The game has passed Brothers McEnroe by

tennis_pro

Bionic Poster
He butchers Nadal too: "Raffy-ul Nuh-dael"
It's like he thinks he's Mac so the bare minimum that a commentator should do for his job (learn the correct pronounciation of names) doesn't apply to him.

That's just attracious to me it's either super laziness or lack of intelligence or both.
 

TTMR

Hall of Fame
I enjoy having Jmac on there, I would take him any day over some guy who may "know more" about gear and current players but has never made it to a slam final. Would you prefer having a James Blake type announcing a slam final knowing he's never been there and doesn't understand what it's like to be in that arena? I get your point on Pat Mac or Fowler but hating on Jmac is a little too far for me. Guys a legend who cares if he calls poly strings the wrong name
"Being there" has no bearing on being a quality commentator.

Vin Scully never played mlb baseball but enjoyed a 70+ year career as arguably the best baseball commentator of all time.

Tennis has had woefully horrible commentators both in the US and English language European broadcasts for decades, with the exception of Cliff Drysdale and cameos by Andy Roddick.

Dick Enberg and Bob Costas were great broadcasters/hosts but lacked tennis knowledge and were thus drowned out by the litany of horrible "talent" like J-Mac, Carillo, Evert and Mary Joe among others.
 

MeatTornado

Talk Tennis Guru
"Being there" has no bearing on being a quality commentator.

Vin Scully never played mlb baseball but enjoyed a 70+ year career as arguably the best baseball commentator of all time.

Tennis has had woefully horrible commentators both in the US and English language European broadcasts for decades, with the exception of Cliff Drysdale and cameos by Andy Roddick.

Dick Enberg and Bob Costas were great broadcasters/hosts but lacked tennis knowledge and were thus drowned out by the litany of horrible "talent" like J-Mac, Carillo, Evert and Mary Joe among others.
But you're talking about 2 different things. Scully, Enberg and Costas are play-by-play commentators. They're not supposed to know the ins and outs of the game. They're just there to say what happens and then toss to a McEnroe who will explain the details since he's supposed to an expert who already lived through it as a player. That's the part Mac has lost, unfortunately. But he wasn't always like that. Once upon a time he did have actual tactical analysis he added to the broadcast that an Enberg couldn't.
 

tennis3

Hall of Fame
Johnny Mac is starting to do that "old man holler"

He called Aleksandr Vukic "Vukio" bc he was obviously straining to read.

PMac commented on Alcaraz carrying so many racquets and said "I would understand if that was natural gut, but they're all synthetic now"

Like guys come on. They sound like drunk idiots. Time for new blood and I hate to say that
Gimelstob knows tons about the game

Justin-Gimbelstob-e1586302104530.jpg
 

jm1972

Semi-Pro
But you're talking about 2 different things. Scully, Enberg and Costas are play-by-play commentators. They're not supposed to know the ins and outs of the game. They're just there to say what happens and then toss to a McEnroe who will explain the details since he's supposed to an expert who already lived through it as a player. That's the part Mac has lost, unfortunately. But he wasn't always like that. Once upon a time he did have actual tactical analysis he added to the broadcast that an Enberg couldn't.

Production probably asks McEnroe to dumb things down. The typical audience member doesn't want to feel like they don't know much about the game and people in general hate experts.

A clear example of that is (American) football commentary. It's an incredibly complex game, the commentators are experts and know the game but all we get from them is "oh look, that was a real good throw" when they exactly know everything what happened on the play, the name of the play, etc.
 

TTMR

Hall of Fame
But you're talking about 2 different things. Scully, Enberg and Costas are play-by-play commentators. They're not supposed to know the ins and outs of the game. They're just there to say what happens and then toss to a McEnroe who will explain the details since he's supposed to an expert who already lived through it as a player. That's the part Mac has lost, unfortunately. But he wasn't always like that. Once upon a time he did have actual tactical analysis he added to the broadcast that an Enberg couldn't.
Scully was a baseball expert and thus did commentary alone for broadcasts. He was both play by play and colour.

Enberg and Costas were general sports broadcasters. They need to have good colour people with them who have in depth analysis of the sport that they can articulate to the audience. J-Mac is knowledgeable about tennis but while on air speaks in cliches about stepping up to the plate, being in the locker room and choking. He clearly does no research on players, is incapable of statistical analysis, has no understanding of sports medicine, training, nutrition and just resorts to sports cliches about the mental game which is rarely the primary factor in a win or loss.

He phones it in, but so do the other people I mentioned last post.
 

MeatTornado

Talk Tennis Guru
A clear example of that is (American) football commentary. It's an incredibly complex game, the commentators are experts and know the game but all we get from them is "oh look, that was a real good throw" when they exactly know everything what happened on the play, the name of the play, etc.
Romo tried his best to break the mold when he first got into it, but it's clear he was told to tone it down. Although now it's been years and I think he's just started phoning it in more, even without being told to do so.
 

Mustard

Bionic Poster
John McEnroe has more bad days than good days now. When he started commentating in the 1990s, he was totally in touch with everything. As time has gone on (and the game, players and culture changed), he has gotten more and more out of touch slowly. It wouldn't be as bad if he had that Jimmy Connors/Roy Keane type of attitude (i.e. focus on what matters, fight hard for every point/ball), but McEnroe loves the sound of his own voice way too much and often goes off into ramblings. McEnroe basically ruined the Eurosport commentary on the Nadal vs. Djokovic 2022 French Open quarter final by going on and on for about 5-10 minutes, at different times, about Nadal's taking time between points/serves, and I honestly think the motivation for McEnroe at that time was the January 2022 Australia controversy with Djokovic.
 

Mainad

Bionic Poster
John McEnroe has more bad days than good days now. When he started commentating in the 1990s, he was totally in touch with everything. As time has gone on (and the game, players and culture changed), he has gotten more and more out of touch slowly. It wouldn't be as bad if he had that Jimmy Connors/Roy Keane type of attitude (i.e. focus on what matters, fight hard for every point/ball), but McEnroe loves the sound of his own voice way too much and often goes off into ramblings. McEnroe basically ruined the Eurosport commentary on the Nadal vs. Djokovic 2022 French Open quarter final by going on and on for about 5-10 minutes, at different times, about Nadal's taking time between points/serves, and I honestly think the motivation for McEnroe at that time was the January 2022 Australia controversy with Djokovic.

I miss his comic turn as The Self-Appointed Commissioner Of Tennis on the now sadly defunct Game, Set & Mats.
 

Mustard

Bionic Poster
I miss his comic turn as The Self-Appointed Commissioner Of Tennis on the now sadly defunct Game, Set & Mats.
Haha. Yeah, that was often funny, yet I mostly remember that Commissioner stuff for McEnroe's cringey rant where he pleaded with Serena Williams to break Margaret Court's majors record in order to consign Court to history for Court's terrible political/religious views.

Sad about Game, Set and Mats if it's truly gone :(
 

Mustard

Bionic Poster
I mean they’ve been doing stuff like that for years now. JMac still can’t say Zverev correctly and he’s been around for almost a decade as a top player.
Bad pronunciation never really bothered me that much. Dick Enberg never got Nadal's name right, and we can all agree he was one of the GOATs of tennis broadcasting.
Americans can never say Gilles Simon correctly. It's always "See-moan" not "See-mon". Then again, most of them say "A-dolf Hitler" rather than "Ad-olf Hitler".
 

Moose Malloy

G.O.A.T.
And nothing wrong with that. Top 5 icons in tennis today. I would say bigger than Serena Williams.
Yeah most people here are too young(or are too tennis nerdy) to realize just how famous John McEnroe is with the general public. I would say he is more famous in the US than Sampras, Agassi, or Serena.

The way he has managed to stay relevant is rather amazing(and I'm not just talking about these commentary gigs). The man is 65, retired in 1992, and they can't stop making documentaries on him. or feature films. He was in Curb Your Enthusiasm and was the narrator on the Netflix show Never Have I Ever(they sought him out, it's like he's going around pleading for work - do any of todays players have a voice as famous as Mac? yelling "you cannot be serious" has translated into more money than just about any phrase in history...)
He was in Only Murders in the Building last year! That show is huge.

And there is no talk show host in the world who would want to interview sampras, agassi, or serena over him. He is like Charles Barkley, people love to hear him talk.

It's doubtful that they will be making docs on the big three 40 years from now like they keep doing with the icons of the 70s/80s. Hell, no one seems to care about doing one about the Sampras Agassi rivalry(which was a joke in terms of mainstream interest in comparison to the Mac/Borg/Connors rivalries)

In the last few years alone these films were made about or involved Mac. Someone check back in 40 years to see if anyone is cranking out movies about Fedal. they aren't exactly the most interesting people to hear speak.

just a few weeks ago the AO youtube channel dropped this! and look at the production values, and effort to track down all these people. Gee, I wonder why they would waste all those resources on some old out of touch dinosaur tennis player.

from 2022, doc on Mac aired on Showtime/Paramount Plus

and this was doc from a French director, so the "only dumb Yanks care about Mac" argument doesn't hold water

BBC doc on 70s tennis boom from last year featuring one entire episode on Mac-Borg final(it's not like we are lacking for info on the 1980 W final, but yet they still keep making content about it!)

Borg vs McEnroe movie which Mac had no involvement with(again, he's not just courting all this attention)

I'm sure I'm forgetting more. But don't worry, I'm sure another doc will be coming out in the future.



and here's an interview with Pat McAfee(2 million subscribers) from last year. And McAfee isn't some boomer, he's Djokovic's age! No way in hell would he rather interview Agassi or Serena. Mac is broadcasting gold.
 
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Moose Malloy

G.O.A.T.
I'd love to know how much they actually make. You'd think a lot after being on air for this long, but you'd also expect ESPN to lay them off to cut costs like they have with every other sport.
He makes so much from commentary all around the world, it's not even funny. And the 4 slams are the only events he covers(doubt he even watches tennis off air) Wouldn't be surprised if he makes more at the AO than what Pmac, Gilbert, Mary Joe, Blake get combined. Yeah they are never firing him.

 

Mustard

Bionic Poster
He makes so much from commentary all around the world, it's not even funny. And the 4 slams are the only events he covers(doubt he even watches tennis off air) Wouldn't be surprised if he makes more at the AO than what Pmac, Gilbert, Mary Joe, Blake get combined.
I believe Jimmy Connors left BBC commentary after his 2005-2007 stint at Wimbledon because of it.

Connors did return to BBC Wimbledon coverage for one more year, i.e. 2014.
 

Bill Lobsalot

Hall of Fame
It's like he thinks he's Mac so the bare minimum that a commentator should do for his job (learn the correct pronounciation of names) doesn't apply to him.

That's just attracious to me it's either super laziness or lack of intelligence or both.
Hardly any of the English speaking announcers pronounce the names the same way.
 

Robert F

Hall of Fame
JMac oddly has been out of date for years, but still does a good job about the feel and mentality of the game. I think he is good to boost the energy of a match.
PMac for a long time was pretty up to date on things since he was so involved with Davis Cup and American tennis development. But maybe he is now a step behind.
PMac I think has had a very good understanding of the game and has done a great job explaining those subtle differences that even experienced fans won't pick up on.

Despite what they both bring, I just don't think they pair up well. Yeah, JMac is the color and PMac is the facts guy. But they don't jive as well.
PMac and Brad work really well together.
I think we just have to break up the Mac brothers and they'll both do beter on their own.

Still big fan of both.
 

Olli Jokinen

Hall of Fame
Johnny Mac is starting to do that "old man holler"

He called Aleksandr Vukic "Vukio" bc he was obviously straining to read.

PMac commented on Alcaraz carrying so many racquets and said "I would understand if that was natural gut, but they're all synthetic now"

Like guys come on. They sound like drunk idiots. Time for new blood and I hate to say that
JMac's constant "back when I was playing" is getting tiresome.
 

Mustard

Bionic Poster
The British announcers might be the biggest offenders. Compare how they pronounce Rybakina vs. how she says to pronounce her name on the WTA site. Butchered.
The correct Russian pronunciation of Sharapova is Shar-ap-ova rather than Shar-er-pova".
 

Rosstour

G.O.A.T.
JMac oddly has been out of date for years, but still does a good job about the feel and mentality of the game. I think he is good to boost the energy of a match.
PMac for a long time was pretty up to date on things since he was so involved with Davis Cup and American tennis development. But maybe he is now a step behind.
PMac I think has had a very good understanding of the game and has done a great job explaining those subtle differences that even experienced fans won't pick up on.

Despite what they both bring, I just don't think they pair up well. Yeah, JMac is the color and PMac is the facts guy. But they don't jive as well.
PMac and Brad work really well together.
I think we just have to break up the Mac brothers and they'll both do beter on their own.

Still big fan of both.

I like them both so I hate even saying this. You are spot on
 

Mainad

Bionic Poster
The correct Russian pronunciation of Sharapova is Shar-ap-ova rather than Shar-er-pova".

That said sometimes I've noticed the players themselves don't always seems that bothered by how their name is pronounced. I do recall Navaratilova (correctly pronounced Nav-rat-IL-ova) remarking that the way umpires pronounce her name makes her feel like an Italian countess.
 

MyFearHand

Professional
Johnny Mac is starting to do that "old man holler"

He called Aleksandr Vukic "Vukio" bc he was obviously straining to read.

PMac commented on Alcaraz carrying so many racquets and said "I would understand if that was natural gut, but they're all synthetic now"

Like guys come on. They sound like drunk idiots. Time for new blood and I hate to say that
Commentators in general offer nothing. If I didn’t want to hear the sound of the ball I’d watch on mute.
 

Mainad

Bionic Poster
Haha. Yeah, that was often funny, yet I mostly remember that Commissioner stuff for McEnroe's cringey rant where he pleaded with Serena Williams to break Margaret Court's majors record in order to consign Court to history for Court's terrible political/religious views.

Sad about Game, Set and Mats if it's truly gone :(

I always remember McEnroe interviewing his younger self (dark, curly wig with headband plus scowl) and concluding by saying "Wow, I never realised I was such a jerk!" :p

Yes, sadly Game, Set & Mats seems to have been replaced by something called The Cube whereby Barbara Schett and others interview former greats for their opinions on current matches. Wilander is now only one of these and McEnroe only now and again. Henman seems to play a much more regular part as one of the team.
 

ND-13

Legend
You can literally see their squirming when a qualifier takes a set or two against a top player in early rounds. They know they have to sit on the desk for another hour and they hate it.
 

metsman

Talk Tennis Guru
It's almost like broadcasters/media people in any sport like hanging out with famous athlete legends (and their kid brothers) and will pay a lot of money for them to clock in and clock out and don't care about talk tennis tier cutting edge analysis?
 

Mustard

Bionic Poster
You can literally see their squirming when a qualifier takes a set or two against a top player in early rounds. They know they have to sit on the desk for another hour and they hate it.
John Lloyd at the 2008 Australian Open in the Hewitt vs. Baghdatis match on BBC commentary was hilarious, particularly when Baghdatis started playing well in the fourth set from 1-5 down and eventually won the set 7-6, smiling as he did so and almost trolling. Lloyd clearly wanted to go to bed. This is the famous match that started about 11:55pm and ended after 4:30am, with Hewitt winning 4-6, 7-5, 7-5, 6-7, 6-3.
 

bigbadboaz

Semi-Pro
This line is perhaps the worst piece of commentating ever. I hate whenever he says that

The "eye dropper" thing is even worse.

Hardly anyone, including their countryman, know how to pronounce all the Eastern European and Russian names.
Quit trying to act so superior.

It's already been mentioned, but when your job is to talk about these people publicly - TWO to FOUR of them at a time, MAX - learning their names falls under the most basic definition of "professionalism".
 
Brad Gilbert can join them out to pasture. Hearing “fear-hand” 900 times a match along side things like “bock-hond” and him pronouncing Popyrin’s name as Pop-Grin for some reason the last few years has me wishing networks were brave enough to Old Yeller some of these guys commentating careers.
 

Cabeza del Demonio

Professional
JMac oddly has been out of date for years, but still does a good job about the feel and mentality of the game. I think he is good to boost the energy of a match.
PMac for a long time was pretty up to date on things since he was so involved with Davis Cup and American tennis development. But maybe he is now a step behind.
PMac I think has had a very good understanding of the game and has done a great job explaining those subtle differences that even experienced fans won't pick up on.

Despite what they both bring, I just don't think they pair up well. Yeah, JMac is the color and PMac is the facts guy. But they don't jive as well.
PMac and Brad work really well together.
I think we just have to break up the Mac brothers and they'll both do beter on their own.

Still big fan of both.
PMac, Chris Fowler, and Darren Cahill were the best in the business during the Big 4 days. Chris Fowler being the announcer, Cahill and PMac doing the analysis and color commentary. Great trio, great chemistry. Doesn't hurt that they were the voice behind so many of the greatest matches in our lifetimes.
 

Federer and Del Potro

Bionic Poster
For some reason I never found that annoying, or really anything PMac says. Maybe I'm biased, but he seems too chill for me to get mad at him. Doesn't sound forced like Brad Gilbert's nicknames for literally everything, or Rob Koenig trying to be a WWE announcer
I’m neutral on it - it was just the very first thing I thought of when I heard brothers McEnroe
 

MeatTornado

Talk Tennis Guru
That said sometimes I've noticed the players themselves don't always seems that bothered by how their name is pronounced. I do recall Navaratilova (correctly pronounced Nav-rat-IL-ova) remarking that the way umpires pronounce her name makes her feel like an Italian countess.
I imagine they're so used to it that it doesn't even phase them. All these pros have been traveling internationally since they were teenagers, and every country will pronounce names differently, so they hear their names "wrong" constantly.
 

ND-13

Legend
Brad Gilbert can join them out to pasture. Hearing “fear-hand” 900 times a match along side things like “bock-hond” and him pronouncing Popyrin’s name as Pop-Grin for some reason the last few years has me wishing networks were brave enough to Old Yeller some of these guys commentating careers.
And the long list of nick names..
 

RS

Bionic Poster
John Lloyd at the 2008 Australian Open in the Hewitt vs. Baghdatis match on BBC commentary was hilarious, particularly when Baghdatis started playing well in the fourth set from 1-5 down and eventually won the set 7-6, smiling as he did so and almost trolling. Lloyd clearly wanted to go to bed. This is the famous match that started about 11:55pm and ended after 4:30am, with Hewitt winning 4-6, 7-5, 7-5, 6-7, 6-3.
Hewitt ATG peak level the Joe Frazier of tennis.
 

FloridaAG

Hall of Fame
Interview with Sinner was unwatchable. I used to enjoy JMacs commentary and he was my favorite player as a kid, but he needs to give it up. What he is doing now does a disservice to the sport and the players whose names he cannot even be bothered to remember much less learn how to pronounce
 
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