Discussion in 'Tennis Tips/Instruction' started by luvforty, Dec 31, 2012.
so with a larger sample size, you have adjusted your conclusion?
yeah I am just presenting what the data is saying.... why not.
haven't changed the view that the FH is over-discussed.... but top 4 vs. top 100 is telling different story on which one is THE MOST important.... in any case it's not rallies.
I'm not saying your are wrong, so hopefully we can just comment from our
For me, while I believe the 2ond serve is very important for consistency, confidence,
and as a foundation for the 1st technique...I think the stats showing the importance
winning pts from second serves (each way), demonstrates more about how
the ground game is going. Imo most rec matches are decided by the ground game.
What is happening on 1st serve pt results tell me much more about how
dominant a persons serve can be or how good a great returner is.
If the returner is amazing like DJ, he will get a lot of 1st serves back in play and
make the server work much harder to hold and if the server is amazing like
Roddick, then he will serve many aces and svc winners for easy pts on 1st serve.
With rare exceptions like Sampras (even him to an extent too), on the second
serve pts the big svc advantage is dulled and most can rtn well enough to
get into the point. On Second serve pts we get a look at longer pts on a more
equal footing where the other strokes will decide things.
I don't think there is a person who knows tennis that does not realize that for
a pro to get to start the point with a massive overhead (1st serve) and a mulligan (2ond)
would be a huge advantage at their Serving level.
If someone didn't know or doesn't agree, please post on your opinion. I don't
see where stats did anything here but confirm what we all knew...not just me.
That said, only a vaulted few have really set themselves apart with the serve
in a major way vs their peers. Given you are already doing that if you have that
ability, I expect short of making amazing gains with your serve (rare), having a way
better than avg Fh is the next best & most attainable thing. It can be your
main rally shot and your main mid ct attack shot. Many can even cover their
Bh side extremely well with the Fh. I would never recommend a poor neglected Bh,
but I don't see any rec player getting the mileage out of their
Bh they will from the Fh or Fh improvements unless the Fh is already topped out. I've played with a few players with a much better Bh than Fh, and it was a big
problem for them. Way harder to hide your Fh than hiding your Bh.
Most rec play is dubbs, with serves coming only every 4th game and a net man
to help your efforts to hold. Watch a dubbs match and you will see 4+ Fhs for
every Bh groundstroke due to less ct to cover.
I agree, why not. Some on here won't change for anything.
Good on you.
Here is my initial comment I intended to support and I still think it was worded fine.
Please describe in details
Please desicribe in details how did you get 0.06429448
Otherwise I have to give up
not sure about the 'we all knew' part, otherwise i wouldn't have started this thread due to half the threads are on FHs...and what happened to the mid ct ball theory after charting 50 pro matches lol..
anyway, i am tired of beating that horse now... so we have reached consensus, in the pros, serve is the most important shot.
in the recs, no data.
doubles, different scope that will deserve a separate discussion
You are welcome to drop it of course, but don't understand what you find funny
about charting the details of 50+ matches. How many have you charted?
You spend the hours to chart details of over 50 pro matches, including the 5 set +
Wimbledon victory by Rafa and get back with me. I don't know what you will
see...but you will see somethings that you never realized.
And No, not a consensus. I think good servers are going to be good servers.
Really good serve coaching...enough to make a difference is sooo rare, so
mostly they are going to get it or not. But the Fh mid ct attack is an area
where many never even train enough to know what they have. Most have
not scratched the surface enough to understand when to pull the trigger or
when to play a safe.
Also, if the serve were that clearly the most important shot, Roddick would
have done even better than he did in his excellent career.
now you are talking out of both sides of mouth... and you still have contributed ZERO pieces of data.
and you just contributed one above that is in error!
So I guess data isn't everything for most of us.
why not show your data, we'll take a crack at it.
No need. We don't approach the data the same.
translation - that data aint worth a dime lol
See...good example of how you make poor assumptions and mishandle the info
Separate names with a comma.