Open Question to all 4D users.....
Anyone out there USTA rated 4.0 or less using this stick? I know it's recommended for 4.5's and above and I am a 3.5, so I know this stick may be a little over my head, but so far I am finding it pretty user friendly when you set up correctly for your shots. I would like to hear from anyone under 4.5 and did you struggle with the 4D 200 at all?
Jack-
I'm a 4.0 (haven't been playing USTA the past 3 years) but regularly play 4.5 players & 5.0 college players. I beat my first 4.5 player using the demo 4D. I find that it makes me play patient. I often found myself playing the YT RadPro like I was carrying around an AR-15 that I just had to shot a round off with. Often resulting in over playing the point and going for too much. With the 4D being a control oriented fame I feel confident that I can manage a point and don't need to go for too much. The 4D produces a solid heavy shot when you are able to unload with proper technique. I played 2 hrs of singles Sat, followed by 2 hrs of dubs. About an hour into the dubs, I was netting returns of serve when I got tired because I was cheating on technique.
so yours is roughly 12.34 oz with an overgrip so with out it 12.25 maybe 12.28
mine are 12.80 or 362 grams. but before modify I think mine were mid 12.00 oz
Open Question to all 4D users.....
Anyone out there USTA rated 4.0 or less using this stick? I know it's recommended for 4.5's and above and I am a 3.5, so I know this stick may be a little over my head, but so far I am finding it pretty user friendly when you set up correctly for your shots. I would like to hear from anyone under 4.5 and did you struggle with the 4D 200 at all?
Ori Or will I be better off in the longrun because it will force me to use proper technique?
Yes. This. IF you like the racquet that is. If you enjoy this racquet and love hitting with it, there is no real need to look elsewhere. Your game is not going to drop off or anything..you are thinking way too much into it. If you are going out there and hitting shots and enjoying the stick, then that is all that matters.
I have never felt an arm twinge at all, and my shoulder is good, so when it comes to arm health, I feel this is a great racquet...so you should not have to worry about that either. I havent read anyone posting about arm pains with the 4d.
At the end of the day you determine if you win the match or not. When I was coming up as a junior, I was told I had to make a few changes to my strokes. The teacher said I would suck and lose some matches for a bit, but once I got everything down, I would be a much better player in a couple months. Well, I did that, and it worked. I think this is all you need to really focus on. The rest is just way too much thinking. If you are out on the court thinking nearly as much as you do on these boards, you will never beat anyone good. You have to shut your mind off and just play. What racquet lets you do that?
Yesterday I weighed a demo at the store and it weighed 340 grams. It still had the stock grip and Tourna overgrip and was a 4 3/8. Mine is a 4 1/2" grip
and has a Head Hydrosorb grip and Head Extremesoft Overgrip and weighs 350. Could the difference be from my choice of grip/overgrip?
I guess the only way to tell would be to weigh them both without grips/overgrips? 10 grams difference seems like a lot. I just wonder if I got a "faulty" racquet? I bought it used here in the Forums so I am stuck with it.
Just a quick qsn... which of these frames exactly would best suit someone after lots of topspin, softer feel if poss, big b-line booming groundies and serve power?
Cheers
R.
if your after spin, this isnt the frame for you, this stick was meant to be a serve and flat machine. even with the 16x19 model, its just as dense in the center of the string bed. hope ive helped.
Can anyone tell me if the regular AG200 is similar to the 4D200? The regular one's are about half the price.
A stick that seems to be VERY similar to the AG200 is the Becker 11 MP. This guy compared them here and seemed to actually like the Becker more in some respects:
http://www.tennis-warehouse.com/playtests/BREAKP07.html
Orion.....since I am just a 3.5, do u think I am making things too tough on myself using this racquet? Or will I be better off in the longrun because it will force me to use proper technique? I want to keep developing my skills, but I don't want too drastic a dropoff in performance along the way.
Jack-
You'll be FINE with it. I self-rated about 5 years ago when I was living in DC after not playing for about 10 years. The only thing that separates 3.5 and 4.0 is consistency. I have my days when I know I'm playing on a 4.5 level but I don't pull it off consistently enough to claim 4.5 yet. That being said I like the confidence that the 4D inspires. My serve with the RadPro was kinda like holding my breath, there was a lack of feel if I didn't get a good flat ball in. I really prefer a closed string pattern. A good parallel is a car tire. The the 20 inch rear tires on a Vette compared to the smaller tires on a Toyota Camry. The more contact patch I have the more I feel the ball and consequently the more I can do with it. I feel the benefits most on my running crosscourt forehand. With an open pattern I am not able to generate the angle of trajectory to get the ball back cross court effectively and consistently. Even playing with OS 18x20's it's easier for me. I can attribute it to my style of stroke (long loopy), the 18x20 gives me what can be no more than split seconds of dwell time to make a shot. But it makes a noticeable difference.
Granted I'm biased towards the 4D200 but Dunlop's seem to play closest to the classic player frames of the 80's and early 90's.
You're definitely covering all the bases in your racquet search. LOL. If the 4D feels right go with it. And remember you always have the string and tension variables to tweak the frame with.
Yeah, I would say that the Rebel, BB11 and 4d200 are pretty similar. It all comes down to personal preference.
Have u tried the BB11 PP?
Nope..dont want too..lol. I am not into Boris Becker at all and don't want a racquet with his silhoute all over it. I did try the Volks, which are quite similar being the same company, and while they are really nice, I am just not a huge fan.
Well mainly, I don't want to because I am done demoing sticks. Or I would be up there grabbing the new Wilson BLX 95 and Head Youtek Prestiges.
At a certain point, I had to cut myself off...lol.
i was just looking at the specs of the BB11MP again and little surprised your not finding it sluggish or heavy. this usually affects the serve most. u serving with it ok i guess must be balanced just right for you. btw havent tried the MP but i did demo the BB11 mid awhile back and it was soft and hefty.
Thx for the clarification. I know what the rad pro and 4d200 feel like so gives me a better idea that i could probably play the BB with no problems if i so desire. i just cant trust the published specs all the time. I think for any racquet u try, u can say "no no it felt higher than that or lower." Well if i continue to hear that this stick feels like buttah then i may have to pick one up for a quick fling. cheers.
Jack-
The specs on the BB look enticing. I came close to getting one from the classifieds about a year ago but I never liked Becker from his playing days and let that be my deterrent. I dry swung it in the store. I helped a friend pick out a Vokl a few years ago. I hit with it but it reminded me of the Fischer MPro 98....it was smooth but underpowered and didn't give me that much more control. If you have shoulder issues, the BB will probably be better in the long run.
Could the more open string bed of the 4D 200 16x19 offer me just that extra little bit of net clearance and easy spin access over the 18x20? Could it add just a touch of that effortless rallying potential of the 4D500T? Or should I just go for the 18x20 and try to adjust my strokes to get the desired results?
I'm sorry if I was a bit long-winded, but I would very much appreciate your feed-back.
Thanks,
kaiser
I have never tried the 16x19 AG200, but the consensus seems to be that the 18x20 is a superior racquet, with more plowthru and more solid all around. I know its a little lighter as well, so its not the same exact frame with just a different pattern. But you should try and demo both if you could. But if you can't, I would choose the AG200 18x20.
Hey Jack, thanks for the feedback. I agree the 4D200 will probably be better for my game in the long run, and I also worry a bit about the stiffness of the 4D500T. As to the 18x20 being considered superior, I read some pretty good reviews of the 16x19 as well in this thread. In fact,the first 5-10 pages of this thread were mostly about the 16x19 and I hope some of the guys who posted then are still reading this.
There is another reason why I'm considering changing to a more open pattern. Back in my Oz days I could hit a pretty vicious reverse kicking second serve with my open patterned SRD Tour 95, especially on the grass. Since coming back to Europe, with my tight HPS6.1 I haven't been able to reproduce that serve. Now it can also be due to loss of form or perhaps clay is less ameneable to this type of serve, but I'd like to eliminate the racket/stringing pattern as a contributing factor for this lack of kick.
Kaiser, I recently picked up a 16x19 from one of the early contributors of this thread (gflyer) and for what is supposed to be an open pattern it is fairly tight, especially in the center of the racquet face. My wife has a couple of HPS 18x20 that I can compare it too, when I get home this evening I'll report back and let you know if the Dunlop is significantly different than what you are currently hitting with. Thanks to the terrible weather we've had lately I've only gotten a chance to hit with mine a few times, but it is a really nice stick
Thats a good point. People forget that the string spacing in the center of the racquet where you hit most of your shots, is all that matters, with regard to string patterns. A closed pattern on a 100" racquet may be the same spacing as a open pattern on a 95" racquet. String guage will also have an effect.
Seems like TW needs a new tool that measures the "string spacing" in say an 4" diameter circle in the middle of the racquet. That would be really helpful.
Very interesting idea there Jack.. I was surprised how tight the pattern was, but last time I got it on court I really enjoyed it. I know it sounds crazy but it was almost like I could "feel" the ball better. Another advantage I like of the more closed pattern is the fact that I can use non poly strings and not have to worry as much about string movement. I'm not really a string breaker and one of the main reasons I use poly in my TF 320 is because the spacing is so open that any non poly will be so far out of alignment after one shot that it just drives me insane
I think you said this already, but what overgrip are you using?