More spin than the other way round and higher launch angle. More power too so somewhat harder to control. You don't lose spin over its lifetime, imo an issue when putting the gut in the crosses.
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The gut/poly thread
- Thread starter SpinToWin
- Start date
ryushen21
Legend
Similar feel. HR adds some. Firmness to the bed and gives a nice crisp response. You won't feel the same bite as LT though.
I go 55/53 in my Blade Pro.
No.
Nostradamus
Bionic Poster
not possible. string in the Mains is the string that brushes Up on the ball creating topspin,, Not the cross strings
The mains have to easily move along the cross strings to snapback and generate topspin. Soft strings like gut aren't very slippery so when put in the crosses, it will impede the poly mains from moving easily hence less spin. Mainly an issue when the coating wears off a bit or the gut starts fraying.not possible. string in the Mains is the string that brushes Up on the ball creating topspin,, Not the cross strings
The other way round the gut can move easily along the slippery poly cross. That doesn't change even if the gut or the poly gets older in general. Some polys are better than this than others.
Sounds like you never tried it though so try it before denying it.
Nostradamus
Bionic Poster
yea but string has to grab the ball and create topspin, its not snapback,, snapback at what ? at the felt of the ball ? no String has to Grab the Felt of the ball and push on it at supersonic like speed, and making topspin
happyandbob
Legend
TWU and some other tennis physics sites have shown that even though having grippy main strings enhances spin, the largest contributor to spin is the snapback of the mains, so having slick cross strings is an important part of that. Gut grips the ball well enough, but you need poly in the crosses to make sure the gut has maximum snapbacknot possible. string in the Mains is the string that brushes Up on the ball creating topspin,, Not the cross strings
String up two racquets side by side. Gut/poly and poly/gut. See for yourself
There's ton of material to read up on the TWU or get the book on Physics and Technology of tennis. Go and have fun.
Basically what @happyandbob said.
ryushen21
Legend
This.
By that logic it would not be possible to generate topspin with round strings. Yet, you can. Go find a different forum to bait.
jmacdaununder2
Legend
Oh oh, the ‘b’ word - they’re on to you…
J011yroger
Talk Tennis Guru
ryushen21
Legend
You could hit topspin with a wooden spoon.
J011yroger
Talk Tennis Guru
happyandbob
Legend
I’ve been playing 1.35 gut x 1.20 Restring Sync. Really excellent snapback and feel, and the thick mains keep playing well after I cut out the sync and restring when it goes dead
@happyandbob - Per an earlier post of yours in December, is this in a customize 2013 Steam (BLX Steam 100), getting 9-20 hours total from the gut, and I presume restringing Sync about half way through that time period?
happyandbob
Legend
For singles I use 2020 Ezone 100 and for doubles I use 2013 Steam 105S, all same weight/swingweight/balance. The Steam gives me a little extra real estate at the net and it has no peer for topspin lobs or hitting dippers at people's feet.
The Steam is so open, I was sometimes eating through 1.30 gut in 9 hours with Rexxxer crosses, with the Ezone I was getting about 20 on average. That wasn't long enough for how expensive gut is these days, so I moved both up to 1.35 gut and I'm getting a lot more life, even with dropping down to 1.20 crosses. And I'm getting equal spin production and slightly better feel/pocketing.
Djinn
Semi-Pro
Whenever I play gut, I’ve always used Luxilon ALU Rough in the crosses. But looking into more recent strings like Sync had me wondering if there are better strings for crosses at this point.
Anyone have some comparisons with Gut/ALU rough vs Gut/other crosses? Mainly Restring Sync since that’s the one I’m most interested in. Thanks.
Anyone have some comparisons with Gut/ALU rough vs Gut/other crosses? Mainly Restring Sync since that’s the one I’m most interested in. Thanks.
anfield
Semi-Pro
I'm just curious, does ALU Rough have a pitted texture that basically has holes in it and the circumference is still perfectly round that allows better snapback or is that KB Max Power?
Edit: Also, I have used 1.25mm max power rough as a cross with 16g VS in mains on PS97. I tried normal max power and other smooth strings for a cross and noticed at lower racket head speed the rough really helps with slicing and dicing, the smooth cross snapback action needs more racket head speed to work. That's my only lasting affinity for the rough, well dimpled crosses.
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How would it compare to 4G Soft? I love 4G soft as a cross but it’s hurting my arm. Need something softer I think.
Never tried 4G soft
Say Chi Sin Lo
G.O.A.T.
So, after damn near a decade with Gut x Kirschbaum Max Power. I'm committing to a switch to a rather expensive setup of Gut x Yonex Poly Tour Strike.
Con:
- Well... pretty damn expensive if can't find a way to to get Yonex Poly Tour Strike on the cheap. Luckily, I can use the "E"lectronic Bay to source less than retail Yonex reels
- This is a personal preference. I don't like the looks of dark strings. Even the Grey version is practically black.
- Could be me, but Yonex's "1.25mm" feels way thinner than that, and I think it's skewing me to think I'm snapping my gut mains earlier.
- The slickness or the perceived thinness is wearing out my gut mains faster, that or it's granting me more access to spin and wearing out my gut mains faster.
Pros:
- Stringbed feels great. I know crosses don't contribute to much, but the addition of Strike in the crosses does make the stringbed even more lively.
- Stringbed feels consistent throughout until it snaps. I average about 10 - 15 hours. It's quite nice that on the 8th hour, the stringbed still feels fresh.
- I think I am getting more access to spin. That, or I'm just finding ways to justify the slightly accelerated gut mains wear.
I'm enjoying the playability thus far. But man... with the recent price increase, this setup at full price is very expensive. Luckily, my reel came out to about $170 from the Bay, and in a hybrid, comes out to about $5/racquet.
Con:
- Well... pretty damn expensive if can't find a way to to get Yonex Poly Tour Strike on the cheap. Luckily, I can use the "E"lectronic Bay to source less than retail Yonex reels
- This is a personal preference. I don't like the looks of dark strings. Even the Grey version is practically black.
- Could be me, but Yonex's "1.25mm" feels way thinner than that, and I think it's skewing me to think I'm snapping my gut mains earlier.
- The slickness or the perceived thinness is wearing out my gut mains faster, that or it's granting me more access to spin and wearing out my gut mains faster.
Pros:
- Stringbed feels great. I know crosses don't contribute to much, but the addition of Strike in the crosses does make the stringbed even more lively.
- Stringbed feels consistent throughout until it snaps. I average about 10 - 15 hours. It's quite nice that on the 8th hour, the stringbed still feels fresh.
- I think I am getting more access to spin. That, or I'm just finding ways to justify the slightly accelerated gut mains wear.
I'm enjoying the playability thus far. But man... with the recent price increase, this setup at full price is very expensive. Luckily, my reel came out to about $170 from the Bay, and in a hybrid, comes out to about $5/racquet.
anfield
Semi-Pro
Isn't Poly Tour Fire supposed to be a better cross because of its slick nature? Im not sure about its tension maintenance though?
Say Chi Sin Lo
G.O.A.T.
Fire ain't round.
ShahofTennis
Hall of Fame
thenewbig3
Hall of Fame
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happyandbob
Legend
13 hours of hitting (26 hours of doubles). I was planning to cut out sync at 15 hours but looks like it won’t be worth it.
So 9 hours with 1.30 x rexxxer. Got more out of 1.35 x 1.20 sync but not enough. I got excited at 11 hours but the last couple of hours really sliced through the gut.
I’m going to order some 1.25 when sync is back in stock to see if that will stretch it out more.
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Say Chi Sin Lo
G.O.A.T.
delosalpes
Rookie
@Trip (or anyone else with experience) I've been toying with the idea of restringing my crosses on my NG/poly hybrid set ups. I do my own stringing and a bit skittish about trying it. What would you say are best practices? I understand that I ought to string the crosses on the "other" unnotched side of the mains, but the key question in my mind is: do restring the crosses at my original cross reference tension or a bit lower. I don't pre-string the NG, so I presume that there has been good amount of tension loss on the mains. If I originally strung at 22/21kg, should I for example restring the crosses at 20 or 19kg? Thank you in advance for you insights.
Happi
Hall of Fame
Pat Rafter is answering your question in this instagram post
Interesting that he goes for a very thin poly in the crosses.
I haven't actually tried that and in theory doesn't sound good to me. Maybe though the super thin poly contributes so little that you get longevity by just relying on the gut and minimising the poly influence.
He does use a small prestige with a dense pattern though, I can imagine that works better in a frame like that.
delosalpes
Rookie
Thanks! I appreciate it, but that doesn't answer my question.
I usually restring the crosses at the same tension as before when I do. Besides the initial loss the NG doesn't lose that much tension so if you want to get back a similar feel as the fresh bed I'd go with the same tension.
Mount the racquet before you cut out the cross but I imagine you've read that in here before.
I did try before to got 2kg lower when restinging the cross but felt like I had less control than with the fresher bed.
happyandbob
Legend
I go 3 lbs lower when I restring the crosses.
Even though NG holds tension well it does still lose tension. If you restring the crosses at the same original tension you’ll find the shape of the hoop ends up slightly longer and narrower as the mains can’t resist the tension of the crosses as well due to tension loss.
You won’t even have to loosen the mounts at 12 and 6 to remove the frame. Those will be loose because the crosses pull the mains slightly longer.
That’s Pat Cash…
Presuming you have a 6-point mount machine and are careful enough about properly locking the frame down, what you're proposing is doable, even if it might not be optimal.
As for reference tension on the crosses, you can certainly drop tension, but you'll be outputting a lot lower DT than the all-fresh string job, which may increase launch angle and automatic depth enough to the point where you feel like its too uncontrollable, after which you may have to raise cross tension on the next cross replacement, to try and find a better middle ground. A bit of hoop warping may come with the territory as well, but under most circumstances, nothing super crazy to worry about.
Ultimately, the only way you're going to prove to yourself whether this is doable and/or worth it, is to give it a try yourself. If you're that concerned about damaging one of your main frames, then perhaps try it on a less-important frame that's close enough in layup density and string pattern, as a "test mule" first. Then if signs are positive enough and you've built enough confidence in pulling off the string job with enough care, transition to one of your main frames.
Hope some of that helps!
delosalpes
Rookie
jmacdaununder2
Legend
Just because the racquet doesn’t break during stringing doesn’t mean that you haven’t accelerated structural fatigue to a small degree, as you are applying slightly more stress to the frame than the amount that occurs during routine stringing.
Some folks enjoy their frames softer than they are when new, so this mightn’t even be a bad thing.
We all know about Babolat’s stringing elf theory re their pro stocks…
Some folks enjoy their frames softer than they are when new, so this mightn’t even be a bad thing.
We all know about Babolat’s stringing elf theory re their pro stocks…
@happyandbob - Sorry I missed this earlier (for whatever reason your @ mention of me didn't trigger an active link... weird). Will be interested to hear your update on how the thicker gauge of Sync works out, if you haven't done it already.
happyandbob
Legend
I have a reel of 1.20 and a reel of 1.25 coming
I loved the 1.20 enough to know that I’ll use both reels. The 1.20 was sawing through the gut too quickly and it was very springy when I tried to hit with it on a 96F day.
We had a cold snap this week and it played great at 70F. Looking forward to trying out the 1.25 sync
anfield
Semi-Pro
I have some new sticks coming Monday and it's going to be 95-100 degrees and humid in the Mid-Atlantic area this week. I'm only going to play at 6pm so it should be ok since I'll be in the shade. Just curious if you have a hot and humid set up? A TW tech said to try black Multifeel in mains for rain/wet, swamp racket.
@veelium - I presume the name obviously implies this, but do you know if Hawk Touch Rough is or isn't just renamed, relaunched Hawk Rough, in the Touch sub-silo? Or is the base formulation actually based on Hawk Touch, so the actual string is different from what was Hawk Rough? Any crumbs or insights, much appreciated.
Well, from the Dennis Fabian interview a while back, Hawk Touch Rough is the same as Hawk Rough and was always based on Hawk Touch.
From my short experiences with Hawk touch I thought that it felt different than Hawk Rough but I don't think I'm the greatest judge of full bed polys and I never tried hybriding with Hawk Touch.
I have a mate's leftover Hawk touch reel lying around since a year ago but still haven't had enough motivation to actually test it.
Colour wise they do look the same and they feel extremely similar when holding them in hand.
Don't search my old posts where I might have confidently said that they are not the same
@veelium - Thanks a lot. That's great info. If you and/or @ryushen21 ever get a chance to do an A vs. B comparison between the now-discontinued Hawk Rough and new Hawk Touch Rough, I and I'm sure others would be highly interested to see if either or both of you can discern any differences, and what those are, if they exist.
Definitely gonna do that
Not sure when it's officially out, the depot has it listed with the new pictures and name but 'out of stock'.
Nostradamus
Bionic Poster
is thsi good ?
ryushen21
Legend
It's on my list
