The GOAT of Cincy

B

Boomski

Rookie
It has to be Roger - 7 titles, by far the best in the Open Era ahead of Mats Wilander (4). Cincy used to be a place where Federer produced his best tennis, especially later on his career with notable victories in 2014 and 2015 defeating younger opponents such as Djokovic and Murray. For Roger this was the last tournament before the US Open so he used Cincy to sharpen his tools, often with great success.

Among the 'new' players only Sinner looks like an option who may eventually threaten Fed's record at Cincinnati but Sinner is soon to be 24 so he has some dominating to do if is to catch Roger's 7 titles.

What's your best memory of Fed at Cincy? For me it's probably 2012 and 2015 when he didn't even get his serve broken for the entire tournament and whooping prime Djokovic twice.

Roger's 50 best points at the tournament for those of you who wish to take a trip down memory lane:

 
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Djokovic_is_the_best#1 said:
That small fry compared to what Nadal did at french open and even Djokovic at Australia. Sinner is capable of it.
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Federer in Cincinnati, on an outdoor hard court, and Djokovic in Paris-Bercy, on an indoor hard court, are the most successful players in a single Masters 1000 on that surface.
Both won their respective tournaments 7 times, a record in the open era.
Only Nadal, in Montecarlo and Rome, has won the same Masters 1000 tournament more times, but on a different surface, of course.
8-B
 
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Hitman said:
Wait, Sonic is an Egg fan?
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They're both scared of Egg

a2n9qr.jpg
 
CoolCoolCool said:
I remember watching some AO 15 highlights once and my firstborn commenting on the fact she wasn't born when she noticed the upload date. I took that personally and told her to f*ck off, she was confused.
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I'm sure you addressed the situation in a very cool manner.
 
That Cincy 2015 run was ridiculous. He was steamrolling opponents. If only the US Open had the same court speed that year Federer would have taken Djokovic down. The court speed at Cincinatti was always the best as it allowed aggressive play and shotmaking.
 
Ray Mercer said:
That Cincy 2015 run was ridiculous. He was steamrolling opponents. If only the US Open had the same court speed that year Federer would have taken Djokovic down. The court speed at Cincinatti was always the best as it allowed aggressive play and shotmaking.
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A best-of-three-set tournament is not the same as a best-of-five-set tournament for a veteran player versus a younger player.
:)
 
Sephiroth said:
aside from the mental block vs egg, Fred was coming in hot all throughout that summer Wimb-USO summer.
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Prime Djokovic wasn't going to lose to a veteran Federer in a best-of-five-set event, it wasn't going to happen.
8-B
 
DSH said:
A best-of-three-set tournament is not the same as a best-of-five-set tournament for a veteran player versus a younger player.
:)
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Court speed was more of a factor. The US Open was ridiculously slow during that time period. Federer handled Djokovic in straights in Cinci. There's a reason why he's won 7 titles there. He could pressure Djokovic far easier and utilize the one two punch in the faster conditions.
 
Ray Mercer said:
Court speed was more of a factor. The US Open was ridiculously slow during that time period. Federer handled Djokovic in straights in Cinci. There's a reason why he's won 7 titles there. He could pressure Djokovic far easier and utilize the one two punch in the faster conditions.
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He also exposed his hand by showing the SABR at Cincy, when he tried it at USO, Djokovic had the perfect counter. And lets not forget Federer's messing up numerous BP, what was he? 4 out of 23?

It cannot just be the speed of the court. Federer straight setted everyone on his way to the final. One of his most dominant runs to a final at USO.
 
Oddly, Fed has put up some stinkers at Cinci. Winning Montreal right before playing Cinci was bad news for his Cinci tourney

2004: won Montreal, then lost R1 in Cinci
2006: won Montreal, then lost R2 in Cinci(after first round bye)

Fed’s winning% in Cinci is only his 3rd best at a Masters event, trailing both IW and Madrid. Of course, Fed also played some incredible tennis at Cinci. And it’s still undoubtedly his best Masters event. But I’m surprised that he never 3-peated there like he did at IW. I wish that Cinci came before Montreal. But that’s the way it goes.

That said, Fed on fast hard courts was a monster. At the Masters Cup/WTF, he won 4 straight titles on fast hard courts from 2003-2007(2005 was held on carpet). His 2003, 2004, and 2006 matches were true gems, especially in the final.
 
Pheasant said:
Oddly, Fed has put up some stinkers at Cinci. Winning Montreal right before playing Cinci was bad news for his Cinci tourney

2004: won Montreal, then lost R1 in Cinci
2006: won Montreal, then lost R2 in Cinci(after first round bye)

Fed’s winning% in Cinci is only his 3rd best at a Masters event, trailing both IW and Madrid. Of course, Fed also played some incredible tennis at Cinci. And it’s still undoubtedly his best Masters event. But I’m surprised that he never 3-peated there like he did at IW. I wish that Cinci came before Montreal. But that’s the way it goes.

That said, Fed on fast hard courts was a monster. At the Masters Cup/WTF, he won 4 straight titles on fast hard courts from 2003-2007(2005 was held on carpet). His 2003, 2004, and 2006 matches were true gems, especially in the final.
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Federer never won in Montreal, both his titles came in Toronto.

The Cincy 2004 loss looked like a tank job to me, he wanted to get out to Athens for the Olympics.

2006, I think he was tired from all the tennis he was playing, having made every final that year, so while the loss is legit, I think he welcomed it, gave him the time to get it all together for USO.
 
Hitman said:
Federer never won in Montreal, both his titles came in Toronto.

The Cincy 2004 loss looked like a tank job to me, he wanted to get out to Athens for the Olympics.

2006, I think he was tired from all the tennis he was playing, having made every final that year, so while the loss is legit, I think he welcomed it, gave him the time to get it all together for USO.
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Good call on Toronto. I always get those cities mixed up for this event; especially with the WTA.

You have a good point about 2004 and 2006. 2004 did look half-arsed. And in 2006, his play dropped markedly towards the end of the Toronto. That 2006 loss in R2 was likely a blessing in disguise. So I will take it.
 
Hitman said:
He also exposed his hand by showing the SABR at Cincy, when he tried it at USO, Djokovic had the perfect counter. And lets not forget Federer's messing up numerous BP, what was he? 4 out of 23?

It cannot just be the speed of the court. Federer straight setted everyone on his way to the final. One of his most dominant runs to a final at USO.
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SABR went awful quiet after the consecutive lobs lol
 
Pheasant said:
Good call on Toronto. I always get those cities mixed up for this event; especially with the WTA.

You have a good point about 2004 and 2006. 2004 did look half-arsed. And in 2006, his play dropped markedly towards the end of the Toronto. That 2006 loss in R2 was likely a blessing in disguise. So I will take it.
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The thing about 2004 was he was also playing one of his closest friends on the tour, a guy he practically shared a dorm with, when they were young. Federer probably was thinking this is the perfect place to drop everything head over to Athens.

2006, he needed the break, I don't blame him. Legit loss to Murray, but sometimes those losses are needed more than wins.

In 2007 he was the closest, he lost a third set tie break to Djokovic in Montreal, then won Cincy in strong fashion, and followed it up by winning USO.
 
jl809 said:
SABR went awful quiet after the consecutive lobs lol
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Yep, Federer made a mistake showing that play to Djokovic in Cincy, Nole and Becker made the perfect counterstrike to it.

Imagine if he held it close to his chest and then unleashed it on the multiple BPs he had in the final....who knows what could have happened. Federer may have just outsmarted himself.
 
It's all very well drumming up a 'SABR' counter, but the most important factor was probably Djokovic not sh1tting the bed in a US Open final.
 
Ray Mercer said:
Court speed was more of a factor. The US Open was ridiculously slow during that time period. Federer handled Djokovic in straights in Cinci. There's a reason why he's won 7 titles there. He could pressure Djokovic far easier and utilize the one two punch in the faster conditions.
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Hitman said:
He also exposed his hand by showing the SABR at Cincy, when he tried it at USO, Djokovic had the perfect counter. And lets not forget Federer's messing up numerous BP, what was he? 4 out of 23?

It cannot just be the speed of the court. Federer straight setted everyone on his way to the final. One of his most dominant runs to a final at USO.
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the rain pushed the final down to the evening with cooler conditions which slowed down things and went against fed in USO 15
its not just the speed, but also the Bo5 factor.
 
Hitman said:
Yep, Federer made a mistake showing that play to Djokovic in Cincy, Nole and Becker made the perfect counterstrike to it.

Imagine if he held it close to his chest and then unleashed it on the multiple BPs he had in the final....who knows what could have happened. Federer may have just outsmarted himself.
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True, but…the SABR needed to be tested in competition. Too risky to try it for the first time at a slam
 
Cincy distracted Fed from succeeding in winning more USO’s since 2008, the oldest of slams he could not win one more time.
 
TearTheRoofOff said:
It's all very well drumming up a 'SABR' counter, but the most important factor was probably Djokovic not sh1tting the bed in a US Open final.
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Every other player probably would have : only his box was clapping for him and hundreds of drunken yanks yelling DOUBLE FAULT on a second serve. Mind of Steel. One of his biggest mental victories. Federer steamrolled everyone going into the final.
 
Hitman said:
He didn't need to try it on Djokovic though. We knew it was working already on other players. But letting Djokovic see it first hand before the real big fight at USO was not a wise move IMO.
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I never thought of it that way. Maybe you’re right. But USO conditions would have still really hampered it. It’s not just Fed’s SABR ball that’s traveling slower, it’s the serve he’s returning with it. Too much time for Djoko on both sides of the net to read the ball and the positioning
 
Move said:
Every other player probably would have : only his box was clapping for him and hundreds of drunken yanks yelling DOUBLE FAULT on a second serve. Mind of Steel. One of his biggest mental victories. Federer steamrolled everyone going into the final.
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Would you say the same about Fed’s 2004 and 2005 USO wins?
 
Move said:
Every other player probably would have : only his box was clapping for him and hundreds of drunken yanks yelling DOUBLE FAULT on a second serve. Mind of Steel. One of his biggest mental victories. Federer steamrolled everyone going into the final.
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What's interesting is the psychology of both overwhelming support/favouritism and the opposite, how they might affect different players differently, plus how that might differ from match to match. Murray obviously received overwhelming support at Wimbers in 2013 and he was met with a mind of tin foil. Of course that doesn't take away from the strong showings like the aforementioned, but it's interesting nonetheless.
 
The thing about that 2015 USO final was that Fed knew he was hopelessly outgunned from the baseline as the two preceding Wimbledon finals showed. Without the movement of prime Fed he instead resorted to playing an incredibly aggressive style of tennis even for him. Basically rushing his opponent to throw him off. He pulled it off a lot better than you’d expect and he really made Djokovic fight for it.

Still, with that strategy he’d need a lot of luck to win as it wasn’t very sustainable. Hence, all the UFEs. It wasn’t a very clean match. And he was poor on BPs too.

A bit like Agassi USO 2005 final except Agassi was worn out by the fourth set whereas Fed kept things lively to the end. And Agassi’s groundies were much cleaner while Fed had better movement.
 
Third Serve said:
The thing about that 2015 USO final was that Fed knew he was hopelessly outgunned from the baseline as the two preceding Wimbledon finals showed. Without the movement of prime Fed he instead resorted to playing an incredibly aggressive style of tennis even for him. Basically rushing his opponent to throw him off. He pulled it off a lot better than you’d expect and he really made Djokovic fight for it.
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But it's not like Fed lost that match because he played too aggressive and the percentages simply caught up to him over Bo5. Novak wasn't even playing that well, which is why Fed was able to create so many break points in the first place. But he was just completely in his own head from the moment he walked down the tunnel. He wasn't just missing a lot of balls, his errors weren't even close. He was putting groundstrokes barely halfway up the net and sailing slices & chips well past the baseline. It was as ugly a match as he's ever played from the baseline. It's not like he was trying to hit his FH & BH harder than ever to penetrate Novak's defenses, they were just simple rally balls that he was botching.

Yes he got smothered at Wimbledon, but he'd already beaten Djokovic twice that year, including a couple weeks ago. His ground game was perfectly fine the first 6 rounds of the tournament, there was no reason for his confidence to be rock bottom. But he let the moment get to him. I consider it a way worse mental loss than any of his more famous blown MPs.
 
MeatTornado said:
But it's not like Fed lost that match because he played too aggressive and the percentages simply caught up to him over Bo5. Novak wasn't even playing that well, which is why Fed was able to create so many break points in the first place. But he was just completely in his own head from the moment he walked down the tunnel. He wasn't just missing a lot of balls, his errors weren't even close. He was putting groundstrokes barely halfway up the net and sailing slices & chips well past the baseline. It was as ugly a match as he's ever played from the baseline. It's not like he was trying to hit his FH & BH harder than ever to penetrate Novak's defenses, they were just simple rally balls that he was botching.

Yes he got smothered at Wimbledon, but he'd already beaten Djokovic twice that year, including a couple weeks ago. His ground game was perfectly fine the first 6 rounds of the tournament, there was no reason for his confidence to be rock bottom. But he let the moment get to him. I consider it a way worse mental loss than any of his more famous blown MPs.
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Prime Djokovic wasn't going to lose to a veteran Federer in a best-of-five-set event.
It just wasn't going to happen.
:D
 
Third Serve said:
The thing about that 2015 USO final was that Fed knew he was hopelessly outgunned from the baseline as the two preceding Wimbledon finals showed. Without the movement of prime Fed he instead resorted to playing an incredibly aggressive style of tennis even for him. Basically rushing his opponent to throw him off. He pulled it off a lot better than you’d expect and he really made Djokovic fight for it.

Still, with that strategy he’d need a lot of luck to win as it wasn’t very sustainable. Hence, all the UFEs. It wasn’t a very clean match. And he was poor on BPs too.

A bit like Agassi USO 2005 final except Agassi was worn out by the fourth set whereas Fed kept things lively to the end. And Agassi’s groundies were much cleaner while Fed had better movement.
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This.

Both played a pretty low-percentage style because they had no other choice.

It depends which do you value more highly: Agassi’s stronger groundies (facilitated by the quicker court) or Fed’s superior movement.

If movement were everything, Djoker wouldn’t have gotten demolished by Sinner at AO 2024
 
MeatTornado said:
But it's not like Fed lost that match because he played too aggressive and the percentages simply caught up to him over Bo5. Novak wasn't even playing that well, which is why Fed was able to create so many break points in the first place. But he was just completely in his own head from the moment he walked down the tunnel. He wasn't just missing a lot of balls, his errors weren't even close. He was putting groundstrokes barely halfway up the net and sailing slices & chips well past the baseline. It was as ugly a match as he's ever played from the baseline. It's not like he was trying to hit his FH & BH harder than ever to penetrate Novak's defenses, they were just simple rally balls that he was botching.

Yes he got smothered at Wimbledon, but he'd already beaten Djokovic twice that year, including a couple weeks ago. His ground game was perfectly fine the first 6 rounds of the tournament, there was no reason for his confidence to be rock bottom. But he let the moment get to him. I consider it a way worse mental loss than any of his more famous blown MPs.
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Kind of hard to be mentally strong when you’re up against a younger ATG and you are in your mid 30’s. We’ve seen Djokovic falter mentally too against Sinneraz
 
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