The Federer - Djokovic rivalry is underrated

[TheMaestro1990]

Do you agree with that statement?

I feel that this rivalry is often in the shadows of the rivalries between Federer - Nadal and Nadal - Djokovic. That's kind of remarkable really, since they've played an astonishing 45 times (23 wins for Djokovic, 22 for Federer). In Grand Slam meetings they are 9-6 to Djokovic (3-1 in finals for Djokovic).

So, how come this rivalry is seldom talked about that much? Atleast when we consider that many rate the other two rivalries extremely highly.

They also happen produce some of most mind-boggling tennis ever seen:

Discuss.

 

[Checkmate]

How on earth Djokovic leads their Wimbledon H2H ?

 

[Bukmeikara]

I think that this is the best rivalry ever. 1. Their styles are quite the opposite 2. Their matches were always evenly matched 3. They played at pretty much every event against each other 4. Most classics between them -1 Maybe Fed should have won one between Wim14 and Us 15

 

[TheMaestro1990]

How on earth Djokovic leads their Wimbledon H2H ?

Federer is old.

 

[nadalfan2013]

Federer is old.

Yeah he's old only when he loses to Djokovic in the final, but not old when he beats everyone including Murray to get there. The only old thing is the excuses.

 

[nadalfan2013]

And to answer the question, has it occurred to you that the reason why the Federer/Djokovic rivalry is underrated is because they are both boring, arrogant and not likeable? When Nadal faces either, of course it will make things more exciting cause Rafa is nice, humble and classy, not to mention his uniqueness and unmatched exciting shotmaking.

 

[TheMaestro1990]

Yeah he's old only when he loses to Djokovic in the final, but not old when he beats everyone including Murray to get there. The only old thing is the excuses.

He's been old when beating Murray as well. He's been playing extraordinary well for being 33 and 34 years old, but he's still not as good as he was during his prime. Pretty obvious.

 

[Krish872007]

Tennis without Nadal is utterly meaningless - surely you understand that?

 

[nadalfan2013]

He's been old when beating Murray as well. He's been playing extraordinary well for being 33 and 34 years old, but he's still not as good as he was during his prime. Pretty obvious.

Federer's problem against Nadal and Djokovic was always mental. If you can still not see this then I can't help you at this point.

 

[TheMaestro1990]

And to answer the question, has it occurred to you that the reason why the Federer/Djokovic rivalry is underrated is because they are both boring, arrogant and not likeable? When Nadal faces either, of course it will make things more exciting cause Rafa is nice, humble and classy, not to mention his uniqueness and unmatched exciting shotmaking.

No one likes Federer or Djokovic, you're right. Not even their kids like them. You should mail the ATP to tell them that all tennis fans, everywhere around the globe, only - and I mean ONLY - want to watch Rafael Nadal and no one else. Let him play against a wall. A wall can't be arrogant, no?

Btw, it's incredibly funny that you claim that Rafa is nice, humble and classy... and you act in the opposite way, all the time. I don't know if you're a one-of-a-kind-Troll without a social life... or just a clueless idiot.

 

[TheMaestro1990]

Federer's problem against Nadal and Djokovic was always mental. If you can still not see this then I can't help you at this point.

That Nadal has the mental over edge of Federer is nothing new. But Djokovic over Federer when the H2H is 23-22 and many of those losses coming when Federer is way past 30... How is that "always a mental problem"?

 

[xFedal]

No one likes Federer or Djokovic, you're right. Not even their kids like them. You should mail the ATP to tell them that all tennis fans, everywhere around the globe, only - and I mean ONLY - want to watch Rafael Nadal and no one else. Let him play against a wall. A wall can't be arrogant, no?

Btw, it's incredibly funny that you claim that Rafa is nice, humble and classy... and you act in the opposite way, all the time. I don't know if you're a one-of-a-kind-Troll without a social life... or just a clueless idiot.

Nadalfan has a very low post count however he gives the impression that its in the thousands lol.

 

[xFedal]

That Nadal has the mental over edge of Federer is nothing new. But Djokovic over Federer when the H2H is 23-22 and many of those losses coming when Federer is way past 30... How is that "always a mental problem"?

When was the last time Federer beat DJOKOVIC in a slam? Wimbledon 2012.... Nearly half a decade ago... He hasn't beaten Novak at WTF Final either.... He has many wins in lower atp500 wins though...

 

[TheMaestro1990]

When was the last time Federer beat DJOKOVIC in a slam? Wimbledon 2012.... Nearly half a decade ago... He hasn't beaten Novak at WTF Final either.... He has many wins in lower atp500 wins though...

After Wimbledon 2012, Federer didn't face Djokovic in a slam until two years later and he lost in the FIFTH set at age 32 (a month shy of 33).

No, he may not have beaten Djokovic in the WTF finals, but on the other hand, Djokovic didn't show up in those finals for 2009, 2010 and 2011 when Federer was in supreme form. How do you think a Djokovic of 31-34 year old will fare in finals vs an ATG during his prime?

Come on, a sense of objectivity isn't too much to ask for around here. Or maybe it is.

 

[xFedal]

After Wimbledon 2012, Federer didn't face Djokovic in a slam until two years later and he lost in the FIFTH set at age 32 (a month shy of 33).

No, he may not have beaten Djokovic in the WTF finals, but on the other hand, Djokovic didn't show up in those finals for 2009, 2010 and 2011 when Federer was in supreme form. How do you think a Djokovic of 31-34 year old will fare in finals vs an ATG during his prime?

Come on, a sense of objectivity isn't too much to ask for around here. Or maybe it is.

It's been a very long time since he has had a significant victory over Novak at an Important Tournament...

 

[InsideOut900]

Do you agree with that statement?

I feel that this rivalry is often in the shadows of the rivalries between Federer - Nadal and Nadal - Djokovic. That's kind of remarkable really, since they've played an astonishing 45 times (23 wins for Djokovic, 22 for Federer). In Grand Slam meetings they are 9-6 to Djokovic (3-1 in finals for Djokovic).

So, how come this rivalry is seldom talked about that much? Atleast when we consider that many rate the other two rivalries extremely highly.

They also happen produce some of most mind-boggling tennis ever seen:

Discuss.

I have said it many times that the contrast between Federer's shotmaking and Djokovic's athleticism makes up for one of the most aestetically pleasing match-ups.
On top of everything both are masters at playing with angles and taking the ball early which makes their rallies outstanding at times.
Of course their rivalry peaked at RG11 which is easily one of the best matches to watch out there IMO both levelwise and for the style contrast.

 

[TheMaestro1990]

It's been a very long time since he has had a significant victory over Novak at an Important Tournament...

Yeah, and there's nothing strange about that. Players age, younger players have advantage. The same will happen to Djokovic if he is still active when he's 33, 34 and so on.

 

[xFedal]

Yeah, and there's nothing strange about that. Players age, younger players have advantage. The same will happen to Djokovic if he is still active when he's 33, 34 and so on.

This rivalry is one sided atm... Fed can still beat Nadal at Indoors or Grass maybe? He did 2015 Basel 3-3 deciding set.

 

[DreddyTennis45]

Rafa is nice, humble and classy

You forgot beautiful

 

[Djokovic2011]

Yeah he's old only when he loses to Djokovic in the final, but not old when he beats everyone including Murray to get there. The only old thing is the excuses.

Oh he's old when he beats Murray too. But when he loses to Djokovic in a big match he suddenly ages another five years.

 

[nadalfan2013]

You forgot beautiful

That's because Nadal's beauty can't be put into words.

 

[Maestroesque]

That's because Nadal's beauty can't be put into words.

Now now, I'm sure I saw your post in another thread justifying Nadals losses due to injury, does that mean Nadal only loses when he is injured?

 

[thrust]

Novak-Roger- Great contrasting styles, never knew who would win on any surface.
Novak-Rafa- Great similar styles, one better on clay the other on hard but close matches on both
Rafa-Roger- Great contrasting styles but winner usually known before match.

 

[JoelSandwich]

That Nadal has the mental over edge of Federer is nothing new. But Djokovic over Federer when the H2H is 23-22 and many of those losses coming when Federer is way past 30... How is that "always a mental problem"?

The fact that Federer can still hang with and occasionally beat a prime Djokovic when he's in his 30's, just shows how great Federer is. Everyone keeps saying him losing to Djokovic in the slams the past two years, will destroy his legacy. I think it only enhances it, many of the matches were close, not to mention the fact that him even going that far in the Slams at his age is remarkable.

 

[Tardigrade]

It's not a rivalry; Most of Federer' big wins came against Djokovic from 07-2010, before Djokovic hit his peak. As soon as Djokovic hit his peak, Federer couldn't really hurt Djokovic outside of FO 11. Now some people might talk about Dubai and Cincy, but what they are doing is using one or two small tournaments to distract from the fact peak Djokovic has pretty much dumped on a prime Federer.

 

[tennisaddict]

It's not a rivalry; Most of Federer' big wins came against Djokovic from 07-2010, before Djokovic hit his peak. As soon as Djokovic hit his peak, Federer couldn't really hurt Djokovic outside of FO 11. Now some people might talk about Dubai and Cincy, but what they are doing is using one or two small tournaments to distract from the fact peak Djokovic has pretty much dumped on a prime Federer.

Hello, Wimb 2012 anyone ?

Fact is Fed leads BO3 since USO 10 timeframe. NOvak is only winning BO5 because he is a pusher grinder

 

[Djokovic2011]

The fact that Federer can still hang with and occasionally beat a prime Djokovic when he's in his 30's, just shows how great Federer is. Everyone keeps saying him losing to Djokovic in the slams the past two years, will destroy his legacy. I think it only enhances it, many of the matches were close, not to mention the fact that him even going that far in the Slams at his age is remarkable.

What you say is true but by the same token the fact that Federer has been capable of playing such great tennis these last couple of years means Djokovic should still be given credit for his wins over him rather than Fed fans simply saying it's because of his age.

 

[TheMaestro1990]

The fact that Federer can still hang with and occasionally beat a prime Djokovic when he's in his 30's, just shows how great Federer is. Everyone keeps saying him losing to Djokovic in the slams the past two years, will destroy his legacy. I think it only enhances it, many of the matches were close, not to mention the fact that him even going that far in the Slams at his age is remarkable.

Agree 100 %.

 

[TheMaestro1990]

What you say is true but by the same token the fact that Federer has been capable of playing such great tennis these last couple of years means Djokovic should still be given credit for his wins over him rather than Fed fans simply saying it's because of his age.

Of course Djokovic should be given credit for the wins, but to say that Federer is playing like he did during his prime is just plain stupid (not saying that you said it).

 

[nadalfan2013]

Federer himself said that in 2014-2015 he is a better player than when he was dominating about 8-10 years earlier. So is Federer a liar?

 

[junior74]

Their matches are very entertaining, mostly because of Federer´s attacking tennis - but I also like the way Djokovic plays against Federer. Very tidy defence.

Fedberg was fun, I liked those matches when Federer came in a lot, forcing Djokovic to be aggressive from the baseline. Great contrast and always high level.

I always liked the way both expressed respect for the other´s high level of tennis. That was nice.

 

[Tennis_Hands]

Federer himself said that in 2014-2015 he is a better player than when he was dominating about 8-10 years earlier. So is Federer a liar?

No, but he is delusional on this matter.

 

[Djokovic2011]

Of course Djokovic should be given credit for the wins, but to say that Federer is playing like he did during his prime is just plain stupid (not saying that you said it).

The problem with many people on here is that unless a player is defeating a peak/prime Federer, they don't believe the win should count and certainly not be given any credit which personally I find truly bizarre as well as deeply unfair. The fact is that Federer's such an extraordinary player that even defeating an 80% version of him is one hell of an achievement, especially in a Wimbledon final which for so long was his turf but sadly there are way too many Fed fans that just don't see it from this point of view.

 

[Poisoned Slice]

Federer himself said that in 2014-2015 he is a better player than when he was dominating about 8-10 years earlier. So is Federer a liar?

Yes, of course he is a liar. He can't come out and tell the truth because it will cost him sponsor money and so on.

 

[AnOctorokForDinner]

Federer himself said that in 2014-2015 he is a better player than when he was dominating about 8-10 years earlier. So is Federer a liar?

Nadal is honest about his issues - and look where it got him.
It's better to be delusional if it helps you keep the confidence to play top level tennis, than admit you're in trouble and see your game plummet further, because you don't trust your shots.

 

[AnOctorokForDinner]

The problem with many people on here is that unless a player is defeating a peak/prime Federer, they don't believe the win should count and certainly not be given any credit which personally I find truly bizarre as well as deeply unfair. The fact is that Federer's such an extraordinary player that even defeating an 80% version of him is one hell of an achievement, especially in a Wimbledon final which for so long was his turf but sadly there are way too many Fed fans that just don't see it from this point of view.

There's a fair share of Djokovic fans insisting Federer's been playing his very best, too. Both sides have quite a lot of rotten apples, face it. We just have to stick to truth and fairness in the face of lies and contempt, or something.

 

[JoelSandwich]

What you say is true but by the same token the fact that Federer has been capable of playing such great tennis these last couple of years means Djokovic should still be given credit for his wins over him rather than Fed fans simply saying it's because of his age.

Agree with that as well.

 

[Djokovic2011]

There's a fair share of Djokovic fans insisting Federer's been playing his very best, too.

As you can see, I'm not one of them.

 

[TheMaestro1990]

Federer himself said that in 2014-2015 he is a better player than when he was dominating about 8-10 years earlier. So is Federer a liar?

 

[Tardigrade]

Hello, Wimb 2012 anyone ?

Fact is Fed leads BO3 since USO 10 timeframe. NOvak is only winning BO5 because he is a pusher grinder

Djokovic wasn't doing very well at that point, he suffered a heart attack prior to the tournament, and was only recovering after Federer gave him mono.

 

[TheMaestro1990]

The problem with many people on here is that unless a player is defeating a peak/prime Federer, they don't believe the win should count and certainly not be given any credit which personally I find truly bizarre as well as deeply unfair. The fact is that Federer's such an extraordinary player that even defeating an 80% version of him is one hell of an achievement, especially in a Wimbledon final which for so long was his turf but sadly there are way too many Fed fans that just don't see it from this point of view.

I absolutely agree

 

[Phoenix1983]

Sure, Djokovic-Federer is underrated.

But that's because it's always been in the shadow of Federer-Nadal, which is arguably the most lauded rivalry of all time.

Djokovic shall always be the third wheel in a pop cultural sense (albeit he has surpassed Nadal in greatness on the tennis court).

 

[ABCD]

Djokovic-Federer is great rivalry due to genuine dislike between two players; they really don't like each other. Nadal-Federer is manufactured rivalry for (ignorant) masses.

 

[Noelan]

The problem with many people on here is that unless a player is defeating a peak/prime Federer, they don't believe the win should count and certainly not be given any credit which personally I find truly bizarre as well as deeply unfair. The fact is that Federer's such an extraordinary player that even defeating an 80% version of him is one hell of an achievement, especially in a Wimbledon final which for so long was his turf but sadly there are way too many Fed fans that just don't see it from this point of view.

It's fanboys defensive mechanism. When all excuses spent then it comes to poularity contest. (see the post above ABCDs).

 

[mike danny]

One of the all-time greatest rivalries. It's a shame they never played against each other when both were at their peaks.

 

[Druss]

How on earth Djokovic leads their Wimbledon H2H ?

That's because Djoker's victories came against relic Fed.

 

[Druss]

The reason I feel this rivalry is underrated, is because they have not played in that many major finals compared to say Federer-Nadal or Nadal-Djokovic. Too many SFs, that said they have had some amazing matches. I actually preferred this rivalry to the other two.

 

[duaneeo]

How on earth Djokovic leads their Wimbledon H2H ?

Their 3 meetings have all occurred during Djokovic's peak/prime. Nole lost in four in 2012, won in five in 2014, and won in four in 2015. If they had also met 3 times during Federer's peak/prime, the h2h would be 4-2.

 

[Druss]

Federer himself said that in 2014-2015 he is a better player than when he was dominating about 8-10 years earlier. So is Federer a liar?

Yes he is a 'liar'! What do you expect him to say, "Oh I'm too old now, I'm not moving as fast, my FH is not as deadly....blah blah" The top players would eat him alive if he did. He needs to stay positive too, just like Nadal when he keeps saying that his level is getting back there. Does that mean Nadal is a liar? What do you expect Nadal to say, "hey guys I'm playing like s^*t, that's why Brown, Fognini, Pouille et al are whipping my ass no?"

 

[duaneeo]

The Federer-Nadal rivalry is overrated, which makes it seem that the Federer-Djokovic rivalry is underrated.