marc45
G.O.A.T.
it was obvious yesterday, ask Thiem...your bias is blinding you....guy lost serve twice all week I think I heard?...on a clay court?...playing very well
THE final: [3] Nadal vs [4] Thiem - Barcelona Open 2017
it was obvious yesterday, ask Thiem...your bias is blinding you....guy lost serve twice all week I think I heard?...on a clay court?...playing very well
marc45
G.O.A.T.
words from Thiem...good to know he knows he has to change some things...
"He was hitting to my backhand and I couldn't really come out of it," said Thiem. "The next time I play him I have to change something. He didn't hit many unforced errors and give me any free points. It's difficult for any player in the world against him."
"I'm not used to playing two of the greatest players in two days. It was a great experience for me. It was two really good days for me and my game. It was easier for me to dominate the points yesterday, but today it was more difficult to get offensive."
"He was hitting to my backhand and I couldn't really come out of it," said Thiem. "The next time I play him I have to change something. He didn't hit many unforced errors and give me any free points. It's difficult for any player in the world against him."
"I'm not used to playing two of the greatest players in two days. It was a great experience for me. It was two really good days for me and my game. It was easier for me to dominate the points yesterday, but today it was more difficult to get offensive."
TheGhostOfAgassi
Talk Tennis Guru
Its getting close and he is better than anyone else at the moment
marc45
G.O.A.T.
Tumaini Carayol @tumcarayol
Rafael Nadal, claycourt season 2017.
https://twitter.com/tumcarayol/status/858709308929961987
Rafael Nadal, claycourt season 2017.
https://twitter.com/tumcarayol/status/858709308929961987
Meles
Bionic Poster
He's doing great. Fully up for this match and we saw through most of the first set that Thiem is no joke. If Murray gets back to full health he may be the biggest threat to Rafa as he demonstrated last year. Murray has the mobility, stamina, and defense to grind with Rafa. At this point of season its pretty easy to say Rafa is much better than 2014 Rafa. Nobody has ever really touched Rafa when he's playing well; he's just that much better on clay than anyone who has played the game.
Its hard to imagine him playing even better, but if the typical momentum continues this could be one of his best years ever on clay. What Moya has done with his serve game this year is translating to clay. An almost unbreakable Rafa is a frightening thought.
Meles
Bionic Poster
Welcome aboard.
Absolutely as top of stats littered with young guns
:Nadal 58.6% points won
Thiem 54.2%
Pouille 54.2%
Cuevas 52.5%
Djokovic 52.2%
Goffin 52.0%
ARV 51.9%
The Schwart 51.9%
Ruud 51.7%
Nishikori 51.6%
A final for Thiem and Pouille
Meles
Bionic Poster
LOL. Thiem held impressively with Nadal at his best til late in the 5th. I can't say I'm happy with what happened thereafter or can fully explain why Thiem went off the rails, but that was probably light years better than Fed on clay at the same age.Somebody seriously needs to take away your posting privileges! You are probably the worst predictor I've ever seen.
Meles
Bionic Poster
Shankster at it again:
Thiem puts up great first set. Pouille joins him in 2nd place on tour for clay court points won with resplendent tournament win in Budapest.
Meles
Bionic Poster
Sadly and strangely Nadal crushed Thiem on first serve and return for the match. I'd like to have seen where things stood after the first set...
@Gary Duane I'm not totally despondent given this first set performance by Thiem. A fresher Thiem not right off a huge match with Murray might have fared much better.
Meles
Bionic Poster
Absolutely. Thiem is perhaps shaping up into some kind of baby Nadal in that he can reliably get by most players on clay. With his win over Murray, Thiem has arrived at the top of the clay game. I hope Goffin doesn't draw Thiem ever again on clay, but Thiem still has more upside on clay whereas we've pretty much seen the best Goffin has to offer with his Djokovic win and taking Rafa to 4-2 (in reality) in that first set. Thiem's momentum should get him deep at another Masters 1000 and hopefully its Rafa again.
This is really a wonderful year on clay with Rafa in prime form again. That serve game just isn't getting broken when Rafa is playing well. Amazing after all our serve dicussions over the last few years.
WhiskeyEE
G.O.A.T.
LOL. Thiem held impressively with Nadal at his best til late in the 5th. I can't say I'm happy with what happened thereafter or can fully explain why Thiem went off the rails, but that was probably light years better than Fed on clay at the same age.
You realize Federer was 23 in 2005? He had 4 masters on clay by Thiem's current age and was the 2nd best clay courter on tour.
And the clay competition back then was far tougher than it is now.
MichaelNadal
Bionic Poster
Absolutely. Thiem is perhaps shaping up into some kind of baby Nadal in that he can reliably get by most players on clay. With his win over Murray, Thiem has arrived at the top of the clay game. I hope Goffin doesn't draw Thiem ever again on clay, but Thiem still has more upside on clay whereas we've pretty much seen the best Goffin has to offer with his Djokovic win and taking Rafa to 4-2 (in reality) in that first set. Thiem's momentum should get him deep at another Masters 1000 and hopefully its Rafa again.
I really need to know where I can find this Kool-Aid, #fuhrealz! Lol
Gary Duane
Talk Tennis Guru
I agree, and I see that officially (according to the ATP) Nadal moved from winning 80% of service games to 88% of service game on clay. That means that this changed overnight because results from Barcelona are now in there, and that is a hugely positive sign for Nadal fans.Sadly and strangely Nadal crushed Thiem on first serve and return for the match. I'd like to have seen where things stood after the first set...
@Gary Duane I'm not totally despondent given this first set performance by Thiem. A fresher Thiem not right off a huge match with Murray might have fared much better.
It is true that Rafa's competition has been easy so far, for the most part. Madrid is going to be interesting. That has been a weaker tourney for Nadal.
Meles
Bionic Poster
Hehe. You've got your supply.
Took my Tennis TV over to diehard Rafa fan's house for Barcelona final. He sez Rafa looking better than 2014.
I say Rafa's serve game may be the best he's had with Moya's excellent coaching. He's not spring chicken, but serve dominance is exactly what Rafa needed and it will extend his career very, very nicely despite some movement loss. He's still so much better than anyone whose played the game on clay.I know you won't be counting your Rafa chickens before they've hatched, but the only thing I see stopping him is just the wrong draw (tough) and a fresh goating opponent near the end.
Meles
Bionic Poster
Great point. If Rafa wins Madrid decisively then La Decima looking 90% inevitable.
JohnnyMac Fan!
Legend
Absolutely. Thiem is perhaps shaping up into some kind of baby Nadal in that he can reliably get by most players on clay. With his win over Murray, Thiem has arrived at the top of the clay game. I hope Goffin doesn't draw Thiem ever again on clay, but Thiem still has more upside on clay whereas we've pretty much seen the best Goffin has to offer with his Djokovic win and taking Rafa to 4-2 (in reality) in that first set. Thiem's momentum should get him deep at another Masters 1000 and hopefully its Rafa again.
I can agree with plenty here but...I will point out some things that I think is hindering Thiem, and by that, I mean he will always encounter a roadblock. His tactical abilities is worse than the top guys, such as Fed, Rafa, Nole and Murray. Thiem won over Murray, but Murray is not the Murray of last year. What is affecting Murray, not sure, but when Murray is dialed in, no way current Thiem will beat him. But what am I trying to say, Thiem has great abilities, quick on the court, good striking form, a fighter. But his ability to change tactics is crucial and he is showing not to be his best ability. He can take a top guy out on an off day, but not likely on a constant basis. If you look at many of the matches of the top guys, is not that they hit the ball better, but it's about how they manage to tactically affect the opponent with the arsenal the have through planicatition and flexibility to change and find solutions on though moments. Nadal, is nowhere near as good as he was from age 19-26, but he still dominating the field, same as Roger, and Nole soon enough. Many of their matches are roller coasters, this is partly to constant adjusting of their play tactics on matches.
Thiem has the weapons to beat anyone, but he needs to put time and work on his analytical tactical plans and mental focus on tough moments. Look what happened to Rafa 2014. Most of the problems started with the mind, then of course later the physical which didn't help. Nole right now, is going through a period where his mind is not focused, hence the lack of success this year. Anyway, I could go on and on. I think you get my point.
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Tennis_Hands
Banned
Has Mustard posted in this thread yet to assure everybody that the Nadal is not back to his usual standard?
cc0509
Talk Tennis Guru
LOL. Thiem held impressively with Nadal at his best til late in the 5th. I can't say I'm happy with what happened thereafter or can fully explain why Thiem went off the rails, but that was probably light years better than Fed on clay at the same age.
Thiem is not better than Federer at anything tennis related at any age.
Meles
Bionic Poster
23/2016 SF Stuttgart Grass Dominic Thiem Roger Federer 3-6 7-6(7) 6-4 3.25 - 1.33
18/2016 R16 Rome Masters Clay Dominic Thiem Roger Federer 7-6(2) 6-4 2.35 - 1.55
cc0509
Talk Tennis Guru
23/2016 SF Stuttgart Grass Dominic Thiem Roger Federer 3-6 7-6(7) 6-4 3.25 - 1.33
18/2016 R16 Rome Masters Clay Dominic Thiem Roger Federer 7-6(2) 6-4 2.35 - 1.55
So because Thiem beat an obvious out of form Roger twice in 2016 at meaningless tune-ups that makes Thiem greater than Roger? Thiem is 23. What significant titles has he won that would make me stand up and take notice?
I stand by my opinion that a 35 year old Federer with no clay warm-ups and a Djokovic not at his best form have a better chance of beating Nadal at the FO than "I have done nothing of consequence in my career" Thiem does.
TheGhostOfAgassi
Talk Tennis Guru
Absolutely. Thiem is perhaps shaping up into some kind of baby Nadal in that he can reliably get by most players on clay. With his win over Murray, Thiem has arrived at the top of the clay game. I hope Goffin doesn't draw Thiem ever again on clay, but Thiem still has more upside on clay whereas we've pretty much seen the best Goffin has to offer with his Djokovic win and taking Rafa to 4-2 (in reality) in that first set. Thiem's momentum should get him deep at another Masters 1000 and hopefully its Rafa again.
Baby Rafa!!! How cute is that!!!!
Thiem could learn a trick or two from Rafa about keeping his head cool, maybe add some OCD stuff or something
Took my Tennis TV over to diehard Rafa fan's house for Barcelona final. He sez Rafa looking better than 2014.
I agree with your friend. Haven't seen Rafa like this since USO13. He was unbreakable there too. His BH great. If you have been following Rafa this closely its not hard to see he is there again in his mind. Rafa is a sensitive player. He is super intense and sensitive, can't think of any other player who is like him when it comes to that. He needs all this OCD stuff to keep focused. He is super reliant on confidence. 2014 he won RG but not full of confidence and the same grit as in 2013. He is now very similar to 2013 confidence wise. Hope it last until RG is over
Meles
Bionic Poster
Its a great, great thing for the tour. Hopefully we've got the crazy age gap between Fed and Kyrgios going for a while. Now on clay, perhaps Thiem and suddenly Pouille we'll get measured. These are huge age gaps so the Fedal vs NextGen is really neat. Hoping Ruud somehow can get over the hump in Munich and get himself entry to more big events. That would be crazy to see him and Rafa some before its too late. Three nice young clay courters are emerging. Sadly Zed has not joined the party, but a special group of players on clay forming before our eyes.Baby Rafa!!! How cute is that!!!!
Thiem could learn a trick or two from Rafa about keeping his head cool, maybe add some OCD stuff or something
I agree with your friend. Haven't seen Rafa like this since USO13. He was unbreakable there too. His BH great. If you have been following Rafa this closely its not hard to see he is there again in his mind. Rafa is a sensitive player. He is super intense and sensitive, can't think of any other player who is like him when it comes to that. He needs all this OCD stuff to keep focused. He is super reliant on confidence. 2014 he won RG but not full of confidence and the same grit as in 2013. He is now very similar to 2013 confidence wise. Hope it last until RG is over
TheGhostOfAgassi
Talk Tennis Guru
Seems like the nextGen and Thiem its pretty cool that Rafa is in form again on clay. A Zverev made a point of it too. Ruud w his power FH and Rafa clay match... sounds like a fun match to watch! If Ruud has an incredible day on court it could be a little tough matchup for Rafa.Its a great, great thing for the tour. Hopefully we've got the crazy age gap between Fed and Kyrgios going for a while. Now on clay, perhaps Thiem and suddenly Pouille we'll get measured. These are huge age gaps so the Fedal vs NextGen is really neat. Hoping Ruud somehow can get over the hump in Munich and get himself entry to more big events. That would be crazy to see him and Rafa some before its too late. Three nice young clay courters are emerging. Sadly Zed has not joined the party, but a special group of players on clay forming before our eyes.
racquetreligion
Hall of Fame
Im sorry but Thiems match was how long against the Muzzler?
Nadal has done better at that age in longer back to back matches
while never ending heavy training Thiem gasps for exit after 8 games!
For what Ive seen only Goffin is the next gen able to stay injury free.
Only Goffin is immune to the selfie gen era of choosing to roller coast
in the mental department at any chance their social media count is low.
As for Casper Rudd he is like a flaking nipple skin cell from Rafa
the penetration of Rudds FH vs Rafa is like a firecracker vs a H bomb
The court craft, speed and variety from Rafa would bagel Rudd
or allow 3 games at max in straight sets even on a skate rink
On clay no one is capable in Rafas current form to make a dent
except for old gasping Kohly for at least 90% of the first set at max.
Clay is shaping to be an easy barometer for judging the levels of
selfie gens and all are toddlers facing a Bull.
I would like to see Muzzler face Nadal as I believe only his counter punching
is a good match-up vs Rafas highly improved power tennis.
Nole is still in Family Nirvana so dont expect him to show up at full tilt.
Nadal has done better at that age in longer back to back matches
while never ending heavy training Thiem gasps for exit after 8 games!
For what Ive seen only Goffin is the next gen able to stay injury free.
Only Goffin is immune to the selfie gen era of choosing to roller coast
in the mental department at any chance their social media count is low.
As for Casper Rudd he is like a flaking nipple skin cell from Rafa
the penetration of Rudds FH vs Rafa is like a firecracker vs a H bomb
The court craft, speed and variety from Rafa would bagel Rudd
or allow 3 games at max in straight sets even on a skate rink
On clay no one is capable in Rafas current form to make a dent
except for old gasping Kohly for at least 90% of the first set at max.
Clay is shaping to be an easy barometer for judging the levels of
selfie gens and all are toddlers facing a Bull.
I would like to see Muzzler face Nadal as I believe only his counter punching
is a good match-up vs Rafas highly improved power tennis.
Nole is still in Family Nirvana so dont expect him to show up at full tilt.
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Meles
Bionic Poster
Really nothing unfair (though a bit Ruud
) with the above and agree on Muzzler; he's the one with a hope.A New Hope, the son of Darth Federer, Luca Claywalker has won Budapest in style and beat Rafa nicely the last time they played:
Meles
Bionic Poster
Fun being out over our skis, but Ruud beating Rafa would be like Coria going down to 16 year old Rafa. He's improving rapidly, but we are asking for miracles for him to trouble Rafa.
racquetreligion
Hall of Fame
Fun being out over our skis, but Ruud beating Rafa would be like Coria going down to 16 year old Rafa. He's improving rapidly, but we are asking for miracles for him to trouble Rafa.
Meles as much as I agree with much of what you say but Coria was a weapon when he lost to Rafa in 5, Rudd would be like the Donald vs Rafa on dirt.
in 2015 the Pou won 3 games against Rafa on clay and i expect maybe 3 more games in 2017 at most if they meet again on dirt. However Pous mentally varies and if he is strong in that department Id like to see him hurt Nadal for sure.
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Meles
Bionic Poster
I was referring to Coria beating Nadal in 2003. Ruud beating Nadal in 2017 would be an even bigger upset than Nadal at age 16 beating Coria.
Enjoy any discussion and all valid points particularly the head to head on clay. Pouille is massively improved since 2015, but that will be hard to overcome. Coria versus early Nadal.
MichaelNadal
Bionic Poster
I was referring to Coria beating Nadal in 2003. Ruud beating Nadal in 2017 would be an even bigger upset than Nadal at age 16 beating Coria.
Enjoy any discussion and all valid points particularly the head to head on clay. Pouille is massively improved since 2015, but that will be hard to overcome. Coria versus early Nadal.
I see @Meles hasn't stopped humiliating himself even after that beatdown. A "fresher" Thiem would have beaten Rafa apparently. Did you not know how "fresh" he was prior to the match before making your ludicrous (as always) prediction? But now that he has lost its apparently because he was not "fresh"? Seriously how many more excuses are you gonna make? How long are you gonna keep deluding yourself? Your rabid fanboyism has totally consumed you. Your hatred for the older guard (except Murray) is quite apparent.
Krish872007
Talk Tennis Guru
And apparently Pouille is the biggest threat to Nadal at Roland Garros LMAO
Or in the post above, "Ruud beating Nadal in 2017 would be an even bigger upset than Nadal at age 16 beating Coria"
Krish872007
Talk Tennis Guru
True, I probably didn't register it the first time. Though Ruud beating Rafa is so far-fetched, seeing as he can't beat Kohlschreiber at the moment
Gazelle
G.O.A.T.
Lance Armstrong Jr. having other ideas on clay.
Nah, Djokovic is Lance, not Nadal.
Nadal is Lance-a-lot
Meles
Bionic Poster
Haha. Its true I've long stated that Djokovic is not putting in the time to keep his game at the highest level, but you won't find me undermining his accomplishments with weakera nonsense.
I quarrel with the ludicrous weakera Fed fans for a long, long time and the egg is on their face with my enthusiasm for him at Auz 2017 and the rest of his run (see him at least as the favorite for the US Open if not Wimbledon too and have been saying so.) Of course this flys right in the face of the weakera nonsense and other mindless babble. I've been well aware of Nadal's resurgent serve game under Moya and not feeling any hatred whatsoever towards him or Fed for playing prime tennis so unexpectedly in 2017.I see this as a great transition era. It is great and historic because Fedal have come unexpectedly back from the dead this year while you have heir apparents running around on tour in the top 20. The age gap is historic and tremendous between Fedal and these players. History is being written with every match.
The fact that Fedal are beating up on the other geriatrics decisively makes it all the more interesting. The X Factor are these young players who are just getting into the start of their prime (Zverev not there yet, but his height means he should get there quicker.)The transition need not be a year long or sudden; the slower the better and the greater the transition. Everyone loved Kyrgios vs. Fed recently. Its a shame that Thiem couldn't tangle more past deep in the first set with Rafa, but plenty of time left this clay season.
I've got the drums out at fever pitch for NextGen because they will make the jump in the clay and grass season. Once North Amercian hard courts hit, I'd only rate Kyrgios as one to watch. Pouille and Zverev might do something too, but really now is the time. I'm emminently pleased that Thiem and Pouille are tied for a strong 2nd in the clay court points stats so far in 2017.
Meles
Bionic Poster
I was referring to the Coria matches in 2005 which Rafa won. Nothing wrong with that, no?
Meles
Bionic Poster
Heh don't **** in my pool.
Ruud got up 3-0 in the first set with Kohly. Plenty of clay season left and Ruud is on entry list for qualifiers for Madrid and a small chance he'll make the cut for qualies and good chance of Qualy wildcard. He played the in form defending champ in the first round and did reasonably well.
Krish872007
Talk Tennis Guru
Heh don't **** in my pool.
Well, I like the guy so I'll give you BOD there
Apun94
Hall of Fame
True but that doesnt mean hes at 2013 level
Apun94
Hall of Fame
What bias?
BeatlesFan
Bionic Poster
I agree with all of this, but does Murray have the confidence to do this? No way. He's done nothing all year and has been one of the worst #1's in history in terms of results. He earned his #1 completely, but he has done nothing to back it up, going all the way back to November, 2016. Murray can grind with Nadal until he loses the first set and goes down a break in the second. The he mentally checks out against Nadal in clay. As do 99% of other guys.
racquetreligion
Hall of Fame
Thiem can beat Nadal but not on clay or even hard courts atm maybe in another 2 years if
he cleans up his inefficient form and goes back to hitting it on the rise like he did in Brisbane 2016.
Brissy is super fast and Dominic had to change his form to suit mid way vs Cilic.
He lost a red hot Federer whos been taking it earlier for a much longer period.
However now competing with linespeople's real estate is not going to cut it
vs the cream and looks like Dominic will stay where Gasquet career has always been.
(who does the same thing to linespeople territory and hogs it like crazy)
Goffin is looking like new improved Ferrer who can win on any surface except vs the top cream
while Thiem is equal to Gasquet just stronger on opposite sides eg. Gas FH<Thiem<Gas BH
Kyrgios is a Tsonga/Monfils higher spec hybrid
Zverev is a Murray/DelPo lesser spec hybrid with massive serve
Poulle is another Dmitrov with lesser movement
Coric is a lower spec Djokovic
Rudd is a nasal hair from somewhere
On another note shouldnt officials make it harder for Nadal going for his 10th crown
and help Poulle, Tsonga and all of its incredible variety of gifted faster speed loving players
by using the fastest ball possible? Even Fed and Frog Pog Simon could probably slay gay Bull
he cleans up his inefficient form and goes back to hitting it on the rise like he did in Brisbane 2016.
Brissy is super fast and Dominic had to change his form to suit mid way vs Cilic.
He lost a red hot Federer whos been taking it earlier for a much longer period.
However now competing with linespeople's real estate is not going to cut it
vs the cream and looks like Dominic will stay where Gasquet career has always been.
(who does the same thing to linespeople territory and hogs it like crazy)
Goffin is looking like new improved Ferrer who can win on any surface except vs the top cream
while Thiem is equal to Gasquet just stronger on opposite sides eg. Gas FH<Thiem<Gas BH
Kyrgios is a Tsonga/Monfils higher spec hybrid
Zverev is a Murray/DelPo lesser spec hybrid with massive serve
Poulle is another Dmitrov with lesser movement
Coric is a lower spec Djokovic
Rudd is a nasal hair from somewhere
On another note shouldnt officials make it harder for Nadal going for his 10th crown
and help Poulle, Tsonga and all of its incredible variety of gifted faster speed loving players
by using the fastest ball possible? Even Fed and Frog Pog Simon could probably slay gay Bull
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He's doing great. Fully up for this match and we saw through most of the first set that Thiem is no joke. If Murray gets back to full health he may be the biggest threat to Rafa as he demonstrated last year. Murray has the mobility, stamina, and defense to grind with Rafa. At this point of season its pretty easy to say Rafa is much better than 2014 Rafa. Nobody has ever really touched Rafa when he's playing well; he's just that much better on clay than anyone who has played the game.
Federer in very short bursts could destroy Nadal on clay but he could never consistently keep up that level for a whole match apart from Hamburg 07 final 2 sets and Rome 06 final.
Rome 06 final was overall better but choked on key points with missing FH put aways.
RG 06 first set 6-1
Hamburg 07 bagel 3rd set
Hamburg 08 went 5-1 up
Madrid 11 first set
RG 11 went 5-2 up
Meles
Bionic Poster
I'd like to see Nadal face some tough draws in Madrid and Rome before annoiting him for RG. Time is definitely running out on Murray, but last year he went down to Nadal in Monte Carlo and then beat him in Madrid. If he's still taking it easy on his elbow then he's not winning anything.
Meles
Bionic Poster
I think Fed will dump RG. Historically taking RG and then Wimbledon back to back is almost impossible.
First event back
Stuttgart Entry List (updated May 1, 2017)
Entry deadline: May 1, 2017
Seeding: June 5, 2017
1 Federer, Roger SUI 4
2 Berdych, Tomas CZE 12
3 Dimitrov, Grigor BUL 13
4 Johnson, Steve USA 25
5 Simon, Gilles FRA 30
6 Zverev, Mischa GER 32
7 Lopez, Feliciano ESP 37
8 Troicki, Viktor SRB 38
9 Kohlschreiber, Philipp GER 39
I think Fed will dump RG. Historically taking RG and then Wimbledon back to back is almost impossible.
First event back
Stuttgart Entry List (updated May 1, 2017)
Entry deadline: May 1, 2017
Seeding: June 5, 2017
1 Federer, Roger SUI 4
2 Berdych, Tomas CZE 12
3 Dimitrov, Grigor BUL 13
4 Johnson, Steve USA 25
5 Simon, Gilles FRA 30
6 Zverev, Mischa GER 32
7 Lopez, Feliciano ESP 37
8 Troicki, Viktor SRB 38
9 Kohlschreiber, Philipp GER 39
Hasn't he confirmed he intends to play and do well?
