The European market and the shape of the paddle

[Impetus]

I have given up hope that my shoulder will ever recover enough for me to play tennis again and I have tried pickleball a few times now. It's fun but the sound is horrible(!) and I miss some more spin in the game.

Part one - the European market

Anyway. I'm now looking for a paddle and to my surprise the European market only has access to the top brands and all the cheaper brands like Ronbus or Vatic are simply not availible here.

Is that really so or what other good and not so pricy brands exist in Europe?

Part two - shape of the paddle

I have played quite a lot of tennis, table tennis, squash and badminton in my life and even though I have only played pickleball twice I have the different shots, movement and strategies (I need to improve the slow drinking game).

The shape of the paddles baffle me, though. Most paddles are elongated (some more than other).
Why are so few of them round like we're used to in other racket sports?

The only round paddle I seem to have access to in Europe is the JOOLA Radius Pro. It seems like a good paddle but I would like to hear what people with more experience think would be a good choice - both in terms of shape, brands and specific models availible in Europe?

 

[ByeByePoly]

No idea about European paddle choices … but you don’t need a round paddle.

The paddle reviewers in the US typically divide paddles into 3 groups:

1) extended - longest
2) hybrid - splits the difference
3) standard - shortest and widest

Legal/approved paddles have to stay under 24” when adding length and width. So 16.5 x 7.5, 16.25 x 7.7, 16 x 8.

Hybrid and standard shaped paddles tend to be faster movement at the kitchen, extended power paddles more power from baseline.

Spin is decent now (not tennis decent) with carbon faces, and now some kevlar and kevlar/carbon.

If you want to really drill down on options, start here:

https://youtube.com/@PickleballStudio?si=RhK7tRRS-C2HrCap

 

[Impetus]

Not so sure about that..

Round shape = larger sweetspot, more spin, better control, more maneuverability and less power

Square and elongated
= less sweetspot, less spin, less control, less maneuverability and more reach and power

I guess thats why they round the edges more and more to see if they can get the best of the two.

 

[ByeByePoly]

Not so sure about that..

Round shape = larger sweetspot, more spin, better control, more maneuverability and less power

Square and elongated
= less sweetspot, less spin, less control, less maneuverability and more reach and power

I guess thats why they round the edges more and more to see if they can get the best of the two.

Keep in mind … leaving the land of strings and entering land of plastic cores. Also, not like racket frames. Gen 1 paddles are called “sandwich” paddles … the glued on edge guard holds everything together. The thermoformed paddles introduced in 2023 has a welded carbon edge … but again … not tennis strings and rackets. You will miss tennis rackets and strings … I do.

But regardless of what shape actually produces the best plastic core sweet spot … you won’t find many oval paddles because they aren’t popular. Living under the 24” rule … the biggest oval would be 12” radius without a handle. The shortest handle is probably 4”, so say 8” radius … 12” paddle length.

The top paddle reviewers now discuss sweet spot size and twist weight. The general consensus is the largest sweet spots are on the shorter wider square standard size paddles … and the hybrid shaped paddles that get a little wider from throat to tip (Six Zero Double Black Diamond).

There are also tradeoffs with paddles that we didn’t face with tennis. As you get better at pickleball kitchen skills decide wins and losses. You might start out with a heavier swing weight extended paddle banging from baseline and then find it’s a liability in firefights at kitchen against better players. That is what happened to me. Loved my Vatic Pro V7 8.4 oz squared tip for baseline and overheads (still do). But for me … switching to less swing weight (Vatic Pro Flash and Vatic Pro Prism Flash) significantly increased my kitchen hand speed. You wouldn’t think so … but most find out this to be true. Turns out one of the ways to reduce swing weight is to lose the square faced tips … and go with rounded tops. You lose some hitting surface (tend to hit all over face during fast reflex kitchen fire fights), and maybe lose some sweet spot, but get a less head heavy paddle.

Looking back on this year and my bag full of paddles, if I was anyone coming from tennis I would answer this question first (talking doubles):

”Is the priority improving the fastest … OR … having more fun coming from tennis”?

Here is what I mean. A tennis player most likely will enjoy the thermoformed paddles, stiffer, powerful, more spin. But playing tennis on a pickleball court loses to good rec levels with good kitchen skills. I’m retired with little interest in pickleball ratings or tournaments … I got my lifetime fix with tennis tournaments and USTA. So … there was no improvement clock … loved banging from baseline. But … if you asked me what the fastest way for a tennis player to improve is, I would tell them to buy a control paddle. I would tell them to concentrate on kitchen skills and 3rd shot drops rather than drives. My thinking is as a tennis player you already start with baseline skills, but tennis did not prepare you for the bizarre kitchen part of pickleball. You have a lot of tennis deprogramming (think volleys for example) at the kitchen.

Good luck …

 

[ByeByePoly]

Not so sure about that..

Round shape = larger sweetspot, more spin, better control, more maneuverability and less power

Square and elongated
= less sweetspot, less spin, less control, less maneuverability and more reach and power

I guess thats why they round the edges more and more to see if they can get the best of the two.

Most power: extended, thermoformed … and now throw in new Gearbox paddles

Most powerful (legal … EVA foam cores not legal):

Gearbox Pro Control Elongated Pickleball Paddle | Pickleball Warehouse

www.totalpickleball.com

Most spin: thermoformed, carbon/kevlar faces, most spin so far is this paddle:

Volair Mach 2 Forza 14 Pickleball Paddle | Pickleball Warehouse

www.totalpickleball.com

Most control: not thermoformed, shorter/wider standard size

edit: paddle thickness will matter more for soft control than shape

Highest rated control paddle at the moment:

Selkirk LUXX Control Air Epic Pickleball Paddle | Pickleball Warehouse

www.totalpickleball.com

This will give you a good paddle industry overview … Chris is as good as it gets on paddle reviews:

 

[Impetus]

I completely agree with you on where my game is atm. My opponents haven't been very good so far and I easily win with power and spin. I'm a banger and I know it
I also know it will not be sufficient on higher levels and in tennis I'm actually an all court player.

I said above in the post I have problems with dinking. That's not accurate. I can slice and top spin in the kitchen and I have the movement from badminton and squash together with the shots from table tennis. I struggle with the 3rd/4rd shot to the kitchen and to neutralize fast shots with finesse into the kitchen.

Here are the specs that I think will suit me the best:

Short handle - one handed back hand and I put my finger on the bat like in table tennis
Oval shape - for control and spin (I am willing to compromise on range and power)
Thermoformed - for power, stability and durability
Carbon - for spin and power
16 mm thickness

Do you have any suggestions?

 

[ByeByePoly]

I completely agree with you on where my game is atm. My opponents haven't been very good so far and I easily win with power and spin. I'm a banger and I know it
I also know it will not be sufficient on higher levels and in tennis I'm actually an all court player.

I said above in the post I have problems with dinking. That's not accurate. I can slice and top spin in the kitchen and I have the movement from badminton and squash together with the shots from table tennis. I struggle with the 3rd/4rd shot to the kitchen and to neutralize fast shots with finesse into the kitchen.

Here are the specs that I think will suit me the best:

Short handle - one handed back hand and I put my finger on the bat like in table tennis
Oval shape - for control and spin (I am willing to compromise on range and power)
Thermoformed - for power, stability and durability
Carbon - for spin and power
16 mm thickness

Do you have any suggestions?

What paddle are you using now?

Are you doubles only?

I have only hit extended and hybrid paddles, not the shorter standard size paddles. It sounds like you should eliminate extended, and decide between all court hybrid, or control shorter standard size.

I have watched paddle reviews for a year and haven’t seen oval shaped paddles. I would drop that requirement if you want the newer thermoformed.

 

[sureshs]

I have given up hope that my shoulder will ever recover enough for me to play tennis again and I have tried pickleball a few times now. It's fun but the sound is horrible(!) and I miss some more spin in the game.

Part one - the European market

Anyway. I'm now looking for a paddle and to my surprise the European market only has access to the top brands and all the cheaper brands like Ronbus or Vatic are simply not availible here.

Is that really so or what other good and not so pricy brands exist in Europe?

Part two - shape of the paddle

I have played quite a lot of tennis, table tennis, squash and badminton in my life and even though I have only played pickleball twice I have the different shots, movement and strategies (I need to improve the slow drinking game).

The shape of the paddles baffle me, though. Most paddles are elongated (some more than other).
Why are so few of them round like we're used to in other racket sports?

The only round paddle I seem to have access to in Europe is the JOOLA Radius Pro. It seems like a good paddle but I would like to hear what people with more experience think would be a good choice - both in terms of shape, brands and specific models availible in Europe?

Square or rectangle gives you more area within the spec limitations than circle. I think it is not feasible in other racket sports because they have a longer range of movement through the air and will become extremely aerodynamically inefficient if rectangular.

 

[ByeByePoly]

I completely agree with you on where my game is atm. My opponents haven't been very good so far and I easily win with power and spin. I'm a banger and I know it
I also know it will not be sufficient on higher levels and in tennis I'm actually an all court player.

I said above in the post I have problems with dinking. That's not accurate. I can slice and top spin in the kitchen and I have the movement from badminton and squash together with the shots from table tennis. I struggle with the 3rd/4rd shot to the kitchen and to neutralize fast shots with finesse into the kitchen.

Here are the specs that I think will suit me the best:

Short handle - one handed back hand and I put my finger on the bat like in table tennis
Oval shape - for control and spin (I am willing to compromise on range and power)
Thermoformed - for power, stability and durability
Carbon - for spin and power
16 mm thickness

Do you have any suggestions?

This is a good list (link at bottom) of top paddles by type (control, all court, power)

Braydon (Pickleball Effect) is one of the best US paddle reviewers. He plays 5.0, and at one time (maybe still) his goto paddle was Six Zero Double Black Diamond, and backup was Vatic Pro Prism Flash. The Six Zero Double Black Diamond has been one of the most popular paddles since it came out in early 2023. I hit with it for the first time recently. Played two games with it and see why it’s popular. Six Zero’s newest paddle is the Ruby with Kevlar face. It’s an Australian company … maybe you can get there paddles in Europe?

Best Pickleball Paddles for Control, Power, and All-Court in 2024

Find the best paddle for you from our 2024 Hot List that showcases the best pickleball paddles from the 100s we've tested.

pickleballeffect.com

Part of personal preference is feel. None of them are close to racket and strings, but there is a difference. I found out I prefer the stiffer end rather than soft, which is the opposite of what I expected. The Luxx Control Air feels very soft … obvious why it excels at soft game (dinks, resets) … but I don’t like that soft feel. I prefer the stiffer feel of Vatic Pro Flashes, Six Zero Double Black Diamond, and my new Hurache X.

If you put spin at the top of the list, both Volair paddles top the list. I hit a friend’s Mach 1 Forza recently and spin was effortless. Most of the paddle reviewers describe it as softer end of thermoformed paddles, but it actually felt very stiff to me. That could have been because of how light it was … I definitely would have added lead.

 

[Impetus]

It's really hard to find a short handle (OHB), gen2, Thermoformed and elongated or oval (edited) in shape.

It doesn't make it easier that Europe doesn't have access to brands like Vatic, Hurache, Volair, Mach, Neonic and Grüvn (I probably forgot some) in Europe. I can get the paddle's from US, but with transportation (2-3 weeks) and tax it doesn't pay off.

Brands like Selkirk, JOOLA, Head, Gearbox etc are availible in Europe.

I think I can get the Double Black Diamond Control (I asked Six Zero on email and await their reply). If possible I will buy it.

 

[Impetus]

I think somebody was naughty and linked to a competitor. Seems fair it was removed by the admin as the forum is for free and all Tennis Warehouse get in return is some marketing.

Anyway. I got my DBD paddle yesterday! I had no idea that the fastest transportation route from Paris, France to Copenhagen, Denmark was from Paris to Papua New Guinea to south Africa to Greenland and past London and then Copenhagen. I would like to think there must be a straither path, but I suppose they had to do something in the 12 days it took.

I played with the DBD today for the flrst time. I would love to tell you, that it was absolutely fantastic and It's the best buy of my life. The reality is I like it but I didn't feel a major difference between the DBD and the worn out $15 paddle I used the previous five times. What I mostly like is that I now have a paddle I can get used to. That part is cool. I think I expected more spin and power, but it had a good touch.

I played my first single match today. It was my sixth time playing pickleball today and I played a guy who has played Pickleball for six years. I beat him 11-3 and 11-5. That was nice but in all fairness his belly has a considerable size even though he's 15 years younger he was not on my level.

The club I play in have all level. It's cool to play with different people but It's really really great fun when all four in a match is around the same level.

I miss tennis. I miss the sound of the tennis ball, I miss the spin, the finesse and that you need to apply the proper technique. Pickleball is much more forgiving - even primitive in some sense.

But all in all I'm happy with pickleball and I will continue to play it! I really have good fun

 

[ByeByePoly]

I think somebody was naughty and linked to a competitor. Seems fair it was removed by the admin as the forum is for free and all Tennis Warehouse get in return is some marketing.

Anyway. I got my DBD paddle yesterday! I had no idea that the fastest transportation route from Paris, France to Copenhagen, Denmark was from Paris to Papua New Guinea to south Africa to Greenland and past London and then Copenhagen. I would like to think there must be a straither path, but I suppose they had to do something in the 12 days it took.

I played with the DBD today for the flrst time. I would love to tell you, that it was absolutely fantastic and It's the best buy of my life. The reality is I like it but I didn't feel a major difference between the DBD and the worn out $15 paddle I used the previous five times. What I mostly like is that I now have a paddle I can get used to. That part is cool. I think I expected more spin and power, but it had a good touch.

I played my first single match today. It was my sixth time playing pickleball today and I played a guy who has played Pickleball for six years. I beat him 11-3 and 11-5. That was nice but in all fairness his belly has a considerable size even though he's 15 years younger he was not on my level.

The club I play in have all level. It's cool to play with different people but It's really really great fun when all four in a match is around the same level.

I miss tennis. I miss the sound of the tennis ball, I miss the spin, the finesse and that you need to apply the proper technique. Pickleball is much more forgiving - even primitive in some sense.

But all in all I'm happy with pickleball and I will continue to play it! I really have good fun

I got the notice I was the naughty one … although I don’t remember the post. Sometimes in these types of paddle discussions you need to post a link for pic, specs, etc. If Total Pickleball has it, then we can post that link. If they don’t … is the policy no manufacturer or other paddle reseller link for info reasons? Not sure. Pickleball is new and I would think all discussion is good for anyone selling paddles. Some paddle reviewers have sold paddles or have an affiliation with a reseller. Is links to those paddle reviewers ok? Again … not sure. Also … I think some of the post deletion is ttw website software detection settings.

Glad you got your 6.0 DBD … it took quite a journey. Tennis players will never be satisfied with any paddle … we have experienced strings.

 

[I Dink Too Much]

BBP, Braydon also sells paddles, so I usually talk "about" him without naming his business. Total Pickleball has been good to me as a consumer; I won't compromise that trust.

Impetus, ProKennex makes a few oval paddles. Can you get those where you are? Can you order paddles through Total Pickleball?

- Dink

 

[Impetus]

BBP, Braydon also sells paddles, so I usually talk "about" him without naming his business. Total Pickleball has been good to me as a consumer; I won't compromise that trust.

Impetus, ProKennex makes a few oval paddles. Can you get those where you are? Can you order paddles through Total Pickleball?

- Dink

Yes, I did consider the ProKennex. Actually I looked a lot at them because I like the shape and the short handle, but I think the only thermoformed model they have is the Black Ace and that one is not oval in shape. I also didn't like that ProKennex is more expensive than most other brands - as a beginner in Pickleball my original budget was lower than what I ended up spending but I didn't feel like buying the most expensive.

Now I got my 6.0 DBD and I hope to get used to it. To be honest I probably imagined a bit more power and spin, but It's cool to have my own paddle now.

 

[ByeByePoly]

BBP, Braydon also sells paddles, so I usually talk "about" him without naming his business. Total Pickleball has been good to me as a consumer; I won't compromise that trust.

Impetus, ProKennex makes a few oval paddles. Can you get those where you are? Can you order paddles through Total Pickleball?

- Dink

Braydon doesn’t sell paddles anymore. The vast majority of current pickleball knowledge is youtubers / influencers / paddle reviewers / podcasts.

 

[dlam]

I come from tennis and recently tried yonnex rackets and their isometric shapes and it’s similar to the some rectangular shaped pickleball paddles.
I am used to circular or egg shaped rackets even for table tennis I am used to that shape. However I’m starting to like the rectangle/isometric design. I think the sweet spot is wider but not as sweet if you know what I mean. It gives me more options especially for the forehand to hit it at certain part of the strings.
I don’t belief in hitting at the same spot of the strings all the time in tennis and pickleball as long as it’s not on the frame