THE final: [3] Nadal vs [4] Thiem - Barcelona Open 2017

Who will prevail?

  • Total voters
    68
  • Poll closed .
cc0509 said:
But I'm saying it's not the same at all as Djokovic or Federer facing Nadal on clay and wouldn't be the same feeling because Thiem doesn't have their games and more importantly doesn't have their champion's mentality. As I said, Federer could step out on RG tomorrow and be a much bigger challenge vs Nadal than Thiem. Thiem is in the top ten only because the field is a disaster below the Big Four players and guys like Tsonga, Berdych and Ferrer are aging. Thiem is basically filler in the top ten.
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Gimme a break. Both Nole and Roger have struggled a lot beating Rafa on clay. How many years did it take Nole to win RG after he said rafa was beatable on clay?
 
TheGhostOfAgassi said:
Gimme a break. Both Nole and Roger have struggled a lot beating Rafa on clay. How many years did it take Nole to win RG after he said rafa was beatable on clay?
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However much they struggled in the past to beat Nadal on clay, they would both have a better shot than Thiem.
 
I thought Nadal played pretty well today, but the limitations of Thiem's game were exposed. He's poor at finishing the point inside the court for a supposed ball striker and he doesn't use angles at all. He just stands behind the baseline and aims for the lines. Since he stands so far back in the court he has to hit closer to the lines than someone like Federer since he gives his opponent extra time. He also has worse angles to work with from there.

However, he does have a pretty good serve.
 
Didn't catch the match unfortunately and was hoping Thiem might be able to push him furthest, but seems as though El Toro was zoning today and motored on to la decima #2. Felicitaciones

nadal_clay_original1.jpg
 
mike danny said:
Federer and Djokovic both pushed an even better Nadal harder than Thiem.

No disrespect to Thiem, but this is not the same Nadal Federer and Djokovic were battling against.
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this..as good as Nadal looked today, he's been at much higher levels in his prime, simply physically..speed-wise...so quite frankly, yes, disrespect to Thiem, as he should be in his prime now for clay...a lot of experience on it and against Rafa on it...for supposedly the best clay courter of the young guys...his fans have to be disappointed...I would think a coaching change is in order if this clay court season for him underwhelms..they said Nystrom was in his corner now?...idk about that pairing but I can't believe any coach was happy about that collapse in the second set (whole box was shaking their heads)...fans might say Rafa's just too good, but don't think that flies for a coach of a talented, and now experienced, player
 
Meles said:
This match probably hinges on Thiem's first serve percentage more than anything. Before Murray, Thiem was averaging close to 70% in his 4 previous matches. With that and Rafa's average play against Zeballos (game not unlike Thiem's, but much weaker), Thiem should win this match in 3 sets if he serves well.;) It could easily be 2 sets.:eek:
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Somebody seriously needs to take away your posting privileges! You are probably the worst predictor I've ever seen. :oops: Stop nerding out on stats and open your eyes!
 
TheGhostOfAgassi said:
I didn't compare their career. Only the feeling of facing Nadal on clay.
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Federer and Djokovic faced a peak/prime Nadal. Rafa beat Roger in their first 5 meetings, and beat Djokovic in their first 9 meetings on clay. The consecutive losses only made it that much more mentally difficult when facing Nadal on the surface.

Thiem is facing a Nadal who's older and whose invincibility has greatly decreased. And, Thiem was able to beat Rafa in just their second meeting on clay. Confidence is what Thiem should have been feeling in today's final, but confidence doesn't appear to be a trait among the current generation. That 2nd set meltdown was inexcusable.
 
Couldn't watch this, as this afternoon/evening me and my BF went to visit our dad(-in law) just having recovered from heart bypass surgery.
Glad to see he's doing extraordinary well at his recovery. :)

So, apparently, Thiem couldn't manage to get near to even grabbing a set against Rafa, which both Chung and Zeballos actually did have a chance at...

Congrats to Rafa, yet another final/title. 6/2 and counting!

Thiem? What happened?
 
TheMusicLover said:
Couldn't watch this, as this afternoon/evening me and my BF went to visit our dad(-in law) just having recovered from heart bypass surgery.
Glad to see he's doing extraordinary well at his recovery. :)

So, apparently, Thiem couldn't manage to get near to even grabbing a set against Rafa, which both Chung and Zeballos actually did have a chance at...

Congrats to Rafa, yet another final/title. 6/2 and counting!

Thiem? What happened?
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Rafa was ridiculously good. He is 2013ish. Try to avoid his FH, but then he will hit winners on his BH instead. Think he won all net approaches. Moves around the court like no one else. He is on everything. An absolute nightmare to face on clay. His confidence better now than in MC. He is in this zone we haven't seen for a while.
 
TheGhostOfAgassi said:
Rafa was ridiculously good. He is 2013ish. Try to avoid his FH, but then he will hit winners on his BH instead. Think he won all net approaches. Moves around the court like no one else. He is on everything. An absolute nightmare to face on clay. His confidence better now than in MC. He is in this zone we haven't seen for a while.
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Thanks!

Well, that's quite what I've been saying for a while now - Rafa is back to at least 90% of his best level.
Once again - a player just doesn't manage to reach SIX finals right from the start of the season, four of them on his worst surface, by playing 'mediocre', or even 'nowhere to his best level', as some ignorami keep on claiming.

That's just impossible, unless one indeed believes all of the other players are chumps, chimps and mugs. Which I do not. ;)
 
TheMusicLover said:
Thanks!

Well, that's quite what I've been saying for a while now - Rafa is back to at least 90% of his best level.
Once again - a player just doesn't manage to reach SIX finals right from the start of the season, four of them on his worst surface, by playing 'mediocre', or even 'nowhere to his best level', as some ignorami keep on claiming.

That's just impossible, unless one indeed believes all of the other players are chumps, chimps and mugs. Which I do not. ;)
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I think to say that he's at 90% of his old self is a stretch. Maybe he is, but we wouldn't know considering he hasn't had to play one of the big dogs on clay yet. That's what I think anyway...if he had beaten pre-Pepe Novak or in form Stan to win MC or Barca, then sure, I'd say he's back.

I am not impressed with the state of the tour right now to be honest.
 
TheMusicLover said:
Thanks!

Well, that's quite what I've been saying for a while now - Rafa is back to at least 90% of his best level.
Once again - a player just doesn't manage to reach SIX finals right from the start of the season, four of them on his worst surface, by playing 'mediocre', or even 'nowhere to his best level', as some ignorami keep on claiming.

That's just impossible, unless one indeed believes all of the other players are chumps, chimps and mugs. Which I do not. ;)
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Rafa FH and BH working and he is returning extremely well. Bet his stats for Barca better than Mc. Im normally nervous watching when I have preferences who I want to win. It was for some games exciting until Thiem has tried every trick in the book with no luck,no way Rafa will back on at any return no matter where Thiem hit it. You sense Rafa has figured his opponent out, like he is making a net and catches his prey like a spider. Reminds me very much of how he was back in the days.
 
duaneeo said:
Federer and Djokovic faced a peak/prime Nadal. Rafa beat Roger in their first 5 meetings, and beat Djokovic in their first 9 meetings on clay. The consecutive losses only made it that much more mentally difficult when facing Nadal on the surface.

Thiem is facing a Nadal who's older and whose invincibility has greatly decreased. And, Thiem was able to beat Rafa in just their second meeting on clay. Confidence is what Thiem should have been feeling in today's final, but confidence doesn't appear to be a trait among the current generation. That 2nd set meltdown was inexcusable.
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If Thiem had met Nadal on a blue clay-court, it could've been more competitive. Nadal is allergic to blue:P
I wonder if Madrid will reintroduce blue courts.
 
cc0509 said:
Somebody seriously needs to take away your posting privileges! You are probably the worst predictor I've ever seen. :oops: Stop nerding out on stats and open your eyes!
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That's always been Meles' problem. Makes a prediction and then finds stats which back their way into that prediction -- like solving a maze from the back to front. Which is the wrong way to do anything in life. You never start at the conclusion and work your way backwards. Even when scientists start at a hypothesis... their your method and data for proving (or disproving) that hypothesis is extremely well-vetted and solid.

But like you said... nobody needs stats for these kinds of predictions. Anybody who has watched five matches of Thiem's and five matches of Nadal's... knows EXACTLY where their form and abilities are. Nadal in 2 or Nadal in 3 was the obvious choice.

If someone needs stats for these kinds of predictions, then it is because their eyes disagree with their preferred outcome/bias.
 
mightyrick said:
That's always been Meles' problem. Makes a prediction and then finds stats which back their way into that prediction -- like solving a maze from the back to front. Which is the wrong way to do anything in life. You never start at the conclusion and work your way backwards. Even when scientists start at a hypothesis... their your method and data for proving (or disproving) that hypothesis is extremely well-vetted and solid.

But like you said... nobody needs stats for these kinds of predictions. Anybody who has watched five matches of Thiem's and five matches of Nadal's... knows EXACTLY where their form and abilities are. Nadal in 2 or Nadal in 3 was the obvious choice.

If someone needs stats for these kinds of predictions, then it is because their eyes disagree with their preferred outcome/bias.
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Nothing wrong with a little hope...
 
Take on match solely based on comments in this thread. Nearly a year has elapsed since Thiem got waxed by Djokovic in the RG semis: 6-2, 6-1, 6-4. Similarly mauled today against Nadal.

Unfortunate for him.
 
ruerooo said:
I think my tv is behind. Weird.
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I think TV's usually have a bit of delay. Not sure. My telly in India is often 30 seconds slower than posters here from NW Europe. Maybe there are transmission delays depending on where you are, or how many servers or satellites it is going through.
 
FedFosterWallace said:
Take on match solely based on comments in this thread. Nearly a year has elapsed since Thiem got waxed by Djokovic in the RG semis: 6-2, 6-1, 6-4. Similarly mauled today against Nadal.

Unfortunate for him.
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But I think that people expected him to evolve and take the next step. Maybe it was just hope because he was atrocious. He was almost literally breaking himself.
 
fundrazer said:
I think to say that he's at 90% of his old self is a stretch. Maybe he is, but we wouldn't know considering he hasn't had to play one of the big dogs on clay yet. That's what I think anyway...if he had beaten pre-Pepe Novak or in form Stan to win MC or Barca, then sure, I'd say he's back.

I am not impressed with the state of the tour right now to be honest.
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One of the big dogs on clay? Who could that be? Stop overhyping Djokovic on clay; he took his chances when Rafa was below par and suffering from repeated injury time outs. Before 2011, when Djokovic beat Rafa on clay in Madrid for the first time, he had hardly taken a set of Rafa in 9 tries.
 
TheGhostOfAgassi said:
Rafa was ridiculously good. He is 2013ish. Try to avoid his FH, but then he will hit winners on his BH instead. Think he won all net approaches. Moves around the court like no one else. He is on everything. An absolute nightmare to face on clay. His confidence better now than in MC. He is in this zone we haven't seen for a while.
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Lol no, he isnt 2013ish at all. 2013ish only in the sense that he struggled a bit early on in the clay season, not like when he reached RG.
His movement has declined, his serve is inferior and his FH is nowhere near the same. The only reason hes doing this great is because the field is so pathetically bad
 
Apun94 said:
Lol no, he isnt 2013ish at all. 2013ish only in the sense that he struggled a bit early on in the clay season, not like when he reached RG.
His movement has declined, his serve is inferior and his FH is nowhere near the same. The only reason hes doing this great is because the field is so pathetically bad
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But he's still mauling the players that the top players can't beat.
 
Apun94 said:
Lol no, he isnt 2013ish at all. 2013ish only in the sense that he struggled a bit early on in the clay season, not like when he reached RG.
His movement has declined, his serve is inferior and his FH is nowhere near the same. The only reason hes doing this great is because the field is so pathetically bad
Click to expand...

serve and fh were great yesterday...nothing he can do about the speed
 
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