The dreaded EOY Rating thread

Moveforwardalways said:
Appeal ups seem very odd. If a 3.5 player appeals up to 4.0 so she can then play up on a 4.5 team, doesn’t the 4.5 captain know that she is really a 3.5 because her USTA rating is 4.0A and not 4.0C? Surely the 4.5 captain would not be fooled by this. Why would the 4.5 captain take this player on her team?
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Many on this forum detest the concept of appealing up. But, these same critics have no qualms about the self-rate system, which distorts the playing field even more. For instance, a player of 3.0 ability self-rates to 3.5. Then, immediately demands to join the club's 4.0 team (since the rules allow them to play up one level). This sort of thing happens, and it's ridiculous. Such players ruin the environment for the players that earned their spots through match performance.
 
ThinkPad said:
Many on this forum detest the concept of appealing up. But, these same critics have no qualms about the self-rate system, which distorts the playing field even more. For instance, a player of 3.0 ability self-rates to 3.5. Then, immediately demands to join the club's 4.0 team (since the rules allow them to play up one level). This sort of thing happens, and it's ridiculous. Such players ruin the environment for the players that earned their spots through match performance.
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Could easily be solved at the captain level though.
 
schmke said:
You often need the club/director/players to buy into an A and B team so the rosters are small enough to get everyone their matches, and the stronger players can all be on the "A" team to make their playoff run.
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That’s our plan. It does hurt some feelings, folks that think the should be ion the A team and don’t make it.
 
We split teams based on who is actually willing to go to States at our club. Somehow, that usually means the better players at the club are on the team willing to travel to States. Nice how that works itself out.
 
time_fly said:
As I mentioned earlier, there was virtually no movement upward from the 3.5 level in our area for about the 5th year in a row. I talked to some very irritated guys last night who had played up at 4.0 with some success in the past year and were hoping to get bumped up. I always remind them that NTRP isn't UTR. It's not primarily about predicting who is "better." It's about grouping players into leagues that are big and stable enough to be healthy where people play competitive matches against each other. Somewhere there might be a 3.0 flight where the best singles players are bombing in 110 mph first serves and perfecting their serve-plus-one techniques. If they all have a good time and play competively against each other then the algorithm won't move them, at least not until their league is filled with enough of these caliber of players where they start beating everyone at Nationals.
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Yeah but the matches are not even competitive with these huge spreads and huge gray areas. USTA no longer even claims that matches will be competitive; they specifically disavow it. They instead want us to use the term "compatible." I think I am a low level 3.5 singles player. I will not be "competitive" with a high level 3.5 player but I will be "compatible." That means it is very unlikely I will win the match but it is not like he can completely forget to to show up and still win. A 6-1 6-1 match may not be competitive but it can be compatible.

USTA matches are much less competitive than I can choose on my own.
 
schmke said:
You often need the club/director/players to buy into an A and B team so the rosters are small enough to get everyone their matches, and the stronger players can all be on the "A" team to make their playoff run.
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I think I may try doing this with a team this year. I was going to have people that wanted to try out for the A team. They would need to agree they would travel for sectionals/state nationals and play in 2 sessions where they can play 3 sets as doubles and then we could see who won the most games of that set.

Any other advice on how to set it up so there are no hard feelings about who is on the "A" team?
 
TennisManiac said:
I have absolutely no idea how it's humanly possible. But evidently it is. During the regular season and playoffs this year I went 13-0 without dropping a set. I tossed out a total of 10 Bagels. 2 Double Bagels! And I didn't get bumped up! o_O

The following were my match scores

(40+ Singles)
6-2 6-1
6-2 6-2
6-0 6-0
6-0 6-2
6-0 6-0
6-2 6-0
6-2 6-2
6-2 6-2

(18+ Singles)
6-2 6-0
6-0 6-1
6-0 7-6
6-0 6-4

(40+ Singles District)
6-0 6-2

Here's where things went haywire. I was having leg fatigue and decided to play doubles at Sectionals.

(40+ Doubles Sectionals)
2-6 2-6
1-6 3-6
1-6 1-6

So I guess you can annihilate your opponents during the regular season and playoffs and just lose a couple of matches at Sectionals to keep your rating? :unsure:

Uhhhhhh....... o.k.
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I guess you can look forward to another year of “compatible” tennis with usta! I am always surprised when people say they join usta leagues so they can find competitive matches. My usta matches are generally not as competitive as non usta matches.
 
Moon Shooter said:
Yeah but the matches are not even competitive with these huge spreads and huge gray areas. USTA no longer even claims that matches will be competitive; they specifically disavow it. They instead want us to use the term "compatible." I think I am a low level 3.5 singles player. I will not be "competitive" with a high level 3.5 player but I will be "compatible." That means it is very unlikely I will win the match but it is not like he can completely forget to to show up and still win. A 6-1 6-1 match may not be competitive but it can be compatible.

USTA matches are much less competitive than I can choose on my own.
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That is the only explanation as to how someone in my league went from a 3.0S to a 3.5C. He won 17.2% of his games and went 0-4.
 
Moon Shooter said:
I think I may try doing this with a team this year. I was going to have people that wanted to try out for the A team. They would need to agree they would travel for sectionals/state nationals and play in 2 sessions where they can play 3 sets as doubles and then we could see who won the most games of that set.

Any other advice on how to set it up so there are no hard feelings about who is on the "A" team?
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Just be up front on why the player didn’t make the A team. In the past we have had a ladder match as tryouts. But that seemed to make it worse.
 
mpnv1990 said:
That is the only explanation as to how someone in my league went from a 3.0S to a 3.5C. He won 17.2% of his games and went 0-4.
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Usta hopes he too will enjoy another year of “compatible” tennis. I wish him luck finding a team. The 3.5 captain might have to have “the talk” with him.

Edit: A top male 3.5 is about as good as a top female 4.0. So women have 4 seperate levels dividing players from beginner to that skill level (2.5, 3.0, 3.5, and 4.0) where as males only have 2 (3.0 and 3.5).
 
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Purestriker said:
Just be up front on why the player didn’t make the A team. In the past we have had a ladder match as tryouts. But that seemed to make it worse.
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That would make sense for singles.

For doubles, it can be tough as the best teams and combinations can be hard to find unless you have ppl whove been playing together before league.
 
Roforot said:
That would make sense for singles.

For doubles, it can be tough as the best teams and combinations can be hard to find unless you have ppl whove been playing together before league.
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I was thinking of having players that wanted to get on the A team play 3 sets of doubles where you change partners each set and you add up the score. We would need to have a few such sessions depending on how many wanted to be on the team.
 
Moon Shooter said:
Usta hopes he too will enjoy another year of “compatible” tennis. I wish him luck finding a team. The 3.5 captain might have to have “the talk” with him.

Edit: A top male 3.5 is about as good as a top female 4.0. So women have 4 seperate levels dividing players from beginner to that skill level (2.5, 3.0, 3.5, and 4.0) where as males only have 2 (3.0 and 3.5).
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Is there not a 2.5 level for men?
 
Roforot said:
That would make sense for singles.

For doubles, it can be tough as the best teams and combinations can be hard to find unless you have ppl whove been playing together before league.
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We don’t have a lot of movement unless it’s to replace bumped players or ones that don’t win.
 
Moon Shooter said:
Usta hopes he too will enjoy another year of “compatible” tennis. I wish him luck finding a team. The 3.5 captain might have to have “the talk” with him.

Edit: A top male 3.5 is about as good as a top female 4.0. So women have 4 seperate levels dividing players from beginner to that skill level (2.5, 3.0, 3.5, and 4.0) where as males only have 2 (3.0 and 3.5).
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A captain had “the talk” with me years ago. I went down to 3.0, worked on my game, and would kick his ass today, ironically.
 
Biologydropout said:
Is there not a 2.5 level for men?
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There are no 2.5 men's leagues only women's leagues. Many men have the same skill as 2.5 women. It's just they are all lumped in the 3.0 league. I don't think USTA even tries to justify that. They just don't care about adult rec tennis.

edit:
Purestriker said:
Not in smaller markets.
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I guess you could put together a 2.5 league if you wanted. I suppose a section could even have sectionals. But there will not be any national events. I guess the national organization expects those 2.5 men will be "compatible" with men at the top of 3.0.
 
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Purestriker said:
Whut? But I do know a player who did this.
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I heard of one who did this. He lived in Las Vegas and CA. He was a 3.5C in Vegas during Winter and initially a 4.0S in CA during summer. The following year, he remained a 3.5C in Vegas but became a 4.0C in CA. Then, he notified the Intermountain Section of his accidental alter-ego NorCal profile, and they merged his two profiles. I was told his higher-rated profile (and rating) stuck.
 
ThinkPad said:
I heard of one who did this. He lived in Las Vegas and CA. He was a 3.5C in Vegas during Winter and initially a 4.0S in CA during summer. The following year, he remained a 3.5C in Vegas but became a 4.0C in CA. Then, he notified the Intermountain Section of his accidental alter-ego NorCal profile, and they merged his two profiles. I was told his higher-rated profile (and rating) stuck.
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I too know a Vegas player who did this .... a little different and with a SoCal address originally ... was a 4.0S, bumped down to 3.5C, new profile created as a 4.0S again, bumped again down to 3.5C and then disappeared.
Was a disaster to play mixed with ... I don't think he was 3.5, more like 3.0.
 
silverwyvern4 said:
If you have a mixed rating, then start playing women's tennis, are you immune to strikes?
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No.

If you have a 2022 year-end M rating/level, you will be required to self-rate again to begin playing Adult (men's or women's) league and you are not supposed to be able to self-rate lower than your current M level. Being self-rated, you are subject to strikes like any other self-rate.
 
Curtennis said:
Are there not many 5.0 options in Florida? I would have figured with the exception of maybe California, there’s more tennis in Florida than anywhere else in US.
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5.0 is a death sentence for USTA leagues here. A lot of 4.5's in the 40+ are just older 5.0's matriculating back in with either a medical appeal (but now I hear you need to have a doctor's note!) or just bumping down. Some of the younger guys that want to play will appeal down and it happens. Years ago we had the 4.5+ league where you could have three 5.0's; we had two 5.5's actually have their appeal granted down to our team. So we basically had a 4.5 "team" with one 5.0 and really 2 5.5's. I mean everyone knows who everyone is and if they can ball or not, so no one really cares who's rated what.
 
silverwyvern4 said:
It'd probably be most economical to hire 6 ringers who live in the Indian Wells area. Then it wouldn't cost them anything to play for your trilevel nationals team.
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The tri-level national rules are a little bit different with regards to ratings (at least they were last year). To play in the event you either need to have a C rating in the season your team qualified for nationals or a C rating at that level when the following year came out. This would make it hard to bring in 6 ringers with out a lot of prior planning. This is always an odd situation because at least in our section the rules allow you to ride A and S players to nationals.
 
silverwyvern4 said:
It'd probably be most economical to hire 6 ringers who live in the Indian Wells area. Then it wouldn't cost them anything to play for your trilevel nationals team.
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If the tri-level nationals is still held during the IW pro tournament, it shouldn't be difficult to expand your search nationally to get people to travel there for that.
 
bobbybob14 said:
The tri-level national rules are a little bit different with regards to ratings (at least they were last year). To play in the event you either need to have a C rating in the season your team qualified for nationals or a C rating at that level when the following year came out. This would make it hard to bring in 6 ringers with out a lot of prior planning. This is always an odd situation because at least in our section the rules allow you to ride A and S players to nationals.
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At least around here (in both MS and Eastern), tri-level is a fall league, so the guys who play in that league then immediately get a YE C rating, so any MS or Eastern players would be fair game as long as they gamed their rating appropriately to get the YE C rating.
 
Our LLC posted an article on the league's facebook page last week that, in short, encouraged people to not appeal their ratings and let your rating move organically. It talked about how if you got bumped up or down there's a reason and you should earn your rating.

How rich is it that 2-3 days later the LLC themself appealed their rating.
 
kevrol said:
Our LLC posted an article on the league's facebook page last week that, in short, encouraged people to not appeal their ratings and let your rating move organically. It talked about how if you got bumped up or down there's a reason and you should earn your rating.

How rich is it that 2-3 days later the LLC themself appealed their rating.
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What level is he?
 
kevrol said:
Our LLC posted an article on the league's facebook page last week that, in short, encouraged people to not appeal their ratings and let your rating move organically. It talked about how if you got bumped up or down there's a reason and you should earn your rating.

How rich is it that 2-3 days later the LLC themself appealed their rating.
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I’m waiting to see how many folks in my area appeal their level to bump up.
 
kevrol said:
How rich is it that 2-3 days later the LLC themself appealed their rating.
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+1
This makes me chuckle after reading all of the posts on this thread.

Our LLC sent out an email blast explaining the different reasons why "you should not appeal" your rating. It was funny.
 
schmke said:
So far, looks like almost 1,500 appeals down were granted and over 1,100 up.
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Ha, nice. I’m going to check a couple of guys in my area who got bumped down and we’re angry about it. Both wanted to appeal, one has never won a match at 3.5 so…
 
Creighton said:
This honestly blows my mind that 1100 people would appeal up.
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Just wrote on my blog with more details slicing the data so you can see who (gender, level) is appealing which direction. You'll see that the majority that appeal up are 2.5, 3.0, and 3.5 women.
 
schmke said:
Just wrote on my blog with more details slicing the data so you can see who (gender, level) is appealing which direction. You'll see that the majority that appeal up are 2.5, 3.0, and 3.5 women.
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For anyone else interested in this data you can see it here http://computerratings.blogspot.com/2022/12/analyzing-2022-usta-ntrp-year-end_93.html

Do you ever look back and see what the win/loss record is for these individuals? I had a hard enough time moving up this year, although I do think my new area has more distorted ratings than my old area. I can't imagine trying to play when the computer doesn't even think I'm good enough for the level.
 
Creighton said:
For anyone else interested in this data you can see it here http://computerratings.blogspot.com/2022/12/analyzing-2022-usta-ntrp-year-end_93.html

Do you ever look back and see what the win/loss record is for these individuals? I had a hard enough time moving up this year, although I do think my new area has more distorted ratings than my old area. I can't imagine trying to play when the computer doesn't even think I'm good enough for the level.
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I haven't. W/L record can be very misleading depending on players playing up or not and what level of opponent they play as well as who they play with.
 
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