The greater US Open player

Who is the greater USO player ? Nadal or John McEnroe ?

  • Rafael Nadal

    Votes: 20 43.5%
  • John McEnroe

    Votes: 26 56.5%

  • Total voters
    46

ForehandRF

Semi-Pro
Both share the same number of titles as of now, but of course Rafa can still win more trophies in New York :) Discuss.
 

tennis_pro

Bionic Poster
Nadal's opponents at the USO from the QF onwards:

2010:
Verdasco
Youzhny
Djokovic - pre-prime, 5-setter the round before which was also his first top 10 of the season, had energy for 3 sets

2013
Robredo
Gasquet
Djokovic - out of form, lost early in both Canada/Cincinnati, tough 5 set match against Wawrinka the round before

2017
Rublev
Del Potro - tough match the round before, no backhand, played well for a set
Anderson

2019
Schwartzman
Berrettini
Medvedev

So out of 12 matches he played Djokovic twice, Del Potro once and a platoon of mugs 9 times. Comparing him with McEnroe who had to go through Borg, Connors or Lendl several times is beyond the joke.
 
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K-H

Hall of Fame
Nadal's opponents at the USO from the QF onwards:

2010:
Verasco
Youzhny
Djokovic - pre-prime, 5-setter the round before which was also his first top 10 of the season, had energy for 3 sets

2013
Robredo
Gasquet
Djokovic - out of form, lost early in both Canada/Cincinnati, tough 5 set match against Wawrinka the round before

2017
Rublev
Del Potro - tough match the round before, no backhand, played well for a set
Anderson

2019
Schwartzman
Berrettini
Medvedev

So out of 12 matches he played Djokovic twice, Del Potro once and a platoon of mugs 9 times. To compare him with McEnroe who had to go through Borg, Connors or Lendl several times is beyond the joke.
After you said djokovic out of form and lost early I stopped reading
He lost in semi finals of Montreal to nadal and pushed him to 3 sets. That's not losing early and out of form. Before that he just made the Wimbledon final. Then after USO he went pretty much unbeaten. I don't think he even lost a match
So you're saying just that small spread of time where Rafa beat him twice, he was out of form

Something doesn't sound right there
 

BringBackSV

Hall of Fame
After you said djokovic out of form and lost early I stopped reading
He lost in semi finals of Montreal to nadal and pushed him to 3 sets. That's not losing early and out of form. Before that he just made the Wimbledon final. Then after USO he went pretty much unbeaten. I don't think he even lost a match
So you're saying just that small spread of time where Rafa beat him twice, he was out of form

Something doesn't sound right there
It was all trash from the kid but no self respecting person would claim 2013 Novak was out of form at the USO.
 

Lew II

Hall of Fame
Nadal's opponents at the USO from the QF onwards:

2010:
Verasco
Youzhny
Djokovic - pre-prime, 5-setter the round before which was also his first top 10 of the season, had energy for 3 sets

2013
Robredo
Gasquet
Djokovic - out of form, lost early in both Canada/Cincinnati, tough 5 set match against Wawrinka the round before

2017
Rublev
Del Potro - tough match the round before, no backhand, played well for a set
Anderson

2019
Schwartzman
Berrettini
Medvedev

So out of 12 matches he played Djokovic twice, Del Potro once and a platoon of mugs 9 times. To compare him with McEnroe who had to go through Borg, Connors or Lendl several times is beyond the joke.
 

tennis_pro

Bionic Poster
After you said djokovic out of form and lost early I stopped reading
He lost in semi finals of Montreal to nadal and pushed him to 3 sets. That's not losing early and out of form. Before that he just made the Wimbledon final. Then after USO he went pretty much unbeaten. I don't think he even lost a match
So you're saying just that small spread of time where Rafa beat him twice, he was out of form

Something doesn't sound right there
Even if you count that please give us your insight on the remaining 11 wins. Or just the 9. I got my popcorn ready.
 

zuluzazu

Rookie
McEnroe .. because he did it without poly strings and a huuuuuuge racquet.
Those times nobody had those. It would make sense if mcenroe only played with small racquets and rest of the tour played with huge racquets. But still it wouldnt make sense as nobody denied him to use bigger racquets when everybody else was using it.
 

tonylg

Semi-Pro
Those times nobody had those. It would make sense if mcenroe only played with small racquets and rest of the tour played with huge racquets. But still it wouldnt make sense as nobody denied him to use bigger racquets when everybody else was using it.
McEnroe did it without training wheels, so he is the greater champion.
 

KINGROGER

G.O.A.T.
Nadal's opponents at the USO from the QF onwards:

2010:
Verdasco
Youzhny
Djokovic - pre-prime, 5-setter the round before which was also his first top 10 of the season, had energy for 3 sets

2013
Robredo
Gasquet
Djokovic - out of form, lost early in both Canada/Cincinnati, tough 5 set match against Wawrinka the round before

2017
Rublev
Del Potro - tough match the round before, no backhand, played well for a set
Anderson

2019
Schwartzman
Berrettini
Medvedev

So out of 12 matches he played Djokovic twice, Del Potro once and a platoon of mugs 9 times. To compare him with McEnroe who had to go through Borg, Connors or Lendl several times is beyond the joke.
And to think, some fans have the audacity to claim Fed had it easy in 2004-2008 when he was beating Old Agassi, Nalbandian, Davydenko, Hewitt, Roddick, Blake, Young Djokovic etc.
 

tennis_pro

Bionic Poster
After you said djokovic out of form and lost early I stopped reading
He lost in semi finals of Montreal to nadal and pushed him to 3 sets. That's not losing early and out of form. Before that he just made the Wimbledon final. Then after USO he went pretty much unbeaten. I don't think he even lost a match
So you're saying just that small spread of time where Rafa beat him twice, he was out of form

Something doesn't sound right there
Oh and Djokovic losing to Nadal on HC is an indicator that he was out of form.
 

tennis_pro

Bionic Poster
And to think, some fans have the audacity to claim Fed had it easy in 2004-2008 when he was beating Old Agassi, Nalbandian, Davydenko, Hewitt, Roddick, Blake, Young Djokovic etc.
I don't see the old Agassi argument that often anymore given what Federer/Nadal/Djokovic have been doing recently. 33/35 not that old anymore, huh?

Nadal fans don't seem to care that Nadal went through a draw filled with waiters (AGAIN) too. How funny is that given how often they bring up the 2004-2007 argument. Hewitt, Roddick and Safin are like top top ATGs compared to the current era.
 

ReeceSachs

Professional
And to think, some fans have the audacity to claim Fed had it easy in 2004-2008 when he was beating Old Agassi, Nalbandian, Davydenko, Hewitt, Roddick, Blake, Young Djokovic etc.
2007-2008 should certainly not be called easy.....
I rarely hear 2008 is is mostly 2004-2007 that i hear.
 

KINGROGER

G.O.A.T.
2007-2008 should certainly not be called easy.....
I rarely hear 2008 is is mostly 2004-2007 that i hear.
It really baffles me.

07 AO he took out a peaking Gonzalez who destroyed Nadal himself...
Wimbledon he out clutched a peak Nadal on grass in 5 sets.
07 USO he took down a well playing Roddick and Djokovic

Which slam was easy? I don’t see any. Certainly no easier than rafa’s 2 in 2008.
 

Azure

Hall of Fame
Instead of comparing by opponents, I would like to see some analysis backed by data in numbers. Unfortunately this sport has the least data available. The rest is just opinion. Some court speed data, form etc would help.

This is what I see from the data available online: Mc Enroe beat Borg in 80' when Borg had won the RG and Wimby (again) and in 81 when Mc Enroe had already beaten Borg that year in Wimbly. A change of guard of sorts had already taken place. By then Borg himself was a 4 time finalist there.

80' seems the most impressive in Mc Enroe's kitty. He had beaten Connors in the semi finals and Lendl in the quarters. Of course, Lendl had still not become the champion he was to be, having turned professional only a couple of years before, in 78'.

In 79' he entered as the number 3 in the world and beat Vitas Gerulaitis in the finals and Connors again in the semis. Borg had already lost to Tanner in the Quarters. Gerulaitis took 5 sets to beat Tanner in the semis. Perhaps recovery was tougher those days? Dunno. It was a win for Mc Enroe in straights.

In the legendary 84' the man was on fire. He beat Lendl in straights in the finals (Lendl was by this time a force I reckon, ranked number 2 in the world) and Connors in the semis, who was the defending champion.

Rafa's journey in the US Open is more fresh in our memories so I don't need to put them forth here. I put out the above just for the sake of information. Personally I see that Mc Enroe had it tougher than Rafa.
 
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Pheasant

Hall of Fame
I believe that McEnroe played some really tough opponents. I have to take a look.

1979: Mac took out Connors in the semis, then Gerulaitis in the final; both in straight set blowouts. Mac lost only one set at this tourney.

1980: Mac beat Lendl in the quarters, Connors in the semis, and Borg in the final. Wow!!

1981: Mac took out Gerulaitis in the semis and Borg in the final to win this tourney for the 3rd consecutive year.

1984: Mac took out Connors in the semis and Lendl in the final.

Mac beat some real heavyweights here. I have to give this one to McEnroe. His level of competition was incredible. Also, 3 straight titles is quite impressive too.
 
Of course it's Mac.

Nadal actually ranks below 3-time winners like Lendl and Novak Djokovic at the US Open also. Look at the lack of top 10 players he's ever beaten there. Lendl and Novak Djokovic have 8 finals to his 5.
 

thrust

Hall of Fame
Connors because he won it on 3 different surfaces. That will never be equaled.
Of course it's Mac.

Nadal actually ranks below 3-time winners like Lendl and Novak Djokovic at the US Open also. Look at the lack of top 10 players he's ever beaten there. Lendl and Novak Djokovic have 8 finals to his 5.
Connors because he won it on 3 different surfaces. That will never be equaled.
Beating Borg in two green clay court years, one final and one semi. Also beat Borg in a hard court final. Mac though owned Connors at the USO, also beat Borg in two finals.
 

Flash O'Groove

Hall of Fame
After you said djokovic out of form and lost early I stopped reading
He lost in semi finals of Montreal to nadal and pushed him to 3 sets. That's not losing early and out of form. Before that he just made the Wimbledon final. Then after USO he went pretty much unbeaten. I don't think he even lost a match
So you're saying just that small spread of time where Rafa beat him twice, he was out of form

Something doesn't sound right there
Beating Djokovic in the USO final 2013 was certainly an uspet and a great feat, no question about it (it's also the last time Nadal defeated Djokovic on Hard courts).

Djokovic 2010 though, I do think was not too hard. 2010 was a poor year for Djokovic. His victory on Federer in 5 sets was his first top 10 win of the year. Federer like wise was inferior in 2010 than in 2009 and 2011. It IS a great achievement for Nadal because it completed his sets of slams and he had underperformed at the USO up to there, but it is true it doesn't compare in term of strength of opponents with McEnroe's.
 

NatF

Bionic Poster
Beating Djokovic in the USO final 2013 was certainly an uspet and a great feat, no question about it (it's also the last time Nadal defeated Djokovic on Hard courts).

Djokovic 2010 though, I do think was not too hard. 2010 was a poor year for Djokovic. His victory on Federer in 5 sets was his first top 10 win of the year. Federer like wise was inferior in 2010 than in 2009 and 2011. It IS a great achievement for Nadal because it completed his sets of slams and he had underperformed at the USO up to there, but it is true it doesn't compare in term of strength of opponents with McEnroe's.
Djokovic played a better final in 2010 than 2013 IMO. He was wasn't great for much of 2013, he resurrected his season in the fall swing.
 

Flash O'Groove

Hall of Fame
Djokovic played a better final in 2010 than 2013 IMO. He was wasn't great for much of 2013, he resurrected his season in the fall swing.
Possibly. Possibly Nadal was better in 2013 than 2010 too. For sure if Djokovic was better in 2010, it was an outlier performance in a poor year (by his standards). If he was worse in 2013, it was an outlier performance in a great year.
 

NatF

Bionic Poster
Possibly. Possibly Nadal was better in 2013 than 2010 too. For sure if Djokovic was better in 2010, it was an outlier performance in a poor year (by his standards). If he was worse in 2013, it was an outlier performance in a great year.
2013 was a patchy year by Djokovic, the USO final was sort of the tipping point before the Becker involvement IIRC. If you look at the last three rounds of the USO he struggled with old man Youzhny and Wawrinka, he didn't play well in either win. Then in the final he started off badly and ended badly. Where as 2010 was a poor year pretty much the whole way through but the USO run was the highlight where he actually acquited himself pretty well in the final - it didn't have the highs of the middle sets of the 2013 final but it didn't have the valleys either.

And I don't think the USO final was an outlier at all, he was poor in the Wimbledon final and had underperformed in pretty much all the masters apart from Canada and Monte Carlo.
 

Enceladus

Hall of Fame
McEnroe is a greater at USO, because gained hattrick (1979-1981). In addition to Mac, only Lendl (1985-87) and Federer (2004-08) has a series at least 3 titles in a row at USO in the Open era.
 

StrongRule

Hall of Fame
Nadal's opponents at the USO from the QF onwards:

2010:
Verdasco
Youzhny
Djokovic - pre-prime, 5-setter the round before which was also his first top 10 of the season, had energy for 3 sets

2013
Robredo
Gasquet
Djokovic - out of form, lost early in both Canada/Cincinnati, tough 5 set match against Wawrinka the round before

2017
Rublev
Del Potro - tough match the round before, no backhand, played well for a set
Anderson

2019
Schwartzman
Berrettini
Medvedev

So out of 12 matches he played Djokovic twice, Del Potro once and a platoon of mugs 9 times. Comparing him with McEnroe who had to go through Borg, Connors or Lendl several times is beyond the joke.
 

StrongRule

Hall of Fame
After you said djokovic out of form and lost early I stopped reading
He lost in semi finals of Montreal to nadal and pushed him to 3 sets. That's not losing early and out of form. Before that he just made the Wimbledon final. Then after USO he went pretty much unbeaten. I don't think he even lost a match
So you're saying just that small spread of time where Rafa beat him twice, he was out of form

Something doesn't sound right there
Also, anybody who calls Medvedev in USO 2019 final a mug should have his head examined like 10 times. But let's not blame them. LOL, I guess 40-15 and especially #19 still hurts. (sorry to the good Federer fans, but as you see the trolls are just asking for bashing)
 

KINGROGER

G.O.A.T.
Also, anybody who calls Medvedev in USO 2019 final a mug should have his head examined like 10 times. But let's not blame them. LOL, I guess 40-15 and especially #19 still hurts. (sorry to the good Federer fans, but as you see the trolls are just asking for bashing)
Medvedev proved us all wrong, and was very close to breaking back in that 5th set. Brilliant final to watch, and made sure I was working Monday off about 4 hours sleep :laughing:
 

UnderratedSlam

Hall of Fame
Medvedev proved us all wrong, and was very close to breaking back in that 5th set. Brilliant final to watch, and made sure I was working Monday off about 4 hours sleep :laughing:
Too many people were influenced by the Canadian Open match, which heavily favoured Rafa due to Medvedev's inexperience and the wind. I knew the match would be very close. Medvedev improves from event to event and his game can annoy any player.
 

UnderratedSlam

Hall of Fame
2013 was a patchy year by Djokovic, the USO final was sort of the tipping point before the Becker involvement IIRC. If you look at the last three rounds of the USO he struggled with old man Youzhny and Wawrinka, he didn't play well in either win. Then in the final he started off badly and ended badly. Where as 2010 was a poor year pretty much the whole way through but the USO run was the highlight where he actually acquited himself pretty well in the final - it didn't have the highs of the middle sets of the 2013 final but it didn't have the valleys either.

And I don't think the USO final was an outlier at all, he was poor in the Wimbledon final and had underperformed in pretty much all the masters apart from Canada and Monte Carlo.
Novak struggling vs Stan in slams is normal.
 
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