The gut/poly thread

[SpinToWin]

I have been trying gut poly lately and recently purchased a pack of pacific poly gut prepackaged hybrid, which is pacific tough gut 16L and Poly Force 17. I put that in my prestige mid and played yesterday, it has great feel to it and feels crispier than VS touch which I like. Not sure if I will switch to this hybrid as I have stocked up on VS touch. I used 52/48 lbs in the mid. I also have the prestige pro, planning to try 57/53 in that.

Are you sure it's the gut and not the different poly in the crosses? Or do you use Pacific crosses for your VS gut/poly hybrid?

 

[muph]

I think the 1.23 is great and don't see why one would have to go down to the 1.18. YMMV though

Just ordered both of them, will report back when I had a chance to hit with it. Thanks!

 

[muph]

If you aren't getting spin with gut/poly you aren't stringing tight enough, or using a stiff enough cross.

I'm with you on the crosses. Do you mean you get easier spin when you string with higher tension?

After trying almost every popular poly (and in multiple gauges) out there for the past year, I can tell you right now that full bed of poly just doesn't have the comfort or playability duration you're looking for. But if you want to confirm for yourself, I'd suggest thin polys (1.20m or less) to get the spin, comfort, and playability duration you're looking for. Tour Bite and RPM Blast at 1.20mm for me was near perfect as it would last 2-3 weeks. However, it started catching up to me in terms of comfort just because of fatigue from overplaying, so that's why I'm here trying out hybrids haha. So far it may be the honeymoon phase but I love it. I'm just hoping it lasts near three weeks.

The poly bed in the demo Clash 98 actually felt plusher than the gut/poly hybrid in my CV Blade 18x20. Only the night after hitting the muscles around my shoulder still were sore so I'm still hoping to find one that doesn't cause my shoulder to react negatively... if I don't find a poly that's arm-friendly enough I'll have to stick with gut/poly I guess.

 

[JustTennis76]

Are you sure it's the gut and not the different poly in the crosses? Or do you use Pacific crosses for your VS gut/poly hybrid?

You are right. The VS Gut had Prince Tour XP cross whereas Pacific Gut had Poly Force in the crosses. Maybe the Poly Force cross is what makes this setup more crisp? Anyway, I like the Pacific setup better but VS Touch is also very good.

 

[Georgepeppard007]

Pardon me for my ignorance, but why use gut at all if poly is what revolutionized the amount of spin generated from a racquet?

I hear all the old school pros talk about how poly strings changed the game. Gut has been around since the beginning. If you use gut in the main and poly in the crosses, then you won't get much effect of this spin revolution in the game.

Am I missing something here?

 

[ArliHawk]

Pardon me for my ignorance, but why use gut at all if poly is what revolutionized the amount of spin generated from a racquet?

I hear all the old school pros talk about how poly strings changed the game. Gut has been around since the beginning. If you use gut in the main and poly in the crosses, then you won't get much effect of this spin revolution in the game.

Am I missing something here?

comfort. The gut makes it more comfortable.

 

[Rafedovic]

There is always going to be a trade off between different string characteristics in finding what suits a player. Poly brought a whole new dimension to these string characteristics, most notably spin and durability. Like anything new and fancy, a lot of people overvalue the enhanced spin potential aspect, but in reality it’s only as useful as it fits your style of play. Using Gut/poly hybrids doesn’t make sense if you want max spin above all else. It makes more sense if you look at using poly as a cross with gut to save money, gain control or even enhance gut spin potential. With poly also came hybrid potential.

 

[SpinToWin]

Pardon me for my ignorance, but why use gut at all if poly is what revolutionized the amount of spin generated from a racquet?

I hear all the old school pros talk about how poly strings changed the game. Gut has been around since the beginning. If you use gut in the main and poly in the crosses, then you won't get much effect of this spin revolution in the game.

Am I missing something here?

Yes you are. The idea behind gut/poly is that string movement is a large part of what makes poly spin friendly. Full gut may not have great string movement, but gut/poly does. So you get some of the benefits of both worlds, the power, comfort, and feel from the gut, and the spin from the poly. Depending on your strokes, you may even find playing spin easier with gut/poly, it depends how you adjust your strokes to the setup. But it's wrong to imply that it isn't a spin friendly setup. I hate to bring out the "this pro uses it card", but don't forget that pros with heavy spin such as Thiem and Federer have used/use gut/poly.

 

[Kurt0707]

What I have also realized is that with full gut or multi, strings tend to move a lot especially if not strung at high tension, so poly crosses help keep the strings in place. In addition to spin potential and more control of course...

 

[SpinToWin]

What I have also realized is that with full gut or multi, strings tend to move a lot especially if not strung at high tension, so poly crosses help keep the strings in place. In addition to spin potential and more control of course...

Technically wrong. Strings move more with poly crosses - they just also move back in place. That’s the string movement I spoke of.

 

[E46luver]

i am trying gut and poly but see the strings get notched quickly. does this remove spin. should i flip the racket over when cutting out just the poly after 10 hours? this way the notches are on the other side and it's more fresh, no notches.
also what is a popular tension range i should ask for at the store? ppl string poly low and gut high

 

[SpinToWin]

i am trying gut and poly but see the strings get notched quickly. does this remove spin. should i flip the racket over when cutting out just the poly after 10 hours? this way the notches are on the other side and it's more fresh, no notches.
also what is a popular tension range i should ask for at the store? ppl string poly low and gut high

No. Notched gut is no problem. And don’t restring on the other side because you’re just gonna make the thing tear even faster.

 

[GuttaPercha]

Has anyone tried Gut / Signum Pro Firestorm combo? What tensions should I string firestorm
Have been using Klip Legend/ Hawk Touch 17

 

[CiscoPC600]

Well, the VS Touch 1.30mm lasted 5 hitting sessions i.e., one week. Too bad, I could've seen making the switch if it lasted longer.

 

[aaron_h27]

Well, the VS Touch 1.30mm lasted 5 hitting sessions i.e., one week. Too bad, I could've seen making the switch if it lasted longer.

Try 1.35mm VS Touch

 

[djNEiGht]

@CiscoPC600 do you use/have you tried string savers?

 

[muph]

Try Tier One Black Knight. I’d not go too high in tension though. 24kg at most to start.

Strung up Black Knight 1.18 @21/20 to start with and have 3 hours on the setup so far. Really like the string though my arm stiffened up a bit after playing last time around. Let's see how I will feel tonight after today's hitting. Both the mains and even more so the crosses are starting to flatten out in the hitting zone by now. Couldn't tell if there has already been a decline in playability but is it a no-brainer to cut out strings that have visibly deformed?

 

[SpinToWin]

Strung up Black Knight 1.18 @21/20 to start with and have 3 hours on the setup so far. Really like the string though my arm stiffened up a bit after playing last time around. Let's see how I will feel tonight after today's hitting. Both the mains and even more so the crosses are starting to flatten out in the hitting zone by now. Couldn't tell if there has already been a decline in playability but is it a no-brainer to cut out strings that have visibly deformed?

Depends how you feel it performs. If you see a drop-off in performance that bothers you, cut it out.

Go back to your usual setup if discomfort remains. No reason to play around with arm health for no reason

 

[SlapShot]

Had a second frame strung with Lux Gut/4G (the regular, not soft) at 56/51, and so far after a couple of outings, I think I love it. Ample power, but the 4G really seems to knock the power level down just right, and there's plenty of spin to be found. I think that this might be my new setup for a bit.

Given all of the talk around 4G vs. 4G soft, should I at least give the soft a shake? I don't find the 4G to be overly harsh, but if the Soft is close to a free lunch (more forgiving while keeping all of the playing characteristics) then it might be worth a try.

Also, anyone think that there will be another Black Friday/Cyber Monday deal on Lux this year? Hoping that I can stock my gut for next year to knock the price per frame down a touch.

 

[jangotango]

riday/Cyber Monday deal on Lux this year?

There's 25% off of $150 going on right now for Wilson, Lux, and Prince.

 

[JustTennis76]

Guys - need some help. I recently strung up the Pacific Poly Gut hybrid on my prestige pro at 56/52 lbs. It feels a little stiff granted it was low 50s playing outdoors. The setup was Tough Gut Mains and Poly Force 17 crosses. Maybe I could save this racket and setup when the weather gets warmer? Is there a way to soften up the string bed? Should I try a different cross? I have Prince Tour XP 17, Prince Tour XC 16L, Gosen Polylon Comfort 17 and Gosen SideWinder 17. Will any of these offer comfort for winter play?

 

[2nd Serve Ace]

Guys - need some help. I recently strung up the Pacific Poly Gut hybrid on my prestige pro at 56/52 lbs. It feels a little stiff granted it was low 50s playing outdoors. The setup was Tough Gut Mains and Poly Force 17 crosses. Maybe I could save this racket and setup when the weather gets warmer? Is there a way to soften up the string bed? Should I try a different cross? I have Prince Tour XP 17, Prince Tour XC 16L, Gosen Polylon Comfort 17 and Gosen SideWinder 17. Will any of these offer comfort for winter play?

If prince tour xp won't work, then you're basically sol.

 

[JustTennis76]

If prince tour xp won't work, then you're basically sol.

I'm not sure what this means. Tour XP should definitely work for me because it's softer?

 

[2nd Serve Ace]

I'm not sure what this means. Tour XP should definitely work for me because it's softer?

Right. A fullbed of XP is softer than many multis.

 

[ron schaap]

Tried Max Power today briefly and found it to be stiffer than the other 2 setup's and with a lot more control. Spin is not up to par and the launch angle is low, like everyone has mentioned. The Max Power really calms down the power of the gut, but IMO almost too much. Don't call me a fan. This setup doesn't grab the ball nearly as well as what I'm hoping for in my new poly cross and I almost would prefer to play with ALU in the crosses over MP. I just feel that the MP gives the string bed an incredibly nice crisp and firm string bed, but it really tones down the ability to hit heavy. Will leave it in my frame and might bring it out again to play, but I'll probably move on to my next playtest - Outlast.



I am trying Outlast on my AI 98. I actually strung it up an hour ago. Will comment on it. From what I know, Outlast as an individual polyester is soft feeling and plush. Not exactly sure what that means when you hybrid it with gut. Normally, I'd think that a stiffer, crisp, medium powered polyester would be a great fit, but after trying ALU Power in the crosses, it doesn't seem to be the case. What's missing from the ALU crosses is spin potential and ball grab, with a hint of control needed. I also have Head Hawk as well, but you can say that I'm not exactly thrilled given its reviews. Lynx, Poly Tour Spin, Poly Tour Spin G interest me a lot.

Why would one use soft and powerfull gut strings on a soft racquet that is also powerfull unless one has deep pockets?

 

[Rally]

What is the coldest temperature you guys are comfortable using your natural gut? I've been on the conservative side, only hitting in temperatures warmer than 52 Fahrenheit.

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[USPTARF97]

What is the coldest temperature you guys are comfortable using your natural gut? I've been on the conservative side, only hitting in temperatures warmer than 52 Fahrenheit.

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Try not to hit when it gets down in the 40’s. Doesn’t have much to do with the strings it’s just too easy to get hurt in those temps.

 

[Rally]

Try not to hit when it gets down in the 40’s. Doesn’t have much to do with the strings it’s just too easy to get hurt in those temps.

Agreed on the 40s. My body can't keep itself warm just by playing when it gets below 50 and my cold hands start hurting after hitting the ball for 15 minutes. Overall I just feel really brittle when it gets that low.

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[2nd Serve Ace]

Agreed on the 40s. My body can't keep itself warm just by playing when it gets below 50 and my cold hands start hurting after hitting the ball for 15 minutes. Overall I just feel really brittle when it gets that low.

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Hardcourts on a sunny day hold in some heat and are usable below 50. Clay, on the other hand, is a frozen ice rink!

 

[muph]

Depends how you feel it performs. If you see a drop-off in performance that bothers you, cut it out.

Go back to your usual setup if discomfort remains. No reason to play around with arm health for no reason

So I strung up a leftover half-set of Isospeed Cream 1.28 (mains) with Black Knight 1.23 in the crosses going down to 20/18 kg, hoping that would soften the stringbed enough for me. Cut it out after the first session because it felt way too harsh on my arm. Next I crossed Black Knight 1.23 with Prince Tour XT 1.18 (mains) @18/17 kg which was more comfortable but still a little too harsh. Tour XT in the mains broke after 3 hours - will strings deteriorate faster when strung at low tensions where they move more?

Now I just strung up Isospeed Return PX which I liked a lot in the Clash demo frame but likely will also be a bit too stiff. So far a full bed of Tour XT is the only poly I tried so far that my arm can handle but it only lasts around 3 hours. Now searching the database for a poly that's no stiffer but holds up longer...

 

[aaron_h27]

Compared to full gut, gut/poly feels like cheating. You really get everything with this set-up, and it lasts a long time. When full gut loses tension you get higher launch angle but no extra spin, with gut/poly the launch gets a bit higher but it's still controllable due to spin and then after a while it stays there until it breaks. So for me gut/poly has equal if not better longevity than full gut. It took an adjustment period coming from full gut, but i don't think i'd ever go back to full gut, im saving money and enjoying my tennis much more.

As far as Vs Touch or Luxilon Gut, I am prefering VS Touch in a hybrid, it has better feel to me and is 20% cheaper. I can string up a frame for $18 and play with it for 3-4 weeks.

Luxilon gut is lowered powered and i preferred that in a full bed but over time i feel like it becomes trampoliny, im still testing the two out side by side but i always find myself reaching for the VS Touch racket. Also oiling the strings help, I oil my strings every 2-3 sessions and notice a difference versus not doing it. Not a ton of oil just a small amount on the sweetspot.

 

[tomato123]

Question - what effects would a higher gauge poly cross have on the string bed performance? For example, 17g gut mains and 16g poly crosses?

 

[HolyMountain]

Have been running Lux Gut/4G at 56/54lbs.....kinda stiff as can be right now after about a month. Wear is minimal, which is great. I am starting to have more trouble with my spin. I am thinking of lowering the tensions significantly as I am in the new Pure Strike 18x20 - thinking 52/50lbs?

 

[Rally]

Compared to full gut, gut/poly feels like cheating. You really get everything with this set-up, and it lasts a long time. When full gut loses tension you get higher launch angle but no extra spin, with gut/poly the launch gets a bit higher but it's still controllable due to spin and then after a while it stays there until it breaks. So for me gut/poly has equal if not better longevity than full gut. It took an adjustment period coming from full gut, but i don't think i'd ever go back to full gut, im saving money and enjoying my tennis much more.

As far as Vs Touch or Luxilon Gut, I am prefering VS Touch in a hybrid, it has better feel to me and is 20% cheaper. I can string up a frame for $18 and play with it for 3-4 weeks.

Luxilon gut is lowered powered and i preferred that in a full bed but over time i feel like it becomes trampoliny, im still testing the two out side by side but i always find myself reaching for the VS Touch racket. Also oiling the strings help, I oil my strings every 2-3 sessions and notice a difference versus not doing it. Not a ton of oil just a small amount on the sweetspot.

Do you mean Tonic? VS Touch is $43, almost the same price as Luxilon Natural Gut.

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[One Handed Dynasty]

Have been running Lux Gut/4G at 56/54lbs.....kinda stiff as can be right now after about a month. Wear is minimal, which is great. I am starting to have more trouble with my spin. I am thinking of lowering the tensions significantly as I am in the new Pure Strike 18x20 - thinking 52/50lbs?

4G is a stiffness monster, I’d go as low as you can. 52x50 sounds high for an 18x20. The poly is definitely dead, so if you’re just starting to have trouble controlling the ball you should be fine going with 50/47 or even 48/45. You might be surprised at how well it plays at lower tensions.


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[Nate7-5]

What is the coldest temperature you guys are comfortable using your natural gut? I've been on the conservative side, only hitting in temperatures warmer than 52 Fahrenheit.

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Going to play in 53 degrees on Sunday. I played in low 40s a month ago. Pretty soon it'll be impossible to play outside for 3 months so I'll play in anything.

 

[Say Chi Sin Lo]

Try not to hit when it gets down in the 40’s. Doesn’t have much to do with the strings it’s just too easy to get hurt in those temps.

Thanksgiving eve was 45 for me and it was fine.

 

[aaron_h27]

I'm really liking Pro Red Code Wax 1.25 with Vs Touch in my DR 98 (64 gut mains / 62 poly crosses). This is like the 3rd poly cross I've tried and as much as i would like to keep experimenting, this combo gives me everything I need and is playable until breakage. I only wish it was a tad bit less stiff off the stringer, but after a solid hour of hitting it feels fine until breakage. I may need to get another reel.

Similar strings are Poly Tour Fire, 4g Soft & Max Power. Will try those when i cannot find Red Code Wax anymore although those options are significantly more expensive ;(

 

[E46luver]

what tension do you string gut/poly at

 

[aaron_h27]

Finally got around to trying tonic ball feel in a hybrid & noticed a bit less control than VS Touch. Still pretty close but as a high level player I did notice a little loss of control. Will still be using it until it breaks though. Gonna just get VS Touch from now on for consistency.

 

[BretH]

Not sure what lottery I won but here are my Klip Legend 16 mains and Prop Pro Eruption crosses after over a month of hard hitting (switching between 2 racquets but still well over 10 hitting sessions):

https://imgur.com/bhOuG74

 

[blai212]

I'm really liking Pro Red Code Wax 1.25 with Vs Touch in my DR 98 (64 gut mains / 62 poly crosses). This is like the 3rd poly cross I've tried and as much as i would like to keep experimenting, this combo gives me everything I need and is playable until breakage. I only wish it was a tad bit less stiff off the stringer, but after a solid hour of hitting it feels fine until breakage. I may need to get another reel.

Similar strings are Poly Tour Fire, 4g Soft & Max Power. Will try those when i cannot find Red Code Wax anymore although those options are significantly more expensive ;(

you should try volkl cyclone tour 16g mains with red code wax hybrid. Feels better/softer than gut poly for me. String the VCT 10% lower and it feels fantastic


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[The Big Kahuna]

I'm really liking Pro Red Code Wax 1.25 with Vs Touch in my DR 98 (64 gut mains / 62 poly crosses). This is like the 3rd poly cross I've tried and as much as i would like to keep experimenting, this combo gives me everything I need and is playable until breakage. I only wish it was a tad bit less stiff off the stringer, but after a solid hour of hitting it feels fine until breakage. I may need to get another reel.

Similar strings are Poly Tour Fire, 4g Soft & Max Power. Will try those when i cannot find Red Code Wax anymore although those options are significantly more expensive ;(

What’s the deal with the REDCODE WAX? Why is it getting to be so hard to find?


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[PrinceYonex]

Question for the group here. I have two identical racquets, one with Wilson Gut main (16g) and MSV Co-Focus cross (1.18), the other with Babolat Gut main (16g) and YPTP cross (1.20). Both are strung at the same tension -- 56/53. The Babolat combo feels much softer. Is it likely due to the differences in the gut or the differences in crosses?

 

[2nd Serve Ace]

Question for the group here. I have two identical racquets, one with Wilson Gut main (16g) and MSV Co-Focus cross (1.18), the other with Babolat Gut main (16g) and YPTP cross (1.20). Both are strung at the same tension -- 56/53. The Babolat combo feels much softer. Is it likely due to the differences in the gut or the differences in crosses?

Gut for sure. Nothing tops VS for soft feel.

 

[skeeter]

Been primarily a 16x19 pattern user, but trying out an 18x20 racquet. In my 16 pattern racquets, been stringing the gut mains with 16g and the poly crosses with 17g strings. With the 18x20, and given the general wisdom of keeping strings thinner in tighter patterns, what gauges are most folks using in these patterns with gut/poly hybrids? 17g for both mains and crosses? 17m, 18c? Thanks.

 

[The Big Kahuna]

Question for the group here. I have two identical racquets, one with Wilson Gut main (16g) and MSV Co-Focus cross (1.18), the other with Babolat Gut main (16g) and YPTP cross (1.20). Both are strung at the same tension -- 56/53. The Babolat combo feels much softer. Is it likely due to the differences in the gut or the differences in crosses?

I would say 80% of the feel of the string bed is based on the feel from the MAINS.


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[The Big Kahuna]

Been primarily a 16x19 pattern user, but trying out an 18x20 racquet. In my 16 pattern racquets, been stringing the gut mains with 16g and the poly crosses with 17g strings. With the 18x20, and given the general wisdom of keeping strings thinner in tighter patterns, what gauges are most folks using in these patterns with gut/poly hybrids? 17g for both mains and crosses? 17m, 18c? Thanks.

Thinner strings strung at slightly lower tension for denser string patterns.


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[speedysteve]

Gut for sure. Nothing tops VS for soft feel.

Had Bab VS had a make over or something?
A few years ago after BT11 disappeared and BT7 took over, everybody found the latter more harsh and stiffer..

I certainly did not find VS topping the softness charts compared to Pacific or even Klip Legend..

 

[2nd Serve Ace]

Had Bab VS had a make over or something?
A few years ago after BT11 disappeared and BT7 took over, everybody found the latter more harsh and stiffer..

I certainly did not find VS topping the softness charts compared to Pacific or even Klip Legend..

Really? Legend coated and uncoated play significantly firmer to me than BT7 vs.