK76 is too small to grab it.

 

[Astonish]

I know the question of A2 vs A3 gets brought up from time to time… but I’m curious if vsbabolat, dr325i, or any of the other resident experts here can shed some light on a specific situation.

If a pro stock PT57A says it’s a PT57A2 on the sticker, but then the hairpin itself has TK57 A-3 engraved in the circle… would you expect it to be an A2, or an A3? This conflicting labelling has come up a few different times from what I’ve seen…

I found some never used, uncustomized, Austrian-made PT57As (flexpoint radical paintjobs, from back when the code was still painted in the throat) that I was looking to buy… however originally I had set out for the PT57A2. These have TK57 A-3 engraved in the hairpin, and now I’m hesitant to pull the trigger. I really wanted as low of an RA as possible, and reading that the A3 can be stiffer than the A2 / retail PT630 makes me feel like it’s not going to be the flexiest option.

Thanks in advance for any thoughts on this

 

[vsbabolat]

I know the question of A2 vs A3 gets brought up from time to time… but I’m curious if vsbabolat, dr325i, or any of the other resident experts here can shed some light on a specific situation.

If a pro stock PT57A says it’s a PT57A2 on the sticker, but then the hairpin itself has TK57 A-3 engraved in the circle… would you expect it to be an A2, or an A3? This conflicting labelling has come up a few different times from what I’ve seen…

I found some never used, uncustomized, Austrian-made PT57As (flexpoint radical paintjobs, from back when the code was still painted in the throat) that I was looking to buy… however originally I had set out for the PT57A2. These have TK57 A-3 engraved in the hairpin, and now I’m hesitant to pull the trigger. I really wanted as low of an RA as possible, and reading that the A3 can be stiffer than the A2 / retail PT630 makes me feel like it’s not going to be the flexiest option.

Thanks in advance for any thoughts on this

The sticker is correct.

 

[Astonish]

The sticker is correct.

Thanks, vs!

What are your thoughts on how this would apply to the Austrian-painted frames, before they did the painting in China? (because if I understand correctly, there were no stickers pre-China, and instead it was just the code painted inside the throat).

So if a flexpoint paintjob had PT57A written in the throat, but TK57 A-3 engraved inside the circle on the hairpin, does that mean it’s for sure a stiffer PT57A3? Or could that be a flexier PT57A2 as well?

 

[vsbabolat]

Thanks, vs!

What are your thoughts on how this would apply to the Austrian-painted frames, before they did the painting in China? (because if I understand correctly, there were no stickers pre-China, and instead it was just the code painted inside the throat).

So if a flexpoint paintjob had PT57A written in the throat, but TK57 A-3 engraved inside the circle on the hairpin, does that mean it’s for sure a stiffer PT57A3? Or could that be a flexier PT57A2 as well?

There were stickers pre-china. Don’t go by what engraved from the mold. It’s just numbering of the mold used to manufacture the racket. Go by the sticker on the hairpin. At the end of Austrian production there were stickers on the hairpin.

 

[ThisHockeyTalk]

Howdy yall. I jumped into your world and grabbed my first PT57xxx off of Pro Stock Tennis. I’m impatiently waiting as I ordered the frame 14 days ago with no concrete idea if when the parcel will arrive from Holland. I’ll post a picture when it arrives.

 

[Astonish]

There were stickers pre-china. Don’t go by what engraved from the mold. It’s just numbering of the mold used to manufacture the racket. Go by the sticker on the hairpin. At the end of Austrian production there were stickers on the hairpin.

Cool, this is all really great info, I appreciate the help!

So if the frames are Flexpoint Radical paintjobs, with no sticker on the hairpin (just the TK57 A-3 engraving that I now know not to pay too much attention to), and then just ‘PT57A’ printed inside the throat… would that mean it’s just a guessing game as to whether it’s an A1, A2, or A3?

 

[vsbabolat]

Cool, this is all really great info, I appreciate the help!

So if the frames are Flexpoint Radical paintjobs, with no sticker on the hairpin (just the TK57 A-3 engraving that I now know not to pay too much attention to), and then just ‘PT57A’ printed inside the throat… would that mean it’s just a guessing game as to whether it’s an A1, A2, or A3?

There should have been some sticker on them at one point. Along thin sticker with the racket code weight, balance, and swing weight as a hairpin. They’re most likely 57A2 as that’s the most popular one. I’m assuming they’re second hand and used?

 

[Astonish]

There should have been some sticker on them at one point. Along thin sticker with the racket code weight, balance, and swing weight as a hairpin. They’re most likely 57A2 as that’s the most popular one. I’m assuming they’re second hand and used?

That’s what I thought too (regarding the sticker) but the seller told me there was no sticker on these hairpins because they’re one of the Austrian-painted ones with the code inside the throat, and sometimes those didn’t come with the sticker. He says they’re new, never used, and uncustomized (28 inches still - which he’s cutting down to 27 for me… no lead anywhere yet… but silicone filled up in the hairpin handle by the Head pro room).

Hopefully they’re legit? I was surprised to see unused frames back from the Flexpoint paintjob days, but they do look legit to me (flexpoint circles are obviously fake-painted, string channel extends past grommets, and TK57 A-3 engraved in that little circle on the hairpin). Then just plain ‘PT57A’ printed in the throat. No idea if they’re A1, A2, A3, real, or not lol.

Thanks again for your thoughts before I finalize payment

Edit: Here are some of the photos I was sent…

99516955-6090-45-C1-8-FF0-B74-D8-F28432-E hosted at ImgBB

Image 99516955-6090-45-C1-8-FF0-B74-D8-F28432-E hosted in ImgBB

ibb.co

6016-B4-CA-671-E-4525-B6-F0-D6-B0-FC9-AB457 hosted at ImgBB

Image 6016-B4-CA-671-E-4525-B6-F0-D6-B0-FC9-AB457 hosted in ImgBB

ibb.co

E10689-E0-49-A5-4-DE3-BF52-CB46-A41-AC458 hosted at ImgBB

Image E10689-E0-49-A5-4-DE3-BF52-CB46-A41-AC458 hosted in ImgBB

ibb.co

F6-C9-EF95-605-F-4283-A9-D1-5-F2-ACBFD37-FF hosted at ImgBB

Image F6-C9-EF95-605-F-4283-A9-D1-5-F2-ACBFD37-FF hosted in ImgBB

ibb.co

B40-A11-E9-942-D-4-AD6-A782-EFD12-B76-CF60 hosted at ImgBB

Image B40-A11-E9-942-D-4-AD6-A782-EFD12-B76-CF60 hosted in ImgBB

ibb.co

 

[vsbabolat]

That’s what I thought too (regarding the sticker) but the seller told me there was no sticker on these hairpins because they’re one of the Austrian-painted ones with the code inside the throat, and sometimes those didn’t come with the sticker. He says they’re new, never used, and uncustomized (28 inches still - which he’s cutting down to 27 for me… no lead anywhere yet… but silicone filled up in the hairpin handle by the Head pro room).

Hopefully they’re legit? I was surprised to see unused frames back from the Flexpoint paintjob days, but they do look legit to me (flexpoint circles are obviously fake-painted, string channel extends past grommets, and TK57 A-3 engraved in that little circle on the hairpin). Then just plain ‘PT57A’ printed in the throat. No idea if they’re A1, A2, A3, real, or not lol.

Thanks again for your thoughts before I finalize payment

They’re real

 

[Astonish]

They’re real

Awesome, thanks so much for the reassurance. I wish I could know for sure that they’re more flexible A2s rather than stiffer A3s, but I guess I just have to roll the dice and hope that after customizing to my spec they don’t feel any stiffer than a retail PT630.

 

[PhilSki]

@Astonish - I asked a similar question earlier in the thread. See post #3,907. There didn’t seem to be a definitive answer, I had come across a Radical Tour Zebra with TK57-A2 and wondered if this was a PT57A.

 

[Astonish]

Silly question… but is there such a thing as a grommet set where the bumper guard extends down to 9 and 3 o’clock, but does not go beyond it like capped grommets?

Going to be using MG Radical MP grommets on my PT57As because I want to avoid the excess weight below 9 and 3 o’clock that comes with caps. Just wasn’t sure if there was such a thing as a “half cap” so to speak, that extends down to 9/3, but not beyond it.

Could obviously trim some capped sets myself, but would prefer to not have to mod them constantly.

Edit: The reason for the pickiness is just because I’d like to run lead all the way down to 9 and 3 ‘clock, but still keep it hidden under the bumper. Radical MP grommets will end short of there, leaving exposed lead.

 

[Classic-TXP-IG MID]

Silly question… but is there such a thing as a grommet set where the bumper guard extends down to 9 and 3 o’clock, but does not go beyond it like capped grommets?

Going to be using MG Radical MP grommets on my PT57As because I want to avoid the excess weight below 9 and 3 o’clock that comes with caps. Just wasn’t sure if there was such a thing as a “half cap” so to speak, that extends down to 9/3, but not beyond it.

Could obviously trim some capped sets myself, but would prefer to not have to mod them constantly.

Edit: The reason for the pickiness is just because I’d like to run lead all the way down to 9 and 3 ‘clock, but still keep it hidden under the bumper. Radical MP grommets will end short of there, leaving exposed lead.

I think what you're looking for are the iPrestige Grommets. They finished shorter than the standard CAPS (kind of tapered off after they reached 3 & 9). Not sure how easy they are to find these days... but if you ask... you shall find.

Hope that helps and is exactly what you're looking for.

 

[PhilSki]

I think what you're looking for are the iPrestige Grommets. They finished shorter than the standard CAPS (kind of tapered off after they reached 3 & 9). Not sure how easy they are to find these days... but if you ask... you shall find.

Hope that helps and is exactly what you're looking for.

Code is TK57A. Just took them off an i.Prestige to replace with TK231.

 

[Astonish]

I think what you're looking for are the iPrestige Grommets. They finished shorter than the standard CAPS (kind of tapered off after they reached 3 & 9). Not sure how easy they are to find these days... but if you ask... you shall find.

Hope that helps and is exactly what you're looking for.

Code is TK57A. Just took them off an i.Prestige to replace with TK231.

Thanks, guys! Taking a look at them, it seems like they inch down towards almost the 5 o’clock / 7 o’clock range, so unfortunately still a bit too much lower hoop weight for my needs. I’ll probably stick to the TK231 grommets with some exposed lead, or experiment with trimming some TK238 grommets instead.

I appreciate both of you for the fast and helpful replies!

 

[Seth]

@vsbabolat how common was the PT280 cosmetic on the doubles tour during the 90s? Got a list of those who used it?

 

[Astonish]

Hey, guys! I had a couple of questions that I was hoping someone might be experienced with:

1.) Is there a reliable method to estimate how far up the hairpin handle is filled with silicone (by the Head Pro Room)? I tried using some wire / a coat hanger to go down through the bottom grommet holes and measure where I hit silicone in the handle, but that method felt pretty unreliable with different measurements each time (probably bumping into different chambers or something). I’m curious to know where the silicone stops in my hairpin handles!

2.) Has anybody had success with removing the silicone from the hairpin entirely? The silicone injected by the Head Pro Room seems very solid and rubbery, and I imagine it would be rather difficult. However if there is anyone that knows how to get 100% of the silicone out cleanly, I’d be interested to hear how you did it!

Thanks in advance for any insight - I really appreciate it

Picture of hairpins + silicone:

34-F9-DD67-204-A-498-E-BFFC-B3-D27-AD6189-A hosted at ImgBB

Image 34-F9-DD67-204-A-498-E-BFFC-B3-D27-AD6189-A hosted in ImgBB

ibb.co

 

[Dakota60]

Hey, guys! I had a couple of questions that I was hoping someone might be experienced with:

1.) Is there a reliable method to estimate how far up the hairpin handle is filled with silicone (by the Head Pro Room)? I tried using some wire / a coat hanger to go down through the bottom grommet holes and measure where I hit silicone in the handle, but that method felt pretty unreliable with different measurements each time (probably bumping into different chambers or something). I’m curious to know where the silicone stops in my hairpin handles!

2.) Has anybody had success with removing the silicone from the hairpin entirely? The silicone injected by the Head Pro Room seems very solid and rubbery, and I imagine it would be rather difficult. However if there is anyone that knows how to get 100% of the silicone out cleanly, I’d be interested to hear how you did it!

Thanks in advance for any insight - I really appreciate it

Picture of hairpins + silicone:

34-F9-DD67-204-A-498-E-BFFC-B3-D27-AD6189-A hosted at ImgBB

Image 34-F9-DD67-204-A-498-E-BFFC-B3-D27-AD6189-A hosted in ImgBB

ibb.co

With the right tools, it'll make the process less tedious than it is but patience and persistence is definitely still required. Some drill through the silicone to disintegrate it but you'd need a fairly long drill bit and exercise care when drilling out the silicone stuck to the chambers' corners or you might damage the hairpin. I prefer the manual method and use a thin utility knife to firstly slice up around the perimeter of the inner chamber to loosen up the silicone from sticking to the insides of the chambers - Makes pulling it out easier. If you're lucky, and there isn't much silicone injected, the whole thing 'can' simply slide out in single piece with a plier. Job done. Also, twist and pull instead of just yanking it out with a plier. Less chances of breakage.

Otherwise, take some time using the same method above with a long flathead screwdriver for the silicone that's stuck deeper inside. Sometimes I heat up the screwdriver with an open flame to loosen up and soften the silicone slightly. What has really helped is clay moulding tools. You can find these at any art supply stores (see pic below). Those with the hooks work well for this purpose and mine can be detached and I simply tape it to the end of the long screw driver to dig it out.

Some finesse and feel is required but don't blindly poke your way inside or you'll push the silicone deeper into the throat area. You'd want to 'carve' and dig/pull it out. Also, using a vacuum cleaner helps as well to suck out loose pieces and to clean out the chambers once you're done.

Also, there isn't a way to find out where the silicone ends. I usually use my phone on video mode with the flash lights on to check if there is any left inside after digging the silicone out. You can zoom in accordingly.

 

[PhilSki]

With the right tools, it'll make the process less tedious than it is but patience and persistence is definitely still required. Some drill through the silicone to disintegrate it but you'd need a fairly long drill bit and exercise care when drilling out the silicone stuck to the chambers' corners or you might damage the hairpin. I prefer the manual method and use a thin utility knife to firstly slice up around the perimeter of the inner chamber to loosen up the silicone from sticking to the insides of the chambers - Makes pulling it out easier. If you're lucky, and there isn't much silicone injected, the whole thing 'can' simply slide out in single piece with a plier. Job done. Also, twist and pull instead of just yanking it out with a plier. Less chances of breakage.

Otherwise, take some time using the same method above with a long flathead screwdriver for the silicone that's stuck deeper inside. Sometimes I heat up the screwdriver with an open flame to loosen up and soften the silicone slightly. What has really helped is clay moulding tools. You can find these at any art supply stores (see pic below). Those with the hooks work well for this purpose and mine can be detached and I simply tape it to the end of the long screw driver to dig it out.

Some finesse and feel is required but don't blindly poke your way inside or you'll push the silicone deeper into the throat area. You'd want to 'carve' and dig/pull it out. Also, using a vacuum cleaner helps as well to suck out loose pieces and to clean out the chambers once you're done.

Also, there isn't a way to find out where the silicone ends. I usually use my phone on video mode with the flash lights on to check if there is any left inside after digging the silicone out. You can zoom in accordingly.

Those tools are one way to make your racket ‘talk’ lol! Definitely from a torture tool kit haha.

 

[Dakota60]

Those tools are one way to make your racket ‘talk’ lol! Definitely from a torture tool kit haha.

Ohh... it has tested my patience on more than one occasion while digging out stubborn silicone stuck deep inside the chambers and deserves every bit of torture from these tools! But it's extremely satisfying once you finally manage to extract the last bit of junk inside there. Check out how much junk was inside this PC600 MIA! Surprisingly as difficult to extract as silicone despite it being foam filled!