The die is cast

clayqueen

Talk Tennis Guru
You realize you can find many recent articles in specialized and general interest media (ESPN, SI, NY Times) saying Novak is GOAT?

data is not the plural of anecdote
So who decides who is GOAT? The Magazine editors?
 

vandre

Hall of Fame
On Good Morning Britain today the reporter said Emma Radnucanu is emulating the likes Federer...to win her first slam as a teenager!!!!

The Federer propaganda is so indelible that people don't even bother to check the facts anymore because they've been told for so long that Federer has broken all the records and he is the greatest player to ever pick up a racquet.
if they spent 10 seconds on wikipedia, they would know that wasn't true...
 

GabeT

G.O.A.T.
So who decides who is GOAT? The Magazine editors?
No one does, as you know. You think Nadal is GOAT, right? So it’s not like you make up your mind based on press reports

i don’t even think there can be a GOAT. But if we are going to debate what the overall public thinks we shouldn’t just pick articles that support one view and ignore others. And GQ is not even a real magazine, just a PR publisher. They publish puff pieces

My view is that we are in the middle of a shift. 10+ years ago every single GOAT list had Fed at the top and no one debated that. That world is gone.

There are plenty of ”Novak is Goat” articles but so long as they are all tied at 20 there will be disagreements. But if you listen to the tennis experts the tide is already turning. if Novak wins 1-2 more that will be it. And Nadal may still win more. The days of “Fed is GOAT’ are dying and pretty soon will be completely dead
 

bjsnider

Hall of Fame
I know what you mean. The other day, they claimed Raducanu had actually won Wimbledon by beating Mark Philippoussis! I mean, come on guys, do your friggin research.
 

clayqueen

Talk Tennis Guru
No one does, as you know. You think Nadal is GOAT, right? So it’s not like you make up your mind based on press reports

i don’t even think there can be a GOAT. But if we are going to debate what the overall public thinks we shouldn’t just pick articles that support one view and ignore others. And GQ is not even a real magazine, just a PR publisher. They publish puff pieces

My view is that we are in the middle of a shift. 10+ years ago every single GOAT list had Fed at the top and no one debated that. That world is gone.

There are plenty of ”Novak is Goat” articles but so long as they are all tied at 20 there will be disagreements. But if you listen to the tennis experts the tide is already turning. if Novak wins 1-2 more that will be it. And Nadal may still win more. The days of “Fed is GOAT’ are dying and pretty soon will be completely dead
Forget GOAT. Nadal is the King.
 

goldengate14

Professional
Why do I think that you would have suddenly started to love British media had they taken the equivalence of Nadal? :unsure:


Anyway Djokovic has eclipsed both of them, so he should be the one getting mentioned.
Except he hasnt. Djokovic desperately needs to win slam race. Federer and Nadal do not. The OP is spot on about Federer perception and Nadal has the Golden Slam and most majors at a single slam both of which will stand he test of time. Djokovic is reliant on rankings which do not equate to greatness.
Djokovic was proclaimed as Goat after w 2021. since UO those procliamations have abruptly stopped.
whoever wins slam race will be goat. 21 looks like the magic number
 

goldengate14

Professional
No. It’s true that at this point Federer is perceived as the one who won the most by the uninformed public. But if we use that as a measuring stick then very few will know Nadal is King of Clay since that’s not something the uninformed public knows or cares about.

but the process will change as Novak continues to win. Already in the specialized press (such as ESPN or Sports Illustrated, or the sports section of something like the NYT) there are more and more articles stating that Novak is GOAT. IF Novak ends with the most slams, most weeks, and most YE1 this view will become unanimous and will filter to the rest of the public.
Nobody now calls Djokovic Goat. Not one publication. Nadal was voted best sportsman of 21st century by general sports fans due to his Rg record. Federer and Nadal transcend the sport. Djokovic does not. Had he won CYGS he would have done.
Whoever wins Slam race will be Goat. As of now its Fedal still utterly dominant globally to the general sports fan.
 

PilotPete

Hall of Fame
In the end, Federer will be seen as the GOAT, Rafa will be the undisputed King of Clay and Djokovic will be just another ATG. Mark my words.
If there is no GOAT for you personally, then you shouldn't care. But clearly you do, suggesting you're not being honest with yourself about your true beliefs.
 

clayqueen

Talk Tennis Guru
If there is no GOAT for you personally, then you shouldn't care. But clearly you do, suggesting you're not being honest with yourself about your true beliefs.
I am not that narrowminded to believe that because I don't believe in the GOAT theory no one else does. That's burying my head in the sand. So whilst I don't agree with the subjective criteria for GOAT or even the fact that there can be a GOAT, I will continue to put Rafa's case as many people actually believe in the concept.
 
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goldengate14

Professional
I am not that narrowminded to believe that because I don't believe in the GOAT theory no one else does. That's burying my head in the sand. So whilst I don't agree with the subjective criteria for GOAT or even the fact that there can be a GOAT, I will continue to put Rafa's case if many people actually believe in the concept.
It is a very.powerful case. Agassi is bracketed with Sampras despite being almost half short Major wise. Agassi is known worldwide for his Golden Slam. I remember when he won 1996 Olympics he was front page news globally vividly remember the pics.
Nadal has the most Majors as well as that Golden Slam and the most insane record at a Major. In 50 years time i am.sure nadal.will be most remembered. Federer though is right with him and it will forever be the Fedal era. The die was cast two seeks Sunday ago.
 

GabeT

G.O.A.T.
Nobody now calls Djokovic Goat. Not one publication. Nadal was voted best sportsman of 21st century by general sports fans due to his Rg record. Federer and Nadal transcend the sport. Djokovic does not. Had he won CYGS he would have done.
Whoever wins Slam race will be Goat. As of now its Fedal still utterly dominant globally to the general sports fan.
Bud, please stop
 

PilotPete

Hall of Fame
I am not that narrowminded to believe that because I don't believe in the GOAT theory no one else does. That's burying my head in the sand. So whilst I don't agree with the subjective criteria for GOAT or even the fact that there can be a GOAT, I will continue to put Rafa's case as many people actually believe in the concept.
You still don't seem to understand. You said for YOU there is no GOAT. Yes, others may still believe there is a GOAT. In that case your answer shouldn't be, my pick is Nadal, your answer should be there is no GOAT, if you truly believe that.
 

clayqueen

Talk Tennis Guru
It is a very.powerful case. Agassi is bracketed with Sampras despite being almost half short Major wise. Agassi is known worldwide for his Golden Slam. I remember when he won 1996 Olympics he was front page news globally vividly remember the pics.
Nadal has the most Majors as well as that Golden Slam and the most insane record at a Major. In 50 years time i am.sure nadal.will be most remembered. Federer though is right with him and it will forever be the Fedal era. The die was cast two seeks Sunday ago.
Nadal is also more talented because he was a winner from the beginning. It took Federer 18 attempts to win his first slam and Djokovic only got into the ATG debate at the age of 24 with Roger past his prime and Nadal constantly hampered with injury since 2012. Rafa has not been outside the top 10 since 2005.

This is what Rafa achieved before he turned 20 when Roger and Djokovic were yet to win their first slam:
 

goldengate14

Professional
Nadal is also more talented because he was a winner from the beginning. It took Federer 18 attempts to win his first slam and Djokovic only got into the ATG debate at the age of 24 with Roger past his prime and Nadal constantly hampered with injury since 2012. Rafa has not been outside the top 10 since 2005.

This is what Rafa achieved before he turned 20 when Roger and Djokovic were yet to win their first slam:
Again spot on . I get the debste between Nadal and Federer but i genuinely dont see how some claim Djokovic is their equal. By 2012 Federer was in his 30
Nadal is also more talented because he was a winner from the beginning. It took Federer 18 attempts to win his first slam and Djokovic only got into the ATG debate at the age of 24 with Roger past his prime and Nadal constantly hampered with injury since 2012. Rafa has not been outside the top 10 since 2005.

This is what Rafa achieved before he turned 20 when Roger and Djokovic were yet to win their first slam:
absolutely nailed it again.
 
On Good Morning Britain today the reporter said Emma Radnucanu is emulating the likes Federer and Serena to win her first slam as a teenager!!!!
All good for her and it's a massive accomplishment for sure.

As we have seen with plenty of youngsters... can they maintain form and continue to play great tennis throughout their career. I feel she definitely has the game for it. Only time will tell.
 
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