Bubcay
Legend
Well, there has never been a better competition than Nadal and Federer, won't you agree?
The greatest ever 18 month run in ATP history
- Thread starter Hitman
- Start date
TearTheRoofOff
G.O.A.T.
Or that the depth outside the Top 10 was good etc. etc. blah blah Djokovic GBWOAT.
alinefx
Rookie
He still had to wait for the other two to get hobbled before this run was possible. 2012 is the best indicator of what’s possible when all 4 were at full strength. Djokovic should have easily carried over 2011 if the other three hadnt Figured him out. Peak for peak, look no further than FO2011.
@lucky13 2-4 doesn't tell the whole story.Federer had to face Nadal on clay only in the BO5 format and that's different to anything in 2015-2016
| 24-05-2015 | Roland Garros | Clay | QF | Novak Djokovic (1) d. Rafael Nadal (6) | 7-5 6-3 6-1 |
completely incorrect! so much misinformation in such a short sentence! fed was always very inferior to rafa and to the venous boundary on clay (except blue clay). nole, on the other hand, accounts for 2/3 of rafas losses in RG and 1/5 of rafas clay losses in general (including 3-0 during the period in question: MC, rome and RG)! nole even has a better record against rafa on clay than rafa against him on HC! also, not all of the 4 feds losses have been on clay. the fact is that fed during his best period had positive h2h against rafa only on the grass, 1-0. at HC they had 1-1 and he was 0-3 at clay!
mike danny
Bionic Poster
Sure, but this was 2015 Nadal and aging Federer.
nole had a 7-0 streak against the best version of rafa. and it was in 7 big finals and on all 3 surfaces! the fact is, if it were not for nole, rafa's best year would be 2011 and not 2010!
| 16-01-2012 | Australian Open | Hard | F | Novak Djokovic (1) d. Rafael Nadal (2) | 5-7 6-4 6-2 6-7(5) 7-5 | Stats |
| 29-08-2011 | US Open | Hard | F | Novak Djokovic (1) d. Rafael Nadal (2) | 6-2 6-4 6-7(3) 6-1 | Stats |
| 20-06-2011 | Wimbledon | Grass | F | Novak Djokovic (2) d. Rafael Nadal (1) | 6-4 6-1 1-6 6-3 | Stats |
| 08-05-2011 | Rome Masters | Clay | F | Novak Djokovic (2) d. Rafael Nadal (1) | 6-4 6-4 | Stats |
| 01-05-2011 | Madrid Masters | Clay | F | Novak Djokovic (2) d. Rafael Nadal (1) | 7-5 6-4 | Stats |
| 23-03-2011 | Miami Masters | Hard | F | Novak Djokovic (2) d. Rafael Nadal (1) | 4-6 6-3 7-6(4) | Stats |
| 10-03-2011 | Indian Wells Masters | Hard | F | Novak Djokovic (3) d. Rafael Nadal (1) | 4-6 6-3 6-2 | Stats |
ForehandRF
Legend
The misinformation is in your case when you are comparing 2006 Nadal with the 2015 version.
again!
nole had a 7-0 streak against the best version of rafa. and it was in 7 big finals and on all 3 surfaces! the fact is, if it were not for nole, rafa's best year would be 2011 and not 2010!
| 16-01-2012 | Australian Open | Hard | F | Novak Djokovic (1) d. Rafael Nadal (2) | 5-7 6-4 6-2 6-7(5) 7-5 | Stats |
| 29-08-2011 | US Open | Hard | F | Novak Djokovic (1) d. Rafael Nadal (2) | 6-2 6-4 6-7(3) 6-1 | Stats |
| 20-06-2011 | Wimbledon | Grass | F | Novak Djokovic (2) d. Rafael Nadal (1) | 6-4 6-1 1-6 6-3 | Stats |
| 08-05-2011 | Rome Masters | Clay | F | Novak Djokovic (2) d. Rafael Nadal (1) | 6-4 6-4 | Stats |
| 01-05-2011 | Madrid Masters | Clay | F | Novak Djokovic (2) d. Rafael Nadal (1) | 7-5 6-4 | Stats |
| 23-03-2011 | Miami Masters | Hard | F | Novak Djokovic (2) d. Rafael Nadal (1) | 4-6 6-3 7-6(4) | Stats |
| 10-03-2011 | Indian Wells Masters | Hard | F | Novak Djokovic (3) d. Rafael Nadal (1) | 4-6 6-3 6-2 | Stats |
and in 2015-2016 he had another 7-0 streak.
| 09-05-2016 | Rome Masters | Clay | QF | Novak Djokovic (1) d. Rafael Nadal (5) | 7-5 7-6(4) | Stats |
| 07-03-2016 | Indian Wells Masters | Hard | SF | Novak Djokovic (1) d. Rafael Nadal (4) | 7-6(5) 6-2 | Stats |
| 04-01-2016 | Doha | Hard | F | Novak Djokovic (1) d. Rafael Nadal (2) | 6-1 6-2 | Stats |
| 15-11-2015 | Tour Finals | Hard (i) | SF | Novak Djokovic (1) d. Rafael Nadal (5) | 6-3 6-3 | Stats |
| 05-10-2015 | Beijing | Hard | F | Novak Djokovic (1) d. Rafael Nadal (3) | 6-2 6-2 | Stats |
| 24-05-2015 | Roland Garros | Clay | QF | Novak Djokovic (1) d. Rafael Nadal (6) | 7-5 6-3 6-1 | Stats |
| 12-04-2015 | Monte Carlo Masters | Clay | SF | Novak Djokovic (1) d. Rafael Nadal (3) | 6-3 6-3 | Stats |
Anyway, the first one was much more impressive!
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nolefam_2024
Bionic Poster
If you watch the Rafa Murray 2008 USopen semis vs 2011, Rafa's backhand was much more potent and consistent in 2011. Still he got owned by Nole that year.
The most hottest streak was Feds 247-16 from 2004-6. Iam not cherry picking stats like the case above i.e count only when he wins.And Djokovic was 135-9. It was hard to beat but Djokovic did it.
Statiscally, McEnroe had the higher winning percentage but only 2 Slams to Djokovic's 5.
If we rule out clay court losses to nadal he was unbeatable in other courts.
NoleFam
Bionic Poster
Yea I agree that that is the hottest streak over a 3 year period. The OP is only talking about a year a half though.
fishpiefriday
Semi-Pro
mike danny
Bionic Poster
Fed probably has the best 20 month period though from Halle 2005 to Dubai 2007.
Bubcay
Legend
You can turn that logic around to suit any scenario and apply to any of them over the years. To old, too young, injured. It is how sport works. They all participated in the professional competitive sport of their own free will. No excuses.
mike danny
Bionic Poster
Yes and my original reply thus applies.
Bubcay
Legend
Fair enough.
NoleFam
Bionic Poster
Fed probably has the best 20 month period though from Halle 2005 to Dubai 2007.
Only one WTF compared to Djokovic's 2 and 5 Masters to Djokovic's 10. They both have 5 Slams. It's still Djokovic.
wrong! nole has both had higher peak dominance and had a much longer peak period than fed! the fact is that nole had the highest peak dominance in history (nole slam W15-RG16 + WTF and 5 masters in between and 16950 points as well as the greatest streak in tennis history in early 2011 and the highest ELO) and the longest dominance in history as he has completely dominated the last 11 years and holds all possible no1 records!
peak:
Ultimate Tennis Statistics - GOAT List
Open Era GOAT List (a.k.a. GOATometer) compares tennis player career achievements expressed by GOAT Points
www.ultimatetennisstatistics.com
Ultimate Tennis Statistics - GOAT List
Open Era GOAT List (a.k.a. GOATometer) compares tennis player career achievements expressed by GOAT Points
www.ultimatetennisstatistics.com
mike danny
Bionic Poster
Hey, Djokovic wins in the 18 month period, Fed wins in the 20 month period. I wasn't comparing them. Fed had the benefit of an extra slam being played.
NoleFam
Bionic Poster
Fair enough.
abmk
Bionic Poster
Nope. fed has 6 slams out of 7 from Halle 05 to Dubai 07 - Wim 05, USO 05, AO 06, Wim 06, USO 06, AO 07
Djoko has 5 out of 6 from AO 15 to RG 16, but 5 out of 7 from USO 14 to RG 16 or 5 out of 7 from AO 15 to Wim 16, whichever way you take it.
abmk
Bionic Poster
see above ^^
dominance:
most slams in a row - nole 4
most slam wins in a row - nole 30
points record - nole 16950
best year - nole W15 - RG16
best season - nole 2015
best ELO - nole
most YE # 1 - nole 6 (7)
most IT champ - nole 6 (7, and there was no ITF champ selected for 2020 where nole has objectively been the best)
most no1 weeks - nole 345+
H2H: nole > rafa > fed
most big titles - nole 61
greatest W streak - nole DC 2010 - RG 2011
W% - nole
versatility:
most CGS - nole 2
most GM - nole 2
most slams in a row - nole 4
most slam wins in a row - nole 30
points record - nole 16950
best year - nole W15 - RG16
best season - nole 2015
best ELO - nole
most YE # 1 - nole 6 (7)
most IT champ - nole 6 (7, and there was no ITF champ selected for 2020 where nole has objectively been the best)
most no1 weeks - nole 345+
H2H: nole > rafa > fed
most big titles - nole 61
greatest W streak - nole DC 2010 - RG 2011
W% - nole
versatility:
most CGS - nole 2
most GM - nole 2
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and even in your example, nole had better results than fed! one slam less but had collected on all 4 slams and also had 2 WTF against 1 feds and 10 masters against 5 feds. so 17 big titles against 12 for fed.
nole (USO14-RG16) vs fed (halle05-dubai07):
slams 5 - 6
AO: 2 - 2
RG: 1 - 0
W: 1 - 2
USO: 1 - 2
---------
CGS and NCYGS: 1 - 0
WTF: 2 - 1
masters: 10 - 5 (no clay masters)
big titles: 17 - 12
nole has completed all 4 slams and had big titles on all surfaces while fed had no titles at all on clay (nole RG and 3 masters)!
in addition, nole had positive h2h against all his biggest rivals while fed had negative h2h vs his biggest rival (2-4 vs rafa)!
during his period, nole has also achieved nole slam, the biggest ATP points in history (16950), the best year (W15-RG16) and the best season in history (2015)!
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TearTheRoofOff
G.O.A.T.
One might surmise from this that Nole is a significantly superior tennis player on aggregate, so why exactly is that concept laughable?
I disagree. During Federer's run, no player had produced a staggering winning streaks and consistency at the top. Highlight on some of his records that will never likely to be broken:
- Reach 10 straight GS finals
- Reach 18 out of 19 GS finals
- Reach 23 consecutive GS semifinal
- Won 11 GS in 4 years(2004-2007)
- Held the #1 spot for 237 consecutive weeks
- Won 5 straight Wimbledon & USO between 2003-2008(including 7 straight Wimbledon finals)
- Won 24 of 24 straight finals
Djokovic had his run, but never came close to Federer's staggering numbers. He had an on/off year is the reason why he can't produce a long winning streaks and staying consistency at the top. Keep in mind Novak ended the year #1 in 2012 and 2014 with only 1 slam, and 2020 covid-19 he ended the #1 again. Unlike Federer who was a multiple slam winners in every of his 5 YE #1. Federer ended the #2 in 2017 with 2 slams + sunshine double, I'm sure that any tennis enthusiast would ranked Federer 2017 > Nole 2012, 2014 and 2020 despite he ended #1. Context is everything !
I value consistency, and when a player is at the top of his game in his peak/prime years, Federer blows Nole out of the water.
Hitman
Bionic Poster
Yes, but you are leaving out the fact that Djokovic also has not one but two multiple slam winning years 2016 and 2019 where he wasn't ranked number one, and in one of those years, no one won more slams than him, while in the other, he actually beat the other multiple slam winner of that season very easily in a slam final. That makes up for some of those single slam winning seasons. And 2020 covid impacted run cannot be held against him, he actually won a slam before covid happened and was on his best start to the season ever after winning Dubai, considering he also had ATP Cup win to his name, and he also wasn't allowed to defend his Wimbledon title, where he would have been favorite, as we have seen by the clear gap on grass currently and that Novak won the last two before Covid and then one the first one back after covid. He was the rightful year ending number one in 2020.
nolefam_2024
Bionic Poster
Yeah. Djokovic is the real number 1 since 2011 Wimbledon.
and he was stolen for 22 weeks as no1!
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