Purestriker
Legend
Depends on your section.
The dreaded EOY Rating thread
- Thread starter Brilliant
- Start date
schmke
Legend
I could be wrong, but I don't think that is true.
The cut-off date is established by National and is traditionally when the last Nationals event is, which this year is 11/10. I have not confirmed that though.
Purestriker
Legend
I should have clarified. Some sections used to only use spring season and now they use Tri-level. Or mixed season if you only played mixed. So, previously for us, we were done in May outside of sanctioned adult tournaments. Now, we go through September due to Tri-level counting.
schmke
Legend
Ahhhh, I see your point, and you are correct, sections get to choose which leagues count.
Purestriker
Legend
This is the best season I’ve had inside (our rating season 13-3), and I doubt I get bumped. Lot of new players in our area and most of them were not at our level, even if they were rated that way.
kevin qmto
Hall of Fame
What are the likely indicators you’re about to be bumped to the next level in USTA?
am1899
Legend
In no particular order:
- Playing up and winning (or losing but close scoreline)
- Playing a lot of singles and winning
- Blowout wins over computer rated opponents
kevin qmto
Hall of Fame
Well, in 2022 (my first season at 4.0) I went 14-10
2023: 16-8
2024: 13-8 (so far)
I only play singles. My WTN is at 24.51
schmke
Legend
Depending on the strength of your opponents and your scores, you are likely a strong 4.0 to border-line bump up to 4.5. But one really can't say based just on records.
Your WTN is quite good for a 4.0 so that might be an indication you are on your way to a bump up, but then again there isn't necessarily a correlation between NTRP and WTN.
Note that WTN only looks at sets and not games, so doesn't give credit for blowout wins or keeping matches close in losses against strong opponents. Win in straight sets, your rating goes up, lose in straight sets, it goes down.
Your WTN is quite good for a 4.0 so that might be an indication you are on your way to a bump up, but then again there isn't necessarily a correlation between NTRP and WTN.
Note that WTN only looks at sets and not games, so doesn't give credit for blowout wins or keeping matches close in losses against strong opponents. Win in straight sets, your rating goes up, lose in straight sets, it goes down.
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am1899
Legend
@kevin qmto I concur with @schmke assessment.
Purestriker
Legend
Bagels and bread sticks.
kevin qmto
Hall of Fame
Honestly I don't have too many of those, but last fall I did win 11 matches in a row.
Purestriker
Legend
That’s awesome!!
This is not necessarily true. Winning a lot of doubles with a partner rated lower than you are is probably the easiest way to get bumped. The bigger the rating differential, the more likely you are to get bumped.
Purestriker
Legend
While I don't have any data to back it up, I do think this is true. I have gotten my last three partners bumped in a row, this year will make number 4. I get called a massive sandbagger and people get angry with me, but I don't know what I can do about it. I have tried to appeal up and have gotten denied. I do think it is because my first two years I played with random players that were computer rated players that got bumped and then a bunch of matches with a beginner who was really bad.
am1899
Legend
It reminds me of an episode of Avatar the Last Air bender where there's a fortune teller who predicts everyone's future, and when she get's to old Uncle Iroh, he declines saying at his age, life has only one last surprise for him, and he'd just as well not know...
LOBALOT
Legend
Exactly, at some point/age it really just doesn't mater any more. I think I hit that point about 5 years ago.
GrassCourtFan
Legend
Whelp, this year I'm definitely getting worse. My singles UTR is now 6; I'm losing to people I never used to lose to before.
Fortunately, there just haven't been many USTA matches this fall so I'm not actually in danger of being bumped down (and I still don't think I would be... I hope I haven't declined enough to lose to 4.0s. But I'm not sure.)
Hey, maybe I should play more singles this year so my rating drops and I get a chance to clean up 4.0 next year
Fortunately, there just haven't been many USTA matches this fall so I'm not actually in danger of being bumped down (and I still don't think I would be... I hope I haven't declined enough to lose to 4.0s. But I'm not sure.)
Hey, maybe I should play more singles this year so my rating drops and I get a chance to clean up 4.0 next year
silverwyvern4
Semi-Pro
your rating won't change by itself if you don't play any matches
It's not exactly your choice. If you have a computer rating from the last three years, it's up to the computer, not you. You can apply for a medical appeal, but at least in Middle States, they don't grant that for any injury that will heal eventually, even if it takes a full year.
hi you post matchplays. Do you have any video of recent practice or play?
silverwyvern4
Semi-Pro
USTA announced they're releasing ratings on November 29th this year.
I got an email this morning saying that November 29th will be the early-access day for those who completed a "Safe Sport" traning course. Others will get their rating 4 days later.
silverwyvern4
Semi-Pro
12/3 for people who don't sign up for early notification
Is this the one where they have videos about coach/player abuse? I did that one as it was recommended to me, but useless as I am not a coach nor do I have kids who work w/ coaches. I also don't work w/ a coach so I'm not worried about being preyed upon! It really was a waste of resources when really they should have stuff like, what to do if you're being hooked, how to deal w/ a sandbagger, what to do if you're playing someone who's a psycho/filing a grievance etc.
schmke
Legend
Yeah, this is a best a bit odd to be creating an incentive for league players that have little to no role with situations where safe-sport training comes into play to go through the training. But then again I haven't gone through the linked training to see what it is, perhaps it is somehow applicable.
J011yroger
Talk Tennis Guru
Purestriker
Legend
I have, the material is really only if you are a coach or intend to help captain junior team tennis players. Which I used to do when my son was 5, but stopped once he started doing competitve tournaments. I just assumed that email went to people who had coached or captained junior team tennis in the past.
schmke
Legend
So, I clicked on the link, and there appear to be three courses and taking any one checks the box. They are:
Parent’s Guide to Misconduct in Sport
Abuse Prevention for Adult Athletes
SafeSport for Volunteers
So it does appear the training isn't solely focused on juniors.
Purestriker
Legend
The adult athlete training is an interesting topic.
For me it wasn't. I mean this is something the USTA/WTA shouldn't be lecturing us but should look at how they're doing business.
For us amateurs, I haven't heard of people doing "favors" to get playing time or what have you from the captain. Some people say that mixed sectionals is like a swinger's party, but I don't know about that. I don't think there's enough power differential from a league captain and a player to sway someone, but who knows.
I mean near everyone I play with is 30-40 so we've been through college parties, drinking, etc. and I can't recall the last time I've seen anyone really under the influence.
silverwyvern4
Semi-Pro
I thought maybe they would start to offer a premium membership tier in order to see ratings early. I guess this is free at least.
schmke
Legend
They must have some metric about the number of people that have been safe sport trained and this is their bright idea to boost those numbers with all the 50+ league players.
100% the thinking
Purestriker
Legend
I was being sarcastic.
How sure are you?
You should search and find the thread that discusses tennisrecords algorithm.
I don’t care about TR. I care about the official algorithm.
Purestriker
Legend
Then you can't assume your opponents ratings are 3.51. They might actually be 2.51. Because the real rating isn't viewable.
I’m talking hypothetical. I wanna know how NTRP would be calculated if you had the same dynamic rating as your opponent and won 6-0, 6-0.
Purestriker
Legend
I think you would get a strike if as a self rated player you beat a player 0,0 that hypothetically had the same rating.
why don't you cozy up to the league coordinator; buy them a drink, offer them a neck massage, and whisper the question to them when the mood is right.
but make sure you do the safety videos first.
Nobody knows the specifics of the ‘real algorithm’ however since 0,0 is an accepted outcome within a rating band, one might assume that the TR algorithm is accurate or darn close.
No, the TR algorithm is definitely wrong there. TR bases a player's match rating on a differential from the rating of the opponent. So, if they are using a 0.50 differential from the opponent's 3.01 starting rating, you would end up with 3.51 (and the opponent if your rating is also 3.01 would end up with 2.51 on TR). The USTA uses a differential from the average of the starting ratings. If both players start with 3.01 and the differential is 0.50, then you end up with 3.26 and the opponent 2.76.
The USTA approach is way better because you can end up with "tied" matches where the players get a different match ratings, which makes no sense (i.e. if you play to a dead tie, you're playing at the same level, not different levels). Suppose you start a match with a rating of 3.50 and your opponent 3.00 and your opponent plays out of his mind and maybe you're off a little and you beat him 6-3 2-6 1-0 (so "tied" 9-9 in total games in the rating algorithm when you needed a match tb to pull out the win on the court). In TR where they anchor match ratings to the opponent's rating, you get a 3.00 for the match and your opponent gets 3.50. In the USTA, you both get 3.25. It's nonsensical to think that in a match where your opponent wins exactly the same number of games as you but also loses the match on the court, that a rating algorithm would say he played a full level above you (i.e. 3.50 vs 3.00), but that's how TR would evaluate the match.
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