The gut/poly thread

aaron_h27

Hall of Fame
I played my hitting partner today who is slightly better than me so he normally wins when we play sets, however today I beat him 6-4, 6-0.

When just rallying I felt the stiffness in my wrist on the forehand side, however once we started playing it was no issue, and felt comfortable. I'm gonna go down 1-2 lbs next time. Anyways it played great, the extra topspin is really substantial. He made more errors than normal due to my shots bouncing higher than he initially thought, i also made less errors too due to the extra control. I few shots i stopped playing mid rally because i thought they were going long, but they were well inside the court. My partner likes to serve and volley occasionally, and i was able to hit sharp cross court angles due to the extra rpm's.

The big thing was I felt confident swinging out on short balls, normally with my full gut set-up i have to be a bit careful when moving towards the net and hitting approach shots, but i felt confident with this set-up and was looking to move forward which was really nice.

I'm not sold on gut/poly yet, but it's definitely a great start. I will probably lower my tension to 63/60 next time.
 

UCSF2012

Hall of Fame
Here's a semi recent discovery. Not intended to stir any pots. I use gut/poly in my rackets. use a rubber band as a dampener, and I rarely ever break my strings. My brother came and visit, He's accustomed to using a dampener all his life, so he put on those big smiley face dampeners on my rackets. One by one, the gut started snapping. He broke strings on 3 rackets when he visited. I think the big dampeners cause the stringbed to be too stiff, so the gut snaps sooner. Take this information as you will.

I tried to have him adapt to a rubber band, but he refused. This is how he played since we were kids.
 

landcookie

Semi-Pro
Gut/poly newbie here. Have always played with pure poly setup and am thinking of experimenting.

The appeal of a gut/poly for me, is its seemingly longer playability duration; where the overall string bed performance doesn't vary as much, as opposed to a pure poly set up.

Is this true? Currently am thinking of just trying either the Champions Choice or VS/RPM setup to start. I usually get 10-12 hours out of poly, so if a gut/poly setup can last twice that it would be good bang for buck.

Thanks in advance!
 

JustTennis76

Hall of Fame
Has anybody tried Babolat VS Touch with Pacific Poly Force 17 Original (the orange color) crosses? I currently use Prince Tour XP 17 cross but wanted to try something different. Thanks.
 

jangotango

Semi-Pro
How is durability with gut mains ? seeing that it's shaped
KLIP Legend has a really nice slick, thick, and firm (lol) coating. It's my favorite natural gut, Signum did dent it a little bit after stringing, but that sort of "locked" the crosses in. Not much sawing, just notched and didn't fray too much. I broke it in my Prince TT310 after a month and a week, about 20hrs of play. Mind you I was also using 17g Klip, 16g Signum.
 

jangotango

Semi-Pro
What other strings have you experienced?
And for background, I'm using a Clash 100 with leather grip (326g total)
I've tried Hyper-G, 4G, ALU Rough, Hawk Rough, and Element. And then XPerience, as stated.
In terms of best to worst, X-Perience, ALU Rough, 4G, Element (way too powerful, but that's my only gripe), Hawk Rough, and Hyper G (Hyper G was weirdly plasticy. Destroyed the gut, I broke this in one week.)
I'm planning on trying Big Hitter Silver 7 Tour next.
 

aaron_h27

Hall of Fame
I've tried Hyper-G, 4G, ALU Rough, Hawk Rough, and Element. And then XPerience, as stated.
In terms of best to worst, X-Perience, ALU Rough, 4G, Element (way too powerful, but that's my only gripe), Hawk Rough, and Hyper G (Hyper G was weirdly plasticy. Destroyed the gut, I broke this in one week.)
I'm planning on trying Big Hitter Silver 7 Tour next.

X-Perience sounds interesting and has a nice color, unfortunately i just bought a reel of red code wax, so i am locked in for a few months

What didn't you like about 4G?
 

JustTennis76

Hall of Fame
[/QUOTE]

I honestly didn't think cutting out the crosses would work, but it played great like a fresh stringjob. Are there any downsides to just restringing the crosses?
[/QUOTE]

I personally have done this few times and do not see any downsides in just cutting out crosses but don't make a habit of it. If the gut is in the last stages, then it would be advisible to ride that string job out. For me, I have Prince Tour XP in the crosses with VS Gut mains and have about 8 hours on it. But I'm going to cut it out and put Pacific Poly Force 17 to try it out. If I don't like that, I'll stick to it and ride it out. It's a little unpleasant to just cut crosses, pull it out and install new crosses.
 

blai212

Hall of Fame
i found that msv focus hex 17L works amazing as a cross string with gut. Yes, it is shaped but hear me out...it is hexagonal and does not have protruding sharp edges like other shaped poly such as diadem solstice power or tourna silver 7 tour. I am used to the abundance of spin from extremely sharp shaped poly such as solstice power or silver 7 tour so upon switching to gut/poly I had a lot of trouble generating the necessary spin due to the absence of the tremendous bite provided by those shaped polys. I was about to give up on gut poly til I decided to replace the crosses on a used racquet with full bed lux gut with a set of msv focus hex 17L in the crosses at 47 lbs. Former owner said he strung lux gut at 55 lbs from few months ago. The bite I got from the msv focus hex crosses was great...not as good as shaped poly but tremendous for a gut/poly setup. The lower powered msv focus hex also complements the gut quite well. I am also certain that 17L/18g crosses helps to create loads of spin as well.


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CiscoPC600

Hall of Fame
My stringer convinced me to bump the gut up to 50LBS, so I will be testing VS Touch/4G soft at 50/47LBS this evening. I'm looking forward to it.

This is for my VCORE95, by the way. If anyone else plays with a 95 sq. inch frame, I'm interested in hearing your hybrid setups.
 

aaron_h27

Hall of Fame
My stringer convinced me to bump the gut up to 50LBS, so I will be testing VS Touch/4G soft at 50/47LBS this evening. I'm looking forward to it.

This is for my VCORE95, by the way. If anyone else plays with a 95 sq. inch frame, I'm interested in hearing your hybrid setups.

I wish i could play with low tension like that, yall keep making me want to try gut under 60 lbs but every time i do it i feel like i've wasted $$$ haha, let us know how 4g soft is.
 

aaron_h27

Hall of Fame
Full bed of NG? If so, I could see the need for 60. Especially if its the 1.25mm gauge.

Right now im using Gut/Poly with 1.30 VS Touch / Pro Red Code Wax at 64/62 lbs.

I've used gut/poly in the past, mostly strung it in the mid 50s and had trouble with control.
 

CiscoPC600

Hall of Fame
Right now im using Gut/Poly with 1.30 VS Touch / Pro Red Code Wax at 64/62 lbs.

I've used gut/poly in the past, mostly strung it in the mid 50s and had trouble with control.

Hmm. Interestingly enough our frames are somewhat similar in weight. Mine is also exactly 12 oz. My guess is the swingweight is around 335 at least if not more. I'm hoping to not have any control issues given my frame size, string pattern, and choice of poly.
 

PigPen

Professional
i found that msv focus hex 17L works amazing as a cross string with gut. Yes, it is shaped but hear me out...it is hexagonal and does not have protruding sharp edges like other shaped poly such as diadem solstice power or tourna silver 7 tour. I am used to the abundance of spin from extremely sharp shaped poly such as solstice power or silver 7 tour so upon switching to gut/poly I had a lot of trouble generating the necessary spin due to the absence of the tremendous bite provided by those shaped polys. I was about to give up on gut poly til I decided to replace the crosses on a used racquet with full bed lux gut with a set of msv focus hex 17L in the crosses at 47 lbs. Former owner said he strung lux gut at 55 lbs from few months ago. The bite I got from the msv focus hex crosses was great...not as good as shaped poly but tremendous for a gut/poly setup. The lower powered msv focus hex also complements the gut quite well. I am also certain that 17L/18g crosses helps to create loads of spin as well.


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I never understood how a shaped poly as a cross could help with spin. Since the frame is horizontal during groundstrokes, the smooth part of the string is in contact with the ball. Am I missing something here?
 

Holdfast44ID

Semi-Pro
I never understood how a shaped poly as a cross could help with spin. Since the frame is horizontal during groundstrokes, the smooth part of the string is in contact with the ball. Am I missing something here?
As most of the feel on a shot is supposed to be due to the characteristics of the mains, you are correct. You should get more spin with poly mains and gut crosses. However, most will say you are wasting expensive string in the crosses. I'd say do whatever works and what you can afford. If you find the best setup, you will then save money from continually looking for the Holy Grail. Lol

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aaron_h27

Hall of Fame
Yes,VS/MaxPower is definitely low launch angle, minimum ball grab and relatively little spin. Great playability duration and control are my friends though. Pocketing is only average, IMO it would need a very big tension difference (maybe 10+lbs) for good pocketing.

Since I don't have my own stringing machine, CONSTANT and long-lasting playability are #1 criteria for me. Then a low launch angle is also a big plus, and then the next on the list would be spin potential. It seems I mostly hate big ball grab, so I think I prefer my spin coming from snap back, and that low launch angle kinda gives me enough confidence to swing away, so that snap back becomes relevant enough.

Max Power is my next to try, Pro Red Code Wax has a higher launch angle than i'd like. Looking for something with a lower launch angle
 

CiscoPC600

Hall of Fame
Initial impression: holy crap gut really does soften up the whole stick AND add power. I only got to drill for about an hour but I'm a little concerned with the substantial power increase.
 

ductrung3993

Hall of Fame
Wilson Revolve for great feel and spin. YPTP is also very good and lasts a little longer.
I could get 2-3 cross stringings to one set of legend mains.
Thanks, how were your experiences with tension?

Also, a question to all: how do you know when (only) the main or the cross has gone away?
 

speedysteve

Legend
Thanks, how were your experiences with tension?

Also, a question to all: how do you know when (only) the main or the cross has gone away?
I liked a 4 or 5lb difference. Higher tension for the mains.
55/51 being typical. Larger MP frames 58/54.

For the crosses I felt them getting loose on control. Around 20hrs and that was always my 'be careful with my arm' limit.
For the gut mains it was when fraying got bad enough and general tension was being lost.
 

muph

Rookie
Not sure if this fits the thread well, anyway any hint will be greatly appreciated: I just switched from a Blade CV 18x20 to a Clash 98. The demo was strung w full poly (their own house string Return PX 1.25 mm powered by Isospeed) and I couldn't believe how much spin I got out of that setup. But even though it played super plush (way softer than the Blade ever felt with any setup) my shoulder/arm still reacted to the hitting session that night so when I got my own frame I strung it up w/ my go to hybrid Tonic+ Ball Feel/Prince Tour XT. Doesn't play too bad but so much less spin so now I'm looking for a poly that gives me enough access to spin while still being soft enough to not cause my arm problems. In the Blade I cut out the Prince Tour XT crosses every 5 hours max. and that would be my declared minimum for the new poly full bed as well. 10 hours would be perfect. Unfortunately - apart from the name - I couldn't find any info on the poly that the store strings their demos with so I don't know where to start looking stiffness-wise.

Can someone help me out?
 
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CiscoPC600

Hall of Fame
Not sure if this fits the thread well, anyway any hint will be greatly appreciated: I just switched from a Blade CV 18x20 to a Clash 98. The demo was strung w full poly (their own house string Return PX 1.25 mm powered by Isospeed) and I couldn't believe how much spin I got out of that setup. But even though it played super plush (way softer than the Blade ever felt with any setup) my shoulder/arm still reacted to the hitting session that night so when I got my own frame I strung it up w/ my go to hybrid Tonic+ Ball Feel/Prince Tour XT. Doesn't play too bad but so much less spin so now I'm looking for a poly that gives me enough access to spin while still being soft enough to not cause my arm problems. In the Blade I cut out the Prince Tour XT crosses every 5 hours max. and that would be my declared minimum for the new poly full bed as well. 10 hours would be perfect. Unfortunately - apart from the name - I couldn't find any info on the poly that the store strings their demos with so I don't know where to start looking stiffness-wise.

Can someone help me out?

Try 4G soft. I’m using it now and it’s super slick, and I feel I’m getting adequate spin. Your clash and the gut should be enough to counter the stiffness of the 4G soft.


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aaron_h27

Hall of Fame
If you aren't getting spin with gut/poly you aren't stringing tight enough, or using a stiff enough cross.
 
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muph

Rookie
Try 4G soft. I’m using it now and it’s super slick, and I feel I’m getting adequate spin. Your clash and the gut should be enough to counter the stiffness of the 4G soft.


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I guess I wasn't clear enough. At this point I want to try and see if I can find a full bed of poly that ticks all the boxes so no gut.
 

CiscoPC600

Hall of Fame
I guess I wasn't clear enough. At this point I want to try and see if I can find a full bed of poly that ticks all the boxes so no gut.

After trying almost every popular poly (and in multiple gauges) out there for the past year, I can tell you right now that full bed of poly just doesn't have the comfort or playability duration you're looking for. But if you want to confirm for yourself, I'd suggest thin polys (1.20m or less) to get the spin, comfort, and playability duration you're looking for. Tour Bite and RPM Blast at 1.20mm for me was near perfect as it would last 2-3 weeks. However, it started catching up to me in terms of comfort just because of fatigue from overplaying, so that's why I'm here trying out hybrids haha. So far it may be the honeymoon phase but I love it. I'm just hoping it lasts near three weeks.
 

ArliHawk

Hall of Fame
Always tinker when new racquets. Currently have Tonic mains and kirschbaum evolution crosses in my vcore 100s. Like it a lot. May try Klip Legend/Evolution next.
 

CiscoPC600

Hall of Fame
All right folks.. I think I need to make a significant tension increase. Balls are flying at 50/47LBS. I'm thinking 55/52LBS for my Gut/4G soft. Thoughts? Too much of an increase?
 

blai212

Hall of Fame
I never understood how a shaped poly as a cross could help with spin. Since the frame is horizontal during groundstrokes, the smooth part of the string is in contact with the ball. Am I missing something here?

Not all shaped polys are the same. MSV is a hexa shaped poly which is much different than other shaped polys such as tourna silver 7 tour or diadem solstice power that are star shaped with protruding sharp edges. The edges of MSV actually helps to create notches that help promote snapback. However, I believe the spin that I got from my setup was mostly due to the 17L nature of my crosses since I used pro’s pro power plus (generic version of SPPP which is smooth round string) and I could generate similar spin. 17L crosses is the way to go and I restring crosses whenever the slick coating wears off and friction starts becoming too great that strings start becoming displaced. Hope this helps


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SlapShot

Hall of Fame
Just getting back to tennis after a 6 year layoff (started playing again in February of this year, working my way back from a shoulder impingement), and had the first night of gut/poly last night. Previously, I'd been playing with HyperG 1.20 in a full bed at 52 in my Prestige MP. I really love it when it's fresh, but I can feel it in my shoulder and bicep when the string starts to lose some life, so thought gut/poly might be the way to go.

Trying Lux Gut/HyperG at 55/51, and I totally forgot just how much work gut can put on the ball - I hit a few kick serves that did things I haven't made the ball do in years. I did have a few WTF balls based on having a more lively stringbed, but some adjustments made those happen less frequently. Side bonus, my shoulder feels much better than it has in the past day-after.

Question for the group - in the past, I used Klip when I wanted gut, and this was my first experiment with Lux. So far, I'm really impressed (never really liked VS Touch, it felt too soft and springy), but the price difference is certainly not nothing between Klip and Lux. Is the difference between the two really all that significant? I don't string my own anymore, so I'm willing to pay for a premium string if it plays better for longer, just trying to find a balance there.
 

aaron_h27

Hall of Fame
In case anyone was interested i weighed some of babolat's gut while in the package just to see the difference in weight

Vs Touch = 27.6 grams
Tonic Ball Feel = 27.9 grams
Tonic Longevity = 30.8 grams

I was worried Ball Feel would be a bit thinner than VS (They have it listed as 1.28-1.32) b/c i find that VS touch is powerful enough, if anything im trying to tame the power of a gut/poly set-up. Tonic Longevity is about 3 grams heavier than Vs in a full package which would only be 1.5 grams in a hybrid set-up. Now im Wondering how much VS Touch 15L package would weigh. Hmm.
 

SpinToWin

Talk Tennis Guru
In case anyone was interested i weighed some of babolat's gut while in the package just to see the difference in weight

Vs Touch = 27.6 grams
Tonic Ball Feel = 27.9 grams
Tonic Longevity = 30.8 grams

I was worried Ball Feel would be a bit thinner than VS (They have it listed as 1.28-1.32) b/c i find that VS touch is powerful enough, if anything im trying to tame the power of a gut/poly set-up. Tonic Longevity is about 3 grams heavier than Vs in a full package which would only be 1.5 grams in a hybrid set-up. Now im Wondering how much VS Touch 15L package would weigh. Hmm.
While in the package? You do realise you’re making the substantial assumption that the individual packages you have weigh the same?
 

SpinToWin

Talk Tennis Guru
Just getting back to tennis after a 6 year layoff (started playing again in February of this year, working my way back from a shoulder impingement), and had the first night of gut/poly last night. Previously, I'd been playing with HyperG 1.20 in a full bed at 52 in my Prestige MP. I really love it when it's fresh, but I can feel it in my shoulder and bicep when the string starts to lose some life, so thought gut/poly might be the way to go.

Trying Lux Gut/HyperG at 55/51, and I totally forgot just how much work gut can put on the ball - I hit a few kick serves that did things I haven't made the ball do in years. I did have a few WTF balls based on having a more lively stringbed, but some adjustments made those happen less frequently. Side bonus, my shoulder feels much better than it has in the past day-after.

Question for the group - in the past, I used Klip when I wanted gut, and this was my first experiment with Lux. So far, I'm really impressed (never really liked VS Touch, it felt too soft and springy), but the price difference is certainly not nothing between Klip and Lux. Is the difference between the two really all that significant? I don't string my own anymore, so I'm willing to pay for a premium string if it plays better for longer, just trying to find a balance there.
I’d say give it a try and see. The cheaper string may fit your game just fine.
 

DelPeric

New User
Got a pack of Kirschbaum Gut feeling 1,30 string(multifilament). I want to make hybrid with msv focus hex 1,23. Gut feeling mains, msv in crosses. Strings have similar percentage of tension loss. My usual setup is 24kg mains, 23 kg crosses when stringing full bed of msv focus hex poly. Do i keep this tension also in my hybrid setup with gut feeling multi in mains or do i have to string it 1,5kg more on mains(like roger does with natural gut)?

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JustTennis76

Hall of Fame
I have been trying gut poly lately and recently purchased a pack of pacific poly gut prepackaged hybrid, which is pacific tough gut 16L and Poly Force 17. I put that in my prestige mid and played yesterday, it has great feel to it and feels crispier than VS touch which I like. Not sure if I will switch to this hybrid as I have stocked up on VS touch. I used 52/48 lbs in the mid. I also have the prestige pro, planning to try 57/53 in that.
 

muph

Rookie
Try Tier One Black Knight. I’d not go too high in tension though. 24kg at most to start.
Cool. Which gauge would you recommend in the Clash 98? I'd probably go for the 1.18 since it probably plays the softest and spin-friendliest of the three but only if it holds up to at least 5-10 hrs. of playing.
 

SpinToWin

Talk Tennis Guru
Cool. Which gauge would you recommend in the Clash 98? I'd probably go for the 1.18 since it probably plays the softest and spin-friendliest of the three but only if it holds up to at least 5-10 hrs. of playing.
I think the 1.23 is great and don't see why one would have to go down to the 1.18. YMMV though
 

SpinToWin

Talk Tennis Guru
Got a pack of Kirschbaum Gut feeling 1,30 string(multifilament). I want to make hybrid with msv focus hex 1,23. Gut feeling mains, msv in crosses. Strings have similar percentage of tension loss. My usual setup is 24kg mains, 23 kg crosses when stringing full bed of msv focus hex poly. Do i keep this tension also in my hybrid setup with gut feeling multi in mains or do i have to string it 1,5kg more on mains(like roger does with natural gut)?

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Gut feeling is a multi. It is not a gut. If you are expecting durability from that setup, don't. Multi mains will rip in no time flat if you put some rotations on the ball.
 
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