The gut/poly thread

So after a long speach from my new stringer why i should take another cross then Head hawk, i decided to take his word for it. Tomorrow i'll test pacific though gut 1.30 main with luxilon ace 1.12 cross. Both at 23kg, hand pre stretched gut.

I'll let you guys know.
 
fibonacci888 said:
So after a long speach from my new stringer why i should take another cross then Head hawk, i decided to take his word for it. Tomorrow i'll test pacific though gut 1.30 main with luxilon ace 1.12 cross. Both at 23kg, hand pre stretched gut.

I'll let you guys know.
Click to expand...

I'm curious to know what his arguments were to be honest :)
 
SpinToWin said:
I'm curious to know what his arguments were to be honest :)
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The head hawk was to thick in his opinion. If i had ordered the 1.20 it could have worked. The ace is extremely thin and slick according to him.

He strings at Roland Garros and several other big tournaments and is considered to have great expertise so after he matched my rackets tuning wise and we debated about the strings I decided to take his word.

He also stated VS gut is better than Though gut? What's your opinion?
 
fibonacci888 said:
The head hawk was to thick in his opinion. If i had ordered the 1.20 it could have worked. The ace is extremely thin and slick according to him.

He strings at Roland Garros and several other big tournaments and is considered to have great expertise so after he matched my rackets tuning wise and we debated about the strings I decided to take his word.

He also stated VS gut is better than Though gut? What's your opinion?
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I don't agree with him, but hey, that's fine I guess. VS is tough to beat in performance, but its price isn't really justified (it's not like it performs way better than Tough Gut or lasts longer).

As to Ace, I'm curious to see what your experiences with it will be, but I would never consider it as a cross. Poor tension maintenance and by modern poly standards not slick. Just for comparison: Hawk 17 loses around 7lbs of tension less and it is way slicker (0.40 units in TW COF research table). I know data can only do so much but when there's such a big difference... Pros use strings that they switch out every few games, hence why Luxilon is so loved by them (high performance but little playability duration). This is not ideal for rec players who want to get as much time as possible out of their strings (especially with the price tag of gut).

I probably will come off as arrogant for saying this, but I believe his recommendation was nonsense (for a rec player) based on the unfounded premise that thin strings are the best for the crosses and that LXN>all else in performance. But hey, I rarely if ever agree with other stringers and their methods.
 
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SpinToWin said:
I don't agree with him, but hey, that's fine I guess. VS is tough to beat in performance, but its price isn't really justified (it's not like it performs way better than Tough Gut or lasts longer).

As to Ace, I'm curious to see what your experiences with it will be, but I would never consider it as a cross. Poor tension maintenance and by modern poly standards not slick. Just for comparison: Hawk 17 loses around 7lbs of tension less and it is way slicker (0.40 units in TW COF research table). I know data can only do so much but when there's such a big difference... Pros use strings that they switch out every few games, hence why Luxilon is so loved by them (high performance but little playability duration). This is not ideal for rec players who want to get as much time as possible out of their strings (especially with the price tag of gut).

I probably will come off as arrogant for saying this, but I believe his recommendation was nonsense (for a rec player) based on the unfounded premise that thin strings are the best for the crosses and that LXN>all else in performance. But hey, I rarely if ever agree with other stringers and their methods.
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STW, no absolutely not arrogant. For the record I definately value your opinion, but went with the stringers advice this time. I've played about two hours with the setup now and love it. Of course I have no gut/poly reference and after two hours everything probably still feels great. I noticed an increase in spin and feel, but less power compared to my volkl psycho setup but not too much. Not sure but after half an hour the string apeared to started to play better. Almost as a breakin period.

An argument why the luxilon should stay fine is that the cross string doesn't do much for tension as the main string does most of the work (correct?)
I'm curious to durabillity and consistence in play. I'll report back to you guys.

Now to find a guy to swap the head hawk 1.25 for 1.20.
 
I'm teetering on a Gut / Poly hybrid but first am going to try a Gut / soft multi for safety reasons (hard hat and arm brace on :) )

I've found both my racquets with all nat gut beds played better and better as they break in, so guess gut/poly is no difference.

I promise I will get to gut / poly one day;)
 
speedysteve said:
I'm teetering on a Gut / Poly hybrid but first am going to try a Gut / soft multi for safety reasons (hard hat and arm brace on :) )

I've found both my racquets with all nat gut beds played better and better as they break in, so guess gut/poly is no difference.

I promise I will get to gut / poly one day;)
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Rather than gut/multi give ChicagoJack's signature gut/monogut zx a try. There is no point in using multi in the crosses, as it doesn't add anything to a full bed of gut.

Once you're ready for poly in the crosses, one of the softest options out there is Signum Pro Outbreak.
 
fibonacci888 said:
STW, no absolutely not arrogant. For the record I definately value your opinion, but went with the stringers advice this time. I've played about two hours with the setup now and love it. Of course I have no gut/poly reference and after two hours everything probably still feels great. I noticed an increase in spin and feel, but less power compared to my volkl psycho setup but not too much. Not sure but after half an hour the string apeared to started to play better. Almost as a breakin period.

An argument why the luxilon should stay fine is that the cross string doesn't do much for tension as the main string does most of the work (correct?)
I'm curious to durabillity and consistence in play. I'll report back to you guys.

Now to find a guy to swap the head hawk 1.25 for 1.20.
Click to expand...

Tension loss does play a role as high tension loss means that the tension differential between mains and crosses will increase with time which changes the way the stringbed responds.

Additionally, some strings change their characteristics over time, even in the crosses (the Alu Power example comes to mind).

By the way, you don't need to switch out the 1.25 for the 1.20, both play fine. I am using the 1.25 and I'm really enjoying it for instance.
 
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maxpotapov said:
^^Signum Pro Outbreak - tell us more!
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I had a thread on the string and one of the guys tried using it in the crosses and really enjoyed it. He is the better person to ask.

Edit: I found his comments on the setup:

kicker75 said:
Just received and strung up my racquet with SP Outbreak (1.18mm). It's a non-textured round string and extremely slick, just as slick as my WC silverstring even. It was pretty easy to string (more flexible than WC, especially at the last crosses) but not as easy as a multi. The one thing that threw me for a sec was that it's a little shorter than you're normal 40ft string packs (it's 12m) (stringing 18X20 pattern) so I actually had to bridge the string to the gripper at the last cross.

Will play with it this weekend and will let you know how it all plays.
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kicker75 said:
Hit with Signum Pro Outbreak for a couple of hours today, and here's my initial reactions.

(Setup - Head Graphene Speed Pro - 18X20, Wlison gut 17 in mains at 58lbs, SP Outbreak 1.18mm in crosses at 55lbs. Previously using WC Silverstring in crosses)

Outbreak is pretty much dead on to what StW suggested. It's round, slick, much like Silverstring, and the gut mains snap back in a similar fashion against it; just a touch less than SS. I found it to be pretty similar in playability to SS as well. Only differences, and they were slight, is that the SS gives a bit more bite, thus a bit more spin. SS also seems to feel a touch crisper when initially strung. However, on the other side, Outbreak is a softer string, and it's a little easier on the arm (which is why I'm experimenting with a new cross in the first place) Outbreak feels like a very soft co-poly. I know some describe it as a hybrid of poly & multi, but to me, it does not have characteristics similar to multis.

Anyway, so far I like it, and it's easier on my elbow, so gonna keep going with it. Will let all know about how it holds tension in the future.
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kicker75 said:
StW. Just wanted to thank you again for the recommendation on this string. I've now played with it for a substantial amount of time, and I have to say, it plays very very close to my old setup of Weiss Cannon Silverstring in the crosses, but without the arm pain!

I've even been playing without my usual elbow brace and no problems thus far. It's noticeably softer than WCSS, and it has been giving the same amount of snapback/spin. Tension seems to hold up pretty well, and no noticeable wear differences either.

I will say I did up the tension on my NG mains though to get it dialed in more than when I first started using Outbreak, but that's actually improved the feel of the stringed to me.

I'll be soon purchasing a reel of this stuff I think, since I have to internationally order it...so it does take time to get the string.

Thanks again and cheers!
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Muppet said:
I have a set of Outlast 1.20 that I'm planning to use in my signature racquet with Klip Legend mains. Would it be better to use 1.30g for the gut or 1.25? I've used 1.23/1.36 for Cyberflash/Hexy Fiber @48/53 and that worked well, but I'm wondering if a smaller gauge difference would work better with the soft string in the mains? Also, could you make a tension recommendation? I basically counter punch from the baseline and come to net whenever I see an opening
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Cont'd:

Does anyone have experience between firmer frames vs. softer frames using this kind of hybrid? My MuscleWeave (59 RA) plays remarkably with a poly/multi setup. I'm just worried that doing the reverse, putting soft on the mains and stiff on the crosses, won't work well. Can anyone compare this setup in different types of frames? I'm sure a full bed of gut would be nice in my MW. But I do want to try gut/poly as long as it may work well.

Also, I've gone for Pacific Classic 16L instead of Klip. While I wanted the crispness of Legend gut, Pacific Classic is supposed to remain playable longer. And I ordered a set of Big Hitter Silver 1.20 to lend some crispness and bite to my racquet. My string order will be here on Monday.
 
Even though gut/4G has dented crosses, the feel is still perfect, after 20+h of play. I think 4G with its control oriented feel is perfect in taming down the power of gut mains. The feel on volleys and slices is godly, and I was still hitting all the topspin that I need. I like the feel so much that I seriously consider restringing with 4G crosses again.
 
torpantennis said:
Even though gut/4G has dented crosses, the feel is still perfect, after 20+h of play. I think 4G with its control oriented feel is perfect in taming down the power of gut mains. The feel on volleys and slices is godly, and I was still hitting all the topspin that I need. I like the feel so much that I seriously consider restringing with 4G crosses again.
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I can see the appeal for those who can tolerate the stiffness, but I cannot. My elbow twinges after only just a few minutes with the setup unfortunately.
 
torpantennis said:
Even though gut/4G has dented crosses, the feel is still perfect, after 20+h of play. I think 4G with its control oriented feel is perfect in taming down the power of gut mains. The feel on volleys and slices is godly, and I was still hitting all the topspin that I need. I like the feel so much that I seriously consider restringing with 4G crosses again.
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Maybe cheaper/softer gut (uncoated for example) will help not to dent 4G crosses?
 
SpinToWin said:
I can see the appeal for those who can tolerate the stiffness, but I cannot. My elbow twinges after only just a few minutes with the setup unfortunately.
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TBH, I'm a bit afraid of developing wrist/elbow pains with it. Dented crosses, one should NOT play with them I think? So far no problems, but that doesn't mean a thing.
 
torpantennis said:
I've though about the same. Since NXT Tour did not dent the 4G crosses, there should be a gut like that. Maybe Pacific classic gut?
Click to expand...

I doubt it. Gut is significantly more resilient than multis, so that makes the difference regarding the notching I'd say... At best an uncoated gut (I think Klip Legend is an example of that) would work.
 
SpinToWin said:
I doubt it. Gut is significantly more resilient than multis, so that makes the difference regarding the notching I'd say... At best an uncoated gut (I think Klip Legend is an example of that) would work.
Click to expand...

So what would be the most control oriented cross (bar 4G) for gut mains, with some resistance to notching?
 
torpantennis said:
So what would be the most control oriented cross (bar 4G) for gut mains, with some resistance to notching?
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Hard to tell. Solinco Outlast certainly is a solid option in this regard. Low powered, very slick and denting resistant, however it is much softer than 4G. There are many options though, a few of which I hope to test soon.
 
SpinToWin said:
Hard to tell. Solinco Outlast certainly is a solid option in this regard. Low powered, very slick and denting resistant, however it is much softer than 4G. There are many options though, a few of which I hope to test soon.
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Outlast loses tension like ALU, according to TWU. Max power seems like a winner, great tension maintenance. Is it control oriented?

Another string that loses way less tension is Focus Hex. Maybe that hexagonal profile would saw through gut, avoiding it from denting poly crosses?
 
torpantennis said:
Outlast loses tension like ALU, according to TWU. Max power seems like a winner, great tension maintenance. Is it control oriented?

Another string that loses way less tension is Focus Hex. Maybe that hexagonal profile would saw through gut, avoiding it from denting poly crosses?
Click to expand...

Max Power offers great control. It is one of the strings I wanted to try next and worth a look for sure (I had already said in the OP that I want to test this particular string as a cross ;) )
 
TimothyO

torpantennis said:
Outlast loses tension like ALU, according to TWU. Max power seems like a winner, great tension maintenance. Is it control oriented?

Another string that loses way less tension is Focus Hex. Maybe that hexagonal profile would saw through gut, avoiding it from denting poly crosses?
Click to expand...

I think TimothyO is pretty knowledgeable about Gut/MSV Focus Hex, if he could help.
 
I'm looking to get a hit this weekend and I really want to use the PS 85 (but without arm pain), so I looked through my string collection and found a half set of Head Sonic Pro Edge 16, which seems like an interesting option for a cross string. Just replaced 4G with this for one of the racquets, curious to see how it performs.

2015_01_21_22_19_46.jpg

2015_01_21_22_20_17.jpg


strung up Sonic Pro Edge at 20.5kg since it loses more tension than 4G.
 
SpinToWin said:
strung up Sonic Pro Edge at 20.5kg since it loses more tension than 4G.
Click to expand...

Could be good actually. I played with that string in a full bed a few times and found the edges dulled down quickly but it was still slick.
 
Nojoke said:
Tourna Black Zone is a great cross in a gut/poly hybrid.
Click to expand...

Interesting, option, I'll have a look at it.

By the way, has TW changed their measurements for tension loss? I am sure that the values for certain strings used to be much different.
 
So I'm trying to convince some people at my club of the benefits of gut/poly, as they think poly/gut is the usual option... Which pros do we know are using gut/poly hybrids?

I tried searching but couldn't find a solid list, just a random post here or there. I think I need some real world examples rather than just explaining the concept to them.
 
radically_prestigious_guy said:
So I'm trying to convince some people at my club of the benefits of gut/poly, as they think poly/gut is the usual option... Which pros do we know are using gut/poly hybrids?

I tried searching but couldn't find a solid list, just a random post here or there. I think I need some real world examples rather than just explaining the concept to them.
Click to expand...

Federer and Djokovic should be pretty convincing pro examples.. :lol:
 
radically_prestigious_guy said:
So I'm trying to convince some people at my club of the benefits of gut/poly, as they think poly/gut is the usual option... Which pros do we know are using gut/poly hybrids?

I tried searching but couldn't find a solid list, just a random post here or there. I think I need some real world examples rather than just explaining the concept to them.
Click to expand...

First of all you can explain why to use natural gut in the mains (advantages).

As to pros who use that setup... Federer, Djokovic, Sharapova, Williams, Kohlschreiber...

You really should use that more as support for the explanation why gut in the mains is better. If necessary you can just link them to one of the explanations on here ;)
 
SpinToWin said:
First of all you can explain why to use natural gut in the mains (advantages).

As to pros who use that setup... Federer, Djokovic, Sharapova, Williams, Kohlschreiber...

You really should use that more as support for the explanation why gut in the mains is better. If necessary you can just link them to one of the explanations on here ;)
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I've nearly won them over! I went through why natural gut mains were a good thing, but they were reluctant to believe that it was so good if pro's weren't using it (which lead me to finding examples).

These guys are coaches at my club, so they are good players. Just that most of the players at my club use poly so they were surprised I was investing in gut mains.
 
SpinToWin said:
I am... It's the dark ages here in Germany in terms of string knowledge unfortunately.
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I think it's because my club is set up to only promote 3 types of strings for certain players: synthetic gut for casual players, multifilament for the senior players and poly for high performance players. Gut isn't even on the radar.
 
radically_prestigious_guy said:
I think it's because my club is set up to only promote 3 types of strings for certain players: synthetic gut for casual players, multifilament for the senior players and poly for high performance players. Gut isn't even on the radar.
Click to expand...

Most people don't even know the difference between poly, synthetic gut and multi around here... I have nothing to work with and need to make decisions for customers regarding what string is suited to them. A PITA to say the least...

Will be hitting tomorrow morning, will report on my findings :)
 
Nice one! Summer rain is here so I probably won't be playing unless it clears up. Having the crosses restrung at 45lbs on my PS95 racquets so hopefully that let's the gut slide a bit better.
 
Just ordered Max Power 17. It'll be interesting to see how the notching pattern and the crisp feel change from 4G. I'll get it strung as soon as I get the strings.

My gut/4G was at 52/46. I liked the power level and the feel but would like a bit lower launch angle. Maybe 50/48 with Max Power?
 
torpantennis said:
Just ordered Max Power 17. It'll be interesting to see how the notching pattern and the crisp feel change from 4G. I'll get it strung as soon as I get the strings.

My gut/4G was at 52/46. I liked the power level and the feel but would like a bit lower launch angle. Maybe 50/48 with Max Power?
Click to expand...

Sounds good to me. If you want a direct comparison though, string them up at the same tension (tension loss is pretty similar for these strings actually). Anyways, looking forward to hearing what you think about it! :)
 
That's true, one should change one thing at a time. Maybe I'll go 52/48, that should have a similar feel as Max Power is a bit less stiff than 4G. :)
 
So I just had a hit on carpet with the setups… It's only been a few times I've played since being gone for a few months due to injury, so I still feel slightly awkward at moving on the court and positioning (especially at the net), but it's getting there. Anyways, here's my experiences with the setups:

Tonic+/SPE: Really intriguing setup... It felt firm and yet it was quite comfortable and there was ample access to power and spin. When I really went for my shots it felt like I was obliterating them as they just exploded off the stringbed. The pop of SPE along with the power of gut made this a potent setup. The control still was very good though and I never felt like the ball launched on me. Depth was a lot easier to achieve than with the 4G setup and comfort improved massively. String movement is quite good at the moment, but I'll keep an eye on it. The launch angle is lower than 4G. The 4G setup felt like it pocketed the ball slightly better even though it felt firmer, which (along with the lower power and the increased ball grab) made it better for volleying. The feel was quite crisp. I feel like I still need more time to really understand this setup though, so I'll try to hit again soon. Favorite shot: Forehand cross court - powerful with lots of spin, very heavy.

Tonic+/Hawk: So comfortable and plush. It really feels like hitting the ball with a pillow once the strings have broken in. Access to spin is good and flat balls are a dream. What worked extremely well was the slice, which was nearly impossible to return (playing on carpet helps). I struggled a bit up at net, as the plush feel and extreme ball pocketing along with the good power, made it harder to control the volleys with stick. Higher tension would have helped here. From the baseline though, this setup ruled. It was especially easy to take the ball early and flat and to redirect pace. Power is slightly lower and pocketing and control better than on the SPE setup. Favorite shot: Backhand crosscourt (flat): Great control on this shot, but with ample power.

The long layoff has been tough as I have noticed that my anaerobic fitness has decreased, so I lack concentration after longer rallies… I also am getting blisters rather quickly, so I need to keep sessions shorter until I build up calluses.
 
the stringer at my local club is recommending 17 gauge VS gut in the mains with babolat RPM 18 gauge in the crosses. I think I am going to give this combo a try. Also curious about trying the max power in the crosses.
 
Edberg's Iceburg said:
the stringer at my local club is recommending 17 gauge VS gut in the mains with babolat RPM 18 gauge in the crosses. I think I am going to give this combo a try. Also curious about trying the max power in the crosses.
Click to expand...

I wouldn't recommend it, as it will be very short lived. RPM is a string that immensely changes its characteristics after a while, as it loses its silicone coating and a lot of tension and it plays completely differently after that (quite stiff, significantly less spin, less power, etc.).
 
Hmmm, interesting. That Max Power looks nice and at only 6.95 per set it helps to offset the high price of the gut. Maybe I will try babolat vs 17 and max power 17
 
Ashaway ZX Monogut -- can't find the RED

Hi ChicagoJack and everyone,
I can't find the Monogut in RED, does anyone have a link to point me to it? If not, do you know if it plays any differently than the natural?

thanks,
Allcourtguy
 
Been playing with Wilson Champion's Choice strings for the past few weeks with the natural gut on the mains and ALU Power Rough on the crosses. (50lbs/47lbs)

I took a reading with the racquettune app and got 47.4lbs right after stringing. I then took a reading every time I finished playing and here are the results :-

2cruwXEl.jpg


I think I need to restring ASAP since Im feeling ALOT of vibration on my racquet at my last session.

This time around I will be using Babolat VS Touch for the mains.
 
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