The Decline of Proper Cushioning

gino

Hall of Fame
No, but it does have a wealth of information on the stuff available out there for readers to check out and make their own decisions, since everyone's anatomy, preferences, playing style, environments, etc. are different.
agreed - additionally i'd say the answer is somewhere between finding good insoles and good cushion midsole on a shoe
 

bertrevert

Hall of Fame
I reckon it's time to start a new thread: "The Rise of Proper Cushioning - in racquets"

Manufacturers seem to have listened to us and are actually bringing out properly dampened frames, I can use poly in my Clash!

Now we just have to get them to do the same with.... shoes...

They seem to experiment and do a lot with running shoes because that's where the market is, but it doesn't translate over to tennis (no Boost, while good for running, isn't translating well so far to the lateral foot stomp of tennis).
 

David Le

Hall of Fame
React is my favorite midsole cushion, devastated they didnt add it to the vapor knit x
I’m just devastated that they didn’t add it on any tennis shoe yet. I like the React, but I feel that the Joyride is surprisingly more comfortable. The ZoomX with React is by far hella comfortable. So I would go put it in this order: ZoomX React, Joyride, and React.
 

bertrevert

Hall of Fame
yet to hear that the SCB lacks lateral stability.
Probably is just me. Took off my ripped Barras and back on with the SCB. Man they just don't fit my narrow feet. My reactions to Boost may just boil down to being that this shoe... just doesn't fit me. Nothing I can do. They are loose in the forefoot and I can't get heel fit. It almost feels like the sole is separate from the upper in the way they don't work together. The material too loose (on my foot) not lifting the sole in unison. Dunno. Stumped.
 

David Le

Hall of Fame
Wait, y'v tried the joyride, for running, wow, hey what was it like??? Sorry for /threadderail
Yes, I own the OG colorway. Anyway, you may think you’ll “feel” the beads, but you don’t. The feel is slightly hard to explain, but they are like little sponge bubbles that are multiplied. I’d say you will get more feedback when running than walking. I wear them for work, so it’s nice. :)
 

FedGR

Semi-Pro
Hello all, I recently developed some ankle pain which is either plantar fasciitis or achilles tendon sprain that causes a lot of pain in the area. I obviously need to spend some good time off court but also when I go back I need to make sure that I use the right shoe. I absolutely love my Rush Pro 2.5 but I feel I need something more comfortable and cushioned.

After reading most of this thread, I believe the best cushioned tennis shoes are the Nike Zoom Zeros and the Adidas Solecourt Boost as well as the Asics FF. In terms of bball shoes used as tennis shoes, I read the CrazyLight Boost and the Adidas Harden Vol 2 are the best. Are these models up-to-date or is there something that I am missing? Has anyone tried the Hardens vol 3 or vol 4 and are as good as the harder to find vol 2?

At this point cost is not my main concern, protecting my foot is.
 

mctennis

Hall of Fame
Hello all, I recently developed some ankle pain which is either plantar fasciitis or achilles tendon sprain that causes a lot of pain in the area. I obviously need to spend some good time off court but also when I go back I need to make sure that I use the right shoe. I absolutely love my Rush Pro 2.5 but I feel I need something more comfortable and cushioned.

After reading most of this thread, I believe the best cushioned tennis shoes are the Nike Zoom Zeros and the Adidas Solecourt Boost as well as the Asics FF. In terms of bball shoes used as tennis shoes, I read the CrazyLight Boost and the Adidas Harden Vol 2 are the best. Are these models up-to-date or is there something that I am missing? Has anyone tried the Hardens vol 3 or vol 4 and are as good as the harder to find vol 2?

At this point cost is not my main concern, protecting my foot is.
Get tennis shoes for playing tennis. Do not wear shoes for playing other sports. Buy the equipment for playing that particular sport. They are made for that sport for a reason. You have foot problems now, why would you want to take the risk of using another sports shoe to play tennis?
 

FedGR

Semi-Pro
Get tennis shoes for playing tennis. Do not wear shoes for playing other sports. Buy the equipment for playing that particular sport. They are made for that sport for a reason. You have foot problems now, why would you want to take the risk of using another sports shoe to play tennis?
While I see your point and typically agree, I can also see how a shoe designed with similar requirements but extra cushion (due to the jumpy nature of bball) could be beneficial to me. Again, I've been reading that these bball shoes I mentioned in my previous post offer better comfort than any tennis shoe. I haven't tested them so I don't have a personal opinion, that's why I posted here! :)
 
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tomato123

Semi-Pro
While I see your point and typically agree, I can also see how a shoe designed with similar requirements but extra cushion (due to the jumpy nature of bball) could be beneficial to me. Again, I've been reading that these bball shoes I mentioned in my previous post offer better comfort than any tennis shoe. I haven't been tested them so I don't have a personal opinion, that's why I posted here! :)
I used the 2018 Crazy Light Boost basketball shoes for tennis for a few months.

For context, I am a 4.0 player in my early 40's, and when I play with people in my age group or older, I have been called "speedy," and against younger guys I am "normal" lol. I do not consider myself an "aggressive" mover, but I do run after most balls and I also try to serve and volley as much as possible.

With that said, the Crazy Light Boost cushioning was hands down the most comfortable, but it did take a little bit of getting used to with the "pillowy" feel that is more plush and a little higher off the ground compared to shoes like the Barricade Boost or the first gen Court FF. I also felt a little awkward on the side-to-side movement at first, but it wasn't an issue after the first couple weeks or so. The outsole also are not as sturdy as tennis shoes, but for me they held well for 3-4 months of singles play. I definitely could see these wearing out fast if a younger, aggressive moving player were to use them.

I think I could have gone at least another month with the CLB, but I use them now for walking my dogs or casual hikes at nearby parks. Ultimately I went back to using the recently discontinued Barricades with custom fit insoles. The insoles do a great job overall for cushioning and arch support, and the Barricades have great stability and last forever so it seemed like a good combination to me. Once these wear out I will probably try the new Court FF.

I think it might be worth it to go to a nearby mall to try out some basketball shoes and move around in them to get a feel for how different they are compared to tennis shoes. None of the retail stores I went to had the CLB, but they will probably have the latest versions of Hardens or Lebrons, which will give you a general idea. It is definitely a niche choice for shoes for tennis and it definitely feels different, but if you like the cushioning and comfort, and you feel like you can get used to the different feel, it might be worth taking the dive. But I think it is certainly understandable if anyone feels that the cost is not worth "experimenting" with shoes, since there are great tennis shoe options as well.

Will provide pictures comparing the CLB to my barricades when I get home!
 

tomato123

Semi-Pro
Barricade vs. Crazy Light Boost 2018 comparison:





I think the most relevant comparison is probably the outsole by the toe area. Both shoes have been worn approximately the same amount (~3 months).





I'd go as far as to say I've worn the Barricades longer, and you can see that it still shows very little sign of wear compared to the CLB. But again, for straight up comfort and cushioning, the CLB is far superior.

If I weigh both shoes, the Barricades with my custom insoles comes out to 15.4 ounces. The CLB, which has a Kingfoam Elite insole, weighs 16.3 ounces.

Hope this helps!
 

Ronaldo

Talk Tennis Guru
Me, I lucked into a pair of Reebok Bonzers, ala Patrick Rafter. GREAT cushion, support. You know. . . from the '90s.
Bet you feel 10 foot tall wearing them. Still have a pr, covered in duct tape. Sole separated
 
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bertrevert

Hall of Fame
Listen latest TW podcast, it is on shoes and trends and about half way thru they acknowledge that tech from other sports finds its way into t shoes.

From bball, running, mixed training.

We wld all like no doubt to see more tennis research but I doubt ours is a market big enough.

Yes volleys of yesteryear were enough... on grass, when game slower, when we didn't weigh so much. Whatever, but in my mind there is no doubt t shoes cld do with some major improvements. Hoping...
 

Ronaldo

Talk Tennis Guru
Listen latest TW podcast, it is on shoes and trends and about half way thru they acknowledge that tech from other sports finds its way into t shoes.

From bball, running, mixed training.

We wld all like no doubt to see more tennis research but I doubt ours is a market big enough.

Yes volleys of yesteryear were enough... on grass, when game slower, when we didn't weigh so much. Whatever, but in my mind there is no doubt t shoes cld do with some major improvements. Hoping...
Hard to improve shoes and continue to cut weight
 

Ronaldo

Talk Tennis Guru
Listen latest TW podcast, it is on shoes and trends and about half way thru they acknowledge that tech from other sports finds its way into t shoes.

From bball, running, mixed training.

We wld all like no doubt to see more tennis research but I doubt ours is a market big enough.

Yes volleys of yesteryear were enough... on grass, when game slower, when we didn't weigh so much. Whatever, but in my mind there is no doubt t shoes cld do with some major improvements. Hoping...
Hard to improve shoes and continue to cut weight
 

Lumber

New User
Good thread this one, keep it up!

I have tried both adidas crazylight boost, and adidas harden. They are both cushioned but I feel in my achilles tendon in some movements, they dont feel totally secure, there is an instability when doing fast movements. They are so high from the ground. The Harden shoe is clearly worse in this aspect. The crazylight boost might work ok if I dont run as fast...

I will try volleyball shoes. These are more dampened than tennis shoes due to all jumping but at the same time they are not as clumsy as the basketball shoes
 

Ronaldo

Talk Tennis Guru
Good thread this one, keep it up!

I have tried both adidas crazylight boost, and adidas harden. They are both cushioned but I feel in my achilles tendon in some movements, they dont feel totally secure, there is an instability when doing fast movements. They are so high from the ground. The Harden shoe is clearly worse in this aspect. The crazylight boost might work ok if I dont run as fast...

I will try volleyball shoes. These are more dampened than tennis shoes due to all jumping but at the same time they are not as clumsy as the basketball shoes
Gum rubber soles? Stabil?
 

FedGR

Semi-Pro
Bball shoes may have a thicker hell which raises the center of gravity, and may be move conducive to ankle rolls.
Or that might be some myth I just made up
I don't think you made this up, higher center of gravity does mean higher risk for ankle roll but as I need them only for practice, I won't push that hard in terms of footwork.

I used the 2018 Crazy Light Boost basketball shoes for tennis for a few months.

For context, I am a 4.0 player in my early 40's, and when I play with people in my age group or older, I have been called "speedy," and against younger guys I am "normal" lol. I do not consider myself an "aggressive" mover, but I do run after most balls and I also try to serve and volley as much as possible.

With that said, the Crazy Light Boost cushioning was hands down the most comfortable, but it did take a little bit of getting used to with the "pillowy" feel that is more plush and a little higher off the ground compared to shoes like the Barricade Boost or the first gen Court FF. I also felt a little awkward on the side-to-side movement at first, but it wasn't an issue after the first couple weeks or so. The outsole also are not as sturdy as tennis shoes, but for me they held well for 3-4 months of singles play. I definitely could see these wearing out fast if a younger, aggressive moving player were to use them.

I think I could have gone at least another month with the CLB, but I use them now for walking my dogs or casual hikes at nearby parks. Ultimately I went back to using the recently discontinued Barricades with custom fit insoles. The insoles do a great job overall for cushioning and arch support, and the Barricades have great stability and last forever so it seemed like a good combination to me. Once these wear out I will probably try the new Court FF.

I think it might be worth it to go to a nearby mall to try out some basketball shoes and move around in them to get a feel for how different they are compared to tennis shoes. None of the retail stores I went to had the CLB, but they will probably have the latest versions of Hardens or Lebrons, which will give you a general idea. It is definitely a niche choice for shoes for tennis and it definitely feels different, but if you like the cushioning and comfort, and you feel like you can get used to the different feel, it might be worth taking the dive. But I think it is certainly understandable if anyone feels that the cost is not worth "experimenting" with shoes, since there are great tennis shoe options as well.

Will provide pictures comparing the CLB to my barricades when I get home!
WOW, kudos to you Sir for all the input! I actually pulled the trigger and ordered some CLBs that arrived today so very excited to try them on the court. I also bought some Hardens so really excited to try though as well. From your pictures, it seems like the CLBs had only some minor usage signs after 3-4 months which is pretty good for a non-tennis shoe.

I also recently bought the Solecourt Boosts (clay version) and they are super soft and comfortable but quite heavy and slowish. Once I log some hours on the CLBs and Hardens I will provide an update here!

Thank you again
 

gino

Hall of Fame
Listen latest TW podcast, it is on shoes and trends and about half way thru they acknowledge that tech from other sports finds its way into t shoes.

From bball, running, mixed training.

We wld all like no doubt to see more tennis research but I doubt ours is a market big enough.

Yes volleys of yesteryear were enough... on grass, when game slower, when we didn't weigh so much. Whatever, but in my mind there is no doubt t shoes cld do with some major improvements. Hoping...
probably the way we should all look at it
 

FedGR

Semi-Pro
Kinda off-topic but in case somebody needs crazy good cushioning off court, check out the Adidas NMD R1. I tried the PrimeKnit version of it and it is simply the most comfortable shoe I've ever worn.
 

Ronaldo

Talk Tennis Guru
Kinda off-topic but in case somebody needs crazy good cushioning off court, check out the Adidas NMD R1. I tried the PrimeKnit version of it and it is simply the most comfortable shoe I've ever worn.
Ever try the PureBoost Go shoes? Super comfy in a kinda gumby, squishy marshmallow sole way.
 

FedGR

Semi-Pro
Ever try the PureBoost Go shoes? Super comfy in a kinda gumby, squishy marshmallow sole way.
I haven't but I will. I haven't looked into "good shoes" before but now that I am suffering from a lot of ankle pain I have to. I appreciate your suggestion, I'll go check them out!
 

Lumber

New User
Good thread this one, keep it up!

I have tried both adidas crazylight boost, and adidas harden. They are both cushioned but I feel in my achilles tendon in some movements, they dont feel totally secure, there is an instability when doing fast movements. They are so high from the ground. The Harden shoe is clearly worse in this aspect. The crazylight boost might work ok if I dont run as fast...

I will try volleyball shoes. These are more dampened than tennis shoes due to all jumping but at the same time they are not as clumsy as the basketball shoes
An update for my fellow players:

I have now tried Asics volleyball shoes and they are the best I have tried so far! They have more cushioning than the other Asics tennis shoes I have tested, and they also have good stability, even though somewhat less than the tennis shoes due to more cushioning, which the basketball shoes absolutely did not have. It makes sense that they have some more cushioning than tennis shoes since volleyball is in large part jumping as high as you can.
You would think that basketball shoes would be more stable than they were, strange.

I can warmly recommend volleyball shoes
 

Ronaldo

Talk Tennis Guru
An update for my fellow players:

I have now tried Asics volleyball shoes and they are the best I have tried so far! They have more cushioning than the other Asics tennis shoes I have tested, and they also have good stability, even though somewhat less than the tennis shoes due to more cushioning, which the basketball shoes absolutely did not have. It makes sense that they have some more cushioning than tennis shoes since volleyball is in large part jumping as high as you can.
You would think that basketball shoes would be more stable than they were, strange.

I can warmly recommend volleyball shoes
Which model/models?
 

bertrevert

Hall of Fame
ok it took me a little while to work out that this

is this here in Aus

and that the sizes given are mens sizes (kinda crucial), but note that it is listed for netball in Aus but volleyball in USA, eek

so stability is good (more than a bb shoe) and cushioning great???
 
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tomato123

Semi-Pro
Sort of interesting video on the Nike Vaporfly Next, which people are accusing of giving an "unfair advantage" in the running world, but the tech just seems like a carbon fiber plate and a LOT of foam.

 

Tennis_Hands

Talk Tennis Guru
Sort of interesting video on the Nike Vaporfly Next, which people are accusing of giving an "unfair advantage" in the running world, but the tech just seems like a carbon fiber plate and a LOT of foam.

Does this guy know what he is talking about?



Of course that a carbon fibre plate will act like a spring, if it is running through the entire length of the shoe and is thin enough to flex. If it was a carbon shank that would be completely different matter, but his dissection showed that it runs through the whole shoe.

 

haqq777

Legend
Sort of interesting video on the Nike Vaporfly Next, which people are accusing of giving an "unfair advantage" in the running world, but the tech just seems like a carbon fiber plate and a LOT of foam.

Great video, thanks for sharing. Wife just got me a pair of these. Only pair in the shop that the holiday discount did not apply on. I will say this to all the runners; if you haven't tried it, you need to. Feels fantastic. I run roughly 3 miles or so about twice or thrice a week. Definitely not at super competitive pace, but still decent. And these shoes feel and perform different than any other pair I have tried in a very good way.
 

airchallenge2

Professional
Great video, thanks for sharing. Wife just got me a pair of these. Only pair in the shop that the holiday discount did not apply on. I will say this to all the runners; if you haven't tried it, you need to. Feels fantastic. I run roughly 3 miles or so about twice or thrice a week. Definitely not at super competitive pace, but still decent. And these shoes feel and perform different than any other pair I have tried in a very good way.
Interesting post. Why do you like these shoes so much? Is it the comfort or pain free after your run? Are they more comfortable than adidas boost, for example? I'm curious.
 
Similar comfort just a more bouncier feeling step in them compared to my Ultraboosts. You feel like you spend less energy with each step.
+1 for me on that. It’s kind of the best of both worlds where it’s super soft but there’s also a huge amount of springiness and energy return. In running shoe comparisons it’s like the comfort of a hoka with the energy return of a racing flat, but without the drawbacks of either.


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