The Full Bed Natural Gut (club?)

MixedMaster

Semi-Pro
I've been playing with gut/poly for the last couple of years and have recently been thinking of trying full gut in one of my frames just to see the difference. I have a half set of Pacific Classic 16g and KLIP Legend 16g. The only thing stopping me from doing it yet is deciding which one to put in the mains. I'm leaning toward the KLIP for the mains since I think it's probably a little more durable...... Any thoughts from anyone???
 

namja

New User
Using Pacific Classic 16 on my PS97A at 54 lbs. I only play 3 hours of doubles tennis a week, so the racquet doesn't get that much play. I hit pretty flat with just a little spin. I can easily get 50 hours of play (which I guess translates to 25 hours of singles play), which is almost 6 months since I miss a week here and there. Even after 6 months, the strings feel really great. Totally worth $35. I might go up to the Tough Gut or one of the Babolats.

I tried hybrid with synthetic gut and various polys, and I really didn't like any of the polys. I might try some multis or maybe the Ashaway MonoGut ZX 17 Pro.
 

speedysteve

Legend
Babolat VS Team is stiff compared to Classic IME.
When my classic gives up (fraying but lasting ok) I have packet of Pacific orange bull gut (premium string) to try out.
 

Uvijek Argen

Semi-Pro
Babolat VS Team is stiff compared to Classic IME.
When my classic gives up (fraying but lasting ok) I have packet of Pacific orange bull gut (premium string) to try out.
Hey Steve want to ask you. I do have sensible tennis elbow for the past 8 years. And I just have freak accident in a match doing a running squash shot and hurted big time. I being out already 2 weeks. No excuse to my racket which is soft and flexy (Dunlop 4d aerogel 200), but decide to buy 2 Prince Tour 100, similar to your exo3.
Do you think I should string it the same tension as my current rackets which is 60 pounds? (95 square inch head).
 

speedysteve

Legend
I've liked my EXO3 strung quite loosely with the Classic for arm friendliness reasons. It has also been quite cool weather and still is... helps with lower tensions.
I had to not hit out as much in the beginning but I've learnt to control it and like the extra feel I get.
I am volleying better that ever, pulling off touch and stop volleys better. I seem to have more time!?
I'm playing more BH slice too. As long as I get the bite it is very effective.

I'd go with 60 or even 62 as the tour bigger area will feel slightly looser.
If your arm is really bad, try high 50's, but be prepared to work at control a bit more.
Just tell yourself your arm loves it and you can at least play, whenever you hit a ball long :)
 

IowaGuy

Hall of Fame
For those using full-bed gut, what do you use in humid conditions as a substitute?

I'm thinking full-bed Velocity, at a few lbs lower than my full-bed gut setup. (My normal setup is full-bed 1.25 Lux gut or 1.25 Tough Gut @ 57 lbs).

Any good suggestions on a good substitute for humidity, and how much to adjust string tension for similar playability? Thanks!
 

aaron_h27

Hall of Fame
For those using full-bed gut, what do you use in humid conditions as a substitute?

I'm thinking full-bed Velocity, at a few lbs lower than my full-bed gut setup. (My normal setup is full-bed 1.25 Lux gut or 1.25 Tough Gut @ 57 lbs).

Any good suggestions on a good substitute for humidity, and how much to adjust string tension for similar playability? Thanks!

I haven't tried a ton of multi's but I liked NXT whenever I played with it in demo rackets. String 3-4 lbs lower.
 

aaron_h27

Hall of Fame
Are you guys playing with full NG right off the stringer? I don't like it right off the stringer for some reason. I like it 3-4 hours later though. Right off the stringer the strings move a lot and I feel like it sprays balls more than normal. I'm wondering if i wait 24-48 hours will that lessen this effect? Will try that next time. Also I'm gonna start stringing my crosses 2 lbs lower going forward. I don't know if coconut oil helps or not but in my opinion I feel like it helps the strings stay in place. could be placebo though. I've been putting coconut oil on after each hitting session. I went a few times without it and felt like the strings moved more than normal. Again could be placebo
 

IowaGuy

Hall of Fame
Are you guys playing with full NG right off the stringer? I don't like it right off the stringer for some reason. I like it 3-4 hours later though.

I have been letting my rackets rest for several days (or weeks) before hitting for the first time (I have several of the same racket in rotation).

That way, the tension settles in a bit before my first hit (it comes down a few pounds in the first week or so of sitting after stringing).

Then, after an hour or so of hitting/serving to break in the new gut (maybe 2-3 hours for Tough Gut), the tension seems to stay pretty consistent for the rest of the life of the string.

I test my string tension with RacquetTune. If it comes off the stringer around 57 lbs, it will usually drop to 54 lbs or so after 1-2 weeks of no hitting. Then usually another couple of pounds after my first 2 hour hit. YMMV.
 

aaron_h27

Hall of Fame
I have been letting my rackets rest for several days (or weeks) before hitting for the first time (I have several of the same racket in rotation).

That way, the tension settles in a bit before my first hit (it comes down a few pounds in the first week or so of sitting after stringing).

Then, after an hour or so of hitting/serving to break in the new gut (maybe 2-3 hours for Tough Gut), the tension seems to stay pretty consistent for the rest of the life of the string.

I test my string tension with RacquetTune. If it comes off the stringer around 57 lbs, it will usually drop to 54 lbs or so after 1-2 weeks of no hitting. Then usually another couple of pounds after my first 2 hour hit. YMMV.

Ok so im not crazy then and it makes sense to let the racket sit a while after restringing.

How do you maintain your gut?
 

IowaGuy

Hall of Fame
Ok so im not crazy then and it makes sense to let the racket sit a while after restringing.

How do you maintain your gut?

I don't do any maintenance to my gut strings.

I have tried Babolat string savers on strings that are starting to fray, but don't really like the feel on a full bed of gut (feels more harsh to me).

I have never tried any of the oils, etc.

I use strings with a pretty good coating (Tough Gut and/or Lux gut). Maybe more maintenance is needed for uncoated gut?
 

jim e

Legend
Whoops. Okay.. So same question for you then.
Since you asked.
Source for me was being member of stringing org. called IART, the owner director is a former member of the Wilson string team, and he posts a great deal of information.
They have a lot of useful information and dues are reasonable to be a member.
 

ByeByePoly

G.O.A.T.
For those using full-bed gut, what do you use in humid conditions as a substitute?

I'm thinking full-bed Velocity, at a few lbs lower than my full-bed gut setup. (My normal setup is full-bed 1.25 Lux gut or 1.25 Tough Gut @ 57 lbs).

Any good suggestions on a good substitute for humidity, and how much to adjust string tension for similar playability? Thanks!

If your goal is "gut-like multi" ... Velocity isn't it. For a multi ... Velocity is more poly-like than gut-like. I would think x-one (based on comments/reviews including Mikeler's multi thread) would be a good choice. I like the feel of Origin, and it's power is gut-like, but not the spin, and doesn't feel like gut to me (only played bab vs and tonic). With origin/v ... you get decent spin. The tension maintenance of Origin is excellent. I played xcel 15L a couple of years ago ... and that felt gut-like to me.
 

IowaGuy

Hall of Fame
Has anybody playing with a full bed of gut found any particular set more spin friendly?

I think the lower-powered guts are more spin friendly, since you can take a bigger cut at the ball without worrying about it being a rocket launcher.

Lux gut is one of the lowest powered that I have played with, probably due to its coating. Tough gut also relatively low-powered.

For me, Klip, Pacific Classic, and VS/Tonic seemed to have a little more power than Lux.

Those are all the guts that I have tried, I've settled in on Lux 1.25 and stocked up on it over the winter when it was on sale...
 

speedysteve

Legend
I've got some Wilson natural gut coming.
I've used Team VS, Pacific Bull and Classic and Klip Legend uptil now.
Hope I'm impressed.

Tips on tension Vs Klip legend?

Sent from my Pixel XL using Tapatalk
 

Tao69

Rookie
Try stringing the crosses 2-4 lbs lower. It should give you a bit more spin regardless of gut.
I have my Prince 93P strung at 48/45lbs with VS Touch, seems okay, just the occasional ball is a bit long and I wondered if there was a spin variance between guts I could take advantage of.
 
I have tennis elbow so went full gut to see if it helps, I think I went to high at 58lbs tension?? Shouldn't it drop in tension?? Been using for about three weeks. Play two or three times a week. Next time I will do a cross with a multi or maybe a soft poly at around 50lbs
 

andreh

Professional
I have my Prince 93P strung at 48/45lbs with VS Touch, seems okay, just the occasional ball is a bit long and I wondered if there was a spin variance between guts I could take advantage of.

OK, you know about that trick. Full gut @48/45 is very low though, for a full gut bed. Stringing a bit tighter will give you a bit more control

For reference, I string in the 55-51 range in a pro staff 6.0 85.
 

Tao69

Rookie
OK, you know about that trick. Full gut @48/45 is very low though, for a full gut bed. Stringing a bit tighter will give you a bit more control

For reference, I string in the 55-51 range in a pro staff 6.0 85.
Yeah, I did consider going a bit higher, but I was cognizant of how low powered the 93P would be so thought I’d try to get a bit more out of the string bed. It’s quite manageable for the most part, I suspect the little bit of free help I’m looking from the string set up isn’t that simple but I’ll string incrementally higher till I get the right tension.
 

IowaGuy

Hall of Fame
Yeah, I did consider going a bit higher, but I was cognizant of how low powered the 93P would be so thought I’d try to get a bit more out of the string bed. It’s quite manageable for the most part, I suspect the little bit of free help I’m looking from the string set up isn’t that simple but I’ll string incrementally higher till I get the right tension.

48/45 is very low for full gut.

I string at 65# in a medium-powered Pro Staff 97S.

I think you'll find the lower power you're looking for if you string just a little higher...
 

IowaGuy

Hall of Fame
I have tennis elbow so went full gut to see if it helps, I think I went to high at 58lbs tension?? Shouldn't it drop in tension?? Been using for about three weeks. Play two or three times a week. Next time I will do a cross with a multi or maybe a soft poly at around 50lbs

IMHO, if you have TE, poly crosses should be on the forbidden list...

My full gut stringjobs drop a few pounds in tension from stringing it until hitting with it for a few hours...

I would guess that yours would drop from 58 lbs down to 53 lbs or so after a few weeks and a few hours of hitting...
 
IMHO, if you have TE, poly crosses should be on the forbidden list...

My full gut stringjobs drop a few pounds in tension from stringing it until hitting with it for a few hours...

I would guess that yours would drop from 58 lbs down to 53 lbs or so after a few weeks and a few hours of hitting...

The gut string wasn't stretched first so maybe it will drop more? My other racket has timmo110 (main) and babolat excel (cross) I try to mostly use the gut racket however this other set up i quite like and feels soft (50 lbs tenison). I thought timmo was a soft poly so would be ok but maybe you (and others) are right. and I need to keep right away from the polys even soft ones. Next time I think I will string with a full multi or a gut multi combination.
 

markwillplay

Hall of Fame
I think I will try a full bed of Klip in my TT100p. That stck dos not like tensions in the upper half. Rec 45-55. I am thinking of going around 55/52. We'll see how it performs.
 

IowaGuy

Hall of Fame
I think I will try a full bed of Klip in my TT100p. That stck dos not like tensions in the upper half. Rec 45-55. I am thinking of going around 55/52. We'll see how it performs.

I string my ProStaff at 5 lbs over its recommended tension :) (50-60 recommended, I string at 65)
 

markwillplay

Hall of Fame
You know I was always tempted to put full gut in my old tour 100s (18 20 ports). I actually think I will do that. That frame is so arm friendly and it can handle higher tensions and still feel good. Yup, made up my mind. Maybe the full gut will give me the extra power that I could use with that frame?
 

andreh

Professional
I string my ProStaff at 5 lbs over its recommended tension :) (50-60 recommended, I string at 65)

That´s pretty tight even for gut. The sweet spot will be the size of a walnut in a PS85. I´m down in the 54-51 area. Allows me be to play relaxed and still get the power needed. I´m an old school vollyer, though. No big cuts at the ball, just block and bunt, McEnroe style.
 

IowaGuy

Hall of Fame
That´s pretty tight even for gut. The sweet spot will be the size of a walnut in a PS85. I´m down in the 54-51 area. Allows me be to play relaxed and still get the power needed. I´m an old school vollyer, though. No big cuts at the ball, just block and bunt, McEnroe style.

I'm not sure that the size of the sweet spot correlates with string tension with full gut? Doesn't feel like it to me, anyway.

PS85 - Sampras used way higher tension than 65# in his PS85 :)

Plus, the larger the head (my PS is 97"), the higher the tension needed compared to a smaller frame, for the same amount of control.

So I would need like 80-90# to be comparable to Sampras' reported high tensions in his PS85 :)
 

andreh

Professional
I'm not sure that the size of the sweet spot correlates with string tension with full gut? Doesn't feel like it to me, anyway.

PS85 - Sampras used way higher tension than 65# in his PS85 :)

Plus, the larger the head (my PS is 97"), the higher the tension needed compared to a smaller frame, for the same amount of control.

So I would need like 80-90# to be comparable to Sampras' reported high tensions in his PS85 :)

Ah, you use the RF97? I got it in my head that you used the old 85 for some reason. Yeah, with a 97 you'd probably have to go much higher. I don't think that frame was made with full gut in mind, as opposed to the old 85 that was introduced in 1984. My comment on the walnut sized sweet spot refered to the 85.

Sampras was Sampras... I wouldn't recommend using such a high tension in the 85 for anyone but him :)
 

IowaGuy

Hall of Fame
Ah, you use the RF97? I got it in my head that you used the old 85 for some reason. Yeah, with a 97 you'd probably have to go much higher. I don't think that frame was made with full gut in mind, as opposed to the old 85 that was introduced in 1984. My comment on the walnut sized sweet spot refered to the 85.

Sampras was Sampras... I wouldn't recommend using such a high tension in the 85 for anyone but him :)

I use the PS97S.

Agree the RF97 isn't so great with full gut (too much power, at least for me).

But the 97S is thinner beam and more flexible/less power than the RF97. Full gut feels great in it!
 

aaron_h27

Hall of Fame
Sampras used a very THIN gauge gut. Like 1.20-122 gauge so him stringing at 70-75 lbs is not that crazy actually. I've played with 1.25 gauge and it does trampoline the ball more
 

NicoMK

Hall of Fame
Hi all,

Yesterday, I restrung my Fischer with full bed natural gut so I thought that I might keep an eye on this thread. I've always played with soft multis at low tensions.

The thing is, I started developing (severe) elbow pain after switching rackets a year and half ago. Went back to my older frames short after hitting with the new frame but -- too late -- had to stop playing for almost a year. Hasn't fully recovered yet :cry:.

I've already played with full gut in the past but I've always preferred multis with a crisp feel (used Head Fibergel for years, now discontinued).

Now that I can play a bit more, I hope that using natural will help me recover 100%. Current set-up is Ficher Pro Classic 98 at 52/50 lb with a Babolat VS Team 1,30. See what happens (fingers crossed).

Cheers all!
 
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andreh

Professional
@NicoMK , you should consider resting and rehab training until you are 100% recovered. It's very common that players return to the game too early and injure themselves all over again. Many a player, myself included, have permanently injured their elbows by trying to play through the pain. Have a read in the Health and Fitness forum if you haven't already. Plenty of TE threads there.
 

NicoMK

Hall of Fame
@NicoMK , you should consider resting and rehab training until you are 100% recovered. It's very common that players return to the game too early and injure themselves all over again.

That's a wise advice that I'm taking into account, thank you Andreh. I don't have tennis elbow but the elbow is the issue. As I explained in another thread, I hurt myself by playing with a stiffer frame during a few months. I haven't played for eight months, had pysiotherapy for a few weeks. Now I can play with barely no pain. Went back to my old softer frame, a Fischer. Playing very cautiously. Hope it'll be alright but I will take no risks.

Full natural bed might be an option for playing 100% pain free, I hope it'll work.

And I hope your arm will get better too!
 
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NicoMK

Hall of Fame
What is the flex rating on the frame NicoMk. I think a Arm friendly frame is just important as the strings.

Good point. My frame has a 63 RA. A soft multi or - better? - a full natural bed should be a nice setup right?

A question though: I've always felt much more vibrations when using a natural gut than playing with a multi - on the same racket.

Not that I dislike vibrations - I don't like muted feels. BUT could those vibrations be an elbow killer in the end? Aren't natural guts supposed to be the most arm-friendly strings ever made?

Just wondering ... :unsure:
 

hurworld

Hall of Fame
Good point. My frame has a 63 RA. A soft multi or - better? - a full natural bed should be a nice setup right?

A question though: I've always felt much more vibrations when using a natural gut than playing with a multi - on the same racket.

Not that I dislike vibrations - I don't like muted feels. BUT could those vibrations be an elbow killer in the end? Aren't natural guts supposed to be the most arm-friendly strings ever made?

Just wondering ... :unsure:
Full bed of natural gut is definitely best for elbow.

Vibration doesn't kill elbow. Impact shock does. Those vibration can be easily muted with a vibration dampener.
 

NicoMK

Hall of Fame
Sort review about (me) playing with natural gut for the first time in maybe ten years -- still recovering from elbow injury : you were right guys, it seems "perfect" for the elbow so far. I didn't push too much especially on serve but this morning, I feel OK.

Game wise, I have to adapt because natural gut is much more powerful than any multis that I've tried. I was aware this and I strung my racket a bit tighter ( + 1 kg) but still. Overall, very soft on the arm, very pleasant to play. Let's see what happens in the next few weeks.

Cheers all !
 

Tao69

Rookie
Full bed of natural gut is definitely best for elbow.

Vibration doesn't kill elbow. Impact shock does. Those vibration can be easily muted with a vibration dampener.
I think the vibrations agitate the elbow when it's already injured, but agree it doesn't cause the injury. If you you think about the links in the kinetic chain that absorb the incoming energy, once the ball has deformed, the strings stretched and the racquet flexed, the rest of it is all taken on by your arm until you start exerting force the other way. So assuming you are able to continue to straighten your arm or maintain a straight arm, then the only things left are your muscles and tendons. Given your muscles are contracted or contracting then your tendons will bear the brunt of any remaining force; this is why technique and timing matter so much. A stiff racquet and stiff strings will absorb less force and transfer more to your arm, which will ultimately be your tendons. Its also a good reason not to play in wet conditions when the ball is wet, it's heavier and brings a lot more force even at lower speeds; that's how I got TE the first time and I've been stuck with it since...
 

speedysteve

Legend
Just put a full bed of Wilson Luxilon nat gut ina new to me Völkl V Sense 8 frame. It's 16x18 100 sqin so I went 58lb - that's high for me.
It's a powerful string and quite powerful frame, so here's hoping it's not too powerful.. and nice and arm friendly..

Sent from my Pixel XL using Tapatalk
 
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