The Dreaded Overhead

[zebano]

So I got to play yesterday for the first time in 3 weeks and the rust took awhile to come off. By the second set, my backhand was fine, my volleys were mostly good (I hit the tape about 5 times but that's a minor correction), but you could see the rust on my overhead from miles away. My opponent started throwing up overheads every time I came to the net (I played S&V) and I netted about 50% of them, hit one long and put the rest in at moderate pace but little angle.


Now there were two different cases. A lob with a trajectory headed for the backcourt, something like this

........*..*
...*...........*
*.......|........*

These, I was mostly able to hit. The slice/sky high lobs that fall like they've hit a vertical asymptote... those I boomed into the net.

.....*.*
...*.....*
.*........*
*.....|...*

It wasn't a question of contact, just trajectory... I plan to hit my self overheads off a wall tonight what should I focus on to fix this?


doh... HTML rips out my spaces in my diagroms... * = ball path and .= empty air

 

[mikeler]

Use your non racket hand to track those balls and they'll be much easier. Also avoid the temptation to just tap the ball over if you miss a few. Keep swinging. The overhead is the shot you should want because it gives you an opportunity to finish the point.

 

[Cindysphinx]

If I am missing the second kind of lob into the net, that happens because I am too far back behind where the ball is falling. In other words, the ball is too far in front.

What I do to fix it is make sure I am under the ball (but it is not behind me!). Often when I fail to get under the ball it is because I am in a huge hurry to hit the shot before my opponent recovers her position.

 

[Steady Eddy]

My opponent started throwing up overheads every time I came to the net (I played S&V) and I netted about 50% of them, hit one long and put the rest in at moderate pace but little angle.

That sounds like a high ratio of net: long. This is what I've noticed, most missed overheads are netted as opposed to going long. We try to 'spike' the overhead, like this is volleyball. Instead, we want the overhead to be deep. The deep overhead is harder for the opponent to return. The short, spiked, overhead, even if it goes in, isn't as effective because it has a high bounce which the opponent can return. The only good spiked overhead is the one that bounces over the fence, out of play, but it's not worth going for that. Aim deeper, not down, and right away you'll make lots of improvement.

 

[zebano]

Thanks Cindy and Eddy. I definitely do try to spike. I'll focus on hitting longer and standing closer tonight.

 

[Nellie]

The vertical is tough on timing since the ball is only in the contact zone for a fraction of a second. As mentioned above, if you are hitting into the net, you are likely too far back and should move to be further under the ball. As a general principle, I would rather hit the overhead long (more of a timing concern) than hit it into the net (more of a technique concern). Also, I am slightly unconventional, but I often bounce a high, short lob, so I can hit the ball on the bounce it is apex when it is slow moving or even still in the air.

 

[Cindysphinx]

I was in a clinic once, and the pro said something that stuck with me. He said that missing an overhead into the net is one of the biggest misses in tennis. In other words, if you miss into the net, your ball went about 30 feet from where it should have gone (!). He wasn't big on trying to spike the ball.

I'm just 5'4", and I have never spiked an overhead (out of play). I doubt I could ever manage it. So I am to just hit it as hard and well as I can (which sometimes isn't very hard and isn't very well!).

 

[Sublime]

The mistake I usually make is holding the racket up, in a trophy pose while waiting for the ball. There is unnecessary extra timing when you do that. When you first realize you're going to hit an overhead, you should get into a racket dropped position with your non-hitting hand up gauging the ball.

Like many have said, if you hit into the net, the ball was either too far out in front or had dropped too low. Since you had no problem with the loopier ones, this points to a timing issue in my opinion (you knew where to setup to hit) and hitting too late. So make sure you're in a racket dropped position, to cut down on the time between firing the overhead and contact. This will reduce your margin of error.

 

[LuxilonTimo]

Lean into overhead just keep your eye on the ball until your racquet hits it. Just keep in mind its just like a serve, just need a little more timing.

 

[Kostas]

The mistake I usually make is holding the racket up, in a trophy pose while waiting for the ball. There is unnecessary extra timing when you do that. When you first realize you're going to hit an overhead, you should get into a racket dropped position with your non-hitting hand up gauging the ball.

Eh? I'm just a 3.0 but I was under the impression that you go into "trophy" pose as soon as you know you're going to hit an overhead in order to minimize the guess-work associated with the timing.

Trying to turn an overhead into a regular serve by keeping the racquet dropped or down is actually the step that adds extra timing if you ask me.

I'm not sure but I haven't watched the FYB's vids on overheads in a while. It'd be interesting to see their take on it.

 

[Cindysphinx]

Eh? I'm just a 3.0 but I was under the impression that you go into "trophy" pose as soon as you know you're going to hit an overhead in order to minimize the guess-work associated with the timing.

That is the classic advice. I'm not a pro, but I've become a vocal opponent of this method, and I'll tell you why.

Again and again, I see my friends struggle with hitting overheads. They try so hard! As soon as the ball goes up, they point in the air and drop their racket into that trophy pose. 'Cause that is what they have been told to do.

Wrong, wrong, wrong. I cannot imagine a more awkward position for running. I mean, who moves like that? Pros don't if you watch them. If they have to cover a lot of distance for an overhead, they *move* and then set up. If you're pointing in the air, your center of gravity is all high, your balance is jacked up.

Telling people to assume this position when they are nowhere close to where they need to be to hit the shot just makes them prone to waddling backward. Failing to move backward efficiently and quickly is the source of a lot of botched overheads at my level and below, IMHO. I think this advice is why a lot of people are *more* likely to miss an overhead if they have a lot of time. 'Cause their feet get rooted when that left arm goes up and racket goes down.

My overhead improved a lot when I tossed that advice out the window and did it differently. As soon as I know I need to hit an overhead, I focus on Moving To Where I Need To Be. If I am pressed for time, I will also do that pointing stuff. But usually there is plenty of time to move into the vicinity of where you need to be and then do the point/racket drop thing.

That's my lay opinion, anyway. An opinion formed after watching *a lot* of teammates go years without developing a reliable overhead . . . .

 

[Sublime]

I agree with Cindy about not going racket drop until you are in the general area of where you need to setup. Usually this is two or three steps and I'm adjusting my grip while doing it (two hands on the racket).

Then I stand by my advice of arm up and racket drop position while doing your small adjustment steps.

Kostas... next time you hit an overhead take note of your stroke. If you start your overhead from a trophy pose, you're going to go through a racket drop position before you hit. Just set up in that position. You'll lose some power, but how much power do you need from inside the service line to hit a winner?

 

[tailofdog]

Think Different

So I got to play yesterday for the first time in 3 weeks and the rust took awhile to come off. By the second set, my backhand was fine, my volleys were mostly good (I hit the tape about 5 times but that's a minor correction), but you could see the rust on my overhead from miles away. My opponent started throwing up overheads every time I came to the net (I played S&V) and I netted about 50% of them, hit one long and put the rest in at moderate pace but little angle.


Now there were two different cases. A lob with a trajectory headed for the backcourt, something like this

........*..*
...*...........*
*.......|........*

These, I was mostly able to hit. The slice/sky high lobs that fall like they've hit a vertical asymptote... those I boomed into the net.

.....*.*
...*.....*
.*........*
*.....|...*

It wasn't a question of contact, just trajectory... I plan to hit my self overheads off a wall tonight what should I focus on to fix this?


doh... HTML rips out my spaces in my diagroms... * = ball path and .= empty air

One of the things that i was taught is to hit the overhead at an angle. It requires less pace and, most times they dont even have a chance to try to get it back.

 

[Steady Eddy]

As soon as I know I need to hit an overhead, I focus on Moving To Where I Need To Be.

This has been my experience too. I used to "get the racquet back" when I was lobbed. Then I struggled to get to the ball. My change came when I read "Levels of the Game". He describes how Ashe gets his racquet back, then moves to the ball on overheads. He also states that that is a technique pretty much unique to Ashe. I was surprised. I thought, "Not everyone does that?" Then I noticed Jack Kramer recommended just getting to the ball first. Now, not only do I hit overheads better this way, I think it's safer. I always felt that I was going to fall over while looking like the Statue of Liberty.

 

[Swissv2]

Sometimes, all it takes is practice. Spend at least 5 minutes "getting, setting, swinging" with a partner feeding as consistent as they can. Natural progression is to try to hit 5, 10, 15, 20 overheads in a row without missing.

 

[zebano]

I did 10 shots off the wall before people showed up to play yesterday. I played doubles with my partner for this weekends tournament and I only botched one overhead (it was long) in two sets so I was very happy. I made a conscience effort to step forward and be underneath the ball and that helped me hit them longer.

I did miss a couple of high forehand volleys which were almost smashes but that was because I was trying to serve & volley and didn't give myself enough time to react to the returners shot. I'll go out and practice off a wall for a number of days to try and memorize the feel of the shot.

 

[Cindysphinx]

This has been my experience too. I used to "get the racquet back" when I was lobbed. Then I struggled to get to the ball. My change came when I read "Levels of the Game". He describes how Ashe gets his racquet back, then moves to the ball on overheads. He also states that that is a technique pretty much unique to Ashe. I was surprised. I thought, "Not everyone does that?" Then I noticed Jack Kramer recommended just getting to the ball first. Now, not only do I hit overheads better this way, I think it's safer. I always felt that I was going to fall over while looking like the Statue of Liberty.

Good. Let's form a support group for people with messed up overheads. When we see them Assume The Position way too early before they have moved to the ball, we will stage interventions. In this way, we will save the planet!

 

[zebano]

Do I get a shirt that says "Saving the planet... one overhead at a time"??? =)

Thanks for the early morning cheer Cindy.

 

[Cindysphinx]

Do I get a shirt that says "Saving the planet... one overhead at a time"??? =)

Thanks for the early morning cheer Cindy.

You're welcome! I'm pleased to hear of the quick results.

Now, can you fix my forehand?

 

[Steady Eddy]

Good. Let's form a support group for people with messed up overheads. When we see them Assume The Position way too early before they have moved to the ball, we will stage interventions. In this way, we will save the planet!

They can read it on here. But if I see someone doing it on a court I wouldn't say anything. That's another tennis rule of mine, I don't give advice unless I'm asked. Especially during a set. (I don't like receiving unsolicited advice either.) Keeping my mouth shut is another way I avoid injuries on the court!

 

[Kostas]

No I was saying that I DON'T drop my racquet for an overhead. As soon as it goes up (assuming I don't have to run to the other side of the court) I extend my free arm up and take my racquet back and UP into the trophy pose (like Roddick I guess).

I had time to watch FYB and this is exactly what I do:

http://www.fuzzyyellowballs.com/video-tennis-lessons/net-play/overheads/get-sideways

I think dropping the racquet at any point for an overhead is a mistake.

 

[GuyClinch]

^^^ Yeah the first thing you want to do is get sideways. The second is for me to hit the overhead kinda like my second serve. I don't know why people "dread" overheads. its perhaps the most fun shot to hit..

 

[Sublime]

No I was saying that I DON'T drop my racquet for an overhead.

I see what you're saying, I'm saying fast forward a little bit from that position. The "racket drop" is when the racket drops behind your head / back... part of the swing to contact.

Like I said, you lose some power, but it eliminates a movement in the swing to contact, so it buys you a little more time.

 

[Cindysphinx]

^^^ Yeah the first thing you want to do is get sideways. The second is for me to hit the overhead kinda like my second serve. I don't know why people "dread" overheads. its perhaps the most fun shot to hit..

Well, yeah.

But when people teach overheads, the "sideways" part is sold as part of the point-up-hit-the-ball part. It isn't. The sideways part is part of the moving-to-the-ball part.

Hence all the backwards waddling. People are thinking about hitting, not Getting There.

 

[zebano]

^^^ Yeah the first thing you want to do is get sideways. The second is for me to hit the overhead kinda like my second serve. I don't know why people "dread" overheads. its perhaps the most fun shot to hit..

It's a blast to hit when they go in, but when you miss easy ones into the net repeatedly, it's just embarrasing and a self-perpetuating cycle.

 

[cliff]

Heres a great drill for improving your perception skills necessary for tracking lobs. Get a friend to hit lobs, whilst you track back try to catch the ball in your non playing hand (keep the hand high when you catch). A tip that helps me is focusing hard on the right side of the ball as its in the air (left side if you are a lefty), position yourself so you could catch the ball but hit it this time.
looking at a specific area whilst tracking the ball helps me keep my focus.

Good luck and practise hard its a great shot to own!

Here are some pros hitting over heads

http://www.procomparetennis.net/search/videos:all/smash

 

[Ultra2HolyGrail]

Basically you need to get good enough with the overhead to not think it's dreaded It's like volleying, if you say oh crap i need to volley chances are it won't be very good.

 

[LeeD]

To reiterate...
As soon as you see a lob, TURN SIDEWAYS, crabwalk back, don't backpeddle, unless the ball is over your backhand side, then you gotta decide the lesser of the two evils.. (backpedal yourself out of position or backhand overhead).
Racket in trophy position, wait for ball with off hand pointed at ball, or if you're good, not.
Strike the overhead as a SOFT SECOND SERVE !!!!! I cannot emphasis that enough. It's not a 125 first serve, it's a 100 mph moving ball you're trying to hit. And if you decide to slice it out wide, hit it as a SLICE second serve, maybe 75 mph. DAT'S fast enough, remember you're standing INSIDE the baseline, and the opponent doesn't have the time to react like a service return, he's really still running back into centered ready position.
Basically almost anything faster than 60 mph placed within 5' of the sidelines is enough to be a winner.

 

[GuyClinch]

But when people teach overheads, the "sideways" part is sold as part of the point-up-hit-the-ball part. It isn't. The sideways part is part of the moving-to-the-ball part.

Hence all the backwards waddling. People are thinking about hitting, not Getting There.

But I absolutely agree with you. And I know the teaching flaw your talking about. It starts with too many gimmee overheads IMHO. When it should be about the footwork for getting to overheads..like you say.

My point is that overheads aren't really a dreaded shot around tennis circles. None of my buddies "dreads" overheads. I actually don't know anyone that does except the OP. Most guys relish them because they are like an exclamation point..

Pete