The failure of the “little 3”

T

TheNachoMan

Guest
Medvedev, Zverev, and Tsistipas are just getting worse and worse now. They are vastly inferior to the previous gen and will soon be surpassed by the younger gen of Alcaraz and Sinner. I don’t see any redemption for them. The tour is in desperate need of the far superior and more entertaining Dominic Thiem.
#epic
 
Kralingen

Kralingen

G.O.A.T.
What's so bizarre is that, from an actual playing level perspective, they have all regressed.

Zverev at Olympics/Cincy/Madrid/YEC last year was genuinely good, not just results good, I mean his FH was monstrous, held his nerve well, seemed to have a better grip on the DFs. He went DTL early and often with his BH and returned well… That level was not a myth.

Tsitsipas was excellent in Monte Carlo, split a pair of epics with Nadal (W AO, L Barcelona), and had a 61 GW% on clay last year. Fell off towards the end and had the elbow problem, but he was genuinely good on clay. That level was not a myth.

Medvedev we all saw, the crazy 22 match winstreak opening the year and the demolition of Tsits in the AO. Obviously he fell off after the crushing defeat vs. Nole but his US Open and Canada performances were genuinely good. He was in a serving zone, hitting huge off both wings, using opponents pace against them masterfully. The straight sets win was probably more due to Novak than Daniil but he destroyed everyone he saw in Flushing. I saw all 3 with my own eyes, they weren’t myths.

Obviously their level in 2021 didn’t stop Novak from nearly winning CYGS so we aren’t talking ATG level. but forget results. Just judging their play from the ground, energy, point construction & confidence were so much better.

It baffles me how these guys are somehow getting worse.
 
Tennis_Freak99

Tennis_Freak99

Legend
Kralingen said:
What's so bizarre is that, from an actual playing level perspective, they have all regressed.

Zverev at Olympics/Cincy/Madrid/YEC last year was genuinely good, not just results good, I mean his FH was monstrous, held his nerve well, seemed to have a better grip on the DFs. He went DTL early and often with his BH and returned well… That level was not a myth.

Tsitsipas was excellent in Monte Carlo, split a pair of epics with Nadal (W AO, L Barcelona), and had a 61 GW% on clay last year. Fell off towards the end and had the elbow problem, but he was genuinely good on clay. That level was not a myth.

Medvedev we all saw, the crazy 22 match winstreak opening the year and the demolition of Tsits in the AO. Obviously he fell off after the crushing defeat vs. Nole but his US Open and Canada performances were genuinely good. He was in a serving zone, hitting huge off both wings, using opponents pace against them masterfully. The straight sets win was probably more due to Novak than Daniil but he destroyed everyone he saw in Flushing. I saw all 3 with my own eyes, they weren’t myths.

Obviously their level in 2021 didn’t stop Novak from nearly winning CYGS so we aren’t talking ATG level. but forget results. Just judging their play from the ground, energy, point construction & confidence were so much better.

It baffles me how these guys are somehow getting worse.
Click to expand...
It's all Mental

1) Zverev's success was largely due to him tying some loose ends in his personal life. After losing to FAA at Wimbledon last year he went and patched things up with his ex and their child, he looked genuinely happy. Just look at the drastic drop in double faults he hit starting from Olympics he was a different player altogether.

2) Medvedev struggles on slow surfaces but I do think the crowd at Australia and the current Russia situation has affected him immensely
 
DSH

DSH

G.O.A.T.
Tennis_Freak99 said:
It's all Mental

1) Zverev's success was largely due to him tying some loose ends in his personal life. After losing to FAA at Wimbledon last year he went and patched things up with his ex and their child, he looked genuinely happy. Just look at the drastic drop in double faults he hit starting from Olympics he was a different player altogether.

2) Medvedev struggles on slow surfaces but I do think the crowd at Australia and the current Russia situation has affected him immensely
Click to expand...
And what about Tsitsipas, don't you think on clay he's one of the top four there?
:D
 
T

travlerajm

G.O.A.T.
Kralingen said:
What's so bizarre is that, from an actual playing level perspective, they have all regressed.

Zverev at Olympics/Cincy/Madrid/YEC last year was genuinely good, not just results good, I mean his FH was monstrous, held his nerve well, seemed to have a better grip on the DFs. He went DTL early and often with his BH and returned well… That level was not a myth.

Tsitsipas was excellent in Monte Carlo, split a pair of epics with Nadal (W AO, L Barcelona), and had a 61 GW% on clay last year. Fell off towards the end and had the elbow problem, but he was genuinely good on clay. That level was not a myth.

Medvedev we all saw, the crazy 22 match winstreak opening the year and the demolition of Tsits in the AO. Obviously he fell off after the crushing defeat vs. Nole but his US Open and Canada performances were genuinely good. He was in a serving zone, hitting huge off both wings, using opponents pace against them masterfully. The straight sets win was probably more due to Novak than Daniil but he destroyed everyone he saw in Flushing. I saw all 3 with my own eyes, they weren’t myths.

Obviously their level in 2021 didn’t stop Novak from nearly winning CYGS so we aren’t talking ATG level. but forget results. Just judging their play from the ground, energy, point construction & confidence were so much better.

It baffles me how these guys are somehow getting worse.
Click to expand...
It’s normal for tennis players to peak in their early 20s. There shouldn’t be anything baffling about guys starting to decline in their mid-20s.

The Big3 also peaked level-wise in their early 20s. Their results didn’t decline as much as most players only because the level of the field around them fell off a cliff.
 
Kralingen

Kralingen

G.O.A.T.
Tennis_Freak99 said:
It's all Mental

1) Zverev's success was largely due to him tying some loose ends in his personal life. After losing to FAA at Wimbledon last year he went and patched things up with his ex and their child, he looked genuinely happy. Just look at the drastic drop in double faults he hit starting from Olympics he was a different player altogether.

2) Medvedev struggles on slow surfaces but I do think the crowd at Australia and the current Russia situation has affected him immensely
Click to expand...
Definitely agree on the mental aspect being a factor, but come on, you don't just forget how to step into a FH because you're a little nervous. It's a bit more than that. Zverev's FH completely broke down and he looks rather hopeless if he isn't cruising on serve. In fact, they all struggle with adversity. Once they're broken they very, very rarely get it back in sets.

I do think that the Djokovic show took away all the pressure from them in 2021 and that helped immensely. Now all 3 have targets on their backs, their games are getting studied and figured out.

Medvedev's got to be going through a ton so I will excuse him a little. The crowd and moment got in his head big time at the AO and he hasn't recovered. But Zverev and Tsitsipas have just not recovered their confidence whatsoever. They got too cocky, got it blown out of them, so they went from believing they will waltz to finals, to not believing they can even win tournaments anymore.
 
Mustard

Mustard

Bionic Poster
Federer in 2002 could do things like win Hamburg looking brilliant, and then lose first round of both the French Open and Wimbledon and both in straight sets. He was 20 at the time. Not long after, he starts ironing out the inconsistency. You wonder if these NextGen players can do the same at some point.
 
T

travlerajm

G.O.A.T.
Kralingen said:
Definitely agree on the mental aspect being a factor, but come on, you don't just forget how to step into a FH because you're a little nervous. It's a bit more than that. Zverev's FH completely broke down and he looks rather hopeless if he isn't cruising on serve. In fact, they all struggle with adversity. Once they're broken they very, very rarely get it back in sets.

I do think that the Djokovic show took away all the pressure from them in 2021 and that helped immensely. Now all 3 have targets on their backs, their games are getting studied and figured out.

Medvedev's got to be going through a ton so I will excuse him a little. The crowd and moment got in his head big time at the AO and he hasn't recovered. But Zverev and Tsitsipas have just not recovered their confidence whatsoever. They got too cocky, got it blown out of them, so they went from believing they will waltz to finals, to not believing they can even win tournaments anymore.
Click to expand...
Zverev and Tsitsipas are known to have narcissistic personality traits. When narcissists fall, they tend to fall hard.
 
Kralingen

Kralingen

G.O.A.T.
travlerajm said:
Zverev and Tsitsipas are known to have narcissistic personality traits. When narcissists fall, they tend to fall hard.
Click to expand...
That and, they don't have any Plan B whatsoever because Daddy Z and Daddy T (sorry, Coach Z and Coach T) have stroked those egos and controlled their lives since they were about 4 years old.

If you had to write a DSM-IV entry for 'was told they would be the greatest player in the world for 15 years straight' syndrome... you could basically copy the Zverev personality, with Tsitsipas characteristics, to a T.

They live in a highly wealthy bubble with little criticism and no one to challenge them. The suggestion of them on court is that of an overgrown junior, not a real man.

If there is any positive from this it's that both may get so low that they reconsider their coaching staff. Humbling themselves and accepting a change of scenery and outside opinion could save their careers.
 
N

Nadal - GOAT

Hall of Fame
Kralingen said:
What's so bizarre is that, from an actual playing level perspective, they have all regressed.

Zverev at Olympics/Cincy/Madrid/YEC last year was genuinely good, not just results good, I mean his FH was monstrous, held his nerve well, seemed to have a better grip on the DFs. He went DTL early and often with his BH and returned well… That level was not a myth.

Tsitsipas was excellent in Monte Carlo, split a pair of epics with Nadal (W AO, L Barcelona), and had a 61 GW% on clay last year. Fell off towards the end and had the elbow problem, but he was genuinely good on clay. That level was not a myth.

Medvedev we all saw, the crazy 22 match winstreak opening the year and the demolition of Tsits in the AO. Obviously he fell off after the crushing defeat vs. Nole but his US Open and Canada performances were genuinely good. He was in a serving zone, hitting huge off both wings, using opponents pace against them masterfully. The straight sets win was probably more due to Novak than Daniil but he destroyed everyone he saw in Flushing. I saw all 3 with my own eyes, they weren’t myths.

Obviously their level in 2021 didn’t stop Novak from nearly winning CYGS so we aren’t talking ATG level. but forget results. Just judging their play from the ground, energy, point construction & confidence were so much better.

It baffles me how these guys are somehow getting worse.
Click to expand...

Totally agree. the inconsistency of Zverev and Tsitsi is astonishing. Looking at them raise their level last year, I really thought this would be the year they would start beating Novak/ Rafa regularly and becoming the frontrunners in Grand slams.
Now my hopes are pinned on the New Gen (FAA/Alcaraz/Sinner/Brooksby). Really hope they step up.
 
clayqueen

clayqueen

Talk Tennis Guru
spottishwood said:
Well, in this gen, the only decent player is Med who actually is the real one trick pony. Others are kinda meh.
Click to expand...
Med is anchored to the baseline, move him away from there and he’s lost. I don’t understand how the so-called experts keep saying he is the best hardcourt player atm that 99% of players can’t beat him on hardcourt. Even making him an outright favourite against a player like Monfils was a stretch.
 
N

Nadal - GOAT

Hall of Fame
clayqueen said:
Med is anchored to the baseline, move him away from there and he’s lost. I don’t understand how the so-called experts keep saying he is the best hardcourt player atm that 99% of players can’t beat him on hardcourt. Even making him an outright favourite against a player like Monfils was a stretch.
Click to expand...
True. I think Rafa really exposed his weakness in AO. So did FAA. He was dominant last year but this year other players are starting to figure him out.
Monfils for instance used the underarm serve very well against him. Standing so back behind baseline will have its drawbacks.
If he doesn't add some variety in his game in coming months, I feel he will be even more beatable by US open.
 
spottishwood

spottishwood

Hall of Fame
clayqueen said:
Med is anchored to the baseline, move him away from there and he’s lost. I don’t understand how the so-called experts keep saying he is the best hardcourt player atm that 99% of players can’t beat him on hardcourt. Even making him an outright favourite against a player like Monfils was a stretch.
Click to expand...
That's very true actually. The older players know how to throw variety and they make him struggle. He does well against djoko only because the latter is himself a bot kinda player. Until USO'21, I thought Tsitsi was gonna have a better career than Med.
 
Russeljones

Russeljones

Talk Tennis Guru
TheNachoMan said:
Medvedev, Zverev, and Tsistipas are just getting worse and worse now. They are vastly inferior to the previous gen and will soon be surpassed by the younger gen of Alcaraz and Sinner. I don’t see any redemption for them. The tour is in desperate need of the far superior and more entertaining Dominic Thiem.
#epic
Click to expand...
Medvedev is world #2 by virtue of being in 2 of the last major finals, winning one. Wash your mouth with soap.
 
I

insideguy

Legend
I actually sort of had hopes for Zev. I mean he looked good last year. Got hurt of course

But then someone today pointed out he had a 7 percent win rate against top 10 players in slams.:oops:
 
Fedeonic

Fedeonic

Hall of Fame
The Little Three is still far away from all of their peers, except Alcaraz.
When you have 2 major finals, 2 M1000, 1 Masters and several deep runs, which is Tsitsitsi's career up to the moment, only Danya, Sascha and Carlitos are over him right now.
That much to say, the Little Three peaked in 2021 by getting the low parts of the Top-4.
 
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