The Greatest Songs of the 20th Century

Been meaning to revive this thread but my old bud @MotoboXer took care of it for moi. Can't second his choices, though. :happydevil:

One thing before I start:

www.cnn.com

Mary Wilson, a founding member of 'The Supremes,' has died | CNN

Mary Wilson, a founding member of "The Supremes" has died at the age of 76.
www.cnn.com www.cnn.com

As I said the other day the Supremes are second only to the Shirelles among ATG girl groups, but that's before their increasingly naked catering to a White audience, the departure of the redoubtable Holland-Dozier-Holland songwriting team in '68 and, of course, the going solo of Ross beginning the following year. And since my last pick happened to be a non-HDH hit without Mary let's celebrate her legacy with her (semi-)original gang's 1st #1 single (which she reportedly said was "crap," LOL):


And with acknowledgement of this lesser-known part of her career (FYI I've had no trouble playing C-SPAN vids in all my travel abroad):

www.c-span.org

Mary Wilson on [Supreme Glamour]

Mary Wilson, formerly the Motown musical group the Supremes, talked about her book, [Supreme Glamour], in which she discussed her career and weighed in on federal copyright protection for recording artists. She was interviewed at Book Expo, the publishing industry's annual trade show in New York...
www.c-span.org www.c-span.org

Mary does seem to have been as hardworking and zestful as her friends and colleagues have been gushing in tribute. May the tireless Supreme rest in peace.

Actually one more thing. I know I included this Shirelles classic as a link last time but it's really too good to be buried in parentheses:


No doubt a great deal of the credit goes to Carole King and her then hubby Gerry Goffin, but their greatest collaboration still wouldn't carry half its power without Shirley Owens' achingly vulnerable and admirably unpretentious delivery, which also illustrates the difference between a great unvarnished singer like Shirley and an impeccably polished vocalist like Diana (or think, in cinematic terms, Ginger Rodgers vs. Eleanor Powell). I'm not ready to elevate this song to my 20th-century pantheon quite yet - it falters slightly in the bridge which doesn't differentiate itself enough from the rest - but it's close and deserves to be at least as well known as the ubiquitous Supremes hits.

On to the (belated) replies:

Ronaldo said:
Did not know before posting this collection that Spector had died.
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Figured that's what you meant, but I'd already linked to the AP obit and you (indirectly) replied to that post of mine, hence the confusion. I find that you post the most interesting music in this forum so don't let me or anyone else stop you. :cool:

BTW "Da Doo Ron Ron" would get my own vote as the quintessential Spector production, but the man himself considered this his crowning achievement:


Of course it bombed on the Billboard charts and practically ended his career. A somewhat fitting end for this obsessive neurotic who saw and experienced such ups and downs.

Genious at Work said:
Sure Berlin has produced "kitsch" stuff. He was a popular songwriter in the 10s and 20s, how could he not have? But your lack of appreciation of some of his works should not translate to the objective merit of much of his other production. The fact he had that range itself speaks about the man's talents.

I was overreacting for the sake of humor, but I think it is strange that Berlin wasn't even mentioned before I brought him up. The fact that White Christmas is a Christmas song doesn't detract at all in my view from its appeal. The beauty in that song is the melancholy feeling and a subdued sense of loss from the experiences in childhood that everyone can relate to. That is what makes it a great song. We could also add God Bless America as one of the great songs of the 20th Century. A song good enough to substitute for the National Anthem in many occasions, and I think better than America the Beautiful.
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No objection re: "White Christmas," but FYI "God Bless America" is precisely the kind of kitsch I had in mind from Berlin, and it's kinda hard to see this "sign" that you "have better taste than most people" when you wish the Berlin treacle to be our national anthem over "America the Beautiful." You may wanna check out this clip of the late Jessye Norman arguing eloquently why the latter should replace "The Star-Spangled Banner" instead:


Have Yourself a Merry Little Christmas is great also, I agree with you there. As for Unchained Melody vs Ebb Tide, I already said that most people don't agree with me. But I see this as a sign that I have better taste than most people. I have tried to rationalize why Ebb Tide is the superior song for me, and I think it is a combination of things. First of all, it is simply a more cohesive, classic, and classy song. Starting with the lyrics, the structure of the song, and the harmonic progression. I find Unchained Melody to be strangely disjointed in subtle ways that really grate me, the lyrics are corny, and it lacks the harmonic beauty of Ebb Tide. I really can't imagine Frank Sinatra singing Unchained Melody, for example, though he has a nice version of Ebb Tide. In addition, I find that the Righteous Brothers' Bobby Hatfield rendition of Ebb Tide is far superior to Unchained Melody. I think it is probably one of the best performances by a male singer in a popular song ever, and definitely my favorite.
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Leaving aside the issue of "harmonic progression" - FYI "Unchained" covers as much range as the notoriously difficult "Star-Spangled" (an octave and a fifth) while demanding two extra notes for good measure - here are the lyrics of "Unchained Melody" vs. "Ebb Tide":

Woah, my love, my darling
I've hungered for your touch
A long, lonely time
And time goes by so slowly
And time can do so much
Are you still mine?
I need your love
I need your love
God speed your love to me
Lonely rivers flow
To the sea, to the sea
To the open arms of the sea, yeah
Lonely rivers sigh
"Wait for me, wait for me"
I'll be coming home, wait for me
Woah, my love, my darling
I've hungered, hungered for your touch
A long, lonely time
And time goes by so slowly
And time can do so much
Are you still mine?
I need your love
I need your love
God speed your love to me
Click to expand...

First the tide rushes in
Plants a kiss on the shore
Then rolls out to sea
And the sea is very still once more
So I rush to your side
Like the oncoming tide
With one burning thought
Will your arms open wide
At last we're face to face
And as we kiss through an embrace
I can tell, I, I can feel
You are love, you are real
Really mine in the rain
In the dark, in the sun
Like the tide at its ebb
I'm at peace in the web of your arms
Ebb tide
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I don't see how anyone with functional English can conclude that the former lyrics are cornier than the latter. You sure you've compared them carefully?

SystemicAnomaly said:
To be even clearer, Miles Davis' rendering of Concierto de Aranjuez is based on the Adagio (2nd movment) of the Rodrigo composition but not quite the same. Miles and Gil Evans reinterpreted the Rodrigo's Adagio and expanded on it. Their use of the Rodrigo melody is more of just a starting point. Their arrangment starts with Rodrigo's guitar melody (on flugelhorn) but then diverges from it. The mid-section of their rendering is not related to Rodrigo's composition but it does relate to other compositions on the (Sketches of Spain) album. The Davis/Evans arrangement then comes back to Rodrigo's melody at the end-- somewhat altered.

A number of other artists have performed and recorded versions of Concierto that are based on the Miles Davis recording. Chick Corea also has also done a version of Concierto de Aranjuez. But often, he just uses the Rodrigo Adagio melody as an intro to his own composition, Spain.

In the early 1970s, before I had heard Miles Davis recording, I had learned (part of) Rodrigo's Adagio on classical guitar. But it's been decades since Ive played it.
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Of course no jazz performance is going to a carbon copy of another, and FYI you're talking to a jazz (OK, bop) fanatic who'd probably rate Miles one of the 10 most important musicians of the 20th century. Just meant to say it's misleading to name him here as the original music was written by someone else.

Now if you meant to nominate the Davis interpretation itself as one of the century's greatest "songs," I disagree. Despite its reputation Sketches of Spain is too safe and dare I say pedestrian compared to Kind of Blue or Bitches Brew.

Good for you to have tried your hand at classical guitar, though. Did you ever study "Asturias"?


Strictly speaking it's a 19th-century piece, but all the guitar transcriptions/arrangements (Segovia's being the most famous, of course) were all done in the 20th century so this almost qualifies. :happydevil:
 
NonP said:
No objection re: "White Christmas," but FYI "God Bless America" is precisely the kind of kitsch I had in mind from Berlin, and it's kinda hard to see this "sign" that you "have better taste than most people" when you wish the Berlin treacle to be our national anthem over "America the Beautiful." You may wanna check out this clip of the late Jessye Norman arguing eloquently why the latter should replace "The Star-Spangled Banner" instead:

Click to expand...
Yes, I do have better taste than the vast majority of people (though as a logical statement this is by nature unverifiable, it makes sense that I do, since my tastes are often, though not always, in the minority).

"America the Beautiful" is a nice song, nothing more and nothing less. It lacks the emotional range that both God Bless America and The Star Spangled Banner (to a lesser extent) have. It is a more contemplative than exhortative song. Nothing wrong with that, but it is not the type of song fitting for a National Anthem.

I don't need to listen to anybody else's views on a song to decide what I like and what I don't. I have the experience to know what pleases me in terms of artistic satisfaction, and everybody's strings resonate at a different frequency. The only time I seek for people's opinions is when I want to expand on my understanding or appreciation of something I like in the first place, and in all other regards people's opinions are inconsequential to me.

I don't think you know what "kitsch" means. I don't think this is "kitsch". What do you think that word means?


NonP said:
Leaving aside the issue of "harmonic progression" - FYI "Unchained" covers as much range as the notoriously difficult "Star-Spangled" (an octave and a fifth) while demanding two extra notes for good measure - here are the lyrics of "Unchained Melody" vs. "Ebb Tide":
Click to expand...

I didn't count the note range and I really don't care. The impression I have is that Ebb Tide is a harder song to sing than Unchain Melody because most of the song is sung in the highest registers and it holds notes in the highest registers longer than Unchain Melody. Then again, I am guessing as I am not a singer.


NonP said:
I don't see how anyone with functional English can conclude that the former lyrics are cornier than the latter. You sure you've compared them carefully?
Click to expand...
My English is functional enough to know what "functional" means. And yes, Unchained Melody is a dreadful combination of the corny and the horny. Ebb Tide is much more poetic, basically a musical allegory.

There are a couple of exercises that anybody can do to ascertain the register, category, or classification of a song. In this case, you can try to picture a classic singer like Sinatra singing Unchained Melody. The reason why you can't is because it's not that type of song.

The other thing is to attempt to transcribe the song and try to play it at the piano. Ebb Tide is amenable to that exercise, but Unchained Melody is a fooking mess. When a song doesn't translate well to the piano it usually means it is crap with a frosty gold covering. The fact that there can be so many different notes in the first syllable of Unchained Melody before the poor sod singing it has had a chance to utter a single word confirms this view handily.

You are welcome.
 
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Ronaldo said:
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I think this version is definitely overcooked and the performances are very rough.

My favorite versions are the Righteous Brothers' one and the Matt Monro version. You have to give it to Phil "I didn't shoot that woman" Spector, he really used the Wall of Sound for good effect in the Righteous Brothers' version.


 
Greatest of the 20th century? Not even close.

max. vol. req..


lyrical dishonorable mention: Mungo Jerry's "In the Summertime" had an obnoxious but awesome line:
"if her daddy's rich, take her out for a meal,
. if her daddy's poor, just do what you feel..."
(could've sworn they were from S.F.; didn't know they wiz British).
 
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Noticed Lee Moses never recorded again after 1971. Stuck on Motown and Stax back then. Discovered Ike & Tina Turner lived upstairs in a duplex from my In-laws.
 
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