The gut/poly thread

LOBALOT

Hall of Fame
I've been playing with Hyper G soft main/Gosen micro sheep cross @ 51/53. Recently played with Hyper G soft full bed 49/47 but found it a tad lively after 5-6 hours so my ideal tension probably should be a bit higher like 51/49. My racket is Radical MP 2021.
I just ordered a set of gut ProV5 16 gauge from NGW which intend to used as a main hybrid. I'm guessing HGS will not be a good combo as it might cut through my main. I have sets of Ghostwire in 16L and 17, Pro Line evolution in 1.25mm and isospeed Cream in16L (I have old reels of tour bite, tornado and hyperion too but I doubt they'd be good crosses). Which one should I try first and at what tension? It will be my first time with gut (also a bit nervous to string it myself).
I would say the Ghostwire 17G but be prepared to go up in tension quite a bit. Perhaps 58/54 Mains/Cross or something like that.

I am actually having difficulty with these softer poly crosses this summer with the heat. I am finding I am losing the ball in the stringbed and I really don't like that at all with Lux Gut 58/Cream 16L at 51. It was great this winter. I am about to string up Yonex Poly Tour Fire 17G as a cross and perhaps go up a tad on the cross and give that a shot.
 

cha cha

Professional
Hmm I would string the gut higher. Also depends if it was prestretched. It will lose a lot of tension after it's strung, but then settle.
It got a bit better before snapping some 10-12 hours in.
I still feel the string is not worth the price, especially on clay.
 

SinneGOAT

Hall of Fame
For those who use gut/poly in tweeners or anyone in general, what would be a good tension for 16g gut/17g max power?
 
It got a bit better before snapping some 10-12 hours in.
I still feel the string is not worth the price, especially on clay.
I use gut on clay and think it’s the best string that one can get. I use it as a main with lynx tour crosses. But I string it much higher than you. 27/25. Gut is sensitive to temperature changes and I only drop to 25kg during winter when it’s close to 0 degrees. I found it to be too lively during summer at 25kg.
Also keep in mind that not all stringers are calibrated well. So your tension might even be lower. When I set my stringer at 25kg it actually pulls 24kg. I measured it with a fishing scale.
 

NRMM

Rookie
Wondering if anyone has had any experience with lynx tour , head hawk rough and head hawk as crosses for VS mains ? How do these compare in terms of stiffness, control and tension maintenance ? Also, if you move from VS17 to VS16, besides durability, will you in theory gain better control without sacrificing power?
 

The Big Kahuna

Hall of Fame
I have tested numerous hybrid set-ups over the years. You can use different polys in the crosses to make subtle differences in the feel or spin of a gut/poly hybrid just as you can with gut. At the end of the day - assuming money is no object - the best playing set-up remains VS Touch 16 in the mains and Luxilon ALU Power Rough 17 in the crosses. It is not an original blend, but it is a classic for a reason.

For tension, I string the poly in the low 40s and the gut 3 pounds higher - a little higher in the summer, a little lower in the winter. There is a reason so many pros use this combo, even when it does not come free. It does everything well.
 

Crashbaby

Semi-Pro
I have tested numerous hybrid set-ups over the years. You can use different polys in the crosses to make subtle differences in the feel or spin of a gut/poly hybrid just as you can with gut. At the end of the day - assuming money is no object - the best playing set-up remains VS Touch 16 in the mains and Luxilon ALU Power Rough 17 in the crosses. It is not an original blend, but it is a classic for a reason.

For tension, I string the poly in the low 40s and the gut 3 pounds higher - a little higher in the summer, a little lower in the winter. There is a reason so many pros use this combo, even when it does not come free. It does everything well.
I have been using yonex strike as a cross as its way cheaper and holds tension better than Alu rough, but it starts to get sticky and stay out of place after a few weeks. Alu rough stays incredibly slippery for ages. Lux rough is the gold standard for me too, I just can’t afford/justify paying nearly double the price here in Australia for a reel of Luxilon.
Going to try poly tour Rev as a cross next. Any tried it with gut yet?
 

EggSalad

Rookie
Kirschbaum max power is the best poly cross in a gut hybrid. Holds tension forever, good spin and control, feels similar to Alu and cheaper.
sorry to hijack the main topic of the thread, but do those same properties apply to Kirschbaum max power ad a main? Specifically with a synthetic gut cross as the hybrid?
 

NRMM

Rookie
I have to agree
I always wanted to give KB a go but the stiffness numbers on the TW database just puts me off. Alu power rough looks much better but I do appreciate the common statement that you can get perhaps a max of 10 hours of doubles play out of it ? And why the gold standard is with VS 16 and not VS 17 ?
 

socallefty

Legend
Am I the only one who loves playing with VS mains and HyperG Soft crosses? I’ve been using this combo for a year at 47/44 on a Pure Strike Tour and love it - lasts about 15-18 hours for me. I played with VS/HyperG for 6 months before that and won a lot then too, but it is slightly less comfortable than the VS/HGS hybrid and lasts a few hours less.
 

happyandbob

Hall of Fame
Am I the only one who loves playing with VS mains and HyperG Soft crosses? I’ve been using this combo for a year at 47/44 on a Pure Strike Tour and love it - lasts about 15-18 hours for me. I played with VS/HyperG for 6 months before that and won a lot then too, but it is slightly less comfortable than the VS/HGS hybrid and lasts a few hours less.
HG and HGS don't saw through the VS mains?
 

socallefty

Legend
HG and HGS don't saw through the VS mains?
If I play only singles, the gut breaks around 12-15 hours. Usually I play singles for 10 hours and then use the string job only for doubles and drill sessions. With VS/HGS, the gut gets frayed, but I usually cut them out more often than not around 15-18 hours when I feel that the poly is dead. I play at the 4.5 level and so, the hitting is not at the level of top juniors and college players who break strings more frequently. I have noticed that some of my friends who mishit the ball frequently compared to me tend to break strings more often while I am more of a clean ballstriker.

I like round polys like ALU Power as a cross, but it goes dead within 6-7 hours for me where the control gets erratic and I feel discomfort - until then, it is pretty good. Same thing with RPM Blast. So, I am happy enough hybriding with shaped polys as they go dead before they cut through the gut for the majority of my string jobs.
 
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happyandbob

Hall of Fame
With VS/HGS, the gut gets frayed, but I usually cut them out more often than not around 15-18 hours when I feel that the poly is dead. I play at the 4.5 level and so, the hitting is not at the level of top juniors and college players who break strings more frequently. I have noticed that some of my friends who mishit the ball frequently compared to me tend to break strings more often while I am more of a clean ballstriker.
Thanks, I never thought to use HG or HGS as a cross figuring the sharp edges would cut through the mains, but then again I don't really understand why Monogut ZX cuts through NG mains so quickly even though it appears to be so smooth.

It also interesting that you're stringing NG at 47 for the mains, how does NG perform at that tension? I've only played NG at 55-60 lbs.
 

FIRETennis

Professional
I always wanted to give KB a go but the stiffness numbers on the TW database just puts me off. Alu power rough looks much better but I do appreciate the common statement that you can get perhaps a max of 10 hours of doubles play out of it ? And why the gold standard is with VS 16 and not VS 17 ?
I remember trying Kirschbaum Max Power (regular not rough) a few years ago and it did feel stiff. Even more stiff than ALU power. The tension maintenance was better than ALU.
Not a big difference between regular ALU and ALU rough imo.
VS17 breaks much much faster than VS16.
 

socallefty

Legend
Thanks, I never thought to use HG or HGS as a cross figuring the sharp edges would cut through the mains, but then again I don't really understand why Monogut ZX cuts through NG mains so quickly even though it appears to be so smooth.

It also interesting that you're stringing NG at 47 for the mains, how does NG perform at that tension? I've only played NG at 55-60 lbs.
When I used to play fullbed NG, I played at 57 or 58lbs. When I started hybriding, I went down in tension first by 5%, then 10% and then kept going down till I found the tension range that works best for me. The poly crosses makes the stringbed stiff and so, the gut mains don’t feel like they would in a fullbed.
 

happyandbob

Hall of Fame
I'm really loving the setups I have going right now -- Wilson gut mains @58 with Ghost Wire crosses in one racquet and Cream crosses in the other both @54.

I think I'm getting both more pop and more spin from the Ghost wire over Cream and the sound is much louder at impact vs Cream. Cream feels plusher and less launchy but also has slightly less spin. Cream as a whole seems more muted than Ghost wire, but the difference is subtle. I played great with both setups.

I've been two months on gut mains now and am really getting used to it and my elbow feels terrific. I hit today and not once did I catch myself wishing for the extra spin I used to get with shaped poly mains, even on short balls where I'm swinging full out and trusting that I'm going to bring the ball up and down. I don't think I'm going back to poly mains or flirt with multis again or other types of cross strings. I'm a gut/poly convert.
 
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myth

Professional
I'm really loving the setups I have going right now -- Wilson gut mains @58 with Ghost Wire crosses in one racquet and Cream crosses in the other both @54.

I think I'm getting both more pop and more spin from the Ghost wire over Cream and the sound is much louder at impact vs Cream. Cream feels plusher and less launchy but also has slightly less spin. Cream as a whole seems more muted than Ghost wire, but the difference is subtle. I played great with both setups.

I've been two months on gut mains now and am really getting used to it and my elbow feels terrific. I hit today and not once did I catch myself wishing for the extra spin I used to get with shaped poly mains, even on short balls where I'm swinging full out and trusting that I'm going to bring the ball up and down. I don't think I'm going back to poly mains or flirt with multis again or other types of cross strings. I'm a gut/poly convert.
I like both gut with Ghost Wire and Cream.
As you do, i prefer Ghost Wire as a cross with gut. More comfort spin but both are great. More control with Cream.
My bro will be trying the same set up as you do.
 

Ramjet

Rookie
I've been playing about twice/thrice a week with Klip gut mains and SPPP crosses at 52/48, rotating between two rackets (pure strike 16x19 3rd gen). I have been pleasantly surprised about how long the playability lasts. Apart from the urge to experiment, I think SPPP is a great cross for gut strings if you like the soft low powered feel with decent spin. Previously i used cyclone as a cross with gut. I got more spin with cyclone but the playability didn't last as long, and the gut frayed quicker. I have some VPRO lying around so will try that again as a cross for the gut (i think i remember it feeling softer and more powerful when I tried it years back).
 

Syfo-Dias

Professional
I'm planning to try a Klip Legend/Ghostwire hybrid in my VCP 97H pretty soon. Since GW is a soft poly, are you guy stringing it at a higher tension to compensate? My usual hybrid setup is Klip Legend 1.25 & Max Power 1.20 @ 58/55 lbs.
 

NRMM

Rookie
I use gut on clay and think it’s the best string that one can get. I use it as a main with lynx tour crosses. But I string it much higher than you. 27/25. Gut is sensitive to temperature changes and I only drop to 25kg during winter when it’s close to 0 degrees. I found it to be too lively during summer at 25kg.
Also keep in mind that not all stringers are calibrated well. So your tension might even be lower. When I set my stringer at 25kg it actually pulls 24kg. I measured it with a fishing scale.
How’s your experience with VS 17/lynx tour 17 been? Still your go to setup, playing around with tensions ? Moved on to another setup?
 

NRMM

Rookie
A general question.. is there any reasons why it’s more common to have thinner gauges on the crosses than using same gauges for both gut mains and poly crosses? Pros and cons vs using same gauge for both poly and gut?
 

aaron_h27

Hall of Fame
A general question.. is there any reasons why it’s more common to have thinner gauges on the crosses than using same gauges for both gut mains and poly crosses? Pros and cons vs using same gauge for both poly and gut?
I think most people use 1.25 gauge since Luxilon Alu Power is the golden standard of poly strings and they didn't have all the gauge offerings they do now back then. 1.25 gauge gut is too powerful for a lot of people without stringing super high and that reduces durability a lot.

Going thinner with crosses enhances spin/launch angle and lowers durability

going thicker with crosses lowers spin and launch angle.

Choose the thinnest gauge you can control that meets your durability requirement.
 
How’s your experience with VS 17/lynx tour 17 been? Still your go to setup, playing around with tensions ? Moved on to another setup?
Actually, I use Babolat Touch Tonic >135. But I was told that this basically is VS that did not meet the standards. Yes, it's still my go to setup and I'm still loving it. It gets even better when playing with it for a longer period of time. I did try some other strings in the meantime, like full bed lynx tour. And while it does offer some extra spin and maybe a more satisfying feedback (which is weird but also personal), it's just not as predictable. The gut/lynx combo is nothing special, no wow factor, no monster spin or brutal power. Just really predictable, precise and consistent feedback and output.
 

blai212

Hall of Fame
I'm planning to try a Klip Legend/Ghostwire hybrid in my VCP 97H pretty soon. Since GW is a soft poly, are you guy stringing it at a higher tension to compensate? My usual hybrid setup is Klip Legend 1.25 & Max Power 1.20 @ 58/55 lbs.
I’ve found that GW as a cross sometimes will get a bit too mushy after a few sessions. Cream gets pancaked because it’s so soft with its rubber elastomer. Max power is probably your best option for cross if you enjoy the feel of that string. I opt for SP polaris as a cross because the crisp feel of silver strings tends to make my arm tingle. Stiff string at lower trnsion is better than softer string at higher tension because soft string at high tension won’t last long.
 

FIRETennis

Professional
Somebody I play with broke both his full-beds of 4G last night. They'd been in the racquets about 2 years. He said he doesn't like strings when they're fresh.
I do agree regular 4G is very stiff, even as a cross to gut.
4G Soft, 4G Rough and 4G are all completely different feeling, especially when you use them as a cross with gut.
 

faded_lines

Rookie
I find that gut is so soft that it needs a crisp cross string to balance out the string bed, but then again, I've only ever tried Klip Legend. I developed some small tingle sensation in my elbow and decided to try NG/Poly with Klip Legend 1.30 as the main and Max Power 1.25 as the crosses @ 58/54. I find this combo plays really well for me and is very comfortable for my elbow. I played a matched against a big hitter last night and my arm still felt fresh after the match. I through about trying GW or Cream for the crosses, but I was afraid it might be too mushy as some have mentioned.
 

NRMM

Rookie
Played today with VS 17 / KB MP 18 at 55/52 on my EZ 98 + . Really enjoyed it despite the damp and cold conditions. No discomfort. I was just wondering the following: on this setup, what impacts control the greatest? Increasing gut to 16 or increasing the poly to 17 and leaving gut at 17 ? Or bump to 16/17 ?
 

happyandbob

Hall of Fame
Played today with VS 17 / KB MP 18 at 55/52 on my EZ 98 + . Really enjoyed it despite the damp and cold conditions. No discomfort. I was just wondering the following: on this setup, what impacts control the greatest? Increasing gut to 16 or increasing the poly to 17 and leaving gut at 17 ? Or bump to 16/17 ?
I’m really curious to see what kind of answers you get. I currently have two frames one with Wilson 16/cream 17 and the other with Wilson 16/ghost wire 17. I am about 6 to 7 hours into each set up, and they are starting to feel a little mushy. I just ordered some max power 17 and 18 to swap out the crosses to see if I can up the stiffness without impacting comfort.
 

cortado

Professional
Played today with VS 17 / KB MP 18 at 55/52 on my EZ 98 + . Really enjoyed it despite the damp and cold conditions. No discomfort. I was just wondering the following: on this setup, what impacts control the greatest? Increasing gut to 16 or increasing the poly to 17 and leaving gut at 17 ? Or bump to 16/17 ?
I can only really describe my experience which was 16g nat gut mains / 17g poly tour pro yellow crosses. 18x20 VCore HD. Lots of control. Yes the string-bed feel did change over the 12 weeks it took for the mains to break. However, I found I was able to adapt very easily to this change. I think 16/17 would work well and you would probably get more durability from the gut.
 

aaron_h27

Hall of Fame
Played today with VS 17 / KB MP 18 at 55/52 on my EZ 98 + . Really enjoyed it despite the damp and cold conditions. No discomfort. I was just wondering the following: on this setup, what impacts control the greatest? Increasing gut to 16 or increasing the poly to 17 and leaving gut at 17 ? Or bump to 16/17 ?
Cross string impacts control more than mains.
 

NRMM

Rookie
Cross string impacts control more than mains.
so does that mean that let’s say..

VS 17 57lbs / Max power 18 54lbs

Potentially offers less control than

VS 17 55lbs / Max power 17 52lbs

How does tension play a role in this or does it not?
 

aaron_h27

Hall of Fame
so does that mean that let’s say..

VS 17 57lbs / Max power 18 54lbs

Potentially offers less control than

VS 17 55lbs / Max power 17 52lbs

How does tension play a role in this or does it not?
Tension plays a role, but with all things equal the thicker gauge will provide more control & less spin/power. Try to only change one thing at a time.
 

NRMM

Rookie
Tension plays a role, but with all things equal the thicker gauge will provide more control & less spin/power. Try to only change one thing at a time.
the thicker gauge on crosses with gut mains. Thanks! I always thought the control could come more from the mains so that’s helpful.
 

AVSH

Rookie
I thought mains impact the feel more than the crosses. I forgot the exact number but its not 50/50. So any changes or differences should be made on mains for biggest impact. At least thats what I thought, open to other perspectives
 

antony

Professional
Kirschbaum max power is the best poly cross in a gut hybrid. Holds tension forever, good spin and control, feels similar to Alu and cheaper.
I'm trying lux NG 1.30 x Max Power Rough 1.25 right now. I don't know if I like how it feels so far :(
 

SinneGOAT

Hall of Fame
I'm trying lux NG 1.30 x Max Power Rough 1.25 right now. I don't know if I like how it feels so far :(
I use the standard max power. It could also be the tension, racquet, or even the gut, but the possibility for the gut being the culprit is very low.
 

antony

Professional
I use the standard max power. It could also be the tension, racquet, or even the gut, but the possibility for the gut being the culprit is very low.
Yeah with different gut hybrids I've been using 62 lbs happily (4G-R x NG, ALUP-R x NG, NG x ALUP-R) but I wanted to try 57 lbs with this string so that is indeed a factor. I was thinking most likely it's the Kirschbaum that I don't like though. With every Kirschbaum string I've tried so far, I've never cared for their feel. Maybe their strings haven't given me the kind of tactile feedback that I'm used to? I will continue to play with it and adjust to it.
 
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