+++++ The Dunlop Aerogel 4D 200 User's Group +++++

JackB1

G.O.A.T.
Can anyone tell me if the regular AG200 is similar to the 4D200? The regular one's are about half the price.
 

LeeD

Bionic Poster
AG ='s AeroGel ????
My Aero 200, 18x20 is perhaps 1/4 oz heavier than my 2 Mfil 18x20's, same strings, same grip sizing. It's also maybe 1/8" or slightly more longer.
The shop guys say if I like the heavier Aero, I'd like the 4D 18x20, but not necessarily the 4D Tour, which is 16x19, and even heavier.
I have mixed feelings and have yet to pull the trigger.
 

Power Player

Bionic Poster
LeeD, in my opinion the 4d is the best of all of them.

I owned an AG200 and currently have an m-fil 200 and the 4d. They are similar, but the 4d just has so much stability and beef to it. I can switch out between the 2, but I prefer the 4d. It just feels incredibly solid and I think you will love it.

Jack, the ag200 is similar. Hell, you can buy an m-fil or a revelation if you want and be able to switch them out. I am going to amass a little collection of 200s because I can get a Revelation from a friend that is in great shape. But the old ones will be backups and in the bag for emergency. The 4D is a more solid stick and I have 2 more coming.

If you can grab an ag200 for cheap, do it, but just think of it as depth. It's not exactly like the 4d, which has it's own feel and is a little different. IMO, you will most likely want to have a bunch if you decide to stay with this racquet.
 

JackB1

G.O.A.T.
Open Question to all 4D users.....

Anyone out there USTA rated 4.0 or less using this stick? I know it's recommended for 4.5's and above and I am a 3.5, so I know this stick may be a little over my head, but so far I am finding it pretty user friendly when you set up correctly for your shots. I would like to hear from anyone under 4.5 and did you struggle with the 4D 200 at all?
 

rudester

Professional
been doing the mad scientist routine with my AG 200 4D 16x19, silicone in the handle, lead in the hoop, it now weighs 364 grams and is 12 points head light, can't sat that i was doing much more than experimenting, but did not really like the racquet in stock condition, just too light for what i am used to. So far i have played with the customized edition of the racquet twice, the one word that first comes to mind is SOLID, the feel of the racquet now is just Solid, strung it up with full bed of cyber blue and i am just loving it, control, accuracy, plow thru, and the extra head light feature really makes it maneuverable, really quick on last second flicker shots. I think I just stumbled on one of the best racquets i have ever hit with.
 

Orion

Semi-Pro
Open Question to all 4D users.....

Anyone out there USTA rated 4.0 or less using this stick? I know it's recommended for 4.5's and above and I am a 3.5, so I know this stick may be a little over my head, but so far I am finding it pretty user friendly when you set up correctly for your shots. I would like to hear from anyone under 4.5 and did you struggle with the 4D 200 at all?
Jack-

I'm a 4.0 (haven't been playing USTA the past 3 years) but regularly play 4.5 players & 5.0 college players. I beat my first 4.5 player using the demo 4D. I find that it makes me play patient. I often found myself playing the YT RadPro like I was carrying around an AR-15 that I just had to shot a round off with. Often resulting in over playing the point and going for too much. With the 4D being a control oriented fame I feel confident that I can manage a point and don't need to go for too much. The 4D produces a solid heavy shot when you are able to unload with proper technique. I played 2 hrs of singles Sat, followed by 2 hrs of dubs. About an hour into the dubs, I was netting returns of serve when I got tired because I was cheating on technique.
 

JackB1

G.O.A.T.
Jack-

I'm a 4.0 (haven't been playing USTA the past 3 years) but regularly play 4.5 players & 5.0 college players. I beat my first 4.5 player using the demo 4D. I find that it makes me play patient. I often found myself playing the YT RadPro like I was carrying around an AR-15 that I just had to shot a round off with. Often resulting in over playing the point and going for too much. With the 4D being a control oriented fame I feel confident that I can manage a point and don't need to go for too much. The 4D produces a solid heavy shot when you are able to unload with proper technique. I played 2 hrs of singles Sat, followed by 2 hrs of dubs. About an hour into the dubs, I was netting returns of serve when I got tired because I was cheating on technique.
Orion.....since I am just a 3.5, do u think I am making things too tough on myself using this racquet? Or will I be better off in the longrun because it will force me to use proper technique? I want to keep developing my skills, but I don't want too drastic a dropoff in performance along the way.
 

JackB1

G.O.A.T.
so yours is roughly 12.34 oz with an overgrip so with out it 12.25 maybe 12.28

mine are 12.80 or 362 grams. but before modify I think mine were mid 12.00 oz
Yesterday I weighed a demo at the store and it weighed 340 grams. It still had the stock grip and Tourna overgrip and was a 4 3/8. Mine is a 4 1/2" grip
and has a Head Hydrosorb grip and Head Extremesoft Overgrip and weighs 350. Could the difference be from my choice of grip/overgrip?

I guess the only way to tell would be to weigh them both without grips/overgrips? 10 grams difference seems like a lot. I just wonder if I got a "faulty" racquet? I bought it used here in the Forums so I am stuck with it.
 

PatrickB

Rookie
Open Question to all 4D users.....

Anyone out there USTA rated 4.0 or less using this stick? I know it's recommended for 4.5's and above and I am a 3.5, so I know this stick may be a little over my head, but so far I am finding it pretty user friendly when you set up correctly for your shots. I would like to hear from anyone under 4.5 and did you struggle with the 4D 200 at all?
I'm a 3.5, use it, and love it. I started using it not long after I started working with a new teacher to develop longer, fuller strokes, and it has worked well for me in that context.
 

Power Player

Bionic Poster
Ori Or will I be better off in the longrun because it will force me to use proper technique?
Yes. This. IF you like the racquet that is. If you enjoy this racquet and love hitting with it, there is no real need to look elsewhere. Your game is not going to drop off or anything..you are thinking way too much into it. If you are going out there and hitting shots and enjoying the stick, then that is all that matters.

I have never felt an arm twinge at all, and my shoulder is good, so when it comes to arm health, I feel this is a great racquet...so you should not have to worry about that either. I havent read anyone posting about arm pains with the 4d.

At the end of the day you determine if you win the match or not. When I was coming up as a junior, I was told I had to make a few changes to my strokes. The teacher said I would suck and lose some matches for a bit, but once I got everything down, I would be a much better player in a couple months. Well, I did that, and it worked. I think this is all you need to really focus on. The rest is just way too much thinking. If you are out on the court thinking nearly as much as you do on these boards, you will never beat anyone good. You have to shut your mind off and just play. What racquet lets you do that?
 

JackB1

G.O.A.T.
Yes. This. IF you like the racquet that is. If you enjoy this racquet and love hitting with it, there is no real need to look elsewhere. Your game is not going to drop off or anything..you are thinking way too much into it. If you are going out there and hitting shots and enjoying the stick, then that is all that matters.

I have never felt an arm twinge at all, and my shoulder is good, so when it comes to arm health, I feel this is a great racquet...so you should not have to worry about that either. I havent read anyone posting about arm pains with the 4d.

At the end of the day you determine if you win the match or not. When I was coming up as a junior, I was told I had to make a few changes to my strokes. The teacher said I would suck and lose some matches for a bit, but once I got everything down, I would be a much better player in a couple months. Well, I did that, and it worked. I think this is all you need to really focus on. The rest is just way too much thinking. If you are out on the court thinking nearly as much as you do on these boards, you will never beat anyone good. You have to shut your mind off and just play. What racquet lets you do that?
Believe it or not PP, I don't think about this stuff when I play. Just all the rest of the time :) Seriously, I do really enjoy hitting with this racquet. It's funny how many times the word "solid" comes up in reviews of the AG200. It's just so true. It feels incredibly solid and gives you back exactly what you put in. I love the way it feels and the swingweight of it. I don't get the "booming" power of the Rad Pro, but it's much more of an all-around racquet than the Rad is. I play a lot of doubles and don't just hang at the baseline bashing groundstrokes all the time, so the 200 may be a better fit.

My ONLY concerns with the 200 were #1-comfort and #2-the 18x20 pattern.
I have to use it a few more times to see if the comfort is there. Sometimes it takes a few days for a racquet to rear it's ugly, tennis elbow aggravating head. And the 18x20 pattern is something I am sure I can get used to. I hit a flatter ball than most anyway, so the closed pattern may help me with that anyway.....there I go overthinking again :) Anyway...things are looking good for the AG200 :) Now what to do with all these other racquets?
 

10ACE

Professional
Yesterday I weighed a demo at the store and it weighed 340 grams. It still had the stock grip and Tourna overgrip and was a 4 3/8. Mine is a 4 1/2" grip
and has a Head Hydrosorb grip and Head Extremesoft Overgrip and weighs 350. Could the difference be from my choice of grip/overgrip?

I guess the only way to tell would be to weigh them both without grips/overgrips? 10 grams difference seems like a lot. I just wonder if I got a "faulty" racquet? I bought it used here in the Forums so I am stuck with it.
I have 3- two were spot on identical the other .10 more. I do not think much is wrong with the racquet- yes the grips and overgrip will change the weight- when I use yonex grap on one and tourna on the other that can be .10 difference
 

Deodorant

Rookie
back to the review about adding about 7grams of lead at the top of the hoop with no counter balance whatsover except 2 overgrips.

groundstrokes:
i lost some flat hitting power but love the new spin potential of the stick, the ball drops in on every shot. i can take full swings at the ball and not worry to much about the ball going out.

volleys:
became less stable since i took of the old lead setup, but still manageable since my stick weighs a little more than usual.

serves:
the best thing that happened since cup noodles for a college student. my serves were bomb proof, i loved how much more power i was getting on my kick serves. the angles were so much more intense even for the 18x20 pattern. i really think the extra lead at 12 helps thrust the ball where you want it to.

slices:
not to overwhelming, the slice dropped to low that i was netting alot of slices today. not much to say but i probably have to start slicing a little higher and earlier than usual.

overall:
the stick that craves to be a flat hitting machine just turned into a spin fanatic. im thinking about keeping this setup in mind and adding a little here and there to see if i like the tweeks or not. but overall this new lead setup for me is a keeper. the weight doesnt really alter much, it still felt very maneuverable to me.

the total weight as of now is 12.6oz but i love how hefty it is =D, very stable and more spin.
 

Ross K

Legend
Just a quick qsn... which of these frames exactly would best suit someone after lots of topspin, softer feel if poss, big b-line booming groundies and serve power?

Cheers

R.
 

Deodorant

Rookie
Just a quick qsn... which of these frames exactly would best suit someone after lots of topspin, softer feel if poss, big b-line booming groundies and serve power?

Cheers

R.
if your after spin, this isnt the frame for you, this stick was meant to be a serve and flat machine. even with the 16x19 model, its just as dense in the center of the string bed. hope ive helped.
 

Deodorant

Rookie
i was a former user of the mfil200+, played with the aerogel200 for a good 3 weeks then switched to the nsix one 95 and the kbt, got them stolen then bought a 4d200 without demoing because i got it new for 75, and respectivley it plays very well, came to a yt speed pro and switched back to the 4d200 because the speed pro was too powerful. i think the 4d200 is superior to the mfil and ag. very solid racquet.
 

Power Player

Bionic Poster
if your after spin, this isnt the frame for you, this stick was meant to be a serve and flat machine. even with the 16x19 model, its just as dense in the center of the string bed. hope ive helped.
This is not true! I don't understand this myth at all. I have hit with TW members who will vouch that I can hit with heavy spin using this racquet (18x20). I do agree with you that the 4d is superior to the M-fil and AG200, since I owned an AG and currently have an m-fil in the bag.

The 4d is what you make of it. That is the beauty of the racquet. You can hit with spin or hit flat and you will get real heavy shots. I baseline the majority of the time, but I like to dropshot people and finish at the net.

The acid test for spin is real simple for me. I have a shot that I do where I take a high bouncing ball in the air forehand side and aggressively swing over and across it right to left to cut it down. The ball if hit right is an inside out forehand that will bounce and and immediatley kick hard to the right and off the court. With the 4d, I can not only hit this shot, but I can make it kick just as hard to the side as I could with the apdc, or T-fight v02.

Spin is all technique. I firmly believe that.

Ross, I really think the 4d could be the only other stick that you need to demo if you have any doubts in the Radical Pro. It is more demanding, but if your technique is good you will hit as hard as you want on serves and gstrokes. If you are having a lazy footwork day, you will not.
 

10ACE

Professional
Can anyone tell me if the regular AG200 is similar to the 4D200? The regular one's are about half the price.
Personally I like the AG200 Better- it's more crisp and compact. The 4D200 tends to be more muted and bouncy, dampens the contact a lot more the then AG200 does.

My advice would be to pick up a AG200 for the price they're going for- this time next year the 4D200 price will have dropped, heck possible by July!

Not bashing the 4D200 just giving JackB1 an opinion
 

Orion

Semi-Pro
Orion.....since I am just a 3.5, do u think I am making things too tough on myself using this racquet? Or will I be better off in the longrun because it will force me to use proper technique? I want to keep developing my skills, but I don't want too drastic a dropoff in performance along the way.
Jack-

You'll be FINE with it. I self-rated about 5 years ago when I was living in DC after not playing for about 10 years. The only thing that separates 3.5 and 4.0 is consistency. I have my days when I know I'm playing on a 4.5 level but I don't pull it off consistently enough to claim 4.5 yet. That being said I like the confidence that the 4D inspires. My serve with the RadPro was kinda like holding my breath, there was a lack of feel if I didn't get a good flat ball in. I really prefer a closed string pattern. A good parallel is a car tire. The the 20 inch rear tires on a Vette compared to the smaller tires on a Toyota Camry. The more contact patch I have the more I feel the ball and consequently the more I can do with it. I feel the benefits most on my running crosscourt forehand. With an open pattern I am not able to generate the angle of trajectory to get the ball back cross court effectively and consistently. Even playing with OS 18x20's it's easier for me. I can attribute it to my style of stroke (long loopy), the 18x20 gives me what can be no more than split seconds of dwell time to make a shot. But it makes a noticeable difference.

Granted I'm biased towards the 4D200 but Dunlop's seem to play closest to the classic player frames of the 80's and early 90's.

You're definitely covering all the bases in your racquet search. LOL. If the 4D feels right go with it. And remember you always have the string and tension variables to tweak the frame with.
 

JackB1

G.O.A.T.
Jack-

You'll be FINE with it. I self-rated about 5 years ago when I was living in DC after not playing for about 10 years. The only thing that separates 3.5 and 4.0 is consistency. I have my days when I know I'm playing on a 4.5 level but I don't pull it off consistently enough to claim 4.5 yet. That being said I like the confidence that the 4D inspires. My serve with the RadPro was kinda like holding my breath, there was a lack of feel if I didn't get a good flat ball in. I really prefer a closed string pattern. A good parallel is a car tire. The the 20 inch rear tires on a Vette compared to the smaller tires on a Toyota Camry. The more contact patch I have the more I feel the ball and consequently the more I can do with it. I feel the benefits most on my running crosscourt forehand. With an open pattern I am not able to generate the angle of trajectory to get the ball back cross court effectively and consistently. Even playing with OS 18x20's it's easier for me. I can attribute it to my style of stroke (long loopy), the 18x20 gives me what can be no more than split seconds of dwell time to make a shot. But it makes a noticeable difference.

Granted I'm biased towards the 4D200 but Dunlop's seem to play closest to the classic player frames of the 80's and early 90's.

You're definitely covering all the bases in your racquet search. LOL. If the 4D feels right go with it. And remember you always have the string and tension variables to tweak the frame with.
Well, I decided to go with the BB11. But I could very well have gone with the 200 as well. Only difference to me, was that the BB11 felt softer and was easier on my arm after a few hours of playing. The 200 feels really SOLID and I would be my stick if I didn't have such a touch elbow. It's not "harsh" by any means, but I could feel some twinges after using the 200 that I didn't feel with the BB11. They are very similar though and I have to admit I am a little jealous of you 4D 200 users. That loud "POW" sound it makes with that super solid feel at impact, make it one nice stick indeed!
 

Power Player

Bionic Poster
Have u tried the BB11 PP?
Nope..dont want too..lol. I am not into Boris Becker at all and don't want a racquet with his silhoute all over it. I did try the Volks, which are quite similar being the same company, and while they are really nice, I am just not a huge fan.

I did dry swing the BB11 and checked it out in the store and it is definiltey similar to the 4d and rebel, but it just did not grab me.
 

JackB1

G.O.A.T.
Nope..dont want too..lol. I am not into Boris Becker at all and don't want a racquet with his silhoute all over it. I did try the Volks, which are quite similar being the same company, and while they are really nice, I am just not a huge fan.
Neither am I :)

I was just wondering, since you said they are similar. I think the BB's are also made by Volkyl, but they just have a different name.

I also think the AG200 is a great stick and we are both happy, then who cares?
 

Power Player

Bionic Poster
Well mainly, I don't want to because I am done demoing sticks. Or I would be up there grabbing the new Wilson BLX 95 and Head Youtek Prestiges.

At a certain point, I had to cut myself off...lol.
 

JackB1

G.O.A.T.
Well mainly, I don't want to because I am done demoing sticks. Or I would be up there grabbing the new Wilson BLX 95 and Head Youtek Prestiges.

At a certain point, I had to cut myself off...lol.
I hear ya :) Some days my brain just races with thoughts of new racquets and stuff. At some point you have to give yourself some peace of mind, not to mention direct your focus on your game & technique.

BTW...I am about to throw a AG 4D200 up on the F/S threads, but if anyone wants the jump on one, drop me a line (its a 4 1/2 in great shape).
 

JT Corona

Semi-Pro
i was just looking at the specs of the BB11MP again and little surprised your not finding it sluggish or heavy. this usually affects the serve most. u serving with it ok i guess must be balanced just right for you. btw havent tried the MP but i did demo the BB11 mid awhile back and it was soft and hefty.
 

JackB1

G.O.A.T.
i was just looking at the specs of the BB11MP again and little surprised your not finding it sluggish or heavy. this usually affects the serve most. u serving with it ok i guess must be balanced just right for you. btw havent tried the MP but i did demo the BB11 mid awhile back and it was soft and hefty.
It's just 340 grams static and 328 swingweight. Are u sure you weren't looking at the heavier "special edition"? The BB11 feels much lighter that the Radical Pro I had been using and also lighter than the AG 4D200. Not sluggish at all. Just the perfect weight for me to still whip it thru quickly when needed.

Midplus Specs
Head Size: 98 sq. in. / 632 sq. cm.
Length: 27 inches / 69 cm
Strung Weight: 12oz / 340g
Balance: 5pts Head Light
Swingweight: 328
Stiffness: 61
Beam Width: 20 mm Straight Beam
Composition: High Modulus Graphite w/ DNX Technology
Power Level: Low
Swing Speed: Fast
Grip Type: Sensor Plus / BB Grip
String Pattern:
18 Mains / 20 Crosses
Mains skip: 8T,10T,8H,10H
Two Piece
No shared holes
String Tension: 50-60 pounds
 

JT Corona

Semi-Pro
Thx for the clarification. I know what the rad pro and 4d200 feel like so gives me a better idea that i could probably play the BB with no problems if i so desire. i just cant trust the published specs all the time. I think for any racquet u try, u can say "no no it felt higher than that or lower." Well if i continue to hear that this stick feels like buttah then i may have to pick one up for a quick fling. cheers.
 

JackB1

G.O.A.T.
Thx for the clarification. I know what the rad pro and 4d200 feel like so gives me a better idea that i could probably play the BB with no problems if i so desire. i just cant trust the published specs all the time. I think for any racquet u try, u can say "no no it felt higher than that or lower." Well if i continue to hear that this stick feels like buttah then i may have to pick one up for a quick fling. cheers.
I know what you mean about published specs not always equalling real life feel. If you have tried the AG 4D200, the BB11 is just a touch lighter feeling.
And I can tell you, there aren't too many that feel like this.
 

Orion

Semi-Pro
Jack-

The specs on the BB look enticing. I came close to getting one from the classifieds about a year ago but I never liked Becker from his playing days and let that be my deterrent. I dry swung it in the store. I helped a friend pick out a Vokl a few years ago. I hit with it but it reminded me of the Fischer MPro 98....it was smooth but underpowered and didn't give me that much more control. If you have shoulder issues, the BB will probably be better in the long run.

4D Update:

I decided to take the PHT/Gamma syn hybrid out of my backup 4D. It never hit a sweet spot. Amazing how unresponsive it felt. I picked up my frame strung with VS/Black Magic and it was like night and day. My buddy gave me a set of Gamma Professional. Gonna try a full bed of it and see how it plays. Pretty much decided that I'm gonna keep one setup with VS/Black Magic, just trying to decide on my backup/doubles setup.
 

JackB1

G.O.A.T.
Jack-

The specs on the BB look enticing. I came close to getting one from the classifieds about a year ago but I never liked Becker from his playing days and let that be my deterrent. I dry swung it in the store. I helped a friend pick out a Vokl a few years ago. I hit with it but it reminded me of the Fischer MPro 98....it was smooth but underpowered and didn't give me that much more control. If you have shoulder issues, the BB will probably be better in the long run.
I dont find the BB11 underpowered at all. A bit more powerful than the AG200, but I have it strung with full multi @52, so it has pretty good pop.
I really love this frame and played with it for the 3rd time today and have no doubts this is my frame. Still trying to unload my AG 4200, so if anyone's interested let me know.
 

kaiser

Semi-Pro
Any experience with the 4D 200 16x19 vs the 18x20?

This thread is digressing... Any chance this newby can entice you seasoned members to return to topic? :)

First a little background: after playing only sporadically over the past 10 years or so, I'm now coming back into the game. I've played most of my tennis during the 90's when I lived Down Under, playing on grass most of the year. So given that I'm 1m96 (6'5"), it should come as no surprise that I developed a pure s&v game that was geared to getting to the net as quickly as possible and battle out the point there. In the mean time, however, we've returned to Europe and I find that I need to develop patience and consistency from the backcourt in order to survive on the red clay here. Skillwise I'm probably a 4-4.5, 1HBH, SW forehand, and apart from a dodgy knee I'm pretty fit for my 54 years...

In Oz I used to play with the Yonex SRD Tour and back in Europe I got myself a HPS6.1 95 18x20. The head pro on a tennis vacation last year suggested me to try a racket with a more open pattern to get more spin and depth from the baseline. So this winter, I started demoing what was available at my LTS...

Sofar, I've tried the PDR, PST, K95 18x20, C10 and 4D 500 Tour. Of those, I found that the 4D 500 allows me to rally most consistently from the baseline: an easy swing is enough to generate sufficient depth and spin on my shots to keep me in the rally. 'Effortless' best describes this racket for me.

But then I tried the 4D 200 18x20, and from my first shots I hit my 1HBH as well or better than ever before! I was practicing with my pro, and crosscourt, down the line, dipping angles halfway the service box: I just couldn't seem to miss my backhand! It was a great feeling, I was really swinging out and nailing the ball but felt completely in control. On my forehand, however, I had to work a little harder. I was getting good pace and spin, but compared to the 4D 500 my rally shots went much lower over the net, the spin making them dip to the court near the service line instead of the baseline. I could adjust, of course, and in fact this characteristic in the end allowed me to go full bore on my forehands with some very satisfactory results. If I was playing always indoor on carpet I wouldn't hesitate to make this my stick, but on clay I'd like a little more margin for error over the net.

In short, I think the 4D 200 18x20 definitely forces me to hit a better shot than the 4D 500 Tour, but for my basic rally shots I would like just a little more of that effortless consistency, spin and net clearance that the latter offers me, especially on the forehand side. So here then finally my question to those of you who have hit with both the 18x20 and the 16x19 (which I can't demo yet):

Could the more open string bed of the 4D 200 16x19 offer me just that extra little bit of net clearance and easy spin access over the 18x20? Could it add just a touch of that effortless rallying potential of the 4D500T? Or should I just go for the 18x20 and try to adjust my strokes to get the desired results?

I'm sorry if I was a bit long-winded, but I would very much appreciate your feed-back.

Thanks,
kaiser
 

JackB1

G.O.A.T.
Could the more open string bed of the 4D 200 16x19 offer me just that extra little bit of net clearance and easy spin access over the 18x20? Could it add just a touch of that effortless rallying potential of the 4D500T? Or should I just go for the 18x20 and try to adjust my strokes to get the desired results?

I'm sorry if I was a bit long-winded, but I would very much appreciate your feed-back.

Thanks,
kaiser
Hey Oz. I also played the 500 Tour for a while and loved it, but the high stiffness left my elbow sore most of the time. It is a great 16x19 racquet though. Similar to the Pure Drive. But for your skill level, I think the AG 200 is a more approrite racquet. I think you would benefit more in the long run by going with the 18x20. Of course at first it will seem easier to get spin with a 16x19, but you will refine your technique to learn how to harness the 18x20 and the added control will be a benefit. I have never tried the 16x19 AG200, but the consensus seems to be that the 18x20 is a superior racquet, with more plowthru and more solid all around. I know its a little lighter as well, so its not the same exact frame with just a different pattern. But you should try and demo both if you could. But if you can't, I would choose the AG200 18x20.
 

kaiser

Semi-Pro
I have never tried the 16x19 AG200, but the consensus seems to be that the 18x20 is a superior racquet, with more plowthru and more solid all around. I know its a little lighter as well, so its not the same exact frame with just a different pattern. But you should try and demo both if you could. But if you can't, I would choose the AG200 18x20.
Hey Jack, thanks for the feedback. I agree the 4D200 will probably be better for my game in the long run, and I also worry a bit about the stiffness of the 4D500T. As to the 18x20 being considered superior, I read some pretty good reviews of the 16x19 as well in this thread. In fact,the first 5-10 pages of this thread were mostly about the 16x19 and I hope some of the guys who posted then are still reading this.

There is another reason why I'm considering changing to a more open pattern. Back in my Oz days I could hit a pretty vicious reverse kicking second serve with my open patterned SRD Tour 95, especially on the grass. Since coming back to Europe, with my tight HPS6.1 I haven't been able to reproduce that serve. Now it can also be due to loss of form or perhaps clay is less ameneable to this type of serve, but I'd like to eliminate the racket/stringing pattern as a contributing factor for this lack of kick.
 

JackB1

G.O.A.T.
Hey Jack, thanks for the feedback. I agree the 4D200 will probably be better for my game in the long run, and I also worry a bit about the stiffness of the 4D500T. As to the 18x20 being considered superior, I read some pretty good reviews of the 16x19 as well in this thread. In fact,the first 5-10 pages of this thread were mostly about the 16x19 and I hope some of the guys who posted then are still reading this.

There is another reason why I'm considering changing to a more open pattern. Back in my Oz days I could hit a pretty vicious reverse kicking second serve with my open patterned SRD Tour 95, especially on the grass. Since coming back to Europe, with my tight HPS6.1 I haven't been able to reproduce that serve. Now it can also be due to loss of form or perhaps clay is less ameneable to this type of serve, but I'd like to eliminate the racket/stringing pattern as a contributing factor for this lack of kick.
If possible, get one of each and test play them for awhile. Then just sell the one you like the least. I can never tell anything from demo's anyway. I need to playtest for a couple weeks.
 
Kaiser, I recently picked up a 16x19 from one of the early contributors of this thread (gflyer) and for what is supposed to be an open pattern it is fairly tight, especially in the center of the racquet face. My wife has a couple of HPS 18x20 that I can compare it too, when I get home this evening I'll report back and let you know if the Dunlop is significantly different than what you are currently hitting with. Thanks to the terrible weather we've had lately I've only gotten a chance to hit with mine a few times, but it is a really nice stick
 

JackB1

G.O.A.T.
Kaiser, I recently picked up a 16x19 from one of the early contributors of this thread (gflyer) and for what is supposed to be an open pattern it is fairly tight, especially in the center of the racquet face. My wife has a couple of HPS 18x20 that I can compare it too, when I get home this evening I'll report back and let you know if the Dunlop is significantly different than what you are currently hitting with. Thanks to the terrible weather we've had lately I've only gotten a chance to hit with mine a few times, but it is a really nice stick
Thats a good point. People forget that the string spacing in the center of the racquet where you hit most of your shots, is all that matters, with regard to string patterns. A closed pattern on a 100" racquet may be the same spacing as a open pattern on a 95" racquet. String guage will also have an effect.

Seems like TW needs a new tool that measures the "string spacing" in say an 4" diameter circle in the middle of the racquet. That would be really helpful.
 
Thats a good point. People forget that the string spacing in the center of the racquet where you hit most of your shots, is all that matters, with regard to string patterns. A closed pattern on a 100" racquet may be the same spacing as a open pattern on a 95" racquet. String guage will also have an effect.

Seems like TW needs a new tool that measures the "string spacing" in say an 4" diameter circle in the middle of the racquet. That would be really helpful.
Very interesting idea there Jack.. I was surprised how tight the pattern was, but last time I got it on court I really enjoyed it. I know it sounds crazy but it was almost like I could "feel" the ball better. Another advantage I like of the more closed pattern is the fact that I can use non poly strings and not have to worry as much about string movement. I'm not really a string breaker and one of the main reasons I use poly in my TF 320 is because the spacing is so open that any non poly will be so far out of alignment after one shot that it just drives me insane
 

JackB1

G.O.A.T.
Very interesting idea there Jack.. I was surprised how tight the pattern was, but last time I got it on court I really enjoyed it. I know it sounds crazy but it was almost like I could "feel" the ball better. Another advantage I like of the more closed pattern is the fact that I can use non poly strings and not have to worry as much about string movement. I'm not really a string breaker and one of the main reasons I use poly in my TF 320 is because the spacing is so open that any non poly will be so far out of alignment after one shot that it just drives me insane
That 18/19 pattern on the TF sure is interesting. Personally, I would go with the AG200 myself. It's just such a solid feeling stick IMO and will take your game to the next level. And I'm not just saying that because I have one for sale :)
 

Orion

Semi-Pro
Kaiser-

Your experience sounds like my first demo withe the 4D 200. I had decided that I needed to switch from a 16x19 back to a 18x20. I have not hit with the 16X19 4D 200 but my guess is that you will compromise a bit of control moving to the open pattern. Granted, I am biased towards the 18x20 but you may be able to achieve your desired results by tweaking string type an tension. I find that a full multi offered the best control in the frame while a gut/poly hybrid allowed me to be more aggressive and generated more power.
 
Kaiser -
I compared the HPS 18x20 vs the 4D200 16x19 and the Dunlop string is spacing is slightly larger... At the center the HPS is 5/16 in. wide and 6/16 in. high. The Dunlop is 6/16 in. wide and 7/16 in. high. Not as much difference as you would think, but once you get to hit with it it may be all you're looking for.
 

JackB1

G.O.A.T.
Anyone else have a stock AG 4D200 that weighs as much as mine (347 grams) with overgrip? I am wondering if I got a defective one or not? They are supposed to be 337 strung according to TW and I think the overgrip adds maybe 5g's?
 

JackB1

G.O.A.T.
I think you said this already, but what overgrip are you using?
I did, but I only got one response. I am using Head Xtremesoft overgrip, which is very thin. It's not the overgrip. I just want to see if there is something wrong with mine?

I even replaced the replacement grip with the official Dunlop one that comes with the racquet and it went down by 3 grams (from 350), but 347g is still 10 more than
TW's specs and the overgrip weighs about 3-5 g's.
 
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