The Donald

Jack the Hack said:
The Donald has won almost $4.7 million in his career in prize money alone. Add in his endorsement money, and I'm sure he'll be fine.
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His parents owns a couple of Tennis Academies in Atlanta area and he can be the head pro if he needs to find work if he gets rejected from ESPN tennis or TC USA!
 
The donald just needs to get his ranking to below 200 and then he can do qualifying for 125ATP and GS tournaments. Then if he can get to around 110, he can get qualifying into ATP 500s. And 100 and below direct entry into GSs.
 
Nostradamus said:
young getting blown out. if he gets a good coach to coach him, can he break back into top 50 ??
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I think the number of new ATP players are much more competitive then when The Donald was playing in the main draw tournaments. I like to see that but The Donald at his best would now be 80s now!
 
This really would be a fitting end - losing 0 and 0 in qualies.

No, he never lived up tp the hype (which was overdone like it is for so many players), but he had his okay journeyman career - a couple slam 4th rounds, wins over Murray and Wawrinka, a Top 40 ranking, $4.6 million in prize money, got to play on the biggest stages. My only regret for him is that he didn't win a singles tournament, only made the finals.

My "standard" for journeymen players is whether they can get into the Top 105-ish and stay there at least for a little bit - so that they can get auto entry into slams for a year or two and get that Slam money and points. DY did that on multiple occasions. I don't think he can get there again, or even come close.

Since he hasn't been around in any sort of legit way on the main tour for a while now, I wonder how serious he is about tennis. I mean, if he wants to have some end-of-career fun playing challengers, futures, qualies, so be it. But, at some point he needs to decide what to do next. While I don't think his hands were as special as some people once said, nevertheless he did have decent hands at net, and an okay lefty serve. I'm surprised he never gave it a serious go in doubles. He did make a Slam final, but he didn't seem to consistently pursue doubles, try to find a permanent partner.
 
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bluetrain4 said:
This really would be a fitting end - losing 0 and 0 in qualies.

No, he never lived up tp the hype (which was overdone like it is for so many players), but he had his okay journeyman career - a couple slam 4th rounds, wins over Murray and Wawrinka, a Top 40 ranking, $4.5 million in prize money, got to play on the biggest stages. My only regret for him is that he didn't win a singles tournament, only made the finals.

My "standard" for journeymen players is whether they can get into the Top 105-ish and stay there at least for a little bit - so that they can get auto entry into slams for a year or two and get that Slam money and points. DY did that on multiple occasions. I don't think he can get there again, or even come close.

Since he hasn't been around in any sort of legit way on the main tour for a while now, I wonder how serious he is about tennis. I mean, if he wants to have some end-of-career fun playing challengers, futures, qualies, so be it. But, at some point he needs to decide what to do next. While I don't think his hands were as special as some people once said, nevertheless he did have decent hands at net, and an okay lefty serve. I'm surprised he never gave it a serious go in doubles. He did make a Slam final, but he didn't seem to consistently pursue doubles, try to try a permanent partner.
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which qualies is that ?
 
He’s 32. That’s normal for players to hit the skids. Nothing unusual here. Just wonder how long he’ll keep hanging on.
 
Can someone summarize the hate for DY over his career?
He made it to top 40. That's pretty great.

Many teen phenoms do not translate to a world stage.
Across many genres, sports, film, music. Child and teen stars.

Mackie was multi NCAA champ and only made it to 57, so far.
I don't see the same disdain for Mackie.
 
FiddlerDog said:
Can someone summarize the hate for DY over his career?
He made it to top 40. That's pretty great.

Many teen phenoms do not translate to a world stage.
Across many genres, sports, film, music. Child and teen stars.

Mackie was multi NCAA champ and only made it to 57, so far.
I don't see the same disdain for Mackie.
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The hype for the Don was quite a bit more, er, intense than for other up-and-coming American players, guys who ended up doing much better like Isner, or even Steve Johnson.

Mackie played college tennis, and was never thought of as some exceptional prospect (even though getting to 57 is pretty exceptional). No one thought he'd be competing for slams, like a lot of people did with Young.

Some of the hate also possibly comes from his seemingly poor career decisions and staying with his parents as coaches, (possibly going against the USTA? I'm not sure about that). I have a pretty low opinion of the USTA, but staying with his parents didn't work out that well, and was seen as an excuse to promote his parents' academy instead of finding a different coaching solution.

The only other American teen to get similarly hyped at that time was Harrison, and that worked out super well as we all know.
 
FiddlerDog said:
Can someone summarize the hate for DY over his career?
He made it to top 40. That's pretty great.

Many teen phenoms do not translate to a world stage.
Across many genres, sports, film, music. Child and teen stars.

Mackie was multi NCAA champ and only made it to 57, so far.
I don't see the same disdain for Mackie.
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Cus he's American. Canadians don't hate Peliwo. Lollll
 
pcft369 said:
That is hilarious. I've got to save this post, because... you cannot be serious!
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Not even a top 10 cla.s.sic from our Cosa Nostra. You should ask him why he finds it odd that peeps try to buy the farm by jumping off the Golden Gate Bridge (“after all they’re diving into water.:unsure:)
 
FiddlerDog said:
Can someone summarize the hate for DY over his career?
He made it to top 40. That's pretty great.

Many teen phenoms do not translate to a world stage.
Across many genres, sports, film, music. Child and teen stars.

Mackie was multi NCAA champ and only made it to 57, so far.
I don't see the same disdain for Mackie.
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I think it's a reaction to hype. When DY was a young kid, like 14 or something, he was getting a lot of attention, he hit with McEnroe and Mac said something like "he's got the best hands since me", DY got wildcards to ATP events, etc. Fans love being contrary and countering hype. And somehow it goes from "I don't think he'll be that great" to "he's a loser, a failure, a mug, LOL I hate him". Or at least on these boards it does. Maybe this place is just full of trolls.
 
Max G. said:
I think it's a reaction to hype. When DY was a young kid, like 14 or something, he was getting a lot of attention, he hit with McEnroe and Mac said something like "he's got the best hands since me", DY got wildcards to ATP events, etc. Fans love being contrary and countering hype. And somehow it goes from "I don't think he'll be that great" to "he's a loser, a failure, a mug, LOL I hate him". Or at least on these boards it does. Maybe this place is just full of trolls.
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We do seem to turn on our own, don't we :)
 
Max G. said:
I think it's a reaction to hype. When DY was a young kid, like 14 or something, he was getting a lot of attention, he hit with McEnroe and Mac said something like "he's got the best hands since me", DY got wildcards to ATP events, etc. Fans love being contrary and countering hype. And somehow it goes from "I don't think he'll be that great" to "he's a loser, a failure, a mug, LOL I hate him". Or at least on these boards it does. Maybe this place is just full of trolls.
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also it didn’t help that he generally looked quite lazy and sometimes uninterested in his losses, leading to him (not uncommon with flashy black athletes) to be labeled as lazy and not dedicated. In all honesty having the fortitude to go back to challengers and work his way back multiple times after being top 50 shows a level of dedication to his craft that is admirable. The other part of it was he did well at the USO a few times and thus American media hyped him like a future star when in reality he was quite mediocre elsewhere most of the time.

But the real reason is he had much more talent than Mackie McDonald. Look at some of his wins (he beat Murray and Wawrinka) and the angles he played with and it’s easy to understand the hype.

Either way though the hype didn’t end up being justified so I agree with you. But let’s not act like Donald didn’t deserve some of the hype.
 
Donald was the youngest number 1 junior in history, that is a fact. Simply because of that, of course he is going to get identified as the next big thing.

The reality is that he was always a tweener. He was the number 1 junior, but he was still too small physically and maturity-wise for the pro tour. So what was he supposed to do, stay in school to play on his high school team? He was offered and he accepted wild-cards into a good number of pro events, of course. I attended a number of those events and would have rather seen Donald play rather any of the other wild-card entries so they were good decisions for tennis fans.

But he was not physically ready for the tour. Then, the co-poly string revolution began and he had to adjust to new equipment which required different strokes and different strategy. Co-poly strings fit the games of some players but not all. I think that they did not fit Donald's game very well. He is a fast, all-court player with great hands that disguised poor footwork for his whole career. Long grinding rallies and matches are not the best fit for his strengths. The massive topspin that other players are able to create were a disadvantage for him.

In hindsight, he probably made some poor coaching decisions. But then, the coaches that he selected had coached someone to be the number 1 junior player in history, so there's that. USTA coaching with all of their resources have produced exactly no-one, so not going that direction was not a bad decision.

I hope that he is physically healthy enough to continue to play. And that he has the desire for the co-poly grind, and that he comes back to play and has more success.
 
I was there in 2005 at Futures tournaments, stringing and watching the melodrama of the Donald Young developmental era firsthand. Looking back, it’s a small miracle the kid emerged from his own personal chaos of that time to eventually crack the top 50.

Young’s problems began several years before I met him. Before the family picked up sticks and moved to Atlanta, Donald grew up in Chicago and caught some marketing “gurus” attention at IMG from his very early junior days. A hitting session with JMac playing a fellow lefty ball boy at a Chicago Legends pro tour stop ensued. That’s when the hype train started rolling.

Head and Nike were there to throw some some serious cash during the hypemobile acceleration. Big contracts funded the family’s move to Atlanta where his parents tried to go what they thought was the Richard Williams route and shut out any outside coaching. What they didn’t realize is Williams had good coaches molding his daughters’ skills all along before Dad Richard dumped them and moved along (Rick Macci).

The Youngs were way too hands on during Donald’s formative years when a solid coach could have established good habits and fundamentals during Donald’s early teen years. I saw a healthy dynamic that contrasted with this a decade later when teenage Shapo played the same Futures but traveled with a coach and had great chemistry with the other guys (Kecmanovic was very close).

Fast forward just a few years ahead to 2005 and that’s when my eyewitness account begins. Because mom or dad traveled with then 15-year-old DY there was a layer of bonding with the other slightly older boys that never happened. When I met the Youngs they had already gone Down Under and Donald had won AO Boys. This Futures calendar section was on HarTru in Florida just prior to RG so there were about 10 top juniors who headed across the pond and played there. I have to wonder why that schedule was made; if making a run at RG was a goal, a good coach would have him in Europe in late April and playing red clay to be prepped properly. Donald lost 2R. None of the others did very well either. The QFs featured guys who were already bigger and stronger but not ranked as high (Cilic, JMDP, Querrey, Murray) and Donald’s conqueror Dolgopolov.

While other promising juniors already had an established routine with racquets, strings and tension, Donald and his parents were still experimenting with set up. They had another bag of string we tested a year later at Futures on HCs. Still no formula and still not winning at minor league levels.

There was too much too soon on Donald’s shoulders, long before his body had a chance to finish growing. In addition, there was never a certified chauffeur driving the limousine to get him where he wanted. That kind of muddled management probably took its impact on Donald’s mental game. Put it together and it really became a cluster you know what.
 
I can't really blame him for taking the wild cards and the money when he was young. But, stringertom is absolutely right - it was up to others around him to set a course - take advantage of some of the things coming his way, but also not have him be overwhelmed and still have proper avenues to develop. And, there was never a great captain to the DY ship.

It is sort of crazy that the tennis world and sponsors and agents get so hyped about junior No. 1s and Slam champions - especially when they're so young (no pun intended). DY being the youngest junior No. 1 should have been viewed as LESS of a good bet than if he was an older No. 1 - because he wasn't anywhere near done growing and no one knew where he'd end up physically, or where his opponents would end up physically. There's BIG list of junior Slam champs and highly ranked players who had non-existent or unremarkable "senior" careers.

Stringertom is right -- maybe DY was viewed as lazy (I don't completely remember this), but he grinded out those years on tour. Remember the losing streak AFTER he had been in the Top 75 in the rankings? But, he played challengers and worked his way back to auto-Slam-entry ranking. He worked his way back to a degree multiple times. And the whole thing with his parents is sort of sad and unfortunate. I mean, maybe he should have broken away sooner, but family dynamics can be difficult and he maybe felt like he had to stick with them, felt obligated. Wasn't he their only child? They did a lot for him, even if it was his contract money that enabled them to move to Atlanta. They should have let him go -- not made it dependent on his wishes.

We naturally want books and and articles from and about the ATGs of the sport - Like Agassi's book. But, an honest DY book about his tennis career -- I'd buy it in a second. But no publisher would want it, so it probably wouldn't happen. In the broader context, his career is enviable to 99.5% of people who have ever attempted to play pro tennis. But, in light of hype and expectations he's considered a failure or at least "underwhelming" or "disappointing" career.
 
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Also I remember PMac calling a match at the US Open and he threw DY and his family under the bus. Said basically "Hey, we (the USTA) offered lots of support to DY and he turned it all down." Think there was an offer to train with Nadal before the FO, and the Young family turned it down. So, a lot of bad decisions coming from the DY camp over the years.
 
pcft369 said:
Also I remember PMac calling a match at the US Open and he threw DY and his family under the bus. Said basically "Hey, we (the USTA) offered lots of support to DY and he turned it all down." Think there was an offer to train with Nadal before the FO, and the Young family turned it down. So, a lot of bad decisions coming from the DY camp over the years.
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PMac had always done the CYA skills well. Maybe the Youngs saw his track record as USTA Player Development Director for what is was…absolutely abysmal and said, “We got this!”
 
stringertom said:
8 match losing streak at all sanctioned tournaments and levels. Is that “playing?”
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It is tennis! I had loosing streaks too but not 8 straight match looses that I remember but sure 6! That is tennis for you! At least Donald is still hanging in there, even if his ranking continues on the downward slope. Got to give The Donald some love to stick in there when times are tough.
 
Harry_Wild said:
It is tennis! I had loosing streaks too but not 8 straight match looses that I remember but sure 6! That is tennis for you! At least Donald is still hanging in there, even if his ranking continues on the downward slope. Got to give The Donald some love to stick in there when times are tough.
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Agree. Although he may be heading to the tail end of his playing days. Would be fun to see him make another serious push.
 
andfor said:
Agree. Although he may be heading to the tail end of his playing days. Would be fun to see him make another serious push.
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I’m all for veterans trying to make a comeback. Tommy Robredo, former top 5 player, kept grinding at Challenger level and got some limited success for several years before falling off the edge post-Covid. He’s now on a 7-match skid but has taken nearly a full season to “achieve” the fine mess he’s in at #321. The next move may be to -30- his career and join buddies like Haas, Blake, Krajicek, Soderling and more who facilitate for the current players as Tournament Directors. Banco Sabadell should hire him on in some capacity at the Barca 500 when he’s ready.

Sure, DY can dream but he’s not producing and hasn’t been in a long while now. He hasn’t won 2 matches in a row since qualifying at Delray in January. I ask simply the same inquiry I have asked when seeing Robredo struggle so badly: Why be selfish and take draw slots from young players on the way up? Learn to read the graffiti: time is soon to make the change.
 
stringertom said:
I’m all for veterans trying to make a comeback. Tommy Robredo, former top 5 player, kept grinding at Challenger level and got some limited success for several years before falling off the edge post-Covid. He’s now on a 7-match skid but has taken nearly a full season to “achieve” the fine mess he’s in at #321. The next move may be to -30- his career and join buddies like Haas, Blake, Krajicek, Soderling and more who facilitate for the current players as Tournament Directors. Banco Sabadell should hire him on in some capacity at the Barca 500 when he’s ready.

Sure, DY can dream but he’s not producing and hasn’t been in a long while now. He hasn’t won 2 matches in a row since qualifying at Delray in January. I ask simply the same inquiry I have asked when seeing Robredo struggle so badly: Why be selfish and take draw slots from young players on the way up? Learn to read the graffiti: time is soon to make the change.
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If the vet is training hard and can win that's okay with me. Taking wild cards into higher events without winning repeatedly is garbage. I'd prefer to see the vet win their way back up through the ranks. For the Donald I just gotta wonder how hard he's training. Some of his past beat downs of late make me question that. If TD's give away the WC it's on the TD not the player as far as I'm concerned.

I do like the WC Xavier Malisse took in doubles. One his first match, he and his doubles partner Lloyd Harris up next. Guessing this is for fun for Malisse.
 
andfor said:
If the vet is training hard and can win that's okay with me. Taking wild cards into higher events without winning repeatedly is garbage. I'd prefer to see the vet win their way back up through the ranks. For the Donald I just gotta wonder how hard he's training. Some of his past beat downs of late make me question that. If TD's give away the WC it's on the TD not the player as far as I'm concerned.

I do like the WC Xavier Malisse took in doubles. One his first match, he and his doubles partner Lloyd Harris up next. Guessing this is for fun for Malisse.
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The Malisse WC is moot. Harris is a natural as an entry so letting him pick his assistant coach as his dubs partner is a common courtesy. Tsitsipas and Djokovic have often asked for their brothers to be allowed in.

As to DY, his 8 losses were administered by players with current rankings at an average of roughly #250. He’s won 4 sets and lost a double bagel in qualifying for ATP250 W-S to a player now ranked at #256.

I encourage you to digest those stats and decide if Donald is still right for trying mostly Challengers and above.

The one good bit of news…DY dropped back to Futures this week and has ended the skid by beating a teen with no ranking. What goes around…I met and strung for teen Young at Futures tournaments in 2005.
 
stringertom said:
The Malisse WC is moot. Harris is a natural as an entry so letting him pick his assistant coach as his dubs partner is a common courtesy. Tsitsipas and Djokovic have often asked for their brothers to be allowed in.

As to DY, his 8 losses were administered by players with current rankings at an average of roughly #250. He’s won 4 sets and lost a double bagel in qualifying for ATP250 W-S to a player now ranked at #256.

I encourage you to digest those stats and decide if Donald is still right for trying mostly Challengers and above.

The one good bit of news…DY dropped back to Futures this week and has ended the skid by beating a teen with no ranking. What goes around…I met and strung for teen Young at Futures tournaments in 2005.
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You get to pick and choose what is okay with WC's and vets and what's not. Must be nice.

More important I encourage you to go back and reread my post. I was agreeing with you.

The only thing I added is the TD's are the one's granting the WC's and it should their responsibility to put a stop to it given the player stats that they likely know. BTW, Tsitsipas and Djokovic often are leveraging a WC for their bros as condition of their appearing. Given it's unfair to those players who would be better competition and earned it, not sure how to stop the stars from this practice.

Just trying to have a conversation. No fight here. Unless you want one. HAHA
 
andfor said:
You get to pick and choose what is okay with WC's and vets and what's not. Must be nice.

More important I encourage you to go back and reread my post. I was agreeing with you.

The only thing I added is the TD's are the one's granting the WC's and it should their responsibility to put a stop to it given the player stats that they likely know. BTW, Tsitsipas and Djokovic often are leveraging a WC for their bros as condition of their appearing. Given it's unfair to those players who would be better competition and earned it, not sure how to stop the stars from this practice.

Just trying to have a conversation. No fight here. Unless you want one. HAHA
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How do you read anything I have said as raising the rhetorical level? I recounted Young’s slide and his composite opponents average and told you and anyone else reading the stats to determine their opinions on those stats. I also stated it’s pretty much a given that a TD in control of open dubs slots in his draw will entice a singles player to do double duty by giving the player great latitude as to choosing his partner, irrespective of any incentives that may or may not exist. Harris's request to play with Coach Malisse is entirely appropriate.

So 17 years ago you opened an account and within the first posts I have exchanged with you in 2021 my reading comprehension is being questioned and you’re more than willing to escalate to a troll level confrontation “if I want to.”??? No, that’s your agenda, making something out of nothing. I will pass. Enjoy your return to TTW. Without me, of course.
 
Time for The Donald to take a crack at at the Tennis Channel news desk. He would be just the kind of guy to be given a chance at that, and if he is even halfway serviceable as a analyst, he will be invited back for more. He's got a nice smile and as long as doesn't have to talk about Ryan Harrison he'll be okay.
 
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